Wrong green

[bergsey]

Embarrassed to say that I learnt something new from the golf show.

I was always of the belief that if you land on the wrong green (common at one of the holes at my club) that you had to take full relief. Apparently it is only 1 club length for the ball and not for your stance.

So basically you would be standing on the green and ripping it to shreds with your feet when playing the next shot... Couldn't imagine the flack one would cop from other golfers for this... Stupid rule?

[Captain Nemo]

Really?
Pretty sure at our club we can take full relief and drop somewhere off the green so the choppers dont do that...?

[Monsta]

Really?
Pretty sure at our club we can take full relief and drop somewhere off the green so the choppers dont do that...?

Your breaking the rules T


If a player’s ball lies on a wrong putting green, he must not play the ballas it lies. He must take relief, without penalty, as follows:The player must lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of andnot nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief.The nearest point ofrelief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When droppingthe ball within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ballmust first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interferenceby the wrong putting green and is not in a hazard and not on a puttinggreen.The ball may be cleaned when lifted under this Rule.

[haysey]

Interesting. Just another rule Bob breaks on a regular basis then.

[bdoug10]

Doesn't NPR include stance

[Monsta]

Doesn't NPR include stance

Not with this rule

[solarman]

Interesting. Just another rule Bob breaks on a regular basis then.

Smart arse. I always drop to the side of the green where my feet don't interfere. You know that, you see me do it every round at the 7th. :)
If not I kick it off there whilst pointing at something and saying of "oohh look over there"

[Captain Nemo]

Your breaking the rules T


If a player’s ball lies on a

wrong putting green, he must not play the ballas it lies. He must take relief, without penalty, as follows:The player must lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of andnot nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief.The nearest point ofrelief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When droppingthe ball within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ballmust first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interferenceby the wrong putting green and is not in a hazard and not on a putting
green.The ball may be cleaned when lifted under this Rule.


A. ive never done it
&
B. Im not a Choppa....;)

[Monsta]

Sorry T, should have said your club is not following the rules :mrgreen:

I only know the rule because it happened to me once playing in Orange and the Rule Nazi that I was playing with waited until I dropped before telling me. Fair enough I should have known the rule, but it is an obscure one and you would think that by dropping off the green (without penalty) to protect the playing surface would encompass your stance as well

Funny game we all play isnt it????

[sms316]

Try to drop the ball an inch from the edge and then take a big divot. Greenkeepers love that.

[spanner039]

Didnt Mark Calcavecchia hit a lob wedge on one of the double greens at St Andrews during an open? took a huge chunk as well if i remember rightly.

He would have technically been on the right green just the wrong hole.

[Captain Nemo]

Your breaking the rules T


If a player’s ball lies on a wrong putting green, he must not play the ballas it lies. He must take relief, without penalty, as follows:The player must lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of andnot nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief.The nearest point ofrelief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When droppingthe ball within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ballmust first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interferenceby the wrong putting green and is not in a hazard and not on a puttinggreen.The ball may be cleaned when lifted under this Rule.


I'm I missing something, doesn't it say above, that you can't drop it on the putting green?

[rubin]

Embarrassed to say that I learnt something new from the golf show.

I was always of the belief that if you land on the wrong green (common at one of the holes at my club) that you had to take full relief. Apparently it is only 1 club length for the ball and not for your stance.

So basically you would be standing on the green and ripping it to shreds with your feet when playing the next shot... Couldn't imagine the flack one would cop from other golfers for this... Stupid rule?


I'm I missing something, doesn't it say above, that you can't drop it on the putting green?

Relief includes stance in its definition.

Something along the lines of stance, swing and ball are included.

I think you got a dud ruling bergsey

[Hatchman]

Relief includes stance in its definition.

Something along the lines of stance, swing and ball are included.

I think you got a dud ruling bergsey

I'm with you and Titleist on this one Rubin.
Relief encompasses stance not just ball position. You then have one club length not nearer the hole from the nearest point of relief.

[Steve57]

I'm with you and Titleist on this one Rubin.
Relief encompasses stance not just ball position. You then have one club length not nearer the hole from the nearest point of relief.

+1

[Captain Nemo]

I'm positive it's a "club rule" and it's on the notice board, not 100% but I'm sure I've seen it somewhere and seen it en a few times.
Happens regularly on or 3rd hole, sits along side our 2nd a par 5 in the drive landing zone....

[Dotty]

Relief includes stance in its definition.

Something along the lines of stance, swing and ball are included.

I think you got a dud ruling bergsey
Did you read the rule before commenting?

Check the 'Find a rule' on www.randa.org (http://www.randa.org) homepage.
Type in wrong green, and there is even the stance question in the FAQs for 'Wrong Putting Green'.

[Hatchman]

Didnt Mark Calcavecchia hit a lob wedge on one of the double greens at St Andrews during an open? took a huge chunk as well if i remember rightly.

He would have technically been on the right green just the wrong hole.

There is nothing in the rules of golf that demands you must use a putter when on the correct green. Any club may be used to play the shot.
It's just not the done thing to take a club other than a putter and take a divot when on the correct green. It's a part of un-written etiquette.
I've used a PW or SW a few times over the years when on shaped greens and can't use a putter to putt directly on the required line to get at the hole. I didn't take a divot either. On one occasion I would have had to putt through a bunker to be on the required line. It's quite amusingness hitting the green in regulation and having to chip and not technically putt next.

[3Puttpete]

a. Interference

Interference by a wrong putting green occurs when a ball is on the wrong putting green. Interference to a player’s stance or the area of his intended swing is not, of itself, interference under this Rule.

[Steve57]

I stand corrected.
http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-Education/Archive/2010/November/Wrong-Putting-Green.aspx

[IanO]

Relief encompasses stance not just ball position. You then have one club length not nearer the hole from the nearest point of relief.

This seems to be the correct interpretation

[Hatchman]

Sorry T, should have said your club is not following the rules :mrgreen:

I only know the rule because it happened to me once playing in Orange and the Rule Nazi that I was playing with waited until I dropped before telling me. Fair enough I should have known the rule, but it is an obscure one and you would think that by dropping off the green (without penalty) to protect the playing surface would encompass your stance as well

Funny game we all play isnt it????

I find this one interesting.
Did the rule Nazi let you play your shot before informing you it was from an illegal drop or try and ping you after you took the illegal drop.

If he informed you after the illegal drop and before you played the ball from said drop, you get to re drop correctly "No Penalty".
If you played it then he can ping you.
If he let you play before letting you know of the mistake than he's tool squeezer.
Letting someone know they've taken an illegal drop before they play the ball is not giving advice and a breach of that rule.

[rubin]

Did you read the rule before commenting?

Check the 'Find a rule' on www.randa.org (http://www.randa.org) homepage.
Type in wrong green, and there is even the stance question in the FAQs for 'Wrong Putting Green'.

in answer to your question - no I didn't.

[Monsta]

Relief includes stance in its definition.

Something along the lines of stance, swing and ball are included.

I think you got a dud ruling bergsey


This seems to be the correct interpretation

Not in this situation guys

Q. And how do I take relief? To take relief, the player must lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of, and not nearer the hole than, the nearest point of relief from the putting green. As stance and the area of intended swing are not included in interference under this Rule, the nearest point of relief is likely to be just off the wrong putting green. When the ball is dropped, it must strike a part of the course that is not on the putting green or in a hazard. It is worth noting that under this Rule, the ball may be cleaned when it is lifted. Q. But what happens if I drop the ball and find that I am still standing on the putting green. Have I taken full relief? Yes. Interference only exists on a wrong putting green for the lie of the ball. Therefore, a player can stand on the putting green to play the ball once relief has been taken.

[bergsey]

You only get relief from the lie of the ball, not your stance as per below (unless a local rule is in place). We also have aprons that are the same grass as the putting surface (kike fairways). Again you don't get relief from them unless a local rule is in place....


Rule 25-3: The Wrong Putting Green
Shona McRae, Manager – Rules of Golf, explains how to take relief from a Wrong Putting Green.
This time we examine what happens when your ball comes to rest on a wrong putting green.
The starting point is the Definition of “Wrong Putting Green”, which is a term defined in the Rules of Golf. A wrong putting green is any putting green other than that of the hole being played. So any other green on the course, including those used for practice, is a wrong putting green. Due to the care and maintenance involved in preparing putting greens, it is desirable to protect the surface at all times – nobody, least of all greenkeepers, wants to see players taking chunks out of putting greens. Consequently, wrong putting greens are dealt with as a separate entity under Rule 25-3 to prevent any unnecessary damage. Q. So when am I entitled to relief? A player has interference from a wrong putting green when his ball is touching or lying on the putting surface; only then is a player entitled to relief without penalty. Interference to a player’s stance or the area of the intended swing is not, of itself, interference under Rule 25-3. Q. And how do I take relief? To take relief, the player must lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of, and not nearer the hole than, the nearest point of relief from the putting green. As stance and the area of intended swing are not included in interference under this Rule, the nearest point of relief is likely to be just off the wrong putting green. When the ball is dropped, it must strike a part of the course that is not on the putting green or in a hazard. It is worth noting that under this Rule, the ball may be cleaned when it is lifted. Q. But what happens if I drop the ball and find that I am still standing on the putting green. Have I taken full relief?
Yes. Interference only exists on a wrong putting green for the lie of the ball. Therefore, a player can stand on the putting green to play the ball once relief has been taken.
Q. The aprons around the green are also well-maintained. Is there any relief from these? Generally, there is no relief from the apron. However, the Committee in charge of the competition may make a Local Rule requiring that a ball be dropped not only clear of the putting surface, but also clear of the apron. So for the purpose of applying Rule 25-3, under such a Local Rule, the wrong putting green can also include the apron surrounding the green. Q. And finally, double-greens. Does Rule 25-3 apply to a double-green? A double-green is one putting green that is shared by two holes: the second and 16th holes on the Old Course are a perfect example. If, while playing the 16th, a ball comes to rest on a part of the green close to the flagstick for the second hole, as this is one putting green, Rule 25-3 does not apply. The player must play the ball as it lies, even if it requires a putt of 50 yards or more!

[Monsta]

I find this one interesting.
Did the rule Nazi let you play your shot before informing you it was from an illegal drop or try and ping you after you took the illegal drop.

If he informed you after the illegal drop and before you played the ball from said drop, you get to re drop correctly "No Penalty".
If you played it then he can ping you.
If he let you play before letting you know of the mistake than he's tool squeezer.
Letting someone know they've taken an illegal drop before they play the ball is not giving advice and a breach of that rule.

Hatch,

The bastard watched me drop, check that it was no nearer the hole then play my shot before he explained the ruling to me....

Felt like punching his lights out...

[andigold]

This seems to be the correct interpretation

No it's incorrect in this case. Assuming there is no local rule making the apron part of the green then on a wrong green the NPR is an inch from the edge of the green as stance is not taken into account. Of course you have 1 club length from the NPR for the ball to strike the course and it may then roll up to 2 more club lengths (so long as it doesn't finish in a hazard, on the green or nearer the hole) I imagine it would be a very rare circumstance that would cause you to play your next shot with a foot on the green.

[bergsey]

I have seen guys a number of times at my club take their drop off the green more than a club length so that they get relief from apron as well. I'm sure their intention is care for the course but breaking the rules in the process...

[Captain Nemo]

So you are not dropping the ball on the putting green???

[Dotty]

in answer to your question - no I didn't.
I found it incredible also (that stance wasn't included also) and needed to do a confirmation read.

It's a pity that these inconsistencies can't be addressed, rather than the anchoring brigade monopolising both rules organisations' legal resources for their own self serving.

[rubin]

I found it incredible also (that stance wasn't included also) and needed to do a confirmation read.

It's a pity that these inconsistencies can't be addressed, rather than the anchoring brigade monopolising both rules organisations' legal resources for their own self serving.

if you read the ruling as it is written (not including the application of the ruling), it doesnt really mention how relief is for the ball only. In almost every other aspect relief includes stance as well......

but this isn't the first time there is inconsistencies in the rules.....

[Monsta]

I found it incredible also (that stance wasn't included also) and needed to do a confirmation read.

It's a pity that these inconsistencies can't be addressed, rather than the anchoring brigade monopolising both rules organisations' legal resources for their own self serving.

I agree with you there Dotty, surely caring for the course and its maintainance is more important that "anchoring"

[CobraSS]

................................................

[Lagerlover]

I only know the rule because it happened to me once playing in Orange


Monsta, this is a rule that was brought in for Ricky.... Puma wanker!

[Lagerlover]

................................................

+1

[Monsta]

Monsta, this is a rule that was brought in for Ricky.... Puma wanker!

Orange the place, not Spuds favourite colour......