Want to get ripped and build muscle thats good real good...

[Zeusgolf]

So I was approached by a fellow WAnker and asked about my training and diet regime....this is partly what I gave him. I hope it may help others who want burn fat and build muscle.

Ok lets start of by saying this guide is going to go completely against the main stream grain you see in magazines. The magazines are there to make money, they need to be re-inventing the wheel, promoting supplements ect to get you to buy the damn magazine…their advice perpetuates into gyms resulting in the birth of ‘broscience’.

Broscience for gyms is outlined by some common misinformation as follows;

You need to eat 6 small meals a day to keep your metabolism elevated, keep you sugar levels at baseline, reduce insulin, stop burning muscle and burn fat…This is bullshit !!!!!!!!!
You need to spend hours in the gym doing all sorts of weight training exercises to build muscle…This is bullshit !!!!!!!!
You need to do cardio to burn fat…This is bullshit !!!
I was one of these guys….and yes I built muscle and I was pretty fit….but I wasn’t as shredded as I am now (yes I have a little way to go to be down to low single percent body fat stores but shit I almost died last year in a motorcycle accident). I’m at my strongest I have ever been even pre accident and I train and eat like this almost everyday. I now weigh 78kg and like i said i'm at my strongest i have ever been...even with my injuries.

Now I followed various fasting nutrition guides loosely for a few years and went from about 90kg to a stable 82kg and gained plenty of strength….however I wanted more, I wanted single figure body fat percentages and maintain that strength so I started researching and tweaking my nutrition and gym….this is what I have come up with and it WILL work for you.

The big thing is I DON'T DO CARDIO to burn fat

[Zeusgolf]

Nutrition – Intermittent Fasting

This is the basic setup in a nut shell
1. Choose an 8 hour ‘feeding window’ the feast.
2. The other 16 hours you will consume NO calories. (A splash of milk in the coffee/s is fine.) Water, coffee, sugar free drinks are fine also.
3. Because of rule 2, it’s better for most people to skip breakfast and have a feeding window something like 1-9pm so as not to destroy their social life. Think about when you usually eat with your family or friends when deciding.
4. If you can keep to this time 90% of the time, it doesn’t matter if some days the timing is off.
5. Though meal frequency doesn’t matter, eat 2 meals for simplicity, at 1pm and 8:30pm. (Three meals is fine if you prefer.)
6. Weight train 3 days a week. Rest 4 days a week.
7. Keep protein high on both days.
8. Eat high carb foods on a training-day./ Eat low carb foods on a rest-day.
9. Eat lean-cuts of meat/fish on a training-day./ Eat fattier-cuts of meat/fish on a rest-day.

Here is what I do its slighty modified and I found it works way way way better after my experimentation with different fasting programs.

For me this is my feeding fasting times;

16hr fast starting at 8pm
8hr Feeding window starting at 12pm

12pm Protein drink
4pm Protein drink
6pm Feast this is where I eat the bulk of my calories in about two sittings
8pm Fast

There are plenty of other options but the essential thing is;

16hr fast
8hr feast
High carb low fat on training days - caloric surplus
Low carb medium fat on rest days - caloric deficit

[MegaWatty]

Pics?

[Zeusgolf]

So to work your macros and caloric deficit/surplus, you need to work out your BMR;

Women: BMR = 655+ ( 9.6 x weight in kilos )+( 1.8 x height in cm ) – ( 4.7 x age in years )
Men: BMR = 66+ ( 13.7 x weight in kilos ) + ( 5 x height in cm ) – ( 6.8 x age in years )

This will give us our resting caloric energy expenditure if you did nothing during the day.

For a cut we are looking at 300-400 under BMR on rest days and 200-300 over on training days.
Body recomp (slow cut) 100-200 under BMR on rest days and 100-200 over on training days.
Bulk 200-300 under BMR on rest days and 500 over on training days.

As you can see rest days you are burning fat and training day you are supplying energy to build muscle

Nutrient Partitioning this is the little hormone secrete which tricks your body into thinking you are not in a famine.

As mentioned before you eat high carb/low fate on training days, low carb/medium fat on rest days and high protein on both days, but how much ?

2.2 grams protein per kg of body weight on both days.
30 grams fat on training day
60 grams of fat on rest day

Carbs make the rest of your calories....1gram of carbs = 4 calories so you can work it out.

Coming next when i'm not so tired.

TRAINING

Any questions ?

[Zeusgolf]

Pics?

Maybe i have to dig up a before.

[MegaWatty]

Which Wanker asked? This will be a good experiment to watch their progress.

[Zeusgolf]

Which Wanker asked? This will be a good experiment to watch their progress.

If he wants to say its up to him....my consults are private.

If you want photos of other ppls result http://rippedbody.jp/english/results-english/ this is where i got most of my information as it was easiest to understand however he got most of his stuff from Martin BERKHAM of the Leangains Site

This diet was no invented by me but i have tweaked it to suit me.....as to what i have found works best for me....there ar emany other ways following the basic guidelines

[MegaWatty]

No offence but there are before and after pics of every diet ever invented.

[Zeusgolf]

No offence but there are before and after pics of every diet ever invented.

No offence taken....a diet is a diet all diets work....I just find this the easiest.

Anyway i'm not here to prove it works or not....i know it does.....

As a fellow leangainer has said in his vids.....this is just advice you do whatever the f$%k you want to do !!!!

[Zeusgolf]

No offence but there are before and after pics of every diet ever invented.

So why ask for pics you homo ?

[MegaWatty]

Fair call.

My 15kgs came off by eating, walking and a shitload of core exercises. No diet, just a lifestyle change.

Understanding nutrition is the start for anyone losing weight. So much marketing is based around faking that things are low fat or low sugar. People need to learn how to read nutrition labels first.

As you basically said though, each to their own.

[Zeusgolf]

Fair call.

My 15kgs came off by eating, walking and a shitload of core exercises. No diet, just a lifestyle change.

Understanding nutrition is the start for anyone losing weight. So much marketing is based around faking that things are low fat or low sugar. People need to learn how to read nutrition labels first.

As you basically said though, each to their own.

What you did is exactly what im preaching

I'm probably stupid calling this a diet because it is a lifestyle change.......this diet is sustainable forever (once you drop the fat and become leaner it can be done much looser because you are not insulin resistant and you leptin levels are much more stable)....I have been fasting very loosely for the last 3 years with a 6 month break after my prang, then in the last 2 months I have worked on my macros properly and I take a pic tomorrow which doesn't look to ghey. You can make your mind up. Like i said though i still have a way to go to be med to low single figure body fat percentage and yes i am carrying some stubborn stomach fat, but i can see my abs, I have veins popping from my biceps and my strength has gone through the roof...thats is the most important to me when i have been lifting for so long the gains come very slow....well not now. Anyway I got a few good comments from the crowd at champs hence being asked how i did it.

All this is free and available in pub med its backed up by science no marketing as no one is making money from this stuff..

[MegaWatty]

So why ask for pics you homo ? Touchy. It's a standard Ozgolf line. I'm sure most around here would have got it. No homo. There's another. ;)

[Zeusgolf]

Touchy. It's a standard Ozgolf line. I'm sure most around here would have got it. No homo. There's another. ;)

M'kay

[Lobsta]

All this is free and available in pub med its backed up by science no marketing as no one is making money from this stuff..

I'm not having a go here, but do you have a link or a reference for its existence on PubMed or other journals? Is there any evidence comparing this diet method to other more mainstream ones like VLCDs or HPLC-low GI (e.g. CSIRO diet)? I ask out of actual scientific curiosity. I work with a nutritionist student and they are taught that the two I mentioned are the best weight loss methods.

[Captain Nemo]

:smt017

[Shadesy]

I kinda eat this way anyway, apart from the coffee in the morning. Always have. Skip breakfast, first meal is lunch after 12 and tea at around 6.30-7.

Don't do the gym bit but.

[Moe Norman]

I couldn't possibly entertain a lifestyle change that involves skipping breakfast, I ****ing love breakfast!

[BrisVegas]

"12pm Protein drink
4pm Protein drink
6pm Feast this is where I eat the bulk of my calories in about two sittings
8pm Fast"

So, you essentially don't EAT anything from 8pm til 22 hours later at 6pm the next day?!?!? :shock:

[idgolfguy]

Where does the fried kway teow and laksa or even BBQ ribs fit in all this?

[hocko]

Which Wanker asked? This will be a good experiment to watch their progress.

It clearly wasn't me! ;)

[Pieface]

Has to be Nuffie. Only he could ask another man about his "ripped" body and not feel awkward.

[Zeusgolf]

I'm not having a go here, but do you have a link or a reference for its existence on PubMed or other journals? Is there any evidence comparing this diet method to other more mainstream ones like VLCDs or HPLC-low GI (e.g. CSIRO diet)? I ask out of actual scientific curiosity. I work with a nutritionist student and they are taught that the two I mentioned are the best weight loss methods.

Sure let will post the links tonight.....the publications specifically refer to fasting and the metabolism.

[Zeusgolf]

"12pm Protein drink
4pm Protein drink
6pm Feast this is where I eat the bulk of my calories in about two sittings
8pm Fast"

So, you essentially don't EAT anything from 8pm til 22 hours later at 6pm the next day?!?!? :shock:

My protein drink breaks the fast (there is calories in there)......but like I said there are plenty of different ways this is what i like.

Some guys have three meals like this;

12:00pm 25% total cals - pre work out (this could be a traditional breakfast)
4:00pm gym
6:00pm 60% total cals - post work out
8:00pm 15% total cals

I just find it easier to eat two protein drinks and then eat all my cals in one big meal.....a very large dinner and desert.

If it fits in your macros and you eat most of your calories post workout it doesnt matter what time the eating window is or how many times you eat in the window.

[Zeusgolf]

Where does the fried kway teow and laksa or even BBQ ribs fit in all this?

Kway Teow = Carbs from noodles = training day
Laksa = Carbs from noodles = training day
BBQ ribs = fat cut of meat = rest day

[razaar]

Zeus
Do you have any qualifications in the fitness industry, human movements or diet/health?

[timah!]

Sorry, but this sounds like the epitome of bro science...

[idgolfguy]

Works for Zeus. Besides the much younger Mrs, he is looking the best I've seen in the last 10 years.

[Zeusgolf]

Zeus
Do you have any qualifications in the fitness industry, human movements or diet/health?

Yes and no....in my job yes......but its not recognised outside where I work.

However i'm really just regurgitating diet and training info I have researched and others who have qaulifications.

[Zeusgolf]

Sorry, but this sounds like the epitome of bro science...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting

Popular approaches to intermittent fasting http://www.leangains.com/2008/06/brief-primer-on-popular-approaches-to.html

Metabolic stuff
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2405717
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3661473
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10837292

Fasted training and post workout calories
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00421-009-1289-x explained here http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fasted-training-boosts-muscle-growth.html

Leptin levels and fat loss
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15946414
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17201801
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15573845

High Protein needed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17095931?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15466943?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027

Meal frequency - http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Meal%20Frequency some references to the studies used to compile this article
http://www.e-spenjournal.org/article/S1751-4991(10)00054-5/abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20339363

explanation and further studies here - http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

http://www.leangains.com/2011/03/intermittent-fasting-for-weight-loss.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21410865?dopt=Abstract

Gehlin – the hunger hormone
http://phys.org/news170688849.html

http://www.pnas.org/content/100/10/6216.full

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/6/1921.full


Lots of bro science there ;-)

[Iain]

Can you give an example of your meals? I'm struggling to figure out how to eat enough to get your macros/kcals in in just two meals. What's your maintenance calories?

[Zeusgolf]

Can you give an example of your meals? I'm struggling to figure out how to eat enough to get your macros/kcals in in just two meals. What's your maintenance calories?

Sure

I'm 178cm 36yr and weight about 77-78kg depending on hydration

BMR is 1800 Cals this may go down if I burn more fat.

I record all my food in MyFitnessPal app so i know what i ate the macros and total calories....once i have got down to my goal body fat % i'll probably stop recording but still follow the guideline.....this is what is reccommended from the guidelines I have read.

I have rounded the numbers out slightly

I will use P(protein)C(carbs) F(fat)

Yesturday was rest day so 1300-1500cals is target for me as im still doing a cut.

2x protein drinks = P48 C10 F4
FEAST
2x fried Eggs= P10 C1 F10
3 x lean bacon rashers = P21 C3 F2
400g BBQ ribs pork = P55 C0 F30
1/2 Cup roughly sweet potatoe chips baked = P1 C11 F2
DESERT
200ml co**** milk mixed with 1 scoop protein powder blended into mousse = P40 C3 F15

Totals
P175 - a little bit under
C28 - not bad also a little under but id rather be here than over
F59 - about right

Total Cals 1334

I had a little more room for carbs but i didnt count BBQ sauce or tomato sauce so I'm pretty happy that would have boosted that up.

I'll post up training days cals next as i think thats more what you are after given im gonig to be eating about 700 cals more.

[Zeusgolf]

Training Day example

2000 Cals

2x protein drinks = P48 C10 F4

FEAST
1700hrs broke it a little earlier it doesnt mater what time as long as its in the 8hr window.
V8 Strawberry Smoothy 300ml (drunk with meal) P1 C36 F1
Beef Nachos which I will break down
200g Lean Beef P42 C2 F10
Corn Chips light P5 C31 F11
Cheese Low Fat P8 C2 F5

1930hrs
Pizza :-)
2 x Chicken Pizza pitas from homemade(weight training magazine) reciepy P99 C90 F20
2 cups Rice Bubbles & Skim Milk P5 C60 F1
1 cup yogurt low fat P8 C9 F1

Totals

P165 - a little bit down
C230 - pretty good
F49 - a little bit high

Total Cals = 2021 cals

A bit too much fat and not enough protein but ill live with that.

[Zeusgolf]

Can you give an example of your meals? I'm struggling to figure out how to eat enough to get your macros/kcals in in just two meals. What's your maintenance calories?

I like to eat pretty big at night....if you can't manage to get enough cals a solution is to have three meals on work out days and two on rest days in that 8hr feeding window.

12pm 25%
4pm 25%
Train
7pm 50%

or

12pm 25%
Train
5pm 50%
7pm 25%

[Zeusgolf]

Oh and i fogot a do eat veggies and fresh salad but i dont record these items becuase they carry a pretty low calorie number....

[Iain]

Thanks Zeus. I've emailed Andy from rippedbody.jp. Something to consider.

[Peter]

What's the benefit of this over a diet that spreads the same food intake across the entire day?

[Zeusgolf]

What's the benefit of this over a diet that spreads the same food intake across the entire day?

No my words but from the posted site
Reduced training volume allows for recovery and growth. - I havnt gone into training but essential the reduced training stop the burning of muscle protein for energy......i'll post up training tonight.
Calorie cycling helps counteract the negative hormonal effects that happen when dieting.
Calorie Partitioning* is more efficient (*More of the calories eaten go into muscle tissue, less in the fat cells when overfeeding; more energy comes from fat stores relative to muscle burned when dieting. -a really good thing!)
This is due to…


Macro/Carb cycling
Putting the majority of the day’s calories PWO (leads to a compensatory response.)
Fasting in the mornings caused more fat burning throughout the day.
Late night eating (due to hormonal modulation).
My take on the subject
- Increase in metabolism during fast
- Fat consumption causes a boost in testosterone rest day
- High carb consumption causes an insulin response and given the calories are PWO your body will use them to replace depeted glycogen after training rather than store as fast.
- Conveiniance
- Roughly 1200 cal deficit over the week with no cardio to produce the deficit
- When you overeat you trick your leptin levels into thinking you are not in a calorie deficit

Your cortisone levels are at its highest in the morning...thats what wakes you up...high cort levels will lead to a likelihood of storing excess calories as fat.

http://rippedbody.jp/2012/03/02/why-is-leangains-so-effective/ (http://rippedbody.jp/2012/03/02/why-is-leangains-so-effective/)

http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/01/frequently-asked-questions/

You can eat during the day.....as usual but it should be in an 8hr window and you would have to do early morining training and consume PWO

[Zeusgolf]

Thanks Zeus. I've emailed Andy from rippedbody.jp. Something to consider.

I'm glad....he sounds like an awesome peronal trainer/nutrtionalist.

I have perosnally not used Andy becuase what he posts is so good...

I originally tried the warrior diet but it wasnt acurate enough for my OCD perosonality, then leangains has good lots of studies but no real info about macros i was kind of guessing the macros and i was wrong.....hence the stagnant weight at 82 (i was really doing a re-comp). I was also losing strength apart from the fact also i was almost killed in a motorcylce accident in July last year.

The last 8 weeks I have honed down on my macros and I can see abs, veins starting to form on my biceps and I have increased strength. I went from 6 reps of chin up with 15kg weight attached to 7 reps two days ago with 20kg attached over 4 weeks.

Strength to me means minimal muscle loss.

[Zeusgolf]

Training - the easy part

Firstly no cardio, none is needed because of the rest day deficit.

Why run for an hour when you can eat below maintenance ?

Now we got that out the way....

Fasted Training – YOU NEED TO TRAIN BEFORE THE FEAST………..EVEN PRIOR TO PROTEIN DRINKS IS OK ACTUALLY BETTER

If you are training fasted eg before you have had a protein drink you need to buy a pre workout supplement BCAA and have 10g prior to warming up. This is to conserve muscle being used as energy. Also a stim is ok like caffeine based pre workout if you want it.

THE BIG THREE AND REVERSE PYRAMID TRAINING

Compound movements are the key :-)

Essentially, warm-up, start with the heaviest set, and do two back-off sets. If you can beat your rep range with a any sets the following week you need to add more weight.

WARM UP = 4-5 mins light cardio prior to lifting. Treadmill, Rowing, Bike Ect

Then you do 3 warm up sets………. start with the bar, then add 50% weight that you’ll use in your first set, then 80%, never go more than 5 reps for warm up and rest 3 mins before you start your working heavy sets. Use your body as a guide to see if you have warmed up if you feel like you need more sets go for it..

Day 1

Squat
Warm-up sets
First Set 6-8reps
3mins rest
Set 2 (-10-15%) 8-10
2mins rest
Set 3 (-10-15%)10-12
3mins rest
Cool down 5-10mins light cardio, stretch.

Day 2
Dips – leaning forward to hit chest
Warm-up sets
First Set 6-8reps
3mins rest
Set 2 (-10-15%) 8-10
2mins rest
Set 3 (-10-15%)10-12
3mins rest
Cool down 5-10mins light cardio, stretch.

Day 3
Chin Up or Reverse Grip Pull Down
Warm-up sets
First Set 4-6reps
3mins rest
Set 2 (-10-15%) 6-8
2mins rest
Set 3 (-10-15%)8-10
3mins rest
Cool down 5-10mins light cardio, stretch.

Same every day, 3 days a week.

For chins and dip use a weight belt, vest or dumbbell when you can beat your reps.

Lets say eg for me the other day with Chin ups;
First Set: 7 reps with 20kg attached to me…next week ill put it up 1kg and go for at least 4 reps
Second Set: 7 reps with 15kg attached to me…I’ll keep this same next week and go for an extra rep
Last Set: 8 rep with 10kg attached to me….i’ll keep this the same next week and go for an extra rep

It is better to rest than train…

My suggestion is a little different from rippedbody. he uses Squat, Deadlift, Bench as his base....I have done this as well, however in my program chins, squat, dip I will change to another big three down the track.

You can do some isolation stuff but its not recommended on a cut or recomp.....maybe on a bulk.

Conserve your energy for the multi-joint movements.

[LarryLong]

I think I'd rather be skinny. :)

Serious question - how does this all stack up from a general health and wellbeing point of view? Any side-effects or things you have to look out for? I can understand the benefits if your goal is only to look muscular, but that doesn't seem like much of a goal to me.

[idgolfguy]

A fit copper...know that's a worry!

[Ashes]

Zeus, I assume coppers still don't get any allowances for gym memberships or anything like that?

[hocko]

You stay out of this ID!
:)
BTW, how much beer are we able to drink?

[idgolfguy]

You stay out of this ID!
:)
I just protect my body with a layer of heavy skin.

[tommyg]

This seems a little fishy to me... Theres a distinct lack of donuts in your diet there zeus. What if the other cops find out?

[Zeusgolf]

Zeus, I assume coppers still don't get any allowances for gym memberships or anything like that?

No only if you are in covert role......, HQ, Midland State Traffic Ops and most 24hr stations have a gym that you can technically access 24hrs a day.

Covert role cant go there....unless they want to blow their cover.

[Zeusgolf]

This seems a little fishy to me... Theres a distinct lack of donuts in your diet there zeus. What if the other cops find out?

At least you didn't ask me about the bloody TASER this time.

I'm a bit more upmarket I have pastries.

[Zeusgolf]

You stay out of this ID!
:)
BTW, how much beer are we able to drink?

No problems if it fits in your macros.....see dot point 2.

http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/01/frequently-asked-questions/#alcohol

http://rippedbody.jp/2011/08/18/how-to-drink-beer-and-not-screw-up-your-diet/ (http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/01/frequently-asked-questions/#alcohol)

I lost weight over champs and I had plenty of beer :-)

[hocko]

Weight loss is not my goal. ;)

[Zeusgolf]

Weight loss is not my goal. ;)

I can do a bulk plan for you

You and nuff have the perfect metabolism.

[Zeusgolf]

20705

[Rusty]

Zeus some good info in here. plenty of reading that's for sure.

[Lagerlover]

Mods,

Would've thought the Ask Popper thread should cover all this...

[popper81]

Mods,

Would've thought the Ask Popper thread should cover all this...

You're on fire.... lunch with Bambam today?

[Lagerlover]

You're on fire.... lunch with Bambam today?

No mate.
Sizzler have his photo behind the counter... he is surprisingly good on the tooth!

[Jono]

Zeus, I tried fasting 16 hours and having 3 meals within 8 hour window.

1st day was OK, 2nd day I was looking at my watch constantly until feeding time, 3rd day I was having hypoglycaemic symptoms (sweating, jittery and shaking).

I went back to my normal diet on 4th day - ie having a bowl of cereal with banana in the morning and having healthy lunch and dinner with moderate amount of complex carbs. Man, do I feel better and more energetic! 8)

I read the material you posted up. It's equivocal at best.

[Iain]

So you tried it for 3 days? You'd get over the hungry feeling, but it'd take more time.

[razaar]

To put on gains in bulk and size incorporate breathing squats into your workouts. 20 full squats to failure with pullovers across a bench with a light weight immediately following the squats. After a while they mess with your head because of stress, but if you can stick them out for 6 months, twice weekly - the results will surprise you.

[Zeusgolf]

Zeus, I tried fasting 16 hours and having 3 meals within 8 hour window.

1st day was OK, 2nd day I was looking at my watch constantly until feeding time, 3rd day I was having hypoglycaemic symptoms (sweating, jittery and shaking).

I went back to my normal diet on 4th day - ie having a bowl of cereal with banana in the morning and having healthy lunch and dinner with moderate amount of complex carbs. Man, do I feel better and more energetic! 8)

I read the material you posted up. It's equivocal at best.

I can understand the feelings you are having with the hunger pangs....its hard and after a week they virtually pass, sometimes i still look at the clock because im starving a few hours before my feeding window starts.

Anyway you can still eat breaky, lunch and dinner.....and get virtually the same effect as long as the is a 16 hour fast.

A few tips to stop hunger problems during fast ... http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/01/frequently-asked-questions/#hungerproblems
also
http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/01/frequently-asked-questions/#hungerfears ... as Iain has mentioned.

When i say virtually its not ideal eating breakfast after rising because you cortisol levels are elevated....thats what wakes you up and this produces a large insulin response which is not ideal. Maybe eat breaky 3 to 4 hours after rising ?

http://www.leangains.com/2012/06/why-does-breakfast-make-me-hungry.html about 3/4 down it discusses cortisol.

Anyway I glad you tried it at least you are open minded to give it crack.

I broke my leg and arm 16 months ago and had the metal work removed from my tibia and humerus 2 weeks ago so i'm out of the gym for 6 weeks(I start swimming tomorrow)....i'm eating just around maintenance with about P5025P25 % ratio......noticed in the last week i went down a pants size...not feeling to bad.....been noticing my abs starting to show a bit better (all my clothes dont fit) my sister said i look 5 years younger....i have taken photos of the last 4 weeks and ill continue, to put up once im back in the gym for a comparison.

[Zeusgolf]

To put on gains in bulk and size incorporate breathing squats into your workouts. 20 full squats to failure with pullovers across a bench with a light weight immediately following the squats. After a while they mess with your head because of stress, but if you can stick them out for 6 months, twice weekly - the results will surprise you.

I like pullovers and squats....any exercise that incorporates multi joint movements is perfect...you get better bang for your buck.

My primary moves are

Weighted Dip
Weighted Chip
Squat
Barbell overhead press

I train very second day (when im not injured) 3 warm up sets 3 working sets sometimes ill throw in 1 set of 12 for bicep curls, triceps press or lateral raise at the end of my primary sets for an extra pump....but no more than that.

[Zeusgolf]

Zeus some good info in here. plenty of reading that's for sure.

Cheers

PM me if you want anymore info or help....

[Jono]

I can understand the feelings you are having with the hunger pangs....its hard and after a week they virtually pass, sometimes i still look at the clock because im starving a few hours before my feeding window starts.

Anyway you can still eat breaky, lunch and dinner.....and get virtually the same effect as long as the is a 16 hour fast.

A few tips to stop hunger problems during fast ... http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/01/frequently-asked-questions/#hungerproblems
also
http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/01/frequently-asked-questions/#hungerfears ... as Iain has mentioned.

When i say virtually its not ideal eating breakfast after rising because you cortisol levels are elevated....thats what wakes you up and this produces a large insulin response which is not ideal. Maybe eat breaky 3 to 4 hours after rising ?

http://www.leangains.com/2012/06/why-does-breakfast-make-me-hungry.html about 3/4 down it discusses cortisol.

Anyway I glad you tried it at least you are open minded to give it crack.

I broke my leg and arm 16 months ago and had the metal work removed from my tibia and humerus 2 weeks ago so i'm out of the gym for 6 weeks(I start swimming tomorrow)....i'm eating just around maintenance with about P5025P25 % ratio......noticed in the last week i went down a pants size...not feeling to bad.....been noticing my abs starting to show a bit better (all my clothes dont fit) my sister said i look 5 years younger....i have taken photos of the last 4 weeks and ill continue, to put up once im back in the gym for a comparison.

Zeus, I'm open minded enough to listen and do background reading. I read the articles you posted plus did some medline search.

From what I've read, there's a lot of discrepencies there about the benefits of fasting for 16 plus hours.

I don't mind the hunger pangs. It's the hypo symptoms that worried me. I've got a job where I have to be mentally alert at all times. As long as I have breakfast by about 10am, I'm OK.

Oh, and one more point. I might be different to the average person in that I have to take cortisone tablets in the morning as I have hypopituitarism.

[razaar]

I like pullovers and squats....any exercise that incorporates multi joint movements is perfect...you get better bang for your buck.

My primary moves are

Weighted Dip
Weighted Chip
Squat
Barbell overhead press

I train very second day (when im not injured) 3 warm up sets 3 working sets sometimes ill throw in 1 set of 12 for bicep curls, triceps press or lateral raise at the end of my primary sets for an extra pump....but no more than that.
When I was doing regular breathing squats, I would lay awake the night before dreaming up ways to deal with the pain. Once they were over, I was the happiest guy in the gym. Grinding out the last 8 reps, with difficulty breathing between reps, is a mind game. The wait between reps could be 30+ seconds.

[Jono]

When I was doing regular breathing squats, I would lay awake the night before dreaming up ways to deal with the pain. Once they were over, I was the happiest guy in the gym. Grinding out the last 8 reps, with difficulty breathing between reps, is a mind game. The wait between reps could be 30+ seconds. So you take 30 seconds in the eccentric phase or the concentric phase?It's so slow that it's almost like isometric exercise, isn't it?I'm after functional power and strength. I do some isometric stuff with bands but I love my speed/power workouts. For example, I did 5 sets of prowler sprints this morning followed by speed squats and explosive reps on the power runner. Afterwards, my legs felt like I had just squated 300kg!

[razaar]

So you take 30 seconds in the eccentric phase or the concentric phase?It's so slow that it's almost like isometric exercise, isn't it?I'm after functional power and strength. I do some isometric stuff with bands but I love my speed/power workouts. For example, I did 5 sets of prowler sprints this morning followed by speed squats and explosive reps on the power runner. Afterwards, my legs felt like I had just squated 300kg!
No, the 30 secs is between squats recovering for the next rep. This is hard core stuff, not for slackers. The weight is across the upper back the whole time.

[Zeusgolf]

So you take 30 seconds in the eccentric phase or the concentric phase?It's so slow that it's almost like isometric exercise, isn't it?I'm after functional power and strength. I do some isometric stuff with bands but I love my speed/power workouts. For example, I did 5 sets of prowler sprints this morning followed by speed squats and explosive reps on the power runner. Afterwards, my legs felt like I had just squated 300kg!

You should try star complexes, actually when i get back im going to try this for a bit.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/6_weeks_to_superhero_how_i_build_muscle_and_strip_ off_fat_fast&cr=

pg 2 has the workout.

[TheNuclearOne]

No, the 30 secs is between squats recovering for the next rep. This is hard core stuff, not for slackers.

With that sort of gap the aim would be extremely strength orientated vs gaining muscle right?

[razaar]

With that sort of gap the aim would be extremely strength orientated vs gaining muscle right?
The whole body is under stress, the lungs are pressing hard against the rib cage and the weight is compounding the issue. This exercise is the foundation for building strength, which increases size. The body learns to get itself ready for the next torture session by getting stronger. Once it gets easier, the barbel weight is increased. Anybody serious about putting on size, this is the exercise to do it.

[TheNuclearOne]

Been there done all that. Squats are obviously THEE compound exercise to end all others. If you were having 30 seconds toward the end of the reps what break were you having between sets and what rep range was the norm? Maximum size (for many exercises) is commonly gained in the 8-12 rep range with short breaks between sets. Big strength builders are commonly 4-6 reps with a few minutes between sets. These will build size for sure (especially if the time under tension principal is followed) but are more strength focused.

[Jono]

You should try star complexes, actually when i get back im going to try this for a bit.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/6_weeks_to_superhero_how_i_build_muscle_and_strip_ off_fat_fast&cr=

pg 2 has the workout.

Looks interesting. seems quite high volume.

I've started doing the 5-3-1 combined with some strongman exercises and speed exercises. I've just started training again after a long break. looking to get my strength up at this stage.

[zacdullard]

To build muscle: a calorie surplus and progressive overload.
To lose fat: a calorie deficit.

It's as simple as that, doesn't matter if you have one meal or 10 meals.

[TheNuclearOne]

To build muscle: a calorie surplus and progressive overload.
To lose fat: a calorie deficit.

It's as simple as that, doesn't matter if you have one meal or 10 meals.

RULE #1: Eat at least 6 quality small meals per day. Eating more meals per day increases the body's metabolism, gives you a constant flow of energy and reduces the likelihood of your body storing your food as fat. You need to shift away from the "3 meals a day" mentality - those days are over. You should only feed your body with what it requires, not how much can fit in your stomach.

[zacdullard]

This has been proven to be false. Meal timing doesn't matter, it's all about total daily macronutrient intake.

[rubin]

This has been proven to be false. Meal timing doesn't matter, it's all about total daily macronutrient intake.

No, what ur saying meeds to be taken into accout with what tno/zeus are saying. One big meal, that satisfies ur intake level wont work.

[Iain]

No, what ur saying meeds to be taken into accout with what tno/zeus are saying. One big meal, that satisfies ur intake level wont work.Plenty of anecdotal evidence that it works for some people. It's called the warrior diet.

[Jono]

Plenty of anecdotal evidence that it works for some people. It's called the warrior diet.

Works for muscle gain? for fat loss? for both? What about for functional strength, power and performance?

FWIW, muscle gain/fat loss for me is not the most important. I want to gain power and strength. there's plenty of evidence with muslim athletes that they perform worse during ramadan. Some of the doctors that I work with go home early during ramadan because they can't work for too long.

[virge666]

When I was doing regular breathing squats, I would lay awake the night before dreaming up ways to deal with the pain. Once they were over, I was the happiest guy in the gym. Grinding out the last 8 reps, with difficulty breathing between reps, is a mind game. The wait between reps could be 30+ seconds.

I looked up these today and went to the gym and did it just for a laugh.

Holy shit snacks.

[Zeusgolf]

To build muscle: a calorie surplus and progressive overload.
To lose fat: a calorie deficit.

It's as simple as that, doesn't matter if you have one meal or 10 meals.

This

[Zeusgolf]

This has been proven to be false. Meal timing doesn't matter, it's all about total daily macronutrient intake.

This

[Zeusgolf]

No, what ur saying meeds to be taken into accout with what tno/zeus are saying. One big meal, that satisfies ur intake level wont work.

Rubs you can have one big meal as long as you get the calories in.....its going to be hard to do hence why i say at least two meals or ideally three for a beginner.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20847729
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16011467
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22719910

Sum up
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/three-meals-superior-for-appetite.html

Anyway the old 6 meal thing is out of the window...it doesn't increase your metabolism.....calories in Vs calories out is king, but the king can be tricked with nutrient partitioning.

[Zeusgolf]

Works for muscle gain? for fat loss? for both? What about for functional strength, power and performance?

FWIW, muscle gain/fat loss for me is not the most important. I want to gain power and strength. there's plenty of evidence with muslim athletes that they perform worse during ramadan. Some of the doctors that I work with go home early during ramadan because they can't work for too long.

Ramadan is way stricter though and there is no way the would count their calories to ensure training days they are in surplus and rest days deficit.....this to me is the biggest trick to my diet approach......i get the 'weekly' deficit during my little cut phase but i eat surplus on training days to give the muscles a feed with glycogen this is the 'nurtient partitioning approach'

Warrior diet uses a different approach, eat;

Protein with Carbs
Protein with fat
never eat carbs and fat together.

Really I don't think both muscle gain and fat loss can ultimately be achieved together. Maybe strength and fat loss. Depending on your fat levels I would be going for fat loss, thats if you do have some amount of muscle and strength....then with you are lean your body with have better insulin sensitivity thus when you do go into surplus for a bulk the calories you eat will be more likely be used to build muscle rather than go to your fat stores. You'll get stronger and bigger quicker without getting as fat.

[virge666]

Does anyone not care that I seriously cannot walk today.

I am more scared of stairs than is humanly possible.

So Q2... How do we stop DOMS ?

[PeteyD]

Soft.

[Lobsta]

Does anyone not care that I seriously cannot walk today.

I am more scared of stairs than is humanly possible.

So Q2... How do we stop DOMS ?

I find not being a bitch helps.

[Dotty]

Same as a hangover.

Prevention is better than cure.

[davepuppies]

For losing body fat, macro nutrient total is king...... To help expedite the process then key calories should be consumed after weights session, to spike insulin and increase protein uptake and glycogen replenishment.

When I was competing I would eat 6 meals per day, consisting of protein, and green veggies, then a meal straight after weights with about 100 grams simple carbs and branch chain amino acids. 30 mins later would be a meal of protein and complex carbs.

Following this protocol I would lose body fat and preserve muscle.

Water intake is critical, and using the right supplements at the right times.

At my peak I was 114 kilos at sub 6% body fat.

Diet is way more important than cardio, and weights is way more important than cardio for body composition changes.

I always did 40 mins cardio (low intensity) first thing in the morning on a empty stomach (minus BCAAs)

[zacdullard]

At my peak I was 114 kilos at sub 6% body fat.:shock:

[davepuppies]

Does anyone not care that I seriously cannot walk today.

I am more scared of stairs than is humanly possible.

So Q2... How do we stop DOMS ?

You learn to love it!

You know you have worked the muscle properly!

Get lots of protein in, some good quality carbs and stretch the muscle out

[razaar]

Does anyone not care that I seriously cannot walk today.

I am more scared of stairs than is humanly possible.

So Q2... How do we stop DOMS ?
Tomorrow will be worse. Rest and walking in a pool may help. It is the negative part of the squat that causes all the post exercise pain. That is why the pool walking helps because it is all positive work.

[Jono]

Does anyone not care that I seriously cannot walk today.

I am more scared of stairs than is humanly possible.

So Q2... How do we stop DOMS ?

How much did you squat?

[Zeusgolf]

Does anyone not care that I seriously cannot walk today.

I am more scared of stairs than is humanly possible.

So Q2... How do we stop DOMS ?

Maybe some light stretching and simulating the movement again.....might provide some temporary relief.

DOMS is good.....i feel robbed if i don't get some sort of DOMS after a serious session....to me it gives me an indication of how trained I am for that particular muscle group and a strong indication of how much I did in the gym. Too much DOMS on a well trained muscle group and I sense i may have done too much or gone to failure to many times in a session. Too little and I probably could have tried harder and lifted more weight.

Lots of DOMS on untrained muscles is usual.

[Zeusgolf]

For losing body fat, macro nutrient total is king...... To help expedite the process then key calories should be consumed after weights session, to spike insulin and increase protein uptake and glycogen replenishment.

When I was competing I would eat 6 meals per day, consisting of protein, and green veggies, then a meal straight after weights with about 100 grams simple carbs and branch chain amino acids. 30 mins later would be a meal of protein and complex carbs.

Following this protocol I would lose body fat and preserve muscle.

Water intake is critical, and using the right supplements at the right times.

At my peak I was 114 kilos at sub 6% body fat.

Diet is way more important than cardio, and weights is way more important than cardio for body composition changes.

I always did 40 mins cardio (low intensity) first thing in the morning on a empty stomach (minus BCAAs)

What he said......however the new data I have read indicates the amount of meals does not have as much importance as once placed by BB.

Getting the calories in after training is the key....

[virge666]

How much did you squat?

35kg on each side + whatever a bar weighs.

So about 200kgs. :)

Went for a run yesterday - bit better today, i feel i can face stairs.

[Jono]

35kg on each side + whatever a bar weighs.

So about 200kgs. :)

Went for a run yesterday - bit better today, i feel i can face stairs.

That's 90kg x 20 reps. Not bad for stick legs like yours ... ;)

What's your 1 rep max?

Ray, what percentage of 1 rep max do you use for the breathing squats? I might try it in the new year.

[Iain]

I googled an article and it said whatever you do for 10 reps.

[virge666]

That's 90kg x 20 reps. Not bad for stick legs like yours ... ;)

What's your 1 rep max?


7 years of Rugby and pack marching will keep it honest !

As for one rep max . . . no idea mate - always been too scared to try with my back.

Dont mind cranking up the leg press machine though - but the incline and lack of needing to balance the weights dont appeal to me.

(is an olympic bar really 20Kgs ?????)

[Iain]

(is an olympic bar really 20Kgs ?????)

Yep.

[Jono]

I googled an article and it said whatever you do for 10 reps.

Which is around 75% of 1 rep max lift. I max squat at present is around 150kg so I should lift 112.5kg...

I feel sick just thinking about it.

[Jono]

did 20 x 210kg tyre flips yesterday followed by 20 rep breathing squats with 100kg. Finished off with 2 sets of 10 glute ham raises.

My legs are totally fried today, front and back. Love it.

[Zeusgolf]

did 20 x 210kg tyre flips yesterday followed by 20 rep breathing squats with 100kg. Finished off with 2 sets of 10 glute ham raises.

My legs are totally fried today, front and back. Love it.

Now that is definitely sounding like cross fit....

I did a Cindy the other day
1 set =
5 Chin ups
10 push ups
15 squats

As many sets in 20 minutes

I banged out 19....my best has been 24....trying to get back some fitness after a layoff.

[2manybogeys]

I have just briefly flicked over some of this thread. Looks similiar to Mike Geary Truth About Abs which I have just looked into. Anyone had anything to do with Mike Geary?

[Zeusgolf]

I have just briefly flicked over some of this thread. Looks similiar to Mike Geary Truth About Abs which I have just looked into. Anyone had anything to do with Mike Geary?

Ill look him up tomorrow...what I sugguest isnt new just isnt mainstream yet.

[Jono]

Hey Zeus, how are you progressing with this?

[Captain Nemo]

Hows this all going, results?