Shaft Spinning??

[kiwitown]

There seems to be mixed opinions as to getting this done to your irons really works or not? is there anyone that can shed some light into this subject. Pros/cons i'm after some guidance...

Thanks

[Captain Nemo]

I do it regardless to all my shafts.
Even if i sell a shaft, ill do it for the buyer regardless....

[number9]

Yes, you sure do! (cheers mate) :D

[3oneday]

Seems a wank for mine, and posts 2 and 3 don't actually answer the question ;)

Would any amateur be really able to tell the difference ?

[kiwitown]

Seems a wank for mine, and posts 2 and 3 don't actually answer the question ;)

Would any amateur be really able to tell the difference ?


If It was that important, when they custom build your clubs why don't they do it then??? I know there is the time factor of finding the spine, do the major brands not believe in it.

[matty]

Would any amateur be really able to tell the difference?

No. And I doubt most pro's would be able to either.

[timinsa]

If you can do it then do...Flo over spine.

[number9]

http://thesandtrap.com/b/bag_drop/shaft_spining_splining_and_pureing_black_art_or_th e_ultimate_tweak

It obviously has some benefit.

[kiwitown]

If you can do it then do...Flo over spine.

Ok so if we Flo our clubs, which i understand is done with the heads on, who does it and how is it done?

[chappy1970]

Kiwi FLOing is done with no head on, just a tip weight representative of the generic weight of a driver head. Using the tip weight the NBP (Neutral bend point) is determined with repetitive back and forth motion, with the butt end secured in a clamp. The NBP is generally determined when the tip of the shaft can be pulled, released and move back and forth with no elliptical motion, rather just side to side.I have a laser built into tip which makes determining the above a little easier due to the visual aid.If you're in Melbourne I can help out Chappy.

[razaar]

Spinning a modern steel shaft could be compared to buying factory loads for a gun to loading your own. The load your owns should be more accurate. The question with golf clubs is, does your swing measure up to warrant such attention to detail?

[TourFit]

Exactly. If you're a high 'capper with 9 different driver swings in one day then it won't help.

[kiwitown]

Exactly. If you're a high 'capper with 9 different driver swings in one day then it won't help.

So for a 8 handicapped who plays once a week its probably not worth it then. Have any off you that have responded spinned or flo'ed your clubs and noticed. Any difference.

[kiwitown]

Thanks for the reply very helpful unfortunately I'm in Wollongong.

[RobNewy]

Kiwi FLOing is done with no head on, just a tip weight representative of the generic weight of a driver head. Using the tip weight the NBP (Neutral bend point) is determined with repetitive back and forth motion, with the butt end secured in a clamp. The NBP is generally determined when the tip of the shaft can be pulled, released and move back and forth with no elliptical motion, rather just side to side.I have a laser built into tip which makes determining the above a little easier due to the visual aid.If you're in Melbourne I can help out Chappy.

Chappy, so if the shaft is back and forth, were is the spine, and were do you align it?
I have no intent on doing the process myself, as I believe they were done by my club builder already, but Im just curious after reading the article posted from the sand trap.

Im also a bit confused as to the clock positions of alignment. Is 12 oclock 90* to the target line, or at the target line? I didnt ask him, as I hadnt really thought about it

[rowey]

There are some threads to look at on youtube, that actually use a lazer pointer to do this that may come in handy for you to look at.

[BayBum]

Chappy, so if the shaft is back and forth, were is the spine, and were do you align it?
I have no intent on doing the process myself, as I believe they were done by my club builder already, but Im just curious after reading the article posted from the sand trap.

Im also a bit confused as to the clock positions of alignment. Is 12 oclock 90* to the target line, or at the target line? I didnt ask him, as I hadnt really thought about it

I believe it is at the target line ?

[Mububban]

Exactly. If you're a high 'capper with 9 different driver swings in one day then it won't help.

Well that rules me out then :mrgreen:

I'm picky about spine for arrows but I'm far more accurate with a bow than I am with a golf club!

[TourFit]

Chappy, so if the shaft is back and forth, were is the spine, and were do you align it?
I have no intent on doing the process myself, as I believe they were done by my club builder already, but Im just curious after reading the article posted from the sand trap.

Im also a bit confused as to the clock positions of alignment. Is 12 oclock 90* to the target line, or at the target line? I didnt ask him, as I hadnt really thought about it

OK here goes (in a nutshell)...

The spine is the 'hard' part of the shaft and the NBP is the softest part. Both 'usually' align with an acceptable flo or POP, and as long as this happens then the rest is mostly about feel. The 12/6 O'Clock refers to looking at address (straight up down/vertical orientation). And the target is usually the 9/3 O'Clock direction.

In a lot of cases the spine will cpm firmer than the NBP (but not always, and not always the same difference either) and as a result, if aligned to the target, may give a firmer feel at impact. But because the NBP is 12/6 O'Clock the shaft droop coming into impact 'may' also be more pronounced. If this happens it may flatten the lie angle at impact (sometimes not always a bad thing!)

Conversely, aligning NBP to target will 'soften' the feel but reduce the shaft tip droop a little.

Most shafts are now painted AFTER spines or NBP's are pre-marked on the raw product. The base coat is applied and then the shaft logos are usually lined up with the designated mark. Most companies mark NBP, but others mark spines. So generally speaking, logo will be up or down in most cases.

At the end of the day either orientation could/will work...but how much is impossible to measure. It is TOTALLY dependent on the 'feel' of the user, and his ability to swing consistently.

[chappy1970]

What FIT said Rob, as a rule I install mine with the NBP at 12 o'clock (as you look at the club at address, with the target being at the 9 o'clock orientation)

Chappy

[Captain Nemo]

Nice bit of info here:
http://www.clubmaker-online.com/spines.html

[Captain Nemo]

I have this one, works a treat...
http://www.clubmakerschoice.com/page1.html

[PeteyD]

It is fun to do if you are mucking around building clubs. Doubt that paying someone to do it is worthwhile. I always put NBP to target.

[Stuartd147]

Kiwitown.....I am in Wollongong and have a spining toolset. I spine my clubs and for my mates. PM me if you like and come around and I can show you how it works....Stu

[TourFit]

What FIT said Rob, as a rule I install mine with the NBP at 12 o'clock (as you look at the club at address, with the target being at the 9 o'clock orientation)

Chappy

That's what the SST Pure method uses Chappy...stiffest/firmest feel orientation in the direction of the swing, but accentuating droop (like 8 beers)

Try it the other way. It's a smoother feel and more stable in the swing direction, as it is more difficult (requiring more force) to 'twist' or move the NBP out of alignment. Spines are unstable and require not much to get out of whack. Just a thought.

[Captain Nemo]

Ive tried it both ways on the same shaft and head for giggles.
Ive found the NBP facing the target (spine at the rear) to have the best results.

[Puji]

So manufacturers already do this to an extent?

I thought they didn't. Now I'm confused.

[TourFit]

Ive tried it both ways on the same shaft and head for giggles.
Ive found the NBP facing the target (spine at the rear) to have the best results.

Spine would be vertical Titleist!

NBP and spine are very nearly ALWAYS 90* to each other...so if NBP is target, then spine will be under the shaft vertically or on top of the shaft vertically.

[Captain Nemo]

Sorry, confused myself.
I align my spines 180* to the target ie at 3 o'clock on the shaft at address!

[TourFit]

And they flo as well?

[LeftyHoges]

I always align mine spine to target, so 3 o'clock position FOR ME. Don't have anything to find the NBP.

[TourFit]

So how do you find the spine? :?

[LeftyHoges]

So how do you find the spine? :?

With this... (http://www.ebay.com/itm/spine-finder-to-find-spine-on-golf-shafts-/330812427057?pt=Golf_Clubmaking_Products_US&hash=item4d05f50b31)

[TourFit]

?

[LeftyHoges]

?

Never seen one before 'Fit? if you like I can bring it over to champs for you to look at.

Basically you insert the butt of the shaft into the tube (it has rollers inside) and put the small roller on the tip. You bend the shaft and roll it round until you find the point where the shaft will roll over by itself. That is it's spine.

Alledgedly.... :?

[Captain Nemo]

Fit, a crude version of these:
http://www.clubmakerschoice.com/page1.html (http://www.clubmakerschoice.com/page1.html)

[PeteyD]

i think you are finding the nbp Lefty.

[LeftyHoges]

i think you are finding the nbp Lefty.

That's what I'm starting to wonder. But everything I've read and the (albeit small and brief) instructions definitely say "Spine".

As do all the eBay listings...
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/Golf-/1513/i.html?_nkw=spine+finder&_catref=1&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

[TourFit]

Sorry Lefty...I have one like the one in Titleists' post. I just didn't see that you had linked it.

They find both mate...when it gets that 'hard' spot that wants to flip over really easily in either direction as you turn the shaft, that is the spine. The stable, or flat feeling, spot that requires some turning to move it around is the NBP. I suspect that you are aligning NBP more than spine though.

[LeftyHoges]

Sorry Lefty...I have one like the one in Titleists' post. I just didn't see that you had linked it.

They find both mate...when it gets that 'hard' spot that wants to flip over really easily in either direction as you turn the shaft, that is the spine. The stable, or flat feeling, spot that requires some turning to move it around is the NBP. I suspect that you are aligning NBP more than spine though.

No, I mark it on that "hard spot" (I know what you mean by that).

Would I be better off finding and using the NBP?

[Ashes]

Reminds me of building fishing rods when I was a kid. Some rod blanks used to have a number of spines...

[RobNewy]

Cheers for the info gents.

May need to do some research as this looks like an interesting topic

[Captain Nemo]

I pull down on the bearing on the tip and mark a dot (call it whatever...)
I then pull up on the same bearing and feel it kick, that i would presume is the "strongest" part of the shaft and mark that "Spine"
Correct?
I then as a check i randomly move the shaft in the finder and pull down and feel the "snap" and see it come back to the "dot" ive put on....

[TourFit]

Pull down on the bearing and ROTATE the shaft inside it. As it spins, you will feel that 'hard' spot that turns off of that spot quite easily. Mark it with a line on the tip and S...

...the 'soft' spot, or harder to turn off that spot when rotated is the NBP. Mark that with an N. (I think that is the 'snap' as you are referring to it? It kinda just jumps into that spot?)

If possible cpm the two, and see if either orientation flo's.

Align in head according to flex difference (if any), feel preference (if any) and / or flo.

[chappy1970]

Will try that with the next FLO fit, thanks mate

[Captain Nemo]

Works for me.
As a check ive clamped the butt end in the vice and aligned the spine and "twanged" the shaft in the horizontal plane and they go back and forth in a pretty decent line (I presume this is a rough method of flowing)?
Id like to get one of those tips with laser on them and do it a bit more accurately, anyone know where to get them?

[TourFit]

You don't really need one mate.

You'll see very clearly if the 'twang' keeps in the same plane of oscillation (P.O.P). It is just a case of aligning up spine v NBP in your preferred orientation.

If it is a softer profile type shaft, and/or the cpm of the shaft is a little low, I put the spine to target (NBP in the vertical plane). If it is a stiffer tipped type shaft or profile or at the upper end of it's flex scale, then I'll put the NBP to target to get a softer impact feel.

Most other times, I'll do it one way or the other and see how it goes. If need be, I'll just switch it around.

[chappy1970]

Titleist I got my laser tip weight from Aussiecustomgolf, can't remember the exact price, but it wasn't to exy

[hardboiled]

Was under $70 shipped from memory


Titleist I got my laser tip weight from Aussiecustomgolf, can't remember the exact price, but it wasn't to exy

[Captain Nemo]

Thanks Fit, and Chappy, good info.:wink:

[David Lake]

Approximately 80% of the pros have the inherent flex plane of their shafts determined and aligned appropriately in relation to the club-face. Personally, I would not play a set of clubs where this procedure was not done. The reason that the big brand names do not perform this procedure (and even down-play it) is because it does not fit into their mass production model. When a golf equipment manufacturer has thousands of sets coming off of an assembly line in China every single day there is not enough time or skill to perform this additional process.

David Lake, President
1 Iron Golf, Inc.

[kiwitown]

Approximately 80% of the pros have the inherent flex plane of their shafts determined and aligned appropriately in relation to the club-face. Personally, I would not play a set of clubs where this procedure was not done. The reason that the big brand names do not perform this procedure (and even down-play it) is because it does not fit into their mass production model. When a golf equipment manufacturer has thousands of sets coming off of an assembly line in China every single day there is not enough time or skill to perform this additional process.

David Lake, President
1 Iron Golf, Inc.

Hi David,

And welcome, you could create a whole new world of conversation with your one length irons. its good to see the interest this topic has created. i would be interested to hear what equipment you are using to find the spine and NBP nad your thoughts on Flowing?

[IanO]

On ebay there is the steel tubed spine finder and the poly pipe spine finder. The guys with steel say that the poly pipe is no good and the poly pipe guys say it is just as good.

Would one be better than the other?

[chappy1970]

I have the poly pipe one and it works fine.

I do intend to make one the steel pipe versions though, just for interest sake

[IanO]

Excellent answer Chappy! Thanks

[Captain Nemo]

As long as it clamps/sits firm in your vice it would be fine I'd say?

[PeteyD]

Poly one works fine for me.

[David Lake]

I have found that the 20092type of spine finder shown here produces by far the most accurate results. There is another extremely important point that is missed by those applying this procedure and that is measuring the raw shaft. The amount of tip-trim coupled with the amount of final butt-trim greatly influences the results. Therefore it is imperative to perform the spine measurement after tip and butt-trimming are completed. The butt-trimming is done by marking the shaft as to which club head is being shafted and then inserting the shaft (loose) into the club-head and cutting to final length prior to spining the shaft.

David Lake, President
1 Iron Golf, Inc.