Best way to get over the flu

[Collis]

Ideas on getting over it.
Killing me ATM, and no seaming to get any better

[TheTrueReview]

Treatment - rest.

Prevention - stay away from workplaces in winter. They're fest-houses.

[Ferrins]

At night before bed cut up 5 garlic cloves and swallow with water. Rub Vicks Vapour Rub on your feet and pull on some woollen socks. Got this from Madona and it works.

[markTHEblake]

Mix up one oyster, a raw egg, salt, pepper, Vegemite and dash of warm beer.

[Jarro]

Scotch on the rocks

[dc68]

Get someone to suck the poison out.

[Ferrins]

Molly Meldrum said that sucking a Life Saver was a good way to sooth a sore throat.

[Webster]

Drugs. Lots of them.

[sms316]

dave1 never gets the flu.

[Collis]

One of the down falls of tassie the weather is like a yo to. Was 23 one day then topped 9 the next.

[Dotty]

Flu or just a bad cold?

Primary - A gargle (and swallow) of equal parts Savacol, sambucca and tequila.
Secondary - Green chicken curry and stay warm
Tertiary - Aspirin, butter menthols, anticols, fisherman friends, etc. (Drixine nasal spray to stop the drips, but use sparingly, as you can develop 'rebound sinusitis')

[dave1]

dave1 never gets the flu. I do!!Lemon tea with ginger/garlic grated through - with a tea spoon of honey.....It doesnt taste great! Forget that though! ...Repeat it 3-4 times a day. Also eat oranges for vitamin C....Stay off sugary and fatty foods.....Sleep - get more...Dont do the "sweat it out" as body doesnt recover by getting hotter and in actual fact has to work harder to recover!

[Lobsta]

Pseudoephedrine!!!

[KristianJ]

Pseudoephedrine!!! Thing of the past...:( unless it's still available prescription only (I've never checked). Seems as if all of the over the counter stuff has phenylephrine instead of pseudoephedrine nowadays.

[PeteyD]

You can get some of that strong stuff in Japan. Cold pills I took over there must have had PE in them.

[shazza_rs]

Thing of the past...:( unless it's still available prescription only (I've never checked). Seems as if all of the over the counter stuff has phenylephrine instead of pseudoephedrine nowadays.


You just need to ask for the stuff containing pseudo. You'll have to give them your licence (courtesy of Project STOP). Just say that the phenylephrine products haven't worked for you in the past.

[razaar]

Hot rum toddy, several every night. Use OP rum.

[dave1]

You just need to ask for the stuff containing pseudo. You'll have to give them your licence (courtesy of Project STOP). Just say that the phenylephrine products haven't worked for you in the past. Drugs mask symptoms - they make you feel better but often slow full recovery because you get up and about - rest is actually required

[Dotty]

Drugs mask symptoms - they make you feel better but often slow full recovery because you get up and about - rest is actually required
In the case of a cold/flu, the pseudo isn't used as an 'upper' to get you back on your feet.

It's used for it's proper purpose as a vaso-constrictor (I think that's the term , as it's been 30 years since I did Pharmacology at uni) to stop the nose running like a tap.

[Hamo84]

Scotch on the rocks
Wonderful for sore throats as well

[Hamo84]

Treatment - rest.

Prevention - stay away from workplaces in winter. They're fest-houses.

Agree with this, rest is definitely a must do.

I work in an office with a higher number of temp agency staff who get paid by the hour (no sick leave etc) so they get sick and still come to work and spread the germs around. Having said that there are a number of full time staff who just refuse to take sick days also.

I understand it is a personal choice, but given places like offices often have shared kitchen facilities and workstations at close proximities to each other surely a duty of care needs to be excercised by managers and staff a like.

[markTHEblake]

Dotty, isn't the runny nose (as well as runny other spots) your body reacting to the virus trying to expel it?

Whilst we all want to relieve the
Symptoms of virul infection I think most of these is our body fighting back and we don't really want to stop that.

But what would I know.

[Dotty]

Dotty, isn't the runny nose (as well as runny other spots) your body reacting to the virus trying to expel it?

Whilst we all want to relieve the
Symptoms of virul infection I think most of these is our body fighting back and we don't really want to stop that.

But what would I know.
Sounds logical. But the virus would be in other parts of the body, and nasal secretions aren't the body's sole form of ridding itself of the virus.

I find a single dose of Drixine nasal spray (previously a single Sudafed tablet) stopped the constant drip long enough (4-6 hours), for the body's defence mechanisms (anti-bodies?) to kick in and do their job properly.

[dave1]

Colds and flus mean people are run down. (immune system down)

Rest is needed then lots of vitamin C and some D also.

I flatly refute western medicines approach to it.

[Yossarian]

Colds and flus mean people are run down. (immune system down)

Rest is needed then lots of vitamin C and some D also.

I flatly refute western medicines approach to it.

What approach is that dave?

[dave1]

What approach is that dave? Drugs/cough medicines

[Yossarian]

Drugs/cough medicines

That is the 'western approach' is it?

[Eldrick]

knew someone that swore by a shot of stones green ginger wine whenever he thought he was getting the sniffles

(tour)preferred is a day off in bed at the start,best to nip it off early and give the body a chance to fight it quickly

[Lobsta]

Pseudoephedrine is still available over the counter if you know where/how to get it. As Shazza said, you will need your drivers license. It helps if when you ask for it, you don't look like somebody that is intending to take it up to sell to the local meth cook in the carpark.

Dotty, yes, vasoconstrictor.

To whoever said it: stopping the runny nose doesn't reduce the body's immune response. A runny nose is a symptom of the body fighting the infection, not the way the body fights it. The work is done by the body's white blood cells and related immune proteins.

Interesting trivia: pseudoephedrine is the "antidote" to Viagra. Taken when the "intended effect" lasts longer than 4 hours.

[Yossarian]

Drugs/cough medicines


Pseudoephedrine is still available over the counter if you know where/how to get it. As Shazza said, you will need your drivers license. It helps if when you ask for it, you don't look like somebody that is intending to take it up to sell to the local meth cook in the carpark.

Dotty, yes, vasoconstrictor.

To whoever said it: stopping the runny nose doesn't reduce the body's immune response. A runny nose is a symptom of the body fighting the infection, not the way the body fights it. The work is done by the body's white blood cells and related immune proteins.

Interesting trivia: pseudoephedrine is the "antidote" to Viagra. Taken when the "intended effect" lasts longer than 4 hours.

Oh hai dave1, you are wrong.

[dave1]

That is the 'western approach' is it? Doctors love perscription drugs...They get bonus payments from drug companies if they meet certain targets....Holidays/golf clubsI will stick to my methods for colds and flus.

[Lobsta]

Doctors love perscription drugs...They get bonus payments from drug companies if they meet certain targets....Holidays/golf clubsI will stick to my methods for colds and flus.

This is one myth that particularly annoys me.

In the past, doctors did used to get rather extraordinary kickbacks from reps. This has not been the case for a few years now. Drug companies are barely even allowed to give pens and post it notes any more.

And irrespective of any kickbacks, doctors do not, did not and never would have "quotas" to meet. Health care professionals have a higher code of ethics than the kid that sells laptops at Harvey Norman. A doctor does not prescribe based on what the companies tell him, he prescribes based on what condition the patients have, and what medication he has the most experience and confidence with. The concept of a quota of prescriptions is ludicrous also because patient doctor confidentiality laws would prevent the divulging of this information.

[Yossarian]

This is one myth that particularly annoys me.

In the past, doctors did used to get rather extraordinary kickbacks from reps. This has not been the case for a few years now. Drug companies are barely even allowed to give pens and post it notes any more.

And irrespective of any kickbacks, doctors do not, did not and never would have "quotas" to meet. Health care professionals have a higher code of ethics than the kid that sells laptops at Harvey Norman. A doctor does not prescribe based on what the companies tell him, he prescribes based on what condition the patients have, and what medication he has the most experience and confidence with. The concept of a quota of prescriptions is ludicrous also because patient doctor confidentiality laws would prevent the divulging of this information.

Well said.

[rubin]

.......
Interesting trivia: pseudoephedrine is the "antidote" to Viagra. Taken when the "intended effect" lasts longer than 4 hours.

question for u lobby:
Is their any truth in the no-doze + pseudoephedrine = (a basic form of) Speed? I heard it years ago, but have never known if its true.

[BroKar]

Pseudo ephedrine is basically speed

[dave1]

This is one myth that particularly annoys me.In the past, doctors did used to get rather extraordinary kickbacks from reps. This has not been the case for a few years now. Drug companies are barely even allowed to give pens and post it notes any more.And irrespective of any kickbacks, doctors do not, did not and never would have "quotas" to meet. Health care professionals have a higher code of ethics than the kid that sells laptops at Harvey Norman. A doctor does not prescribe based on what the companies tell him, he prescribes based on what condition the patients have, and what medication he has the most experience and confidence with. The concept of a quota of prescriptions is ludicrous also because patient doctor confidentiality laws would prevent the divulging of this information.Im not anti drugs for serious medical conditions and illnesses (mental and physical) but for common colds and flu's its not needed. My wife is an ex RN (registered nurse) and most people just need rest and a healthier diet for a few days.

[shazza_rs]

Pseudo ephedrine is basically speed

Wrong. Pseudo is one of a few ingredients in a series of complex reactions before it gets to 'speed'.

[PeteyD]

Doctors love perscription drugs...They get bonus payments from drug companies if they meet certain targets....Holidays/golf clubsI will stick to my methods for colds and flus.


This is one myth that particularly annoys me.

In the past, doctors did used to get rather extraordinary kickbacks from reps. This has not been the case for a few years now. Drug companies are barely even allowed to give pens and post it notes any more.

And irrespective of any kickbacks, doctors do not, did not and never would have "quotas" to meet. Health care professionals have a higher code of ethics than the kid that sells laptops at Harvey Norman. A doctor does not prescribe based on what the companies tell him, he prescribes based on what condition the patients have, and what medication he has the most experience and confidence with. The concept of a quota of prescriptions is ludicrous also because patient doctor confidentiality laws would prevent the divulging of this information.

This is like the arguments you get against immunisation. Full of ignorance and rubbish about pharma companies cashing in.

[Dotty]

Im not anti drugs for serious medical conditions and illnesses (mental and physical) but for common colds and flu's its not needed. My wife is an ex RN (registered nurse) and most people just need rest and a healthier diet for a few days.
There's some partial truth in this.

Drugs have their place in symptomatic relief of colds and flu. Different drugs fix different symptoms, as posted above. It is important to get the right drug, and the best example is cough medicine, where a dry cough needs a codeine-like drug to suppress the tickle in the throat. But a cough suppressant is bad for a chesty cough, where the cough is trying to get the muck out of the lungs. (In this case, a commercial expectorant may help, or if you don't like taking drugs, stick your head over a bowl of boiling water, with or without oil/lemon/garlic/chili, and drape a towel over both.)

First problem is that people are influenced by the opinion of neighbours, relatives, someone at work, adverts/ratbags on TV/internet, etc. (when they are not giving golf, home improvement or financial advice.) Get the advice from a health professional, and the easiest is a pharmacist.

Second problem (and I'm taking it from the 80's when I dispensed) was that drugs to treat the cold/flu symptom were not on the federal government free/subsidised medicine list, but antibiotics were. (The good old days when prescriptions were only $2 and free to pensioners.) 'Thanks' to Hawke, Medicare and bulk-billing, people with colds went to the 'no cost' doctor for a cold/flu, but the doctor would only prescribe an antibiotic off the subsidised-list (and very occasionally a strong expectorant or Ventolin puffer, both also on the subsidised-list and ironically available over the counter without a script).

On benefit of successive federal governments decreasing their subsidising of prescription medicines is that the public has been better served with more effective over the counter (OTC) treatments, by breaking the 'sick = doctor visit' cycle.

[Yossarian]

Im not anti drugs for serious medical conditions and illnesses (mental and physical) but for common colds and flu's its not needed. My wife is an ex RN (registered nurse) and most people just need rest and a healthier diet for a few days.

My girlfriends a doctor, Lobsta and Dotty are both pharmacists. I think we all agree that rest is a key component, it is just you that has you head in the sand.

[Lobsta]

Pseudo ephedrine is basically speed

Wrong. Pseudo is one of a few ingredients in a series of complex reactions before it gets to 'speed'.
Sorta both right there.

Chemically (structurally) pseudoephedrine and methylamphetamine (speed) are very, very similar. So similar that it is possible to convert between the two using backyard labs.

However pharmacodynamically (long word for what the drug does to the body), they are rather different.

Meth causes quite a few effects in the brain. In lay terms, it makes the nerves release all of their adrenaline (fight or flight), dopamine (pleasure/addiction/love) and seratonin (happy) from storage where the chemicals don't to anything, into the synaptic cleft, which is where they have to be to have an action. That causes the massive amounts of energy, concentration and focus (thanks to adrenaline), euphoria (thanks to dopamine and seratonin) and other awesome effects.

Meth also disables the pumps responsible for removing these three chemicals from the synaptic cleft, meaning they stay there for longer.

Finally, it actually causes the nerves to get rid of the dopamine cleanup pumps, meaning that the dopamine stays in the synaptic cleft for even longer. The majority of meth's effect therefore, is due to the massive release of dopamine, which then is slow to be removed.

This comes at a price however. The body only stores so much dopamine, adrenaline and seratonin, and can only regenerate it at a finite rate. Therefore, once it runs out, and the user is no longer on the drug, they have the massive crash, which has symptoms of the opposite to the high. So energy and concentration become lethargy and distraction, pleasure/addiction/love become irritability, withdrawal and anger and happiness becomes clinical depression. It can and usually does lead to clinical psychosis.

Pseudo is a much nicer drug. It causes the release of adrenaline into the synaptic cleft. This causes the blood vessels to constrict (reduce in diameter). The effect happens in almost the whole body, which is why pseudo can raise heart rate, blood pressure, and make little blue pills as effective as little blue tic tacs. The vessels we care about for it's effect are the ones in the nose. By reducing their size, you reduce inflammation of the sinus tissue, which opens airways.

Also, and here comes one of my sweet metaphors, it reduces the mucus production. Think of the blood vessels in your nose like really long versions of those balloons you use to make dogs and elephants at carnivals. Blood vessels aren't sealed though, they are permeable to allow transport of substances in and out of them. In the nose, mucus is the result of part of the blood leaking through the walls of the blood vessel. So imagine the big long balloon has lots of tiny holes in it. If you run water through the balloon, some is going to leak out of it because of the holes. If you were able to force the balloon to expand, while keeping the water pressure inside the balloon constant, more water is going to leak out because it becomes more permeable (holes get larger) and because more volume is passing through the balloon per unit of time. If you then somehow were able to force the balloon to return to it's previously unstretched state, the reverse would happen. Holes shrink and less water passes through per unit of time. That is how by constricting the blood vessels in the nose, pseudo reduces mucus production. Not a perfect metaphor, because the mucus is a result of only part of your blood leaking out, but you get the picture.

Thus endth the lesson.

Lobby

P.s. In the above explanation, some corners have been cut in the interest of making concepts explainable. But the underlying concepts are sound.

[Lobsta]

There's some partial truth in this.

Drugs have their place in symptomatic relief of colds and flu. Different drugs fix different symptoms, as posted above. It is important to get the right drug, and the best example is cough medicine, where a dry cough needs a codeine-like drug to suppress the tickle in the throat. But a cough suppressant is bad for a chesty cough, where the cough is trying to get the muck out of the lungs. (In this case, a commercial expectorant may help, or if you don't like taking drugs, stick your head over a bowl of boiling water, with or without oil/lemon/garlic/chili, and drape a towel over both.)

First problem is that people are influenced by the opinion of neighbours, relatives, someone at work, adverts/ratbags on TV/internet, etc. (when they are not giving golf, home improvement or financial advice.) Get the advice from a health professional, and the easiest is a pharmacist.

Second problem (and I'm taking it from the 80's when I dispensed) was that drugs to treat the cold/flu symptom were not on the federal government free/subsidised medicine list, but antibiotics were. (The good old days when prescriptions were only $2 and free to pensioners.) 'Thanks' to Hawke, Medicare and bulk-billing, people with colds went to the 'no cost' doctor for a cold/flu, but the doctor would only prescribe an antibiotic off the subsidised-list (and very occasionally a strong expectorant or Ventolin puffer, both also on the subsidised-list and ironically available over the counter without a script).

On benefit of successive federal governments decreasing their subsidising of prescription medicines is that the public has been better served with more effective over the counter (OTC) treatments, by breaking the 'sick = doctor visit' cycle.

Bloody well said Dotty. Nothing shits me more than the public opinion of "I have a cold, I need antibiotics.". It is perpetuated however, by chickenshit doctors who are too afraid to send people away without a script for something, so they write a simple penicillin to shut them up. And now people are complaining about the problem of antibiotic resistance. Guess what caused that!!


question for u lobby:
Is their any truth in the no-doze + pseudoephedrine = (a basic form of) Speed? I heard it years ago, but have never known if its true.

Noooootttt really. I'm constantly surprised by what people thing No Doz is, and how they react when I tell them what it actually is. No Doz = 100mg of caffeine. Which is about 1-2 coffees worth depending on how strong and how large you have it. That's all. No Doz Plus has the added ingredient of a small dose of a B group vitamin.

Pseudo + No Doz will perk you up a bit, because pseudo also has stimulant effect similar to caffeine, but all that will likely result from the combination is high blood pressure, high heart rate, maybe some palpitations, tremors in the hands, the attention span of an ADHD kid and a massive sleepy crash in a few hours. No dopamine or seratonin (see above post) means none of the addictive or pleasurable properties of Speed. If the above rumor was true, then everybody that had a strong coffee and a cold and flu med would be running around raving with glow sticks and kissing each other. Which would make for an interesting winter season I guess.

But no, pseudo + No Doz doesn't = basic speed.

[Lobsta]

Colds and flus mean people are run down. (immune system down)

Rest is needed then lots of vitamin C and some D also.

I flatly refute western medicines approach to it.

Just thought I'd point out, vitamin supplements are western medicine.

As is the concept of an immune system.

[idgolfguy]

Eat a red or green Capsicum to dose up on Vitamin C one a day during the cold period. Vitamin C does not get absorbed by the body, I believe.

Should feel better after a couple of days anyway.

[Eldrick]

Sorta both right there.

Chemically (structurally) pseudoephedrine and methylamphetamine (speed) are very, very similar. So similar that it is possible to convert between the two using backyard labs.

However pharmacodynamically (long word for what the drug does to the body), they are rather different.

Meth causes quite a few effects in the brain. In lay terms, it makes the nerves release all of their adrenaline (fight or flight), dopamine (pleasure/addiction/love) and seratonin (happy) from storage where the chemicals don't to anything, into the synaptic cleft, which is where they have to be to have an action. That causes the massive amounts of energy, concentration and focus (thanks to adrenaline), euphoria (thanks to dopamine and seratonin) and other awesome effects.

Meth also disables the pumps responsible for removing these three chemicals from the synaptic cleft, meaning they stay there for longer.

Finally, it actually causes the nerves to get rid of the dopamine cleanup pumps, meaning that the dopamine stays in the synaptic cleft for even longer. The majority of meth's effect therefore, is due to the massive release of dopamine, which then is slow to be removed.

This comes at a price however. The body only stores so much dopamine, adrenaline and seratonin, and can only regenerate it at a finite rate. Therefore, once it runs out, and the user is no longer on the drug, they have the massive crash, which has symptoms of the opposite to the high. So energy and concentration become lethargy and distraction, pleasure/addiction/love become irritability, withdrawal and anger and happiness becomes clinical depression. It can and usually does lead to clinical psychosis.

Pseudo is a much nicer drug. It causes the release of adrenaline into the synaptic cleft. This causes the blood vessels to constrict (reduce in diameter). The effect happens in almost the whole body, which is why pseudo can raise heart rate, blood pressure, and make little blue pills as effective as little blue tic tacs. The vessels we care about for it's effect are the ones in the nose. By reducing their size, you reduce inflammation of the sinus tissue, which opens airways.

Also, and here comes one of my sweet metaphors, it reduces the mucus production. Think of the blood vessels in your nose like really long versions of those balloons you use to make dogs and elephants at carnivals. Blood vessels aren't sealed though, they are permeable to allow transport of substances in and out of them. In the nose, mucus is the result of part of the blood leaking through the walls of the blood vessel. So imagine the big long balloon has lots of tiny holes in it. If you run water through the balloon, some is going to leak out of it because of the holes. If you were able to force the balloon to expand, while keeping the water pressure inside the balloon constant, more water is going to leak out because it becomes more permeable (holes get larger) and because more volume is passing through the balloon per unit of time. If you then somehow were able to force the balloon to return to it's previously unstretched state, the reverse would happen. Holes shrink and less water passes through per unit of time. That is how by constricting the blood vessels in the nose, pseudo reduces mucus production. Not a perfect metaphor, because the mucus is a result of only part of your blood leaking out, but you get the picture.

Thus endth the lesson.

Lobby

P.s. In the above explanation, some corners have been cut in the interest of making concepts explainable. But the underlying concepts are sound.


thanks Heisenberg
lets be friends

[timah!]

No Doz + Red Bull = fun though!

[dave1]

Just thought I'd point out, vitamin supplements are western medicine.As is the concept of an immune system. I use oranges and kiwi fruit for vitamin C and vegies for other vitamins

[Lobsta]

No Doz + Red Bull = fun though!

No Doz + Red Bull = fun heart attack!

[dave1]

My girlfriends a doctor, Lobsta and Dotty are both pharmacists. I think we all agree that rest is a key component, it is just you that has you head in the sand. Im happy to be wrong but in my experience it works for me and family..... funnily I have a head cold and Im dosing up on vic c. Garli/ginger and lemon teas.

[Yossarian]

No wonder you are happy so much eh?

[Lobsta]

I use oranges and kiwi fruit for vitamin C and vegies for other vitamins

You are missing the point. Anything that utilizes a scientific view of healing, such as the dose/effect relationship, or foreign invaders in the body as a cause of illness, falls under the category of Western Medicine.

Eastern medicine is healing practices that are not rooted in science, I.e. Can not be demonstrated with appropriate rigor in trials, have no scientific mechanism of action etc. Eastern medicine concerns itself predominantly with Qi (pronounced chi) and other body life forces and proposes that one gets sick as a result of an imbalance in the body's various energy levels. Treatments such as acupuncture, meditation, accupressure, feng shui and aura healing are examples of eastern medicine.

The acknowledgement of viruses being the causative agent of an illness is in itself Western Medicine. Saying that you supplement (even with natural sources) vitamins to aid an immune system to fight said virus is also an acknowledgement of a scientific basis of a disease, and is therefore considered Western Medicine. The concept of vitamins in the first place is a Western Medicinal concept.

Interestingly the two concepts can share common ground.

E.g. Drinking tea because you believe there to be something in it that will help your body beat an infection : Western Medicine.

Drinking tea because you believe that the process and ceremony of drinking the tea will cleanse the body or negative energy and focus positive energy : Eastern Medicine.

[timah!]

No Doz + Red Bull = fun heart attack!

Sook...
:lol:

[rubin]

Sook...
:lol:

Wouldnt recommend it. I did it once by accident. Took a no-doze (hadnt slept for almost 2 days) and then about 20mins later had a redbull forgetting i took the no-doze.

Not a fun night that one.

[Johnny Canuck]

Ass sore in the morning, Rubes?

[Hamo84]

No Doz + Red Bull = fun though!

talking from previous experience there Timah lol

[Hamo84]

Ass sore in the morning, Rubes?

Gold JC!!

[dave1]

No wonder you are happy so much eh? :-) ok my way of healing might not be best as thread title says "best" ...Thats fine. I haven't said the GP or pharmacy guys are wrong either....I'm a lefty on a few things...

[Yossarian]

:-) ok my way of healing might not be best as thread title says "best" ...Thats fine. I haven't said the GP or pharmacy guys are wrong either....I'm a lefty on a few things...

You flatly refuted GP's and Pharmacists.


Colds and flus mean people are run down. (immune system down)

Rest is needed then lots of vitamin C and some D also.

I flatly refute western medicines approach to it.

[just]

You flatly refuted GP's and Pharmacists.
You tricky lawyer types and your use of logic...

[Yossarian]

3 years of study for these kind of skills just!

[timah!]

talking from previous experience there Timah lol

Maybe!

[dave1]

You flatly refuted GP's and Pharmacists.Refute bad choice of words - i should have said refuse ....Blaming my Austrian mum and Croatian dad!!

[Yossarian]

So you personally flatly refuse Western medicines approach to the flu. Even though taking vitamins, resting ect are Western methods of dealing with the flu? This thread has been helpful and make the Verves songs a lot clearer to me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToQ0n3itoII&feature=related

[dave1]

So you personally flatly refuse Western medicines approach to the flu. Even though taking vitamins, resting ect are Western methods of dealing with the flu? This thread has been helpful and make the Verves songs a lot clearer to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToQ0n3itoII&feature=related The east told us to rest!

[Yossarian]

What is the rest, I am ready for enlightenment.

[Eldrick]

they told us it's alright

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul_hcxlA5KU

[markTHEblake]

I agree with Dave1's view here, I am also skeptical about taking too many prescripted medicines. The human body is a remarkable self healing machine, thats why placebos do such a great job (like acupuncture) :-)

[Yossarian]

Yeah that is why we lived so long pre medicine.

[markTHEblake]

like Methuselah?

[Yossarian]

like Methuselah?

Sure if you believe in literal interpretations of the Old Testament, but then you are going to have different views about what made people live that long.

Do you want me to find a graph of life expectancy for you?

[markTHEblake]

Please remember I said sceptical, not anti.


but then you are going to have different views about what made people live that long

I think the oxygen levels were richer, and for the same reason lizards used to live so much longer, and grow really big (unlike humans most reptiles never stop growing). We know what effects richer oxygen has on plants, so it stands to reason the same might occur for humans and allow us to live longer.


Do you want me to find a graph of life expectancy for you?

No need, I have seen all that before, somewhere there is a civilisation that had a life expectancy of 29. These do not paint a true picture, because ancient life expectancies were also significantly impaired by war, famine, and hygiene issues, particularly the latter. It was only a century or two ago it was discovered that we needed to wash our hands under running water instead of in a bowl of water. Doctors were spreading diseases not treating them. It was not the lack of prescriptable medicine that caused these early deaths, just poor hygiene, namely because not until Pasteur et al did we have an understanding of micro organisms.

Shameless plug: Moses taught to wash hands under running water some 3500 years earlier.

[Yossarian]

I'll remember the next time I go to South East Asia and catch malaria that I just should have washed my hands.

[markTHEblake]

Silly boy.

I said skeptical, I didnt say I was a Mormon (or whichever group it is that refuses all medical treatment outright).

[Yossarian]

Jehovah's Witnesses.

You are silly.

[markTHEblake]

Well I did agree with Dave1, even admitting that is silly.

Still I dont think headaches are caused by a lack of panadol in the brain.

[Yossarian]

That isn't my point.

[Johnny Canuck]

Headaches are caused by Tourfit.

[Eldrick]

my wife's headaches are caused by me wanting to have sex with her

[dave1]

Well I did agree with Dave1, even admitting that is silly.Still I dont think headaches are caused by a lack of panadol in the brain.I try to figure out whats making me sick as opposed to masking the illness with drugs...Im not anti drugs for serious illnesses and conditions but for flus, colds and headaches I dont feel the need to drug up.

[Tongueboy]

flu shot every winter. only flu i get these days is hessian flu......sleeping next to old bags!

[just]

I try to figure out whats making me sick as opposed to masking the illness with drugs...Im not anti drugs for serious illnesses and conditions but for flus, colds and headaches I dont feel the need to drug up.
Influenza, or "the flu", is generally a serious illness. It's been known to kill people. Lots of them. Millions in some epidemics in fact. Tens of millions. Possibly hundreds of millions.

What most, including seemingly you, call "the flu" is just a cold. Which is not generally serious. Or indeed fatal. If you had actually suffered from influenza, as I unfortunately have, you would most likely "feel the need to drug up". In fact sometimes it may be a necessity to "drug up" otherwise you may end up dead. In a society blessed with free choice and free will I support your decision not to "drug up" for "the flu".

[sms316]

I suspect that Just's post is his most intelligent to date. Man colds are not the flu.

[BrettM]

We just got back from the doctor for our daughter who said that the flu shot does nothing for the common head cold.

[Marto65]

Tim Tams.

[dave1]

Influenza, or "the flu", is generally a serious illness. It's been known to kill people. Lots of them. Millions in some epidemics in fact. Tens of millions. Possibly hundreds of millions.What most, including seemingly you, call "the flu" is just a cold. Which is not generally serious. Or indeed fatal. If you had actually suffered from influenza, as I unfortunately have, you would most likely "feel the need to drug up". In fact sometimes it may be a necessity to "drug up" otherwise you may end up dead. In a society blessed with free choice and free will I support your decision not to "drug up" for "the flu".I know what you mean...Elderly and children are susceptible yes...Or people with other conditions...The issue I see is doctors never say..He take this medication but also get some rest, eat better...Drink more fluids and reduce your stress. People think that medication alone will make them better. Im not for the 5th time anti drugs...They are a part of the healing process for people who are ill.Never heard a doc ask - how much water do you drink..? How much alcohol do you consume?....What's your diet like?....Whats your stress levels like?A holistic approach is needed.

[Lobsta]

I know what you mean...Elderly and children are susceptible yes...Or people with other conditions...The issue I see is doctors never say..He take this medication but also get some rest, eat better...Drink more fluids and reduce your stress. People think that medication alone will make them better. Im not for the 5th time anti drugs...They are a part of the healing process for people who are ill.Never heard a doc ask - how much water do you drink..? How much alcohol do you consume?....What's your diet like?....Whats your stress levels like?A holistic approach is needed.

Just out of curiosity, how much do your doctors charge for an average consultation? I.e. Are they bulk bill doctors that just charge what Medicare/health fund will contribute, or is there an additional out of pocket expense incurred by yourself?

I only ask, because I am always asked the questions you raise, by any doctor that I see who doesn't know me. But the doctors I see are ones that charge above the Medicare amount (I.e. Ones where I incur an out of pocket expense). Bulk billing doctors are a victim of an unfortunate system, which rewards (financially) lots of short consultations over fewer longer ones. The net result of which is a mechanical, impersonal and generally poorer standard of care.

Just like any profession, there are good and bad doctors. Just because they are more highly educated than a mechanic or carpenter for example, doesn't mean that there aren't ones that have lost the passion for what they do. It is very easy in health care to get cynical/apathetic when a decent portion of what you do is deal with drug seeking behavior and hypochondriac pains in the ass. If your doctor doesn't take a holistic approach to health care, then perhaps find another doctor.

Alternatively, ask your pharmacist for some advice. I've heard that pharmacists are super knowledgeable, rakishly handsome, terrific lovers and have larger than average genitals.

[Daves]

.........Alternatively, ask your pharmacist for some advice. I've heard that pharmacists are super knowledgeable, rakishly handsome, terrific lovers and have larger than average genitals.

Only because of all the mind altering drugs they have access too!;)

[3oneday]

When I was younger... garlic prawns, bourbon and coke and codrals. The next day I was 100% cleansed ;)

[Dotty]

When I was younger... garlic prawns, bourbon and coke and codrals. The next day I was 100% cleansed ;)
Was that age 7 or 8? ;)

You're not far off it. Protein with essential oils/herbs/spices, an anti-bacterial, some energy/hydration to ensure the body gives a good fight and some medication to temporarily address the symptoms.


ps. At least, no-one on the forum has suggested Kunzea Oil. Supposed to fix everything from dry elbows to global warming.

[dave1]

Just out of curiosity, how much do your doctors charge for an average consultation? I.e. Are they bulk bill doctors that just charge what Medicare/health fund will contribute, or is there an additional out of pocket expense incurred by yourself?I only ask, because I am always asked the questions you raise, by any doctor that I see who doesn't know me. But the doctors I see are ones that charge above the Medicare amount (I.e. Ones where I incur an out of pocket expense). Bulk billing doctors are a victim of an unfortunate system, which rewards (financially) lots of short consultations over fewer longer ones. The net result of which is a mechanical, impersonal and generally poorer standard of care. Just like any profession, there are good and bad doctors. Just because they are more highly educated than a mechanic or carpenter for example, doesn't mean that there aren't ones that have lost the passion for what they do. It is very easy in health care to get cynical/apathetic when a decent portion of what you do is deal with drug seeking behavior and hypochondriac pains in the ass. If your doctor doesn't take a holistic approach to health care, then perhaps find another doctor. Alternatively, ask your pharmacist for some advice. I've heard that pharmacists are super knowledgeable, rakishly handsome, terrific lovers and have larger than average genitals.15 mins $75 - get $45 back30 mins 105 - get 68.50 back30 mins and above $125 - get 85 backIts worth spending and asking lots of questions. I want know whats making me sick as opposed to quick fix solution.

[Eag's]

Simple answer, rum and lot's of it ;)

[Dcanto]

Simple answer, rum and lot's of it ;) +1, taking some "medicine" right now. Has anyone mentioned goji berries yet? ;)

[PeteyD]

It amazes me that someone will sit there with a headache (for whatever reason) and not take a panadol to relieve the symptoms. Do you hammer nails into your testicles for fun?

[dave1]

I will drink more water. Then massage my kneck for 5 mins. Put a cold face cloth across my forehead for 5 mins.That does it 95% of the time!

[Yossarian]

What do you do the other 5%?

[Haystacks]

...and WTF is a kneck?

[just]

What do you do the other 5%?

Colonic irrigation


...and WTF is a kneck?

Part of the colon.

[Yossarian]

That does solve a lot of problems, especially when ginger and honeysuckle are used.