Banning the belly - Done

[matty]

http://www.golfdigestcanada.ca/instruction/discussions-to-ban-anchoring-continue/

While I don't consider it cheating I have no problem with them banning the use.

[dave1]

why the hysteria

one major win, one!!

lets ban the pro V1 and the 460CC head, lets ban the high end shafts that smash the ball so far that when the ball comes down it's got snow on it!!

lets ban the player practicing more than 3 hours a day - Now Im being silly - but I dont see why they need to ban something that I dont feel is a huge advantage. Adam scott won more tournaments before using broostick! he got to world number 3 using a normal length scotty cameron

[TheTrueReview]

... lets ban the .... - Now Im being silly ...

No you're not Dave. I've seen some ridiculous comments in threads about the belly/broomstick and yours don't come close. Hysteria? Maybe. Irrational? Undoubtedly.

[sms316]

No you're not Dave. I've seen some ridiculous comments in threads about the belly/broomstick and yours don't come close. Hysteria? Maybe. Irrational? Undoubtedly. Why do you think it is irrational to want the long/belly putter banned?

[goughy]

I just converted my putter back to a belly!

[Iain]

Lucky you only play in an ambrose event!!

[goughy]

Why? It's still a legal club? I have no problems with them or long putters, since they are a total legal club and their use is well within the rules of golf, and I don't consider them cheating in any way.

Besides, looking at how long away it 'could' be if they change the rules, I'll get in at least 12 to 14 games with it (wouldn't be banned until at least 2016)

[Dotty]

Interestingly, I always thought they should be banned, due to anchoring the club against the body would have contravened Rule 14.1 (Ball fairly struck at), that bans scraping, pushing and doing the Eddie Charlton.

But on checking the rules, I thought wrong. I can't see any mention of anchoring the club against the body, when playing a stroke.

Looks like I might have to change my stance on their legality.


ps. They're still ugly and got the credibility of an automatic sports car.

[TheTrueReview]

Why do you think it is irrational to want the long/belly putter banned?

I never said that. I said that I've seen many ridiculous and irrational comments. For someone to want the long/belly putter to be banned or to stay approved is their opinion. That is all it is. The kookiness starts with the supporting arguments, some of which are plain ridiculous; eg. it's cheating, it should be "illegal", etc.

[matty]

Interestingly, I always thought they should be banned, due to anchoring the club against the body would have contravened Rule 14.1 (Ball fairly struck at), that bans scraping, pushing and doing the Eddie Charlton.

But on checking the rules, I thought wrong. I can't see any mention of anchoring the club against the body, when playing a stroke.

Looks like I might have to change my stance on their legality.


ps. They're still ugly and got the credibility of an automatic sports car.

Interesting. I had exactly the same reasoning. Now you're telling me the anchoring has nothing to do with it! It looks as though they're looking at what a 'stroke' is. I look forward to that definition in respect to the belly putter.

[Puji]

ps. They're still ugly and got the credibility of an automatic sports car.

gold.

[Webster]

They won't have the balls to do it.

[petethepilot]

Ok, you are now king of the Golf world! How do you ban it? Frame a law that will stand up to a challenge of banning Belly putters/Broomstick type putters
and see if the Ozgolf members can find a hole in your argument!

[Webster]

"The putter must be the shortest club in the players bag. Only the putter may be used on the green. Penalty - disqualification."

[Steve57]

Well done Jack!!
Can't argue with that.

[petethepilot]

So does Ray Floyd who won several majors using a 37" putter should hand his trophies back! My SW (longer than my Lob wedge) is 35" long. He went to that length of putter because he had a bad back and a shorter length putter made practice impossible.

Just throwing that in.

[Johnny Canuck]

"The putter must be the shortest club in the players bag. Only the putter may be used on the green. Penalty - disqualification."No chipping on and l shaped or bendy green where you are blocked from going at the pin?

[matty]

Maybe they'll classify the anchoring of the putter as not being a correct stroke.

[TheTrueReview]

"The putter must be the shortest club in the players bag. Only the putter may be used on the green. Penalty - disqualification."

You've got this bloke scared already Jack.

http://blogs.golf.com/.a/6a00d8341caaef53ef014e893ef7c5970d-320wi

Btw, under your new rule, golfers would need to play putt-putt to get around a bunker on greens such as this.

http://www.worldgolf.com/photo-galleries/images/preview/29007.jpg

[sms316]

You've got this bloke scared already Jack.http://blogs.golf.com/.a/6a00d8341caaef53ef014e893ef7c5970d-320wiBtw, under your new rule, golfers would need to play putt-putt to get around a bunker on greens such as this.http://www.worldgolf.com/photo-galleries/images/preview/29007.jpg Garrigus uses a cheat stick now TTR. Poor example.

[TheTrueReview]

Garrigus uses a cheat stick now TTR. Poor example.

It wasn't an example, it was a satirical comment. In any event, he went from a toothpick to a broomstick.

By the way, given your frequent use of the word "cheat (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cheating)", please direct me to the R & A rule which prevents the use of the belly/brookstick?

[TheNuclearOne]

why the hysteria

one major win, one!!

lets ban the pro V1 and the 460CC head, lets ban the high end shafts that smash the ball so far that when the ball comes down it's got snow on it!!


Just so i can better understand and learn from your comparisons -

What percent of golfers would you say use Pro V1's, 460cc heads or high end shafts vs long putters?

So 460cc heads make the ball go further? (Remembering pro's mostly hit the ball in the middle)

Do high end shafts as a mean (TS 6.2/7.2, DI's, etc suit?) make the ball go further than lower end shafts (lets say the old NV's, Proforce V2, Speeder 757 for examples?)?

Cheers.

[sms316]

It wasn't an example, it was a satirical comment. In any event, he went from a toothpick to a broomstick. By the way, given your frequent use of the word "cheat (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cheating)", please direct me to the R & A rule which prevents the use of the belly/brookstick?It is a commonly used description. They might be legal but in a lot of eyes they are unethical.

[goughy]

Are they considered 'unethical' because they go against the 'tradition' of golf?

Isn't 'tradition' the word you use when you want to say 'backwards', or to say that you don't want the game to progress or evolve?

[TheTrueReview]

It is a commonly used description. They might be legal but in a lot of eyes they are unethical.

Precisely. It's not cheating. It's subjective opinion. I know you don't agree with its use being permitted and I respect your right to an opinion. Calling others cheats, who use it in compliance with the rules however, is excessive.

[sms316]

Precisely. It's not cheating. It's subjective opinion. I know you don't agree with its use being permitted and I respect your right to an opinion. Calling others cheats, who use it in compliance with the rules however, is excessive. I've heard hybrids referred to as "poof woods". That doesn't mean that the person using them wants to be sodomised. I think you might be taking the term a bit literally.

[TheTrueReview]

I've heard hybrids referred to as "poof woods". That doesn't mean that the person using them wants to be sodomised. I think you might be taking the term a bit literally.

How should the term "cheat" be taken other than in the literal sense?

As for "poof woods"?? We obviously mix in different circles. Never heard of that one. :lol:

[goughy]

TTR, you do realise sms is probably the one who coined the phrase 'poof woods', hence the reason he hears it so often. He's the one saying it! :)

[TheNuclearOne]

Precisely. It's not cheating. It's subjective opinion. I know you don't agree with its use being permitted and I respect your right to an opinion. Calling others cheats, who use it in compliance with the rules however, is excessive.

Doesn't stop them bloody Kiwi's still calling us cheats for the underarm!!!!

:D

[TheTrueReview]

Doesn't stop them bloody Kiwi's still calling us cheats for the underarm!!!!

:D

The greatest day in our sporting history. ;) ... or perhaps for talkback radio.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/90/1981Underarm.jpg/250px-1981Underarm.jpg

[TheNuclearOne]

The greatest day in our sporting history. ;) ... or perhaps for talkback radio.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/90/1981Underarm.jpg/250px-1981Underarm.jpg


I still remember watching it live as a kid hahaha.

[idgolfguy]

Lawn bowling is all it is.

[dave1]

Just so i can better understand and learn from your comparisons - What percent of golfers would you say use Pro V1's, 460cc heads or high end shafts vs long putters? So 460cc heads make the ball go further? (Remembering pro's mostly hit the ball in the middle)Do high end shafts as a mean (TS 6.2/7.2, DI's, etc suit?) make the ball go further than lower end shafts (lets say the old NV's, Proforce V2, Speeder 757 for examples?)?Cheers.Golly goshI was making the point that there is probably many other technological advances that affect golf scores than the long putter........One major is all we have seen from long putters. The evidence (Imo) doesnt lead me to think there is a problem.....We haven't seen a huge number of Pga tour wins either.......I do think there would be a massive slap in Keegan Bradley's face if they changed it. Thats something that is forgotten in all of this.

[sms316]

Golly goshI was making the point that there is probably many other technological advances that affect golf scores than the long putter........One major is all we have seen from long putters. The evidence (Imo) doesnt lead me to think there is a problem.....We haven't seen a huge number of Pga tour wins either.......I do think there would be a massive slap in Keegan Bradley's face if they changed it. Thats something that is forgotten in all of this.Are you seriously saying that Keegan Bradley's feelings should be considered in the debate?

[TheNuclearOne]

Golly goshI was making the point that there is probably many other technological advances that affect golf scores than the long putter........One major is all we have seen from long putters. The evidence (Imo) doesnt lead me to think there is a problem.....We haven't seen a huge number of Pga tour wins either.......I do think there would be a massive slap in Keegan Bradley's face if they changed it. Thats something that is forgotten in all of this.


The long putter is only advantageous for some, it's not like it's some advancement that's enabled the tour as a whole to score lower.

For the some it is advantageous for, are they putting at a level higher than non broom users?

I'm pretty neutral on the topic, but am quite enjoying the thread.

[live4golf]

Does it count if you use a belly putter and are still a shite putter?

[matty]

I've heard hybrids referred to as "poof woods"

:lol:

[TheTrueReview]

Does it count if you use a belly putter and are still a shite putter?

That's called "foxing". ;)

[matty]

I think if they allow anchor putting they should allow croquet style putting. I'm aware of the reasons they don't but one can argue putting is an entirely different game. Just think about it, if you could use any form of putting it would make for very interesting viewing. Or would croquet style become dominant? I wonder if it was that effective.

[petethepilot]

I myself would be happy if it was banned! I would also be happy if driver shafts were limited to 44" and 400cc's and finally irons were only blade type design. Unfortunately, they currently aren't and I think telling someone they are using a cheat stick (i.e. they are cheating!) is wrong. Until they are illegal (which will be a while because nobody has deep enough pockets or big enough balls in the ruling golf bodies) they are just golf clubs!!!!

Just my opinion.

Pete

[dave1]

The long putter is only advantageous for some, it's not like it's some advancement that's enabled the tour as a whole to score lower. For the some it is advantageous for, are they putting at a level higher than non broom users? I'm pretty neutral on the topic, but am quite enjoying the thread. Adam scott was world #3 with a normal putter.....Its a bloody myth (IMO) that he's a better putter with the broomstick.

[TheNuclearOne]

Adam scott was world #3 with a normal putter.....Its a bloody myth (IMO) that he's a better putter with the broomstick.

Exactly.

[dave1]

I myself would be happy if it was banned! I would also be happy if driver shafts were limited to 44" and irons were only blade type design. Unfortunately, they currently aren't and I think telling someone they are using a cheat stick (i.e. they are cheating!) is wrong. Until they are illegal (which will be a while because nobody has deep enough pockets or big enough balls in the ruling golf bodies) they are just golf clubs!!!!Just my opinion.PeteShorter shafts (44 inches) would increase accuracy and distance. Most pros are not over 45"....The ball for mine is the biggest change in the last 10-15 years......It's the ball we hit!!....

[sms316]

Adam scott was world #3 with a normal putter.....Its a bloody myth (IMO) that he's a better putter with the broomstick. Dumbest argument ever. A few golfers have improved a bit in that time.

[markTHEblake]

I've heard hybrids referred to as "poof woods". That doesn't mean that the person using them wants to be sodomised. I think you might be taking the term a bit literally.

A pro mate of mine calls them Bitch Sticks.

[TheTrueReview]

A pro mate of mine calls them Bitch Sticks.

A mate of mine refers to my hybrid as a "rescue club". Weird Bastard.

[idgolfguy]

Only if you are being mugged and they are convenient.

[markTHEblake]

I call mine a 7 wood cos the head cover has a 7 on it, and I don't put head covers on irons.

[dave1]

Dumbest argument ever. A few golfers have improved a bit in that time. My point was hes not a better putter with the broomstick

[Johnny Canuck]

My point was hes not a better putter with the broomstick In recent times, I would say he is. He struggled terribly with the short stick for a while.

[sms316]

Peter Aliss and Dan Jenkins didn't miss the mark. From golfchannel.com

ST. AUGUSTINE, Fla. – Peter Alliss and Dan Jenkins had some strong words for the belly putter during their news conference Monday before the World Golf Hall of Fame induction ceremony.

They repeated their quips from a function a night earlier.

“I said, `The person who invented the belly putter ought to be put in prison,’” Jenkins said.

Alliss picked up from there.

“He’s talking rubbish,” Alliss said. “Belly putters? Sending a fellow to prison? He should be flogged first and then sent to prison.”

[TheTrueReview]

Peter Aliss and Dan Jenkins didn't miss the mark. From golfchannel.com

Rubbish. The person who invented golf should be put in prison after being flogged in public. :razz:

[dave1]

In recent times, I would say he is. He struggled terribly with the short stick for a while. Hes had a good results here and there.If hes improved it's fractionally at best.

[Daves]

Why do men always get fixated about the length of their shafts?;)

[xe1]

why the hysteria

one major win, one!!



What about Angle Cabrera? where does the 2009 masters putter fit in?

[Daves]

What about Angle Cabrera? where does the 2009 masters putter fit in?

It wasn't a belly putter, just a long standard putter (39") that wasn't anchored.

[1putt]

Couldn't agree more TTR. There is too much ill informed and subjective drivel being throw at belly and long putters. One thing that I know for a fact is: without the belly and long putter a lot of us older guys would have to give up the game. I just can't bend over putts anymore without stressing my lower back. Enter the belly and long putter the saviour of the older golfer. Over the past 10 years I have gone from short putter (30 years) then belly putter (10 years) nowadays it's the 50" long broomstick. So you young bucks try and be a little more respectful in your comments as to the people who use longer putters (they have their reasons). Remember this-one day you will be older and if you really love and enjoy the game and your back is killing you be thankful that the long putter will allow you to keep playing for a few more years yet.

[sms316]

Couldn't agree more TTR. There is too much ill informed and subjective drivel being throw at belly and long putters. One thing that I know for a fact is: without the belly and long putter a lot of us older guys would have to give up the game. I just can't bend over putts anymore without stressing my lower back. Enter the belly and long putter the saviour of the older golfer. Over the past 10 years I have gone from short putter (30 years) then belly putter (10 years) nowadays it's the 50" long broomstick. So you young bucks try and be a little more respectful in your comments as to the people who use longer putters (they have their reasons). Remember this-one day you will be older and if you really love and enjoy the game and your back is killing you be thankful that the long putter will allow you to keep playing for a few more years yet.What utter crap. The argument that these abominations keep people in the game is short sighted and selfish.

[Iain]

Exactly, you still need to bend over when using a belly putter. Why not use a 36" putter or longer (not a belly though) to reduce the stress.

[JADO75]

I'm 37, body is already a wreck from football, back especially. No long putter here mate.

[Johnny Canuck]

You bend over just as much with a belly putter. Do you carry 42" wedges? Poor excuse.

[goughy]

The point is, complain all you want, they're legal. They're not, what would sms call them, 'cheating'. That's just trying to get a bite.

Now, in no seriousness at all, I have to ask 1putt. Do you have one of those suction cup ball picker up things on the end of it? Cause I reckon if you did, you could give it a good lick, then if you shaved nice and close you could secure it to your chin. Now that would give the lads something to complain about ;)

Disclaimer - I currently have a belly putter and am no good with it :) But I am thinking sms must have got a serious flogging on the greens from someone using one...

[TheTrueReview]

There's some pretty heavy peer pressure being applied here. Kudos to anyone who can go about their business without giving a stuff what others think. Double kudos to those who zig when others zag.

[rubin]

Couldn't agree more TTR. There is too much ill informed and subjective drivel being throw at belly and long putters. One thing that I know for a fact is: without the belly and long putter a lot of us older guys would have to give up the game. I just can't bend over putts anymore without stressing my lower back. Enter the belly and long putter the saviour of the older golfer. Over the past 10 years I have gone from short putter (30 years) then belly putter (10 years) nowadays it's the 50" long broomstick. So you young bucks try and be a little more respectful in your comments as to the people who use longer putters (they have their reasons). Remember this-one day you will be older and if you really love and enjoy the game and your back is killing you be thankful that the long putter will allow you to keep playing for a few more years yet.

Im curious - do you have a Driver in your bag? or for that matter, an iron longer than maybe an 8 iron?

Reason i ask is simple biomechanics. The act of swinging a golf club with any measure of speed puts more pressure on your back, shoulders and hips than a by rocking a putter a few inches back and forwards.

Therefor - Your argument is unfounded and unsupported. If your back is that bad that you can't support a putter stroke, you would not be able to play.

[simmsy]

Can't agree at all there Rubin.
I have a bad back but the only time my particular back problem gets me is over a putt. The hinge angle I have and the time I spend in that one position cause the back to play up.

Sorry mate but true.

[TheNuclearOne]

Can't agree at all there Rubin.
I have a bad back but the only time my particular back problem gets me is over a putt. The hinge angle I have and the time I spend in that one position cause the back to play up.

Sorry mate but true.


For sure. My back is good but the only time it gets annoyed is when i spend some time on the putting green.

[timah!]

Putt less?
;)

[simmsy]

Yeah 15 mins on the putting green and I'm paying for it.

[Leon Phelps]

Can't agree at all there Rubin. I have a bad back but the only time my particular back problem gets me is over a putt. The hinge angle I have and the time I spend in that one position cause the back to play up. Sorry mate but true. +1.The only time my back gets sore is when I putt, I think it's the stationary position that does me, or maybe it the amount of putts I have to have

[JADO75]

Sounds like some of us need a cup of concrete to harden the #*€? up! Me included

[TheNuclearOne]

Sounds like some of us need a cup of concrete to harden the #*€? up! Me included

I don't think anyone is letting it get the better of them tho.

No pain, no gain :D

[IamViva]

i agree with simmsy, Nuke, Leon and as back pain effects most people differently, who is to say the longer putter doesnt help ease the pressure on his back?


If your back is that bad that you can't support a putter stroke, you would not be able to play.
I had a serious back injury over 3 year ago at 23 years of age which sat me out of golf for 2 years and am currently on the sidelines again now. i can assure you i experience the most discomfort chipping and standing over putts, sure a full swing can giving me a shooting pain now and then but the fact is maintaining posture over a putt is much more uncomfortable and difficult.

[Johnny Canuck]

On a one off, I have no problems with back pain. My back in fine, but I agree, a putting session can cause a good amount of discomfort.

[simmsy]

So wanna rework your thoughts yet Rubin?

Advice on back pain, parenting & heterosexual relationships all up to scratch then.

[rubin]

So wanna rework your thoughts yet Rubin?

i dont recall seeing any advice given...

however - my apologies. Although im not sure about ur case Mrs Simms.

When did period pain become back problems??? ;)

[goughy]

Meow.

[p4m]

wonder if there is any details on what type of putter has won on the pga in the last 3 years or so?
if belly is a monstrous stand out then there might be merit.

However everyone has the opportunity to use it so i dont find it cheating or against the spirit of the game.

[sms316]

However everyone has the opportunity to use it so i dont find it cheating or against the spirit of the game. This argument keeps popping up and it is still utterly stupid.

[IamViva]

This argument keeps popping up and it is still utterly stupid.
care to elaborate? fact is it isnt illegal

[sms316]

care to elaborate? fact is it isnt illegal I've elaborated plenty of times, but they help those who can't putt properly but are no advantage to those who can. They're immoral.

[dc68]

They're immoral.


But legal, until such time as they are banned I suggest you let it go big guy. It will only aggravate you.

[goughy]

I don't think they aggravate him at all. He's just enjoying the discussion.

[sms316]

The force is strong in you Goughy.

[Dotty]

I've elaborated plenty of times, but they help those who can't putt properly but are no advantage to those who can. They're immoral.
Could the same be said for using left handed clubs?

:smt064

[sms316]

Racist.

[petethepilot]

I think cavity back irons should be banned! Obviously they are a game improvement device! Just look at the scores now compared to 1900 when everybody used blades!!!!!

[dc68]

One word Pete. Ball.

[TheTrueReview]

I think cavity back irons should be banned! Obviously they are a game improvement device! Just look at the scores now compared to 1900 when everybody used blades!!!!!

I think jet airliners should be banned. They completely stuffed something or other ... sailing ships, horse and cart travel ... things like that. Completely immoral.

[mike]

I still don't have a problem with long putters. Motorised carts are more of a blight on the game than belly/broomstick putters.

Playing pennants in 34° heat and 90% humidity, you're at a huuuuuuge disadvantage when your opponent is riding around sitting on his arse. I don't care what putter he uses.

[Hooker]

It is a commonly used description. They might be legal but in a lot of eyes they are unethical.

They are I'm sure , but what about the other lot of eyes that say they are ethical. Lot of eyes play the game with different opinions but , what does it come down to . The rules of golf.

[sms316]

I still don't have a problem with long putters. Motorised carts are more of a blight on the game than belly/broomstick putters.Playing pennants in 34° heat and 90% humidity, you're at a huuuuuuge disadvantage when your opponent is riding around sitting on his arse. I don't care what putter he uses.Agree totally about carts and pennant.

[Tongueboy]

i like a putter that works

[IanO]

On the golf show Brett Ogle said that when he had the yips he tried the broomstick and it still didn't help him.

Personally I want the option to use a pool que and lie on the green .... ohhh ... hang on, there is a rule about that :oops:

[sms316]

I still refuse to accept Peter Senior as having a good career. His triple crown in 1989 should forever be marked with an asterisk.

[mike]

Why? Was he using a broomy or a golf cart?

[virge666]

Personally I want the option to use a pool que and lie on the green .... ohhh ... hang on, there is a rule about that :oops:

There is a rule about having a club anchored to your body . . . but that doesn't seem to stop anyone.

[virge666]

Agree totally about carts and pennant.

I thought carts were banned in a Pennant match . . .

[mike]

Down there maybe.

[sms316]

Only in Div 1 here. Nobody cares about the handicap sections because they aren't real pennant anyway.

[dc68]

Only in Div 1 here. Nobody cares about the handicap sections because they aren't real pennant anyway.



^^^

This.

[Johnny Canuck]

Let it begin.

[mike]

Fair points really.

[mike]

They're used in div 1 up here as far as I know. Just wrong.

[IanO]

There is a rule about having a club anchored to your body . . . but that doesn't seem to stop anyone.

Where is that rule? I have looked but cannot find it

[Shadesy]

Kuchar uses a Belly but doesn't put it to his belly. He uses it as an extension of his arm...

[virge666]

They're used in div 1 up here as far as I know. Just wrong.

NO ****ING WAY !!!

OK, in NSW Metro Pennant, if you even step onto a moving cart for even a second - it is instant DQ.

Step on a cart - get a lift to the bar, cause it is over.

[Hooker]

I still refuse to accept Peter Senior as having a good career. His triple crown in 1989 should forever be marked with an asterisk.
What should the asterisk say . " Peter Senior played and won within the rules of golf , therefore he won fair and square ".:smt038. "

[sms316]

What should the asterisk say . " Peter Senior played and won within the rules of golf , therefore he won fair and square ".:smt038. " There have been plenty of examples of things that are legal but considered unethical. Look at Sonny Bill Williams. Did he do nothing wrong?

[dc68]

He walked out on a signed contract. Wrong.

[Hooker]

There have been plenty of examples of things that are legal but considered unethical. Look at Sonny Bill Williams. Did he do nothing wrong?

Where does ethics show up when records of winners of majors are shown. So you want a special bit where ethics are shown when somebody wins a major.

[paulyboy]

Bit of a silly argument isn't it?
It's a non issue as far as I'm concerned.

[sms316]

Where does ethics show up when records of winners of majors are shown. So you want a special bit where ethics are shown when somebody wins a major. What do majors have to do with it? I want them out of golf.

[Hooker]

Don't hold your'e breath , they are here to stay , and no asterisks when one is used to win a major.

Swallow it and digest the facts , and stop wingeing.

[AndyP]

The belly should be banned. There is no place for fat people on the golf course, Peter Senior included.

[IamViva]

The belly should be banned. There is no place for fat people on the golf course, Peter Senior included.
hahahaha :razz: poor jarrod lyle

[TheTrueReview]

Bit of a silly argument isn't it?It's a non issue as far as I'm concerned. You're not the only one. Agree wholeheartedly.

Some don't seem to understand that vitriol does not a reasoned argument make.

[dave1]

I argue

One major...Whats the fuss about? Its a bloody myth they are a huge advantage!

[rubin]

not sure if this has been posted yet - but just for SMS....
http://thesandtrap.com/b/the_numbers_game/belly_putters_the_long_and_short_of_it

[Johnny Canuck]

I argueOne major...Whats the fuss about? Its a bloody myth they are a huge advantage! Proportions Dave1. How many users vs. How many in the fields? You should only count recent tournaments, since it had become more prominent.It certainly had a few tour wins last year.

[mike]

Ban belly putters and you may as well ban titanium drivers and graphite shafts.

Won't and shouldn't happen.

[Johnny Canuck]

Good find rubes.

[Yossarian]

A Scott lost a lot of sex appeal when he switched to the broomy.

[Webster]

On behalf of those who believe that long and belly putters should not be part of the game at any level, let me clearly state our position on the matter;

1. Yes, we are aware that under the rules at present they are permitted for use in all forms of play.
2. We consider the action of anchoring the putter to the body to be contrary to the spirit and traditions of the game, and therefore should not be permitted.
3. We support the R&A and the USGA in changing the rules to ban their use in all forms of play.
4. We respect the opinions of those who believe that they should be permitted for use, however noting in all cases that supporters of the long and belly putters are weak, stupid and probably ghey.

Jack

[TheTrueReview]

On behalf of those who believe that long and belly putters should not be part of the game at any level, let me clearly state our position on the matter;

1. Yes, we are aware that under the rules at present they are permitted for use in all forms of play.
2. We consider the action of anchoring the putter to the body to be contrary to the spirit and traditions of the game, and therefore should not be permitted.
3. We support the R&A and the USGA in changing the rules to ban their use in all forms of play.
4. We respect the opinions of those who believe that they should be permitted for use, however noting in all cases that supporters of the long and belly putters are weak, stupid and probably ghey.

Jack

Okay Jack. Which pill?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOLXQIdqE1qsR0A20jBFk2At_eN5zVr 6fk4WXoBnRPMM0HjLL-IQ

[Webster]

Didn't I make myself clear enough for you TTR?

(I usually prefer the red jelly beans)

[matty]

On behalf of those who believe that long and belly putters should not be part of the game at any level, let me clearly state our position on the matter;

1. Yes, we are aware that under the rules at present they are permitted for use in all forms of play.
2. We consider the action of anchoring the putter to the body to be contrary to the spirit and traditions of the game, and therefore should not be permitted.
3. We support the R&A and the USGA in changing the rules to ban their use in all forms of play.
4. We respect the opinions of those who believe that they should be permitted for use, however noting in all cases that supporters of the long and belly putters are weak, stupid and probably ghey.

Jack

Exactly.
In saying that, if they allow the belly they should allow all forms of putting, including straddle, and every sort of contraption to put with.

[matty]

A Scott lost a lot of sex appeal when he switched to the broomy.

:shock:

[JADO75]

No, I'm pretty sure blokes (not me) still find him attractive. Pretty sure he'd like a bloke with a broomstick too

[goughy]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHKrm0oqHORWqnllh3xU3OEBnomweMD mjiOZ4DS6Dgu83hYZPP

[JADO75]

Very good haha

[sms316]

No, I'm pretty sure blokes (not me) still find him attractive. Pretty sure he'd like a bloke with a broomstick too I'm pretty sure Lubin still gets movement.

[rubin]

or not.

[TheNuclearOne]

The latest convert to long

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8663/7328249a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/7328249a.jpg/)

[IamViva]

hypocrite

[Shadesy]

In b4 SMS and Dave_1

2 Major Winners now...Will be more!

[sms316]

Yep. I wonder if Webb Simpson would even have a Tour card if he had to putt properly. Now he is another major winner with an asterisk next to his name.

[TheTrueReview]

Yep. I wonder if Webb Simpson would even have a Tour card if he had to putt properly. Now he is another major winner with an asterisk next to his name.

Only in your book. Westwood, Mickelson and Garcia have all tried and abandoned the belly putter. There are others who have done so. It's not the silver bullet that your fanatical argument asserts. From "cheat sticks" to "poof sticks", build a bridge. Seriously.

[sms316]

Only in your book. Westwood, Mickelson and Garcia have all tried and abandoned the belly putter. There are others who have done so. It's not the silver bullet that your fanatical argument asserts. From "cheat sticks" to "poof sticks", build a bridge. Seriously.Do you even know what my argument against them is? For the umpteenth time they help people who can't putt properly. People who can putt properly gain no advantage. Therefore they are a crutch for the less skilled. I think you are thinking about "poof woods" btw - aka hybrids.

[Webster]

Only in your book.

Incorrect.

[sms316]

TTR - what is your argument for them?

[timah!]

Incorrect.

+1

[mike]

build a bridge. Seriously.+1

[markTHEblake]

For the umpteenth time they help people who can't putt properly. People who can putt properly gain no advantage.
I cant putt properly and they don't help me - I think they are harder to use. I have been thinking of putting in a bid for Timahs pool cue, or is there another way I can cheat?

[timah!]

I cant putt properly and they don't help me - I think they are harder to use. I have been thinking of putting in a bid for Timahs pool cue, or is there another way I can cheat?

Special price for you!

[KristianJ]

I have been thinking of putting in a bid for Timahs pool cue

To use as a jousting stick when riding on motorised carts?

[Dotty]

To use as a jousting stick when riding on motorised carts?
How much does he want for the jousting sticks?

[mudrat]

Tell him he's dreaming!!!

[Hooker]

Yep. I wonder if Webb Simpson would even have a Tour card if he had to putt properly. Now he is another major winner with an asterisk next to his name.

No asterisk on official records of winners using a long putter of majors mate , can you please post a link where there is an asterisk next to a major winners name due to using a long putter, no, it's in your and your mates heads who won't accept the fact that long putters are now part of the game. Accept it and shut the ---- up about it.

[sms316]

No asterisk on official records of winners using a long putter of majors mate , can you please post a link where there is an asterisk next to a major winners name due to using a long putter, no, it's in your and your mates heads who won't accept the fact that long putters are now part of the game. Accept it and shut the ---- up about it. No. The R&A ****ed up and only people power will fix it. Do you use one?

[timah!]

It sounds like it SMS...very defensive, almost like overcompensation...

[paulyboy]

This thread STILL going on?

[TheTrueReview]

This thread STILL going on? Like a weed.

[jaybam]

I think we should ban left handed golfers as well while we are at it hey pie man.

[sms316]

Like a weed. Instead of coming into this thread and moaning, how about answering this question that was posed earlier?
TTR - what is your argument for them?

[timah!]

Instead of coming into this thread and moaning, how about answering this question that was posed earlier?

It gets his post count up.

[mudrat]

Blight on the game, sooner they ban them the better.

[rowey]

So do we ban 445 & 460 Driver heads, because they have a bigger face than older drivers. Do we complain about cavity back, muscle back irons, which most ppl these days play, plus hybrids because they are easier to hit than 3 & 4 irons.

I use a 39 inch putter, but dont anchor it, so will they be banned also. I don't know what the problem is, we still have to get the ball in the hole dont we.

[Hooker]

No. The R&A ****ed up and only people power will fix it. Do you use one?

Now , who the ---- gives a ---- if I use one , stupid question to a mug golfer like me . What matters is we have just had a Major played on one of the toughest golf courses on tour and a player won using a long putter. Plus 1 to win , now hell ,you and I can agree that's one hell of a tough golf course .

Now let us all applaud the winner of the 2012 US open winning on a tough as hell golf course , with whatever putter he used and no asterisk next to his name .

[markTHEblake]

All golfers over 75kg should be banned, because of the unfair advantage they get.

[WBennett]

So Belly putter = tiny weiner?

[mike]

SMS, what is your gripe? Their use by professionals or their use across the board?

[WBennett]

Problem for sms is that his belly hangs so low a 33 inch putter is a belly putter

[markTHEblake]

Same for mike, except his 33" incher reaches his chin

[LarryLong]

I don't think calling the guy who wins a cheat helps the situation. You can hardly blame him for using the legal equipment of the day to his advantage.

Take aim at the governing body who allowed them in the first place, and won't ban them now because the equipment companies run the show.

Or join these guys - http://traditionalgolfsociety.com/ - maybe a bit nutty, but I do like their rules.

[Steve57]

Blight on the game, sooner they ban them the better.

+1000!

[mike]

Do you even know what my argument against them is? For the umpteenth time they help people who can't putt properly. People who can putt properly gain no advantage. Therefore they are a crutch for the less skilled. So ...

If I miss lots of short putts because of crappy alignment and rectify this by using a 2 ball putter, is that cheating?

If I putt side saddle am I cheating?

What about the cross hand grip? Or any other crazy grip for that matter?

What if I can't putt with a putter at all and putt with a wedge instead? (please don't read too much into that, it's just an example)

I just don't get the anti-belly debate.

[Johnny Canuck]

SMS, I have been struggling with my short putts lately and can nail them with a belly putter.

However, I am much better on longer putts with the normal putter.

Is it only half ghey if I carry both putters and drop a wedge?

[dave1]

Weights in drivers - should we ban this? Learn to shape it!

Now 2 majors with long putters.

Ban em

..I dont know ..I dont use one and I wont play a major. I really dont care if a bloke in my group uses one either.

[sms316]

SMS, what is your gripe? Their use by professionals or their use across the board? Everyone. I'm still to hear an argument for them apart from taking frustration out of the game for people with the yips (which I don't buy). I'm sure that TTR will chime in soon and tell us all why they are a good thing.

[sms316]

So ...If I miss lots of short putts because of crappy alignment and rectify this by using a 2 ball putter, is that cheating?If I putt side saddle am I cheating?What about the cross hand grip? Or any other crazy grip for that matter?What if I can't putt with a putter at all and putt with a wedge instead? (please don't read too much into that, it's just an example)I just don't get the anti-belly debate.Every example you list above required the player to make a free stroke and deal with any nerves that may exist in the hands. Putters which have a fulcrum do not.

[idgolfguy]

So ...If I miss lots of short putts because of crappy alignment and rectify this by using a 2 ball putter, is that cheating?If I putt side saddle am I cheating?What about the cross hand grip? Or any other crazy grip for that matter?What if I can't putt with a putter at all and putt with a wedge instead? (please don't read too much into that, it's just an example)I just don't get the anti-belly debate.Is side-saddle illegal?

[Johnny Canuck]

No it is not. Kj choi used it not long ago.

[Daves]

Is side-saddle illegal?


No it is not. Kj choi used it not long ago.

It is straddling the Putter, like Croquet, that is illegal from memory. Slamming Sam did it I think, and they banned it.

[Iain]

It is straddling the Putter, like Croquet, that is illegal from memory. Slamming Sam did it I think, and they banned it.

Yep, should've banned long putters when they first came onto the scene too.

[Johnny Canuck]

It is straddling the Putter, like Croquet, that is illegal from memory. Slamming Sam did it I think, and they banned it. Side saddling is different to the croquet shot. The ball is to the side, not the Snead-like between the legs shot.

[idgolfguy]

Open stance to the extreme.

[TheNuclearOne]

Here's a great putting article by Webb, some real rock solid fundamentals in this one

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2011-12/belly-putting-tips-webb-simpson

[dave1]

Should we ban graphite shafts...?

[Johnny Canuck]

Here's a great putting article by Webb, some real rock solid fundamentals in this onehttp://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2011-12/belly-putting-tips-webb-simpson Big hugs for Nuke.

[idgolfguy]

Hooray for anchoring in the belly button.

[Hooker]

Hooray for anchoring in the belly button.
What about our lady golfers , should they demand a Titt putter , where they anchor the putter firmly between their tits.

[Leon Phelps]

What about our lady golfers , should they demand a Titt putter , where they anchor the putter firmly between their tits.

It should be manditory

[Webster]

What about our lady golfers , should they demand a Titt putter , where they anchor the putter firmly between their tits.

Like Monty used to?

[Hooker]

Suppose this would also suit SMS if he ever took to a long putter.

[sms316]

Suppose this would also suit SMS if he ever took to a long putter. Since TTR is obviously going to avoid answering the question, can you tell us why you think that belly/long putters are a positive thing?

[Sydney Hacker]

Why should they have to justify to you something that is legal in the rules of golf?

[sms316]

Why should they have to justify to you something that is legal in the rules of golf? They are happy to snipe my opinion, despite me giving reasons for why I have formed it. It is quite reasonable to ask why they believe that I am out of order.

[TheTrueReview]

Partaking in the 'debate' in this thread is an exercise in futility. Polarised, heavily entrenched positions. Schoolboy insults. No prospect of conceding a reasoned, opposing argument. Save your energy boys. There would've been a greater chance of these blokes agreeing about something.

Well, at least they agreed on a non-aggression pact in 1939.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQM-8ZECkew-7byxQcIB3EANJ55vPbj_U1h7ufnSpmrAL4n3RVUhttp://wsws.org/images/2009nov/n06-bsa2-stal-200

[sms316]

Surely a former Golf Qld director would have the inside goss?

[Rodent]

Any arguments should be confined to whether or not they should be legal. Calling them cheat sticks is nonsensical. All players playing within the rules are on an equal footing.

[sms316]

Any arguments should be confined to whether or not they should be legal. Calling them cheat sticks is nonsensical. All players playing within the rules are on an equal footing. Sure they are legal. But they deserve the stigma IMO.

[Hooker]

Since TTR is obviously going to avoid answering the question, can you tell us why you think that belly/long putters are a positive thing?

Positive , Negative , who gives a ----. All that matters is now there are 2 major winners without an asterisk next to their names for using a long putter.

[sms316]

Positive , Negative , who gives a ----. All that matters is now there are 2 major winners without an asterisk next to their names for using a long putter. So you don't have any form of rational reasoning for their existence either. Both you and TTR are weak as piss. As soon as you are asked why you believe that they are a good thing you resort to posting off in a tangent.

[rowey]

What about our lady golfers , should they demand a Titt putter , where they anchor the putter firmly between their tits.

Most of the Lady's that play at my club, if they used a Belly Putter, their tits would get in the way of their hands when they grip the putter.

[sms316]

Most of the Lady's that play at my club, if they used a Belly Putter, their tits would get in the way of their hands when they grip the putter. Too many steroids in chickens these days.

[mudrat]

All that matters is that there is now 2 majors winners who can't putt unless they anchor a putter to their bodies.

[rowey]

So you don't have any form of rational reasoning for their existence either. Both you and TTR are weak as piss. As soon as you are asked why you believe that they are a good thing you resort to posting off in a tangent.

Hey they are LEGAL............so you should get over it

[Hooker]

So you don't have any form of rational reasoning for their existence either. Both you and TTR are weak as piss. As soon as you are asked why you believe that they are a good thing you resort to posting off in a tangent.

Posting off in a tangent .

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Who posted about asterisks next to Major winners.

[sms316]

Hey they are LEGAL............so you should get over it Ok Rowey. You have a bit of experience in the department of golf administration and I'm sure you will agree that golf administrators are open to scrutiny. Why do you think the R&A made the decision to allow belly/long putters?

[Webster]

Be strong SMS, your moral strength will be rewarded. We believe in you. When judgement days arrives all the long and belly putter users, and those who defend them will be banished to the firey cauldrons of Hell.

[rowey]

SMS I have been involved with some tossers on committe's in my area, I wouldn't call them administrators......But I could tell all some home truths.....

R&A allowing the Belly Putter............were they ever ILLEGAL.............if they wern't they didn't have to make any decisions

[sms316]

SMS I have been involved with some tossers on committe's in my area, I wouldn't call them administrators......But I could tell all some home truths.....R&A allowing the Belly Putter............were they ever ILLEGAL.............if they wern't they didn't have to make any decisions Every club has to be a approved by the R&A before being permitted for play.

[rowey]

Every club has to be a approved by the R&A before being permitted for play.

Well if you find it so much of a drama, why don't you contact them & ask them why they have APPROVED a club of this type.

[Hooker]

Be strong SMS, your moral strength will be rewarded. We believe in you. When judgement days arrives all the long and belly putter users, and those who defend them will be banished to the firey cauldrons of Hell.

Didn't know you was a Muslim , that's what happens to all non believers according to Islam , and I and many like me believe that long putters are a good thing and believe in them.

[markTHEblake]

Since TTR is obviously going to avoid answering the question, can you tell us why you think that belly/long putters are a positive thing?

maybe because you think the users of long putters are cheats, that there must be an advantage in using them.

[Webster]

Didn't know you was a Muslim , that's what happens to all non believers according to Islam , and I and many like me believe that long putters are a good thing and believe in them.

Make sure you pack your summer pajamas, it will be hot down there.

[mike]

Hey Shaun, you should write to the R and A and cc a copy to the USGA and ask them why. We don't know why they were approved and I don't think any of us actually give a flying fk.

If we ever get to have a game of golf together I'm gonna borrow someone's belly putter to use just to piss you off.

[sms316]

If we ever get to have a game of golf together I'm gonna borrow someone's belly putter to use just to piss you off. Sounds good. I'll be in a cart.

[mike]

That's just nasty.

[Webster]

Sounds good. I'll be in a cart.

Use your iPhone for the yardages?

[Peter]

The arguments appear to be:

For - it's the rules so they should be allowed.

Against - being legal doesn't make it right. You shouldn't be able to anchor the putter against your body.

[sms316]

Use your iPhone for the yardages? Only if it isn't in a comp, so then results will be insignificant anyway.

[sms316]

The arguments appear to be:For - it's the rules so they should be allowed.Against - being legal doesn't make it right. You shouldn't be able to anchor the putter against your body. Pretty much. Nobody can justify why it was ever allowed.

[Yossarian]

I like SMS point. Graphite gives everyone an advantage yeah? IBF would still snap hook full body yip a 460 cc driver.

Whereas a belly putter does help someone with the yips, making it an unlevel( is that a word) playing field.

[mike]

Unlevel isn't a word.

[markTHEblake]

Pretty much. Nobody can justify why it was ever allowed.

Was it ever allowed?

The limit for length of a golf club is 48"

[Dotty]

They were allowed because the first well known player to use one was Sam Torrance.

Torrance is Scottish. The R & A are based in Scotland.

[InsaltZ]

My view 1. Missed putt = bad
2. Belly putter = good
I can't get off the tee to save myself so if I save some shots at the other end of the hole it all evens up.

[sms316]

Posting off in a tangent .Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Who posted about asterisks next to Major winners. Belly putter users who have won majors have similar credibility to Murali holding the test cricket wicket taking record. It might be true on paper, but many believe that the administrators stuffed up and refuse to acknowledge it as a true achievement.

[Veefore]

The thing I find most incredible about long putters, whether they be belly or broomstick is how emotionally invested some people become in something that they don't own, don't use and really have no use for.
It's like people can't help themselves from interfering in other peoples lives.

"I DON'T LIKE IT SO NEITHER SHOULD YOU!"

It's bad enough when governments and do-gooder groups keep interfering in things that really don't concern them. Like breast feeding. Somebody does it and annoys everyone else by telling them that they should do it too.

As I told a Mormon door knocker once, everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs, but that entitlement doesn't extend to ramming that opinion down my throat.

[Yossarian]

Exactly Veefore, all these pro belly putter people are ramming their opinions down our throat and I won't stand for it anymore.

[markTHEblake]

Veefore, you have rammed that opinion down our throat.

[ParkRoyal]

I'm with sms, jack etc on them being a blight on the game, that they should never have been allowed and that the powers that be should be making a move to remove them.

What's the best way to remove them? Look at recent examples to equipment rules, grooves and driver 'face' technology.
Set the limits (length), then set a timeframe, lets say 2 years for the removal from pro events and another 2 from amatuer golf.
Possibly set exceptions, for a long time you needed a medical exemption to play in a cart and in some places you still do, so you could possibly except players on 'senior' tours who already play the long stick and similar for amatuer play, if you have physical issues that prevent you from normal putting then that may be allowed.

Its not hard, they have already done similar changes, just make it happen.

[Dotty]

Why not ban them immediately in handicap events?

My handicap already takes into account that I can't hit a ball very far. Benno/Rubin's handicap reflects that they can't hit many fairways.

Just let the crap putters play off the handicap that reflects their ability.

:)

ps. And if their putting improves and they start winning, we can call them burglars.

[Johnny Canuck]

I am afraid of things being rammed down Yoss' throat.

[Hooker]

I'm with sms, jack etc on them being a blight on the game, that they should never have been allowed and that the powers that be should be making a move to remove them.

What's the best way to remove them? Look at recent examples to equipment rules, grooves and driver 'face' technology.
Set the limits (length), then set a timeframe, lets say 2 years for the removal from pro events and another 2 from amatuer golf.
Possibly set exceptions, for a long time you needed a medical exemption to play in a cart and in some places you still do, so you could possibly except players on 'senior' tours who already play the long stick and similar for amatuer play, if you have physical issues that prevent you from normal putting then that may be allowed.

Its not hard, they have already done similar changes, just make it happen.

Yes , well that's your and others opinion. But opinions are like arseholes , everybody's got one.

[Jarro]

Who really cares anyway ...... let 'em use them.

[popper81]

This whole thread is a whine fest....

Why can't all players in the game be allowed to play to the best of their abilities within the rules of golf..... I own a broomy at present, and if you can putt better with a broomy, than with a short putter, good luck to you.

[Yossarian]

Yes , well that's your and others opinion. But opinions are like arseholes , everybody's got one.

Constructive stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

[mike]

Hey Shaun, I think I've asked you this before but can't remember your response so I'll try again.

Given your outspokenness with regards to belly putters giving some golfers an advantage, why is it that you condone the use of motorised carts in competition golf?

Cheers

mike

[mike]

SMS I have been involved with some tossers on committe's in my area, I wouldn't call them administrators......But I could tell all some home truths.....

Rowey, anybody I might know?

PM will do.

[sms316]

Hey Shaun, I think I've asked you this before but can't remember your response so I'll try again.Given your outspokenness with regards to belly putters giving some golfers an advantage, why is it that you condone the use of motorised carts in competition golf?CheersmikeI condone it in basic club competition only. They have no place in pennant, club champs or anything above that. Ultimately though, carts are a condition of play rather than a rule.

[mike]

Fair enough.

[mike]

So belly putters should be ok as long as they're not used in pennant, club champs etc.

[sms316]

So belly putters should be ok as long as they're not used in pennant, club champs etc. I like your way of thinking, but every level of golfer has to play by the same set of rules. So the choice is either let everyone use them or ban them at every level. I think my preference is pretty clear.

[mike]

Do you think they'll ever be banned?

For your sake I hope they are now.

[just]

Constructive stuff.
Indeed, much like this:

Whereas a belly putter does help someone with the yips, making it an unlevel( is that a word) playing field.
And your evidence for this is? And the evidence that it gives anyone an advantage? You know, like scientific evidence, not just opinion. Or is this just "the vibe", or "that rug really tied the room together" type feeling you have.

[Dotty]

It's the vibe. Same as Holden vs Ford. Or global warming.

[Jarro]

It's the vibe. Same as Holden vs Ford. Or global warming.

Thought so :roll:

[Rodent]

What if blokes with the yips pop a valium before play? Is it cheating to use anti-anxiety medication?

[sms316]

What if blokes with the yips pop a valium before play? Is it cheating to use anti-anxiety medication? Of course it is cheating.

[sms316]

Indeed, much like this: And your evidence for this is? And the evidence that it gives anyone an advantage? You know, like scientific evidence, not just opinion. Or is this just "the vibe", or "that rug really tied the room together" type feeling you have. Advantage? No. Ability to make up for lack of ability through a means which can hardly be called a stroke? Absolutely.

[TheTrueReview]

This whole thread is a whine fest....


Why can't all players in the game be allowed to play to the best of their abilities within the rules of golf..... I own a broomy at present, and if you can putt better with a broomy, than with a short putter, good luck to you.

Because it's important to seek the approval of others on a daily basis rather than getting on with life. ;)



And your evidence for this is? And the evidence ... not just opinion.

:lol:

[Yossarian]

Sorry do you have some evidence as well TTR?

just,

Having picked up and stroked a few bellies and broomys I feel it is almost impossible to yip it with a wrist breaking kind of motion.

I also sure I've read/seen interviews with golfing experts attesting to such.

I could go looking for them but you have the googles as well. :)

[Jarro]

How does it roll on the longer putts Yoss ?

Or do you hit it to less than 10 feet every time ;)

[Yossarian]

I did only mean on the shorter putts.

[rowey]

Rowey, anybody I might know?

PM will do.

Possibly Mike

[Hooker]

Advantage? No. Ability to make up for lack of ability through a means which can hardly be called a stroke? Absolutely.

Putting using as long putter not being a stroke ????? , hardly .

You want to look at the rules of golf, indeed it is a stroke.

Lack of ability ????? . What about the lack of ability of high handicappers using blade irons.

What about we ban cavity irons.

Lack of ability ????? . Not able to shape the driver for a draw and a fade .

What about we ban 460cc drivers that have weight adjustments.

Lack of ability ????? . not able to hit good wedges .

What about we ban golf balls that spin.

Wake up mate.

[rowey]

Hooker, I think I posted something along the same lines previously.

Have still seen players who use Broom & Belly putters miss short ones...........

[Hooker]

Hooker, I think I posted something along the same lines previously.

Have still seen players who use Broom & Belly putters miss short ones...........

Tell me about it , last Sunday I used a broomstick and fairdinkum missed 2 putts under 2 foot on the back nine to get beaten on a count back .