Suicide bomber controversy (Graphic Images)- what do you think?

[TheTrueReview]

There's a developing shyte storm in the US media about some 2 year old photos that have surfaced showing US military holding up bits & pieces of suicide bombers. The photos weren't intended for public consumption but one person has released them.

Given that the said miscreant(s) attempted to vaporise others (and expected their own vaporisation) I wouldn't have thought that it would've mattered what happened to the left overs. Maybe I'm missing something. What do you think?

http://www.indiatvnews.com/upload/news/neweditor/Image/2012/maininternational/apr/troop1.jpghttp://www.indiatvnews.com/upload/news/maininternational/Outrage_As_US_S7527.jpg

[sms316]

It's amazing how the photos always manage to get out. Given the job those blokes do, a minute of comic relief is fair game.

[Hawkers2008]

you think they would know better to take or even pose in these.

given the sensitivities you can imagine that even posing in one would likely land you in deep shit.

[just]

Maybe I'm missing something. What do you think?
Yes you are.

[Tongueboy]

why stoop to that level?

[paulyboy]

Thanks so much for posting this while I'm eating my tea.
Seriously don't need it.
Whoever would have thought posing in these pics was even remotely a good idea, public consumption or not, has rocks in their heads.
Inappropriate here too.

[TheTrueReview]

you think they would know better to take or even pose in these.

given the sensitivities you an imagine that even posing in one would likely land you in deep shit.

Quite possibly. But I think there's a line between photos of inappropriate acts with vanquished fighter's bodies (killed in battle) and the left overs of a suicide bomber. Not trying to be ghoulish but most times they're scraping up the bits with shovels. The bomber knew that he/she was going to be blown to smithereens. Surely there couldn't be an expectation of a 'dignified corpse' in those circumstances.

fn. Our troops are in Afghanistan. This is the stuff they have to contend with on a day to day basis. It's life Jim, as we know it.

[Hawkers2008]

Quite possibly. But I think there's a line between photos of inappropriate acts with vanquished fighter's bodies (killed in battle) and the left overs of a suicide bomber. Not trying to be ghoulish but most times they're scraping up the bits with shovels. The bomber knew that he/she was going to be blown to smithereens. Surely there couldn't be an expectation of a 'dignified corpse' in those circumstances.

There is a difference between taking evidentary type photos as opposed to gloating/showing off/whatever type ones. This kind of behavior just lowers these guys to the level of the terrorists.

These guys are dills who are making things even less safe for their comrades.

[Webster]

This kind of behavior just lowers these guys to the level of the terrorists.

No it doesn't. Not even remotely close. The scumbag with the bomb strapped to himself with the intent to kill innocent people forfeits all rights to dignity and respect. I wouldn't care if they dragged the corpses around on the back of a truck and then fed them to the pigs. The terrorists deserve nothing better than that.

[Johnny Canuck]

Amen.

[KristianJ]

Graphic content warning in the thread title could be handy.

[Eldrick]

Graphic content warning in the thread title could be handy.

Ditto

[TheTrueReview]

Graphic content warning in the thread title could be handy.

What's the graphic content? A dead body. A pair of legs. The thread was about suicide bombers. The implication about the content was there in the thread title.

Perhaps I've been desensitised from a former life due to the amount of cadavers I've seen. No doubt these soldiers have too. Right now Aussie diggers are on patrol facing potential attack by suicide bombers or by IEDs. It's life, not a drill. Some of the diggers being remembered this weekend met their fate in Afghanistan.

[TheNuclearOne]

No it doesn't. Not even remotely close. The scumbag with the bomb strapped to himself with the intent to kill innocent people forfeits all rights to dignity and respect. I wouldn't care if they dragged the corpses around on the back of a truck and then fed them to the pigs. The terrorists deserve nothing better than that.

Bravo. Perhaps this would tarnish the whole glam value for them and make some think twice.

[LarryLong]

Graphic content warning in the thread title could be handy.

+1

I think it's very distressing, and even if the photos are newsworthy they shouldn't be publishing them.

I can only feel deep sadness for the suicide bombers. They're human, and the world needs to work out why so many people can be full of so much anger, frustration and hatred, and try to do something about that.

[Hamo84]

No it doesn't. Not even remotely close. The scumbag with the bomb strapped to himself with the intent to kill innocent people forfeits all rights to dignity and respect. I wouldn't care if they dragged the corpses around on the back of a truck and then fed them to the pigs. The terrorists deserve nothing better than that.

Well said, couldn't agree more

[dave1]

OK I dont like the photos for a couple of reasons

1 Its going to piss the radicals off even more - is that what we want?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-19/taliban-vow-revenge-over-afghan-photo-scandal/3961178

2 imagine if it was the other away around (American pics) - the yanks and other countries would be peeved and seeking revenge which oddly is what the Taliban will do

they wont target USA they will do another Bali or somewhere else - is that what we want?

what does it all achieve, its easy to say they are terrorists - um the people that did 911 bombing were American based Saudis (most of them) most of them were not from Afghanistan or Iraq.

Agreey with larrylong said

we need to work out why these people are so peeved - just declaring war hasnt worked.

[markTHEblake]

photos of peices of meat, who cares! :-)

[TheTrueReview]

... imagine if it was the other away around (American pics) - the yanks and other countries would be peeved and seeking revenge ...

Err ... probably not. In fact the reverse effect is usually true with Western nations.

Remember the scenes of the dead crew of this Blackhawk being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu in 1993? The Americans were gone from Somalia within months. The good folk back in the US don't like scenes of their boys being tortured or their bodies being desecrated.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/content/articles/1126/images/boy_on_BH.jpg

Btw, the photos of the dead helicopter crew are still all over the net. I've refrained from posting them. Some might be having tea.

[PerryGroves]

we need to work out why these people are so peeved - just declaring war hasnt worked.

NO, you fall into your usual trap of trying to apply logic to an illogical act.

On the basis that some percentage of the world are genuine ****wits, why do I need to try and find a motive?

[Ned]

Religion or beliefs are the basis for these types of actions, whether its in Afghanistan, Czechoslovakia, Northern Ireland, Middle East etc currently and historically.

Back in the 80's my sister was flight crew for a Middle East Airline, they had a corporate operation that flew High profiles such as politicians, Celebs etc and one in particular, Yasar Arafat.

She said that it wasn't the Americans or the Israelis that were a concern for being around him, it was his own security staff/followers, they had a belief and an upbringing that meant if he wanted them to kill themselves they would do so without hesitation or question for the "cause".

She constantly worried that if one of them tripped over they would set off a weapon or explosives they were carrying let alone react to some things.

They have a belief, be it from tradition or "brain washing" and it will never change.

For me, our Diggers have been doing what is traditionally done by western nations, trying to help and for that they face a constant fear of IED, Snipers, Rogue Afghan Army and unknown suicide bombers from woman, kids and even the elderly.

Look at the DFAT guy who has just returned from being seriously injured in a Suicide attack, a civilian, not armed forces.

Its not just the ISAF staff, they are targeting western anyone.

Yet the Afghan Govt demands billions of dollars etc but condemn these minority idiot acts (and they are actions of a few).

There is no answer (good, bad or other wise) with these situations, yet we and a number of countries are there trying to make a difference, for that ISAF and support agencies are constantly in harms way.

[Eag's]

No it doesn't. Not even remotely close. The scumbag with the bomb strapped to himself with the intent to kill innocent people forfeits all rights to dignity and respect. I wouldn't care if they dragged the corpses around on the back of a truck and then fed them to the pigs. The terrorists deserve nothing better than that.

Spot on Jack.

[just]

No it doesn't. Not even remotely close. The scumbag with the bomb strapped to himself with the intent to kill innocent people forfeits all rights to dignity and respect. I wouldn't care if they dragged the corpses around on the back of a truck and then fed them to the pigs. The terrorists deserve nothing better than that.
Load of toss Jack.

[IamViva]

Load of toss Jack.
seems like its an opinion shared by many, ask any suicide bombing victims family and see what they have to say

[matty]

While it probably wasn't ideal the pics got out I don't blame the troops. The bomber tried to kill them. They are in an environment many of us could not imagine. It's not reality. They're not sitting peacefully at home. It's a way of dealing with it. I essence I agree with Jack. War's war.

[Dotty]

Err ... probably not. In fact the reverse effect is usually true with Western nations.

Remember the scenes of the dead crew of this Blackhawk being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu in 1993? The Americans were gone from Somalia within months. The good folk back in the US don't like scenes of their boys being tortured or their bodies being desecrated.



Btw, the photos of the dead helicopter crew are still all over the net. I've refrained from posting them. Some might be having tea.
+1. It gets back to 'the things that annoy us, are things we do ourselves'.

And we shouldn't forget the old 'two wrongs don't make a right'.

ps. Thanks for giving the option of finding actual photos on the net. Make it an active choice, whether the reader wants to see the details to their heart's content.

[just]

seems like its an opinion shared by many
And that makes it right?


While it probably wasn't ideal the pics got out I don't blame the troops. The bomber tried to kill them. They are in an environment many of us could not imagine. It's not reality. They're not sitting peacefully at home. It's a way of dealing with it. I essence I agree with Jack. War's war.
You get to the heart of the matter, most of you haven't served, so wouldn't have a clue. Leaving aside the moral issues, of which there are many, stupid shit like this makes it even more dangerous for the majority of troops who don't engage in this behaviour.

[KristianJ]

What's the graphic content? A dead body. A pair of legs. The thread was about suicide bombers. The implication about the content was there in the thread title. Perhaps I've been desensitised from a former life due to the amount of cadavers I've seen. No doubt these soldiers have too. Right now Aussie diggers are on patrol facing potential attack by suicide bombers or by IEDs. It's life, not a drill. Some of the diggers being remembered this weekend met their fate in Afghanistan. FWIW I'm not "offended" by the images per se...and I wasn't aware of the news story before I opened the thread so didn't know of the photos and the nature thereof.

[Webster]

Load of toss Jack.

I don't mind if you have a different opinion to me Just, but such rudeness is not necessary to get your point across.

You and dave1 are welcome to have the suicide bombers over for tea and biscuits to discuss the problems of the world. But don't be surprised if he/they want to leave their jackets on when the temperature is well above 30 degrees.

[dave1]

And that makes it right? You get to the heart of the matter, most of you haven't served, so wouldn't have a clue. Leaving aside the moral issues, of which there are many, stupid shit like this makes it even more dangerous for the majority of troops who don't engage in this behaviour. I agree why would you make a bunch of mad people even more angryIt serves no purpose in the conflict. The soldiers were just hooping it up so to speak.

[just]

I don't mind if you have a different opinion to me Just, but such rudeness is not necessary to get your point across.
Rude compared to your post? If this newly found sensitivity of yours is offended well then so be it.


You and dave1 are welcome to have the suicide bombers over for tea and biscuits to discuss the problems of the world. But don't be surprised if he/they want to leave their jackets on when the temperature is well above 30 degrees.
You completely missed the point, but not surprising given you hypocritical, shit stirring ways.

[Webster]

Your personal attacks are unwelcome here Just, as is your trolling.

I completely understand your point. I just don't agree with it.

[matty]

You and dave1 are welcome to have the suicide bombers over for tea and biscuits to discuss the problems of the world.

First time I laughed out loud today. :lol:

[dave1]

Your personal attacks are unwelcome here Just, as is your trolling. I completely understand your point. I just don't agree with it. So you have a better idea?What spending millions a day to fight a war that no one will ever win.Great idea jack.

[markTHEblake]

So you reckon the Western nations should have just laid down?

[Johnny Canuck]

So you have a better idea?What spending millions a day to fight a war that no one will ever win.Great idea jack. Where did he say that , Dave?

[Zak]

No it doesn't. Not even remotely close. The scumbag with the bomb strapped to himself with the intent to kill innocent people forfeits all rights to dignity and respect. I wouldn't care if they dragged the corpses around on the back of a truck and then fed them to the pigs. The terrorists deserve nothing better than that.

I am an Australian born Lebanese Muslim who is married to a fourth generation Australian born English/Scot, who is atheist, with three Australian born children with multicultural heritage.

I celebrate all the Christian and Islamic festivals with my family as a family and raise my kids as Muslims until such time in their life they ar old enough to choose for themselves.

We do not eat any pork products and I drink occasionally, call me a hypocrite if you like, and my parents always raised us by treating everyone as equals first and foremost, we are not better than anyone and nobody is better than us.

Most of us here have never been to any of these countries in question let alone seen any of the horrible things that are happening there but for those that believe a "why" isn't appropriate or required please take the time to read the following:

http://freetarek.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/tareks-powerful-sentencing-statement/

This is not something I am following and this is the only thing I have read via a Facebook post so I do not have any answers for any questions.

The reason I have posted this link is wholly and solely in relation to a slight definition of what is a terrorist and what is the 'cause'...

People who get on a crowded bus and blow themselves up or hijack a plane and fly it into a building are just scum and don't deserve any respect because that is not the 'cause' in my opinion or from what I have been taught.

However walking into an armed forces camp and trying to blow up 20 soldiers because 'they' gang raped your mother, sister, daughter etc is something that most of us would do if that was the only weapon we had to defend ourselves against terrorist.

I use the term 'they' as this is the generalisation that a lot of people are subjected to, especially Muslims, because of a minority like these rogue soldiers who tarnish the name and reputation of the majority who are truly brave and dedicated to what they do and doing it well.

When I first came to Perth and started my first job the mechanic on finding out I was Muslim turned pale and said your not going to blow us up or kill us are you, that's what 'they' do right........

That would be like saying that a catholic is going to diddle with a kid right........

All this generalisation and stunts only insight more anger and rage to whoever is the intended target and 'they' whoever 'they' are do not need any extra fuel...

It's like 'who would you like to punch in the face' - Allah or even better Mohamed - who says that crap, what do you think everyone finds it amusing or do you think that nobody will be offended or even better still do you think that there are no Muslims that play or are members of your club that may see it.....

The truth is beautiful but if everyone takes a second to think about what they are going to say or write then maybe we could have avoided/avoid some BS during our time....

Just my six pence worth.....

Peace out and lots of love people

[Hux]

What's the graphic content? A dead body. A pair of legs. The thread was about suicide bombers. The implication about the content was there in the thread title.

Perhaps I've been desensitised from a former life due to the amount of cadavers I've seen. No doubt these soldiers have too. Right now Aussie diggers are on patrol facing potential attack by suicide bombers or by IEDs. It's life, not a drill. Some of the diggers being remembered this weekend met their fate in Afghanistan.

Yes you have been desensitized. Anyone exposed to death and maiming on a regular basis gets desensitized to it. How else could you get through it. Unfortunately you are in the minority group with a bunch of soldiers and ES workers. You have also faced an angry man and remember what its like with the massive dump of adrenaline and the time it takes to get things back on an even keel and that is easier in that normality and home is only around the corner its not a constant.

The Chief of the Defence and Chief or Army have both regularly said that Australians need to be very aware that we as a country will pay a price for the current operations for generations. And that is of course the PTSD to the soldiers who have been deployed. Put it in perspective - we have been in Afghanistan longer than we were in Vietnam.

Are the guys posing in the pic just another example of what that price is from? I say yes - if they have just had a close call with a suicide bomber those guys are not the ones their families know.

Does everyone here understand why soldiers who have been in real wars come back and struggle to readjust?

I won't judge them for the pictures because I bet that 2 years on they get no laughs from it, see no humour and is something they probably dont need to be reminded about.

[dave1]

So you reckon the Western nations should have just laid down? Shouldn't have gone in the first place

[dave1]

I am an Australian born Lebanese Muslim who is married to a fourth generation Australian born English/Scot, who is atheist, with three Australian born children with multicultural heritage.

I celebrate all the Christian and Islamic festivals with my family as a family and raise my kids as Muslims until such time in their life they ar old enough to choose for themselves.

We do not eat any pork products and I drink occasionally, call me a hypocrite if you like, and my parents always raised us by treating everyone as equals first and foremost, we are not better than anyone and nobody is better than us.

Most of us here have never been to any of these countries in question let alone seen any of the horrible things that are happening there but for those that believe a "why" isn't appropriate or required please take the time to read the following:

http://freetarek.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/tareks-powerful-sentencing-statement/

This is not something I am following and this is the only thing I have read via a Facebook post so I do not have any answers for any questions.

The reason I have posted this link is wholly and solely in relation to a slight definition of what is a terrorist and what is the 'cause'...

People who get on a crowded bus and blow themselves up or hijack a plane and fly it into a building are just scum and don't deserve any respect because that is not the 'cause' in my opinion or from what I have been taught.

However walking into an armed forces camp and trying to blow up 20 soldiers because 'they' gang raped your mother, sister, daughter etc is something that most of us would do if that was the only weapon we had to defend ourselves against terrorist.

I use the term 'they' as this is the generalisation that a lot of people are subjected to, especially Muslims, because of a minority like these rogue soldiers who tarnish the name and reputation of the majority who are truly brave and dedicated to what they do and doing it well.

When I first came to Perth and started my first job the mechanic on finding out I was Muslim turned pale and said your not going to blow us up or kill us are you, that's what 'they' do right........

That would be like saying that a catholic is going to diddle with a kid right........

All this generalisation and stunts only insight more anger and rage to whoever is the intended target and 'they' whoever 'they' are do not need any extra fuel...

It's like 'who would you like to punch in the face' - Allah or even better Mohamed - who says that crap, what do you think everyone finds it amusing or do you think that nobody will be offended or even better still do you think that there are no Muslims that play or are members of your club that may see it.....

The truth is beautiful but if everyone takes a second to think about what they are going to say or write then maybe we could have avoided/avoid some BS during our time....

Just my six pence worth.....

Peace out and lots of love people

great post


what peeves me is that America trys the solves the worlds problems by one means only (a bigger weopon than youre holding)

they have been doing for ages - when will the penny drop?

we need to let other countries work out there own problems.

yes soldiers who are under huge amounts of stress do this as a way of a light moment - they are not bad people are thew american soldiers - call me hippie or whatever you want. My Dad went to Vietnam - he said war is stupid and waste of time and money

the people that attacked the the USA with planes where mostly Saudis living in the USA

The people that did the train bombings and london underground - they were not all from Iraq!!

Its like the yanks think "Oh its the middle east no one will check the map"!! do the yanks think we are stupid?

How come Saudi Arabia never gets mentioned in any of this....OIL!! why wasnt Saudi Arabia invaded after 9/11

the yanks (government not the peole) love a war lets be honest - any chance they get to barge in they take it

rant over

[Ned]

great post


what peeves me is that America trys the solves the worlds problems by one means only (a bigger weopon than youre holding)

they have been doing for ages - when will the penny drop?

we need to let other countries work out there own problems.

yes soldiers who are under huge amounts of stress do this as a way of a light moment - they are not bad people are thew american soldiers - call me hippie or whatever you want. My Dad went to Vietnam - he said war is stupid and waste of time and money

the people that attacked the the USA with planes where mostly Saudis living in the USA

The people that did the train bombings and london underground - they were not all from Iraq!!

Its like the yanks think "Oh its the middle east no one will check the map"!! do the yanks think we are stupid?

How come Saudi Arabia never gets mentioned in any of this....OIL!! why wasnt Saudi Arabia invaded after 9/11

the yanks (government not the peole) love a war lets be honest - any chance they get to barge in they take it

rant over

You a Policy Advisor / Consultant for a Think Tank Dave ?

[dc68]

I thank god for America. If it wasn't for them we wouldn't have the world as we know it.

[Zak]

America is an opportunistic player in the whole war game.

They only take on people that are weaker and that have a reward for themselves ie gold, oil, money or drugs.

The reason they won't invade Saudi is because they already have agreements there and get what they want.

Iraq was a war on... I can't remember.... But they walked away with control of the oil, looted and took millions of us dollars and gold and left the country in shambles.... Hey that's right it was to rid Iraq of its dictator and murderer with piss poor weak army and arms.

Afghanistan was a war on terror and retaliation for 9/11, fair enough if the terrorist were afghans, and to catch bin Laden, a personal family friend of the Bush family and the two families are tied financially, which took forever but again walked away with massive quantities of opium against a country that has not means to defend itself even if they wanted to.

Why didn't the Americans get involved in the lebanese civil war that went for years and still flares up...... No reward.

Why didn't the Americans get involved in the genocide attempts in Rwanda or some of these other African states where genocide was an issue....... No reward

Why don't the Americans take on Pakistan when according to the world it is the training ground for bin ladens hench men...... Because they don't have to balls oh and no reward

Why won't they get involved in Syria where there is and always has been oppression and now there is a wiping out of any objectors to the current dictator, what is the difference between him and sadam Hussein, sadam killed the group of Muslims that were a different sect to him bashar is killing his own kind....... Because they know they are up against a super power with a substantial armed forces and arms and risk getting smoked oh and no reward.

I hope and pray for the place I was born, my kids were born and the place we cherish and call home never has an issue with any group or country that has no 'reward' for the Americans because I strongly believe they would not back us.

Just for the record if this was ever to happen even against Lebanon where my parents were born and bred and where I have hundreds of family members I would stand and fight to protect us, Australians, against them and whoever else.

I am also not anti american as I love the NBA, drink coke, wear Nike a lot and even dream of going there one day but I just don't support their military tactics, I just don't think we should have ever gone there to take on an unknown enemy for no real justified reason.

Thanks again.

[Hux]

Okay Zak I respect your view but from another perspective. I had a long and interesting conversation with a taxi driver about 18months ago. He was decidedly asian in appearance and I asked where he was from. Knock me over he says Afghanistan.
Being a friendly chap I thought he wouldn't mind me digging into it. And commented that I had thought he looked more asian to me. He then with great pride explains he is Huzarri which is the 3rd largest ethnic group in Afghanistan.
I an attempt at empathy I commented that it seems very dangerous there now. He then proceeded to explain that for his people as they are the opposite brand of the Muslim faith to the Taliban it was actually much safer now and that he supported the efforts to throw out the Taliban. He had lost 3 brothers murdered by the Taliban and had come out to Aus as an illegal immigrant aka on a boat and then got his family out after he got refugee status.
He was a teacher in Afghanistan but drives a taxi here and had bought himself a house at Mt Gravatt and proudly showed me a letter from the local MP congratulating his daughter for achieving academic results in the top 2% in the State.

Opened my eyes and mind a lot - that probably 80% of illegal immigrants have a similar story to him. That he was grateful to Australia and that it was giving his family a life they had been denied in their own country. And that the alternative to the Taliban regardless of the motives of America is far better than what they had.

BTW HOw would be all feel if the USA had continued on with their Isolationist Policies of the mid war period - right up to the door being knocked on in Dec 41. Do you honestly think the Commonwealth could have resisted Hitler without these ever so bad americans? It was them stepping away from that policy and being thrust into WW2 that initiated the position of the USA as IMHO the only tue world military power of the past 60 years.

[Daves]

History obviously isn't/wasn't a popular subject amongst (a lot of) Ozgolfers. I guess it helps if you were actually around (and coherent) when some of these things happened/started!

[Yossarian]

I think Hux means resisting Japan.

[Daves]

I think Hux means resisting Japan.

I wasn't referring to Hux.

[Hux]

I think Hux means resisting Japan.

No I meant Europe.
The European theatre was the predominant issue, Germany was the primary threat to the Commonwealth and the USSR would not have gotten anywhere if there had been a single front.

Japan never had a chance against the USA. They took an opportunistic tilt and failed quickly - they were already on the back foot by the end of 1942.

I have actually read quite widely on the interwar and post war periods. I could bore you to tears on the policy shift in 1950 that ultimately lead to the American involvement in Indo China.

[Yossarian]

Topics for another thread perhaps.

[TheTrueReview]

History obviously isn't/wasn't a popular subject amongst (a lot of) Ozgolfers. I guess it helps if you were actually around (and coherent) when some of these things happened/started!

History was thrust on Australians when the Japanese invaded PNG & when they bombed Darwin relentlessly. History also happened when a number of Aussies bit the dust in the twin towers.

Human nature hasn't changed since homo became erectus (no pun intended). If a person wants to understand current & future human behaviour, it's all there in the history books.


Topics for another thread perhaps.

Nope, I think this one's good enough.

[PeteyD]

I get tired of inane anti american rants about how they want to take over the world, are only interested in things when they have oil, gold etc.

[Ned]

I get tired of inane anti american rants about how they want to take over the world, are only interested in things when they have oil, gold etc.

Come on Pete, its true you know, cause they said so, cause there is proven fact that it actually happened, and that they have the sole rights for doing it, and no one else ever has or even been talked about doing it, just them dang Yanks!:wink:

:roll:

[PeteyD]

:oops: Fancy forgetting that

[Outcast]

Extremism in any form is intolerable and sadly; extremism exists in every religion, political, race group or, for that matter... any group

Nations go to war in pursuit of their own interests; I for one cannot think of a country invaded for the good of the nation invaded; Whilst we might dress many things up in being in pursuit of the greater good and in actual fact often a greater good is often actually achieved but, make no mistake.... wars are pursued in the interests of the nations involved, they do not represent the great fight between good and evil though we kid ourselves that they are. God is on all sides (and I am a practicing christian) depending on whom you talk to so each side clearly thinks it is on the side of good!!

Tolerance, understanding, compassion and a truly caring world where the government of each nation think in terms of the greater good of the world overall (including the nation they are about to invade) and not just 'how it might improve their own interests'. Novel thought... well it forms the true basis for the Bible, the Qu'oran (apologies if spelling is wrong), the Tora and pretty much every religious belief in the world. What corrupts it is personal interpretation...

Are wars justifiable; sometimes yes although often not for the reasons stated publicly; does defending the greater good sometimes require violence, unfortunately yes but, are these photo's 'gloating' over a dead enemy (whether you like his cause or his methods or not) acceptable NO!! they are not.

Life is about treating people with respect, love and caring for one another... If the world's populations practiced this with some conviction then the suicide bombers, the need for foreign troops in other countries and indeed the need for a defence/armed force might be negated. Sadly, the umpteen million years of human history says this will never happen.

Life should be respected at all costs.. whether you agree with suicide bombers being justified or not (and I don't) it is a human life and we should show some respect!

I normally don't post in threads like this (and some of you will know why that is) but, this one struck a chord with me. For the love of humanity... lets think about this issue people, deeply and ask ourselves whether or not this is truly acceptable! I for one do not think so and never will

[Zak]

My opinion is my opinion and I am not one who believes that my opinion is the correct opinion and nobody elses matters.

Based on what I have seen, read and heard I form my own opinion, just like evrybody else, however I will not degrade, belittle or attempt to ridicule someone else for their opinion.

My opinion on this topic, and I share it because it has been asked, is that nobody has the right to display a corpse in a manner that is disrespectful to the deceased or the deceased's family regardless of the reason they ended up dead.

Just imagine it being your child, sibling or parent again regardless of their actions and regardless doesn't mean acceptable.

I am of the opinion of you live by the sword you die by the sword and my younger brother has been on the wrong side of the law for 10 years now, since he was 18, and I still stand by this opinion and offer no sympathy for him being in jail however on the other hand my mother still crys day and night when she talks about him or thinks about where he is and how he is doing and if he has had breakfast.

Now imagine what would happen to her if her sons body was put on display like that, regardless.......

[TheNuclearOne]

My opinion on this topic, and I share it because it has been asked, is that nobody has the right to display a corpse in a manner that is disrespectful to the deceased or the deceased's family regardless of the reason they ended up dead.


Just to clarify, you would believe someone like Pol Pot should receive respect and dignity as a corpse. What about the dignity of the 25% of his countries population he executed and tortured? What about the millions of people related (and obviously affected) to said the deceased? What about all the babies he had killed via the smashing of their skulls against tree's? The many many thousands killed with hoes and bars? The stupendous amounts buried alive? I'm not even scratching the surface. What about the Muslims he forced to eat pork, or die?

At what stage does ANY sort of respect cease?



I am of the opinion of you live by the sword you die by the sword

Really?

I find this contradictory to your comments i quoted above.

Now i haven't advocated nor condoned anything (corpse wise) at all, but am curious to know your thoughts.

[Zak]

No I believe his family should receive the respect and dignity and what gives any of us the right to take that away from them?

If he chose to play god do we try to play god also??

You make a reference to him making muslims eat pork or die, this doesn't sway my decision in anyway because I didnt know him and he didn't affect my direct family.

If that was the case then I'd hate the Jewish and Christians across the world due to what has happened in the past but again what has happened in the past was before my time and never hurt me or my family and that is why my closest friends are in fact Jewish and Christians.

My comment about living by the sword may have come across wrong and what I meant was simply you do the crime you do the time. It may be jail it may be a hanging back in the day and to be honest whatever the punishment may be and no matter how horrendous or graphic, if that is what is suitable, I still believe that the family deserve some sort of respect and not have the deceased body put on display and ridiculed and again for their sake not the perpetrator.

Pol Pot, Sadam, Bin Laden, Hitler and the like all needed public style punishment but once finished the bodies handed over to the family to be dealt with in whatever manner they see fit, except for stuffing of coarse.

Interested in your opinion about if a member of your family, brother, father or son say, was found out to be a serial pedophile or rapist or murderer and was caught out and killed himself and then the body treated in a similar manner, would you be supportive of this treatment??

[dave1]

When america invaded iraq and afghanistan the support of approval for that action was 70-80% amongst american citizens.

Its less than 50% now - way less.

[PeteyD]

Peoples memories are short.

[TheNuclearOne]

Interested in your opinion about if a member of your family, brother, father or son say, was found out to be a serial pedophile or rapist or murderer and was caught out and killed himself and then the body treated in a similar manner, would you be supportive of this treatment??

There's fine lines and a variety of depth here. Tho utterly disgusting a serial pedo is no Pol Pot or suicide bomber. Hell, they let them back out to re-offend in so many cases. If all the press is correct you need look no further than poor Daniel's killer. A murderer also need not be held to the level of these scum. Lets draw a line - child killer or serial killer type (have a look at that Bryant) and i would not care what they did with them tbh. It would be incredibly unlikely i'd be going to any funeral anyway. Obviously you'd have to go thru the situation to be 10% certain as it's just so out of the ordinary, but i'd be disgusted.

It angers and saddens me greatly looking at this Norway killer of so kids pulling salutes and going to incredible depths defending and self righting the reasons for why he killed truck loads of teens about to enter into the open world.

[Zak]

It appears we are on the same side but differ on opinion with and probably many topics but I can assure you will get no argument when it comes to the Norway killer.

Didn't he claim he did it to protect their ways against the increasing Islamic presence but all those kids were on a church camp and were of a Christian background???

Even if they were Islamic kids it obviously doesn't make it right but, here comes the conspiracy, has anyone thought he may be a converted terrorist playing a charade, Homeland style???

Just putting it out there........

[TheNuclearOne]

It appears we are on the same side but differ on opinion with and probably many topics but I can assure you will get no argument when it comes to the Norway killer.

Didn't he claim he did it to protect their ways against the increasing Islamic presence but all those kids were on a church camp and were of a Christian background???

Even if they were Islamic kids it obviously doesn't make it right but, here comes the conspiracy, has anyone thought he may be a converted terrorist playing a charade, Homeland style???

Just putting it out there........


I think he's just queer personally, a few sandwiches short of a picnic, couple of beers short of a 6 pack. Regardless of intelligence you have to be lacking something upstairs to come from where he has and do what he has done. Trouble is he had the smarts and such to get together a scary array of gear and pull off such a ridiculous waste of life. There had to be some serious planning and thinking for this to go so smoothly even after his initial bombing failed to impact as much as he hoped. Straight to a plan B that went without hitch, it's insane. No doubt there are plenty more like him around, but lacking the ability, cunning and planning to get such a stunt off the ground. It's scary.

I must watch that Homeland at some point, heard great things about it.

[dave1]

Peoples memories are short. No What happens is the "lets get revenge" arguement wears thin.....Especially as the enemy fires back......This war was started because the american public would "feel safer" if they attacked first........ARE we any safer because of the "war on terrorism"They the enemy have attacked Madrid, London and Bali since 9-11....... I ask you are we safer because of this action?......I'm not saying we do nothing but the whole lets attack Iraq and Afghanistan is flawed and a war that has no ending in sight....

[PeteyD]

I think we are safer, but there is little means to quantify it. The attacks you list were in 04 and 05, reasonably close to 9-11. Got anything recent? Al Qedah appears to have been hammered.

As far as the war having no ending in sight, Christians vs Muslims has been going on since the crusades, so the conflict has a long and bloody history. The emergence of the communist states in the 20th century presented a different focus. I am not saying it is right, but the conflict has been there a long time.

If there is no attack on Iraq or Afghanistan, what it is you think should have been done?

[dave1]

Im not sure ...But doing what they and we was an over reaction to 9-11.

[TheNuclearOne]

Im not sure ...But doing what they and we was an over reaction to 9-11.

Well they certainly had to do something. It showed just how vulnerable not only the USA, but the entire world could potentially be. They've certainly damaged and hindered the terrorist groups immensely. The extra precautions and securities sure haven't hurt.

[sms316]

Im not sure ...But doing what they and we was an over reaction to 9-11. I suppose that after a radical group organise hijacking planes and flying them into buildings, killing 10,000+ going in all guns blazing was a bit of an overreaction. The US government really should have sat down with the Taliban to discuss it in a civil manner.

[PeteyD]

Im not sure ...But doing what they and we was an over reaction to 9-11.

I suppose Midway was an overreaction to Pearl Harbour too.

[dave1]

I know what your saying guys and my views might seem odd and probably wouldn't work

I acknowledge that. But this war has gone on way too long. Saudi Arabia - why no political pressure or sanctions against them - that was the nationa where the terrorists came from.


Oil.....

Why didnt they invade Pakistan? Many terrorist are hiding there.

[PeteyD]

So you agree with the action and think it should be widened to include Pakistan and Saudi Arabia? yes I am being facetious. But so is your blanket statement Oil.