Free Range Kids

[Bruce]

Rather than further derail the Australian of the Year thread let's discuss the parenting issues here.

I'm a fan of Lenore Skenazy and her http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/ movement.

I'm not interested in teaching my kids that the world is a terrifying place and that they should be scared of every adult who isn't in a family member. The reality is that the most likely person to harm them is relative, that an adult stranger is more likely to help them if asked and possibly remove them from danger rather than vice versa.

I don't feel I have to hover nearby whenever they are doing something, they are allowed to have some independence that I hope will allow them to dominate the molly-coddled saps that don't know how to deal with any setbacks without mum and dad getting involved when they reach adulthood.

The world is safer than it has ever been no matter how you measure it - why are we more scared?

[AndyP]

The media.

[PeteyD]

My kids run rampant throughout the neighbourhood. There are quite a few families with young kids in the area, seems to work fine.

[LarryLong]

Lenore Skenazy is my hero (or heroine, I suppose).

Over-emphasis on child safety is one of those things that is far too easily defensible in our modern society because parents are all just shitting themselves with worry most of the time - for no good reason. It's hard to beat. The problem is that it starts at a very young age. I had to argue my arse off and bring to bear my copious powers of procrastination to make sure that we never put gates up on the three steps in my split level house, for example. I can only imagine how much harder it's going to be to get away with giving my kid ten bucks and sending her up to the shop to get milk by herself in five or ten years time.

The worst thing though is that you just don't see kids on the street anymore. I live near the beach, so I often see young kids on holidays walking around the streets near my place and it always makes me happy to see kids out and about. It's great for the neighbourhood. A while back we went to visit Ballarat and I took my toddler out for a walk around the block. Didn't see one kid, anywhere. I grew up in Ballarat and I know there's a bogan element in some parts, but it's hardly downtown Sao Paulo out there.

[BrisVegas]

The media.

Yeah, the depravity of a few sickos is common knowledge now. That causes people to think twice about trusting in the odds. If you've been unfortunate enough to deal with sexual assault, it's hard to letting your guard down with kids and strangers.

[AndyP]

Child porn epidemic.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/growing-alarm-over-child-porn-epidemic-20120207-1r667.html


EPIDEMIC!
Lock your kiddies up.

[Lagerlover]

can never be too safe, their lives take a totally different direction from that day forward. surprised at the remarks made to be honest...especially those with children.

[AndyP]

15701

[Lagerlover]

15701


**** me... and you're a parent!!!

[AndyP]

Well, what do you mean by "can never be too safe"? You wouldn't let kids out at all? Backyard or inside play only?

I used to ride all over the place by myself when I was young. Why is it so different now?

[Lagerlover]

too flippant. i acknowledge we can't wrap them up, but if I ever get told by one of my kids that they just got "touched up".... god help that person!
times have changed through the actions of bravehearts and the like. the boarding schools are now suddenly "aware" of some of their "oversights", when it came to dealing with the few complaints that actually made it to those in charge.
i'm not a believer, but i pray nothing ever happens to your children.

[Jarro]

I still won't let my kids walk too far around the neighbourhood on their own.

I agree with LL, you can't be too careful

[Lagerlover]

I still won't let my kids walk too far around the neighbourhood on their own.

I agree with LL, you can't be too careful

there was always THAT uncle that the kids weren't allowed to be left alone with, or THAT neighbour that could you could only play with outside.
as I said, you let your guard down just once, you'll spend the rest of your life helping rebuild your childs future.
I would rather be hated by my children for not letting them do what others do, than picking up the pieces after anyone attacked them.

[Bruce]

If you wish to live your life emphasising unlikely events, imagining worst case scenarios and living in fear of them while ignoring far more likely events that will be just as damaging or even fatal - then that is your right.

[Lagerlover]

If you wish to live your life emphasising unlikely events, imagining worst case scenarios and living in fear of them while ignoring far more likely events that will be just as damaging or even fatal - then that is your right.

i do, and i thankyou for it

[Ferrins]

Unsupportable conclusions withdrawn.

[just]

too flippant. i acknowledge we can't wrap them up, but if I ever get told by one of my kids that they just got "touched up".... god help that person!
times have changed through the actions of bravehearts and the like. the boarding schools are now suddenly "aware" of some of their "oversights", when it came to dealing with the few complaints that actually made it to those in charge.
i'm not a believer, but i pray nothing ever happens to your children.
You've identified the problem, most sexual abuse takes place in the family. Therefore the answer is to never let your kids have any contact with family members, they will be much safer from sexual abuse when they are with strangers. Yes, I'm being flippant, but if everyone else is making unsupportable conclusions despite the evidence why can't I. Finally I think Hetty Johnson of Bravehearts is a fear monger of the worst kind.

[Pieface]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

Quite a few kids in my street now in the 6-12 type of age range. I reckon it is nice when they are running up and down the street laughing and playing.

[PeteyD]

You've identified the problem, most sexual abuse takes place in the family. Therefore the answer is to never let your kids have any contact with family members, they will be much safer from sexual abuse when they are with strangers. Yes, I'm being flippant, but if everyone else is making unsupportable conclusions despite the evidence why can't I. Finally I think Hetty Johnson of Bravehearts is a fear monger of the worst kind.

Agreed. Milo Minderbender type of thinking.




Quite a few kids in my street now in the 6-12 type of age range. I reckon it is nice when they are running up and down the street laughing and playing.

Same here, it is great.

[sms316]

The world is safer than it has ever been no matter how you measure it - why are we more scared?
So the Morcombes can make money from it.

[AndyP]

As of this morning, my 9 year old is now going for runs by himself. He was so excited when I proposed it to him the other day, that he set his alarm and got up early to go for a run this morning.

[LarryLong]

As of this morning, my 9 year old is now going for runs by himself. He was so excited when I proposed it to him the other day, that he set his alarm and got up early to go for a run this morning.

Nice one Andy.

Were you struggling to keep up?

[Webster]

Don't let him run past Rolf Harris's house Andyp.

[AndyP]

Were you struggling to keep up?
I've got some time before that happens.


Don't let him run past Rolf Harris's house Andyp.Rolf can look, but he can't touch.

[Moe Norman]

my 6 year old wnats to ride to school by herself.

As far I'm concerned its too early. she has no idea about crossing roads etc, so we've said no way.

got me thinking though. I used to walk to school when I was 5, and walked by myself.

I lived in a very quiet town though.

having said that, we definitely don't wrap them up in cotton wool, but on this point I think we're just using common sense. I'm not even convinced she could find her way there.

[BrisVegas]

my 6 year old wnats to ride to school by herself.

As far I'm concerned its too early. she has no idea about crossing roads etc, so we've said no way.

got me thinking though. I used to walk to school when I was 5, and walked by myself.

I lived in a very quiet town though.

having said that, we definitely don't wrap them up in cotton wool, but on this point I think we're just using common sense. I'm not even convinced she could find her way there.

for sure. My 7yo rode to school a bit last year, but i wouldn't let her go all the way. I'd get her halfway there and let her go on her way. There's a busy road to cross near the start of the walk/ride, which I wouldn't be comfortable in her crossing solo. She definitely knows the way and surprised me with how careful she was when i followed and watched her a couple of times.

This year they're both at school, but my 5yo isn't a confident enough rider yet. So, as a compromise, I've been letting them ride their scooters, with me walking or riding along with them.

I remember walking to school on my own at Eagle Junction SS when I was in grade 3. Was prob 1-2 km walk, but quieter back streets than what my kids would have to go on now. Come to think of it, I rode my bike or caught the bus myself in since starting school, but that was in Proserpine where everyone knew each other...

[Bruce]

She might surprise you Moe. I was driving a tractor when I was 8 years old.

If there are lights for the busiest roads then maybe walk with her a few times and then hang back and let her do it herself with you hanging back 30m or so. Near enough to be heard but not enough to interfere. I did this with mine and they were ok.

[Moe Norman]

mine has to cross Graceville Avenue about half way there. Not a chance in hell I'm allowing that.

But having said that earlier, I don't give her enough credit. If she took an indirect route, she would get there easy. Only has to ride up our street to Oxley Road, then its straight down Oxley Road. Oxley Road is very busy, but she wouldn't have to cross.

[BrisVegas]

She'd be pretty visible on Oxley Rd too.

We've gotta cross Stuartholme Rd on a really busy bend and there really isn't any way around it.

[Moe Norman]

She'd be pretty visible on Oxley Rd too.

We've gotta cross Stuartholme Rd on a really busy bend and there really isn't any way around it.

On Oxley Road she would be with 30 other kids in yellow shirts and blue shorts.

doesn't change the fact that she would still need to cross Graceville Avenue. Wouldn't mind working out a system where she could walk with a bunch of other local kids, but they are all definitely in cotton wool.

[Mububban]

Moe, lots of schools have "walking buses" where a couple of parents lead a group of kids walking, one parent at the front and rear, often wearing hi vis bibs. Your school might already have one? Helps stop them becoming little fatty poombahs too :D

http://www.vichealth.vic.gov.au/wsb/

It's a tough one isn't it, but I don't think there are any more sickos out there nowadays compared to the 60s, 70s and 80s when lots of us would hav grown up. With the media nowadays though, we hear about everything all across the state, country and globe so it's more often in the news. Up until I was 7 and my sister 11 my mum was home from work so she walked us to and from school, but when we moved to Perth we took care of ourselves. Weekends were "be home before 5pm or you'll be grounded."

I want to give my kids as much freedom and independence as they can handle at any given age, but at 2.5 and 4.5 I watch them like a hawk. Our local schools are close by, my wife walks my daughter to kindy and back and she'll be off work for another 3 years at a guess. After that I guess we'll see!

Statistically speaking, nothing bad is going to happen. And I'm not in any way dismissing the lifelong impact abuse can entail, but I think overall it would cause more harm to society if the other >90% were wrapped up in cotton wool their whole childhood. You just hope it's not your family that experiences it....

[tim_golfer2]

fyi
A female friend of my son (15 years old) walking home last week about 5pm. School holidays, daylight. Guy in a car pulls up near her. Says something to her (not sure what) then gets out of car and moves towards her. She starts running and he initially gives chase. Then he gives up (she's fit). She bolts all the way home, has an asthma attack. Reports it to cops.

As someone said earlier, shit happens.

I don't believe I've made my 2 kids paranoid, but they are very aware of what's going on around them out in the street. I think martial arts training has heightened that awareness for them and for me.

If I've made them wait an extra year until they can go to the mall or movies with friends then it's a small price to pay for their increased safety.

I have a friend who works with the local cops and she reckons you wouldn't believe how much goes down that you never hear about.

Just my view.

[Moe Norman]

My 6 year olds godmother works in child protection for the QLD police.

We try not to listen to some of the stories she tells, and also try not to let us influence our behaviour - but there is some ****ed up shit going on out there right under our noses.

[Mububban]

Life and death are so random, we see that every day. You just cross your fingers that it's not you or yours but you can never tell :(

[LarryLong]

Grandfather lets happy 6 year old swim naked - concerned citizen calls the cops.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-investigate-frolicking-child-20130504-2izt3.html

The response from the Bravehearts chick is just a little disappointing, to say the least.

[Mububban]

What retard calls the cops when the kid is obviously having fun and not being felt up either? It's just a kid having a swim ffs. That much should have been obvious to anyone watching. It's not like grandpa had his hands down her pants. He's sitting several metres away, not leering from the bushes with a video camera. Geez there are some f-wits out there.

[bergsey]

Grandfather lets happy 6 year old swim naked - concerned citizen calls the cops.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-investigate-frolicking-child-20130504-2izt3.html

The response from the Bravehearts chick is just a little disappointing, to say the least.

Seriously that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard, particularly the Bravehearts and Police response

[Ned]

Not that it is possible, but interesting as to who the "Notifier" was for the report of the incident. (Could be linked to family dispute etc situation)

As for Bravehearts, they are a action/lobby group and any media presence opportunity is welcomed by them.

Not up on NSW requirements, but in Qld, regardless of how insignificant it may appear, once a report or complaint is made, legislative process has to be followed. (Be it through Child Safety if its considered to be a safety and well being matter of a child or through Police if criminal matters are relevant)

[bergsey]

Yep know the cops would have to follow it up but don't agree the person 'did the right thing' (on the evidence presented)

[Fraser]

Just on a side note,
in my job i wear hi vis gear and visit lots of residential homes so deal with all sorts of people their dogs, cats and kids. It's some times a pat and chat fest.
One lady's house i attended she had trouble containing the 6 year old dauhter then fmd she told her 6 year old daughter i was a police man and then the 6 year old ran in side screaming.
I could not believe my eyes, what has this woman told this kid about the police?
anyway....

[PeteyD]

Probably that they will come and take her away if she misbehaves

[Marto65]

Could have been worse if she told the kid you're a storm supporter.

[popper81]

The daughter might have heard "this man is Brett Stewart..."

[Fraser]

Funny buggers,
fancy telling your kids the good guys are the bad guys

[AndyP]

You are helping out at a school cross country race and you notice a man watching the race closely, clapping and encouraging the kids as they go past. Do you:
a) Do nothing
b) Keep a close eye on him
c) Approach him and ask him why he is there and to identify himself
d) Ring the police.

[3Puttpete]

You are helping out at a school cross country race and you notice a man watching the race closely, clapping and encouraging the kids as they go past. Do you:
a) Do nothing
b) Keep a close eye on him
c) Approach him and ask him why he is there and to identify himself
d) Ring the police.

b, c in company, b, b, possibly d

[Lagerlover]

You are helping out at a school cross country race and you notice a man watching the race closely, clapping and encouraging the kids as they go past. Do you:a) Do nothingb) Keep a close eye on himc) Approach him and ask him why he is there and to identify himselfd) Ring the police. I thought you were anti child protection?

[BenM]

Need more information Andy. How do you know the man is not a parent?

Even if he isn't there isn't anything inherently wrong with cheering and encouraging the kids is there?

[LarryLong]

I would probably do nothing if he's just watching, but if you're worried you could always cook up some reason to be close by and ask him an innocent question like "have you got a kid in this one?"

[AndyP]

I thought you were anti child protection?
I'm anti-paranoia and anti-overprotection.


Need more information Andy. How do you know the man is not a parent?

Even if he isn't there isn't anything inherently wrong with cheering and encouraging the kids is there?The helper doesn't know if they are a parent or not. Should they ask?


I would probably do nothing if he's just watching, but if you're worried you could always cook up some reason to be close by and ask him an innocent question like "have you got a kid in this one?"
He was just watching with his notebook and drink bottle.

[rubin]

I'm anti-paranoia and anti-overprotection.

The helper doesn't know if they are a parent or not. Should they ask?

He was just watching with his notebook and drink bottle.

Fwiw - my athletics coach from when I was younger did exactly that, but if anyone asked, he always told them who he was and why he was there.

No harm in asking a question.

[AndyP]

The helper wouldn't think it was a coach, because it is a school event for 9 to 12 year olds.

If it was a woman, (a) would be the default, wouldn't it?

[BenM]

I'm anti-paranoia and anti-overprotection.

The helper doesn't know if they are a parent or not. Should they ask?


He was just watching with his notebook and drink bottle.

I think it'd be fine to ask if you are concerned, you'd have to be a bit careful to do it in a non-accusatory way. "Hi, which one is yours?" etc. In 99% of cases I'm sure there would be a perfectly reasonable explanation for them being there.

It's a real shame that in certain situations, apparently all men are considered paedophiles until proven otherwise.

[Dude, Where's my Par?]

.... apparently all men are considered paedophiles until proven otherwise.
especially on airlines, according to offical policy anyway

[LarryLong]

If it was a woman, (a) would be the default, wouldn't it?

Yep, and I'd like to think (a) should be the default with a bloke too if he's not doing anything untoward.


It's a real shame that in certain situations, apparently all men are considered paedophiles until proven otherwise.

Very much so. I enjoy watching kids playing, but I'm often given a very nasty stare from parents when I watch their kids. I don't get mad at them, because I understand where they're coming from, but it's a little bit sad.

[AndyP]

I think it'd be fine to ask if you are concerned, you'd have to be a bit careful to do it in a non-accusatory way. "Hi, which one is yours?" etc. Most ways you ask would look like you are sussing them out.


In 99% of cases I'm sure there would be a perfectly reasonable explanation for them being there. 99.999%?

If the helper went with (c), and approached the man, does that make them a bit paranoid or over-protective?

[goughy]

A few weeks ago I went to watch Jas play interschool netball at the fields which aren't far from my place. They were packed with kids from about every primary school in town, and I had to wander around a bit to find her game. Walking around in my dirty work clothes like some long haired git; while I didn't feel like eyes were watching me I did feel self conscious about it and expected some teacher to approach me. Didn't happen though.

[Mububban]

You are helping out at a school cross country race and you notice a man watching the race closely, clapping and encouraging the kids as they go past. Do you:
a) Do nothing
b) Keep a close eye on him
c) Approach him and ask him why he is there and to identify himself
d) Ring the police.

Andy you revived this thread after a few months - were you the parent helping, or the man watching? What brought this up all of a sudden?

[AndyP]

I'm the "creepy" guy and the option that the helper (teacher or other school staff member) went with was (c). Like Larry said above, I wasn't mad about it, but find it a bit sad that it needs to be asked. I was a bit taken aback by being asked my name though.

[Courty]

I'm the "creepy" guy and the option that the helper (teacher or other school staff member) went with was (c). Like Larry said above, I wasn't mad about it, but find it a bit sad that it needs to be asked. I was a bit taken aback by being asked my name though.

It's the beard. Nothing good can come from looking like the man from Borneo. :p

[Yossarian]

You should have told them to **** off Andy.

[Mububban]

I'm the "creepy" guy and the option that the helper (teacher or other school staff member) went with was (c). Like Larry said above, I wasn't mad about it, but find it a bit sad that it needs to be asked. I was a bit taken aback by being asked my name though.

Were they friendly or confrontational?

Yeah it is a bit sad but I work at an all girl's school so I'm used to doing things that little bit more cautiously. Keep your distance etc.

My kids (3 and 5) have recently made friends with some older kids a few houses down (7 and 9 I think). They play out the front yard of both houses, and I'm getting chatty with the (single) mum but at this early stage in the growing friendship, I make sure my wife is home if the other kids want to come inside, just so there's someone else around. It's an easy compromise to make for now.

[AndyP]

Were they friendly or confrontational?

Yeah it is a bit sad but I work at an all girl's school so I'm used to doing things that little bit more cautiously. Keep your distance etc.
Friendly enough, but I can't see why it was needed. It was an open public park. What could I potentially do?

[BenM]

You have a beard now AndyP? No bloody wonder! :D

I know that it sucks that we are stereotyped. But honestly, don't take it personally, I reckon the helper was just trying to be responsible. If one of the kids had disappeared and the police/search party knew there was a bloke hanging around they would want to know who you were and see if you could be of any assistance. If they hadn't asked, they'd be given a hard time about it. So they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

It's true that asking for your name is a bit much though. I wasn't aware it was illegal to watch a bunch of kids having a running race, whether you're a parent or not. Some people enjoy watching sport (of all types) without getting any jollies from it.

[AndyP]

I'm not worried about it, just bringing it up for discussion.

I could have just as easily given a false name to satisfy her. I just can't understand how she could think that I looked dodgy.

26459

[backintheswing]

I have to have a blue card to go into a dressing shed with 17 yo football players. If a pervert tried anything they would bash him.

Anyway that is how the world is heading and you aren't going to change anything now.

[3Puttpete]

I'm not worried about it, just bringing it up for discussion.

I could have just have easily given a false name to satisfy her. I just can't understand how she could think that I looked dodgy.

26459

Did she hit you?

[BenM]

Did she hit you?

Hahahahaa... walked into a door?

Sorry mate. It's just funny. You look like Todd Russell!

[Lobsta]

I'm the "creepy" guy and the option that the helper (teacher or other school staff member) went with was (c). Like Larry said above, I wasn't mad about it, but find it a bit sad that it needs to be asked. I was a bit taken aback by being asked my name though.

In hindsight you probably should have worn pants...

[matty]

That's what happens when you hang around playgrounds with a beard and notebook!

[AndyP]

Did she hit you?
One of the kids kicked out as I was stuffing them in the boot of my car. Feisty little buggers.

[goughy]

You just needed a slicked back ponytail to complete the look!

[spanner039]

You just needed a slicked back ponytail to complete the look!

And a Collingwood jumper!!!!

[LarryLong]

If one of the kids had disappeared and the police/search party knew there was a bloke hanging around they would want to know who you were and see if you could be of any assistance.

Not having a dig at you Ben, but I reckon this is where the trouble starts. It's an incredibly unlikely scenario, but people always talk about it like it is a chance and you need to plan for it.


I could have just as easily given a false name to satisfy her.

Michael Court?


I have to have a blue card to go into a dressing shed with 17 yo football players. If a pervert tried anything they would bash him.

That made me laugh. :) I can remember the Bacchus Marsh under 18 side I used to play against - I would have wanted a police escort before I even went into their change rooms.

[Mububban]

Not having a dig at you Ben, but I reckon this is where the trouble starts. It's an incredibly unlikely scenario, but people always talk about it like it is a chance and you need to plan for it.

Did anyone see this controlled experiment on the news this week? Kids who've been taught not to go with strangers happily did so with very little convincing.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/gone-in-90-seconds-how-long-it-takes-to-abduct-a-child/story-fnet085v-1226710878736


A British television program in co-operation with a children's charity demonstrated this week just how swiftly and easy it is to take children from under their parents' noses, with just a momentary loss of concentration.

One of the most troubling aspects of the set-up was how willing children were to go off with a stranger, who acted in a friendly manner and looked like a normal person.

Of the nine children he approached, seven co-operated and within a space of 90 seconds walked from the playground with him.

This is one reason why I'm not a fan of parents sitting on the sidelines engrossed in their smartphones while their kids run amok. When they get older I'd like them to be able to roam the neighbourhood like me and my mates used to do, but while my kids are so young (3 and 5) I watch them like a hawk.

[AndyP]

You've missed the point of what Larry said. The point is that the chances of this happening are very, very unlikely. The chances are probably the same as when you and I were roaming around the neighbourhood freely without our parents watching us.

[BenM]

Yes the chances are very low. The chances of being in a car accident are pretty low too but we still wear seat belts.

All I'm saying is that the person thought they were doing the right thing by asking. Unfortunately while the chances are low that you were a danger, the world isn't as trusting a place as it was in the 80s when I was a kid. Even though it's no more dangerous. Sad but true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[LarryLong]

Did anyone see this controlled experiment on the news this week? Kids who've been taught not to go with strangers happily did so with very little convincing.

It's true. It makes you wonder why there aren't kids being abducted every day, everywhere.

They roll this one out on Today Tonight every now and then. It's like the boogeyman for adults, the guy in the white van. He's not out there, because if he was, he'd have a house full of kids in a week without even trying and nobody would ever know.


You've missed the point of what Larry said. The point is that the chances of this happening are very, very unlikely. The chances are probably the same as when you and I were roaming around the neighbourhood freely without our parents watching us.

Bingo.


Unfortunately while the chances are low that you were a danger, the world isn't as trusting a place as it was in the 80s when I was a kid. Even though it's no more dangerous. Sad but true.

That's very true. A generation of early childhood 'Stranger Danger' and tabloid TV have us all living in fear. I'm trying to go the other way, if I can, but I'll admit it's not always easy.

To add some reality, I looked up the stats. http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/0/B/6/%7B0B619F44-B18B-47B4-9B59-F87BA643CBAA%7Dfacts11.pdf A fraction out of date (2010) but everybody should read that. Abduction stats for kids under 9 - 3 in 10,000, and of those, the stats say that strangers commit somewhere around 20% or less.

[Mububban]

My mum was a real "cotton wool" type, but I was never a cotton wool kid and I don't want my kids to be either. Striking a balance is the difficult part. I encourage my kids to talk to people at the shops, if they want to know something they should go and (politely) ask the person. Wave to people driving down our street to make sure they've seen you, say hello to people as you walk past. People comment on how confident my kids are around other people, and I tell them that most people are nice and friendly. I don't think the world is a more evil place than it ever was, I just think we hear more about it so it seems that way.


That said, I was a classmate of a girl who was abducted, raped and killed and the crime has never been solved. Incredibly rare occurrence of course, but it does happen and her mother has never forgiven herself.

[AndyP]

A reminder that supervision does not begin until 8:10a. Any child who arrives before this time is unsupervised. There are a number of children arriving at school extremely early. Before school care is available for these families.Do notes need to be sent to school telling them they are not responsible outside of school hours and that supervision is not needed?

I don't know how early "extremely early" is, but you would assume that these parents trust their kids to be there that early.

[Mububban]

Do notes need to be sent to school telling them they are not responsible outside of school hours and that supervision is not needed?

I don't know how early "extremely early" is, but you would assume that these parents trust their kids to be there that early.

I'm guessing this is when both parents work, not sure why they aren't aware of or don't utilise the on-site before and after school care option (cost perhaps, or is it free?). But yep some kids have always been dumped an hour or more before school opens, let alone when classes actually start, due to mum and dad having to get to work on time. They just sit there from 7am onwards until their friends arrive.

[Hatchman]

There are costs for OHSC.
It's charged on attendance not time. 10min or 2hrs costs the same.

[AndyP]

My point is that there is nothing wrong with kids being dropped off early. They shouldn't have to use before school care.

I don't expect a teacher to look after my kids when I drop them off earlier than start time.

[Mububban]

School's probably thinking of duty of care and insurance liability. What happens if the kid tries to climb the basketball hoop and falls off and breaks an arm with no adult supervision available?

[Monsta]

School's probably thinking of duty of care and insurance liability. What happens if the kid tries to climb the basketball hoop and falls off and breaks an arm with no adult supervision available?

What happened to the good old days when if you fell off the basketball hoop and broke your arm, you didnt get to sue anyone, its your own stupid fault, go to hospital, get patched up and get over it.
This is the problem with the current generation, everyone else is to blame except the idiot that gets hurt.

[3Puttpete]

School's probably thinking of duty of care and insurance liability. What happens if the kid tries to climb the basketball hoop and falls off and breaks an arm with no adult supervision available?

The kids should be taught to suck it up until there's a teacher on duty. Then jump off the basketball hoop and let them know about the broken arm.

[rubin]

My point is that there is nothing wrong with kids being dropped off early. They shouldn't have to use before school care.

I don't expect a teacher to look after my kids when I drop them off earlier than start time.


School's probably thinking of duty of care and insurance liability. What happens if the kid tries to climb the basketball hoop and falls off and breaks an arm with no adult supervision available?

The duty of care for the majority of schools in WA, begins 30 minutes prior to the commencement of classes, and ceases at either A) 30 minutes after the final class of the day (bell, siren etc)
or
B)15 minutes after the end of a school organised activity if outside of school hours.

Andy, the send the reminder out because they have a duty to ensure the community is continuously updated (it is an insurance requirement for the most part), and I have been made aware of situations in the past where the school has been forced to issue a trespass order because kids have been on the grounds too early.

The liability of schools is convoluted and long winded, but to use the example above, if a kid jumps of a b/ball ring outside of the hours mentioned, and provided there is 'suitable' safety in place (it is a loose and undefinable term) there is no comeback on the school.

[AndyP]

I could drop them off early at a nearby park, but that's not where their friends are or the handball courts.

[bergsey]

Things like this make me want to puke http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/19025992/jail-time-cut-for-dad-who-touched-boys/I've been a parent helper a few times and definitely feel like people are watching you like a hawk... sad times

[liptout]

The judicial sysem in this country is an absolute disgrace!! It's so far out of whack with what the community expects is not funny!!

That filthy c*** would have gotten 40yrs in America!!

At least they do some better than us over there.......

[oncewasagolfer]

If they are going to give pricks like that such a lenient sentence they should castrate them before they are released to society.

[liptout]

It doesn't change them though OWAG, you can't do anything to these filthy animals to change them.

Lobotomy maybe, but castration don't work!!

[oncewasagolfer]

Yeah you are probably right I don't know how these sickos minds work but thought if the urge is removed......

[Mububban]

There's more than one way to skin a cat, or molest a kid. Chemical or physical castration doesn't eliminate all other parts of the body, or the mental imbalance that causes the behaviour in the first place. Pity they can't stay locked away forever. I know of one US offender who voluntarily submitted to chemical castration, but also doesn't want to/doesn't think he'll ever be released because he's self aware enough to admit that he'll likely just offend again if let out.

[rubin]

There's more than one way to skin a cat, or molest a kid. Chemical or physical castration doesn't eliminate all other parts of the body, or the mental imbalance that causes the behaviour in the first place. Pity they can't stay locked away forever. I know of one US offender who voluntarily submitted to chemical castration, but also doesn't want to/doesn't think he'll ever be released because he's self aware enough to admit that he'll likely just offend again if let out.

I can't recall now if it was an interview or news article, but I saw the same thing. The thing that got me though, was that this bloke looked completely and sounded completely normal. He even admitted to knowing it was wrong, but that there was something in his head that made him do it, and that he could not be rehabilitated, and anyone who said something different was lying.

Different to the bloke here in aus, who will touch up just about anyone he can (the dragon bloke, I can't remember his full name)

[Dingo]

I can't recall now if it was an interview or news article, but I saw the same thing. The thing that got me though, was that this bloke looked completely and sounded completely normal. He even admitted to knowing it was wrong, but that there was something in his head that made him do it, and that he could not be rehabilitated, and anyone who said something different was lying.

There is something wrong in the heads of these blokes. The normal instinct with children is to protect them. Somehow that instinct is missing or even reversed. I can't see how it is possible to fix them. Having said that, there is some really poor parenting going on too. I don't know how to fix that either.

[Mububban]

I think this initiative to get more kids walking to school and riding bikes is excellent. There are a few videos in this link. I especially liked the Vimeo link to the Portland school. As one parent said, it’s about trying to install in kids the idea that exercise is a normal thing for everyday life. Teach them while they’re young and it’ll be with them for life. We're trying to do that with our kids, my wife walks with my daughter to kindy and she walks or rides her bike or scooter.

I also love how the 5th graders are the crosswalk attendants. Give kids responsibility and they’ll rise to the occasion.

http://www.watoday.com.au/executive-style/fitness/blogs/on-your-bike/is-it-safe-for-children-to-ride-on-the-road-20131216-2zfo4.html



The Netherlands is, of course, the Shangri-La of world cycling – mesmerise yourself with this time-lapse video of children arriving at school, or marvel at the mounds of bikes in this park.

But most people don’t realise that the Dutch freedom from car dominance was a hard-won battle fought in the 70s – and that child safety was used as a compellingly emotive argument (http://streetsblog.net/2013/02/20/the-origins-of-hollands-stop-murdering-children-street-safety-movement/).

But that’d never work outside Europe, right? We love and need our cars too much in Australia. Well, they do in the US, too, but this video from Portland, Oregon suggests there are ways to tackle the problem.


player.vimeo.com/video/78517554