The Ground game or lack of it in our courses!

[petethepilot]

Don't mean to sound like a golf snob, but I have been lucky enough to travel extensively and play golf. One thing that pisses me off about golf in Queensland in particular, is the lack of design imagination, ie. to reward other shot options than the fly it at the flag shot. I can't recall a course I have played since returning to Queensland that allows a ground game type of shot (bounce it in) or the use of contours to access otherwise inaccessible pins as a primary option (ie a proper redan type hole - unsure? Google it!). Golf should be more than see a yardage and pull out a club.

Pure links type courses and well designed non-links that have some bounce will allow or reward the occasional shot that uses trajectory and curve. Our courses tend to be bomb it off the tee and hit it in high only type of stuff. As much due to the grass,overwatering or the design. It takes the imagination out of it.

Aside from kennedy Bay in WA, Royal Adelaide and the usual suspects in the Melbourne sandbelt, I can't think that I have played a shot on a hole that I am alluding to. For example, in Brisbane, name me a bowl type of green where the contours will gather toward the hole rather than an inverted bowl that throw everything away from it! We seem to love back to front slopes with bunkers at the front or the side, multiple steps and a dropoff at the back! Indro is as guilty as any others!!!

Love for someone to correct me.

Rant finished

PTP

[MegaWatty]

With soft greens, you can throw the ball at any pin at Kennedy Bay.

I'd love to see them a little firmer to require bouncing shots.

[petethepilot]

i've never played them soft MW!

[Moe Norman]

Pete,

Get out to RQ. There is plenty of opportunity for imagination and the greens there are one of the best sets in the country in terms of interest. Our climate doesn't allow for the pure ground game, as we can't gorw the correct turf, nor manage the turf we have in a way that suits the ground game.

[MegaWatty]

How about The Lakes re-design?

[3oneday]

Come to Dunheved ;) In Sydney though :lol:

[razaar]

You are right in what you say Pete. Most Queensland courses suit the player who can hit the ball high (and long). Prior to the 1970's, the courses were links design with small inverted greens. There was no automatic watering systems to the fairways or greens. The only way to get the ball close to the pin was to bounce it in. The change in design started with Kooralbyn, the first resort course in Australia.

[Moe Norman]

How about The Lakes re-design?

its not in Queensland?

[Sydney Hacker]

Minor technicality!

[Bruce]

I think the type of grass is the major deterrant to this. Things just end up too lush to allow the ground to be the primary choice. You are welcome to try at somewhere like Sea Temple which is built like a links course, but the grass between you and your target stops it being the preferred method.

I just don't think you can change that unless there is a major agronomy breakthrough that produces a new strain of turf suitable for the climate and the game.

[Veefore]

The course I play most has a clay base and kikuyu grass. They try to make it bump and run friendly for the old fellas but anything resembling a bowl will quickly fill up with water at the first sign of rain. Our 13th was poorly designed and is terrible for that and is the one green that becomes unplayable in what a Queenslander would call a " summer afternoon shower".

[Veefore]

How the hell do you find a clay based site in Perth ?
I thought it was all sand for gazillions of miles ?

Perth is mostly sand but there is some clay areas. Hartfield is in Forrestfield, right at the base of the scarp. It is all gravel and rock and I have always thought it was clay. I used to race motocross nearby when I was a kid and cleaning the clay off the bikes was a nightmare each week.

[PeteyD]

RQ is the only course I have played that makes you think like that. My golf has been restricted to SE Qld and Northern NSW. Will have to get back on RQ one of these days.

[MegaWatty]

its not in Queensland?

Nor is Kennedy Bay or Royal Adelaide.

[BrisVegas]

Pac Harbour has a few greens more suited to approach shots played along the ground, from memory. Again, it has the advantage of being built on sand. It also has plenty of elevated greens too, as that's about the only way to create a 'target' on dead flat ground.

[petethepilot]

Thanks for your inputs G69. i am obviously not an designer. I feel that if clubs had a closer look at their watering practices and where their sprinklers let water fall, that would improve things but the design has to make that shot the preferred and rewarded shot.

Saying that, how many greens in QLD slope front to back vrs the other way round? Bet you can't find 5 in toto that do that.

Pete

Thought I would start a thread that actually made people think about strategy and how they play!

[TheTrueReview]

Add Logan GC to the list. The join has no bunkers and is hard as a rock. For memory you can bounce a lot of balls onto the green.
I didn't think I'd ever see Logan and RQ in the same breath with regard to design.

The "Logan run" is classic. Eg. tee shot carry = 240 metres. Tee shot distance = 300 metres.

[Andrew]

There are a lot of things to consider with regards to the ground game.

- Drainage issues have been spoken about.

- Grass types issues have been spoken about.

- Maintenance issues are a big factor. Members want to see green, when in fact the traditional colour of golf is closer to brown. It is difficult with the heat we have in Australia & heatwave temperatures like we had in Sydney 4 years ago when a few courses ‘lost’ a few of their greens (In Southwest Sydney on that New Years Day, one course ‘lost’ 17 greens. Another ‘lost’ 10 greens) causes superintendents to err on the side of caution.

I remember Sam Newman going off at the brown look of Royal Lytham & St Anne’s when Tom Lehmann won. Now I know Newman is an idiot, but his view is not far from what the average golfer believes. I played Royal Lytham & St Anne’s a couple of years prior to The Open being played there & it was quite brown the time I was there as well & it was so much fun. Many of the greens had 3 or 4 realistic options of approach & leaving yourself with an approach from the wrong side of the fairway was a major mistake.

- The golf we see on TV from the USPGA Tour & 80% of what we see from the Euro PGA Tour is ‘Target’ golf. Having attended a few PGA Tour events as a spectator & played a few pro ams the day before some of these events, I have been surprised how ‘lush’ the courses are. Not only greens, but fairways as well.

- The expectation of a majority of golfers is a big factor as well. If you don’t give them ‘flashy’ bunkers they believe it must not be a good course. Would these two greens (if designed in context with the course) be accepted by a developer or a majority of golfers if built on a modern course.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/Zarm/Web/Golspie7thgreen.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/Zarm/Web/Brora1sta.jpg
Yet both greens offer a great challenge & are a lot of fun.

Now, all this affects the ground game & this is before we consider the architecture.

One thing that needs to be considered before the ground game is the lack of emphasis placed on the angle of approach in modern architecture.

[just]

Thanks for your inputs G69. i am obviously not an designer. I feel that if clubs had a closer look at their watering practices and where their sprinklers let water fall, that would improve things but the design has to make that shot the preferred and rewarded shot.

Saying that, how many greens in QLD slope front to back vrs the other way round? Bet you can't find 5 in toto that do that.

Pete

Thought I would start a thread that actually made people think about strategy and how they play!
As in lower at the front and higher at the back?

[Yossarian]

Good post Andrew!

[LarryLong]

Interesting thread Pete, and I wanted to weigh in, and then I thought about it and realised that I don't actually know if my local is designed to reward the ground game or not.

To me, playing the ground game means skulling my lob wedge one in every three times I use it.

Good point about the appeal of lush green grass over excellent browned-off grass fairways too. My local went a bit grey brown around Christmas time when we had a few hot days, and I heard somebody bemoaning it despite the fact that some of the lies on said fairways were excellent.

[timah!]

Those greens look awesome!

[Moe Norman]

There are greens like the 4th at RQ that are just sensational and should be replicated. Completely bunkerless, but the interest it creates and variety of shots it calls for makes it incredibly fun.

The best bit is the old nuffies that keep making 6 from the edge of the green. They can't work out where they are going wrong, and will sit in the clubhouse and tell people how the new 4th is too easy because there are no bunkers around the green, completely forgetting they just made another 6.

[Moe Norman]

These pictures dodn't do the green justice, but its incredibly hard to capture a green with a camera anyway (Pup took these I think)


http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab196/CarlingfordHS/DSCF0280.jpg

http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab196/CarlingfordHS/DSCF0281.jpg

http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab196/CarlingfordHS/DSCF0282.jpg

[petethepilot]

Thanks Andrew. Usual insightful post. I think we have tended to accept the style of golf played on the idiot box as the ideal (US PGA tout events). Play a links and get into it, really think about your shots and it is addictive! We seem to have a one type approach up here.

Played Nudgee North the other day. Course was in poor condition, but hey it is still playing unlike my course! it had a number of interesting smaller greens that although they didn't favour a ground based runup shot, they penalised a shot played from the wrong side of the fairway. I enjoyed those shots!

pete

[Jim]

There are greens like the 4th at RQ that are just sensational and should be replicated. Completely bunkerless, but the interest it creates and variety of shots it calls for makes it incredibly fun.

The best bit is the old nuffies that keep making 6 from the edge of the green. They can't work out where they are going wrong, and will sit in the clubhouse and tell people how the new 4th is too easy because there are no bunkers around the green, completely forgetting they just made another 6.
Moe, 4 at RQ is a replication from somewhere else. RQ also creates as much short game interest as any course I have played. I enjoyed it enormously.

And Moe, is it just the old nuffies that make six from the edge of the green? Glass houses my friend. Although I suppose the difference is that at least you know why you take six.

[Moe Norman]

I have never made worse than 5 on that particular hole, and I'm not sure design has anything to do with my shortcomings!

[petethepilot]

Great green (4 at RQ) Moe with plenty of short game options, but I don't think it identifies a green where a lower struck chasing shot is the preferred shot. That green is still effectively crowned and the contours throw a lower ,less wind effected shot away from the hole. I will try and come up with an example of what I mean.

Pete

[Moe Norman]

depends where you are, it certainly takes a low runner. A green that is raised doesn't mean it can't take a ground game shot. The 10th at RQ from certain ranges is best approached along the ground.

Problem in QLD is you can't be very sure of how a ball you strike along the ground will behave.

[petethepilot]

(Problem in QLD is you can't be very sure of how a ball you strike along the ground will behave.) Agreed. I think RQ does it best but probably helped by a large maintenance team, very little play and a sandy base!

Pete

[Tongueboy]

if you want ground game just go bush and play some the sand green courses that are out there. i played sand for over 20 years and prided myself on my ability to get up and down from anywhere off the green and that was ground game. I got down to 5 playing those buggers and when I went to a grass green course I got to 3 (only for a month) and that was because I could think outside the square with my short game thanks to sand greens and a sound ground game!

unfortunatly my short game is now shit!!

[petethepilot]

I don't think I could inflict sand green conditions on my Miura's!

Saying that, country golf does expand your imagination around the green. 5 is a great handicap on a bush course. They can be the toughest tests!

Pete

[Dr Turf]

Interesting topic PTP and one that my typing skills will limit my response. I like you have been lucky to travel extensively and play golf all over the world (mostly gratis too which is even better) and have found exactly what you are saying. The essence of the answer is in climate, grass and soil types. How many of the "links" courses that you mention with bouncy conditions are in warm season climates or use warm season grasses? Look at any list of top 100 courses in the USA or world and how many are on either clay or use warm season grasses throughout? I think I am correct in saying that the last Major played on Couch greens was in the late 80's (Augusta had Couch greens until 1980 ish). I think also that the 2011 PGA will be played on Couch greens although they are Ultradwarf and a world away from 328 and that is a huge step for the USPGA and it will be interesting to see the results.. As a Superintendent that grows both warm and cool season greens on the one site, I can tell you that to get Bent greens firm and running fast is simply a matter of limiting water and mowing and rolling for a week or so. To do the same with Couch greens would take either a maintenance regime that is full on (as they do at Lakelands on the GC where they have the firmest Couch greens I have played) or a concerted program for at least two months of grooming/dusting/mowing/rolling.

The problem with a maintenance program like Lakelands is that it costs money and that is something that Queensland courses in particular don't like spending. It also means a fair bit of disruption to play which isn't always possible or popular with players. You mention Nudgee GC as being in poor condition recently. A couple of years ago the Super there had a staff of six for the entire 36 holes and would run no more than 12 at the moment, more likely 10. He concentrates on his greens and to his credit in my opinion has the best greens on a year round basis in Brisbane. As a Super you can't perform miracles and most Supers (in Queensland) are not payed enough for what they do nor do they have an adequate budget to produce what golfers want/expect.

As another example, have you ever seen the latest trends of wispy/rough bunker edges used successfully in warm season climates? The answer is no unless you have a crew of 3 or 4 guys working them all the time.

I have digressed a bit but the answer to your query is almost solely related to climate and grass types. The difference between warm and cool season grasses is even wider than the rift between NSW and Qld supporters at Origin time. G69 's comments about the construction methods/requirements are also right on the money. Often greens on courses in flood prone areas are perched up so they will stay out of water during floods.

[Andrew]

Look at any list of top 100 courses in the USA or world and how many are on either clay or use warm season grasses throughout? I think I am correct in saying that the last Major played on Couch greens was in the late 80's (Augusta had Couch greens until 1980 ish). I think also that the 2011 PGA will be played on Couch greens although they are Ultradwarf and a world away from 328 and that is a huge step for the USPGA and it will be interesting to see the results.. As a Superintendent that grows both warm and cool season greens on the one site, I can tell you that to get Bent greens firm and running fast is simply a matter of limiting water and mowing and rolling for a week or so. To do the same with Couch greens would take either a maintenance regime that is full on (as they do at Lakelands on the GC where they have the firmest Couch greens I have played) or a concerted program for at least two months of grooming/dusting/mowing/rolling.


Poa & Fescue greens need to be considered in that list of grasses that don't do well in warm climates. People would be surprised how many Top 20 courses in America have Poa greens. Oakmont, Pine Valley, Pebble Beach & Wingfoot all use Poa. Of the two of those courses I have played, Pebble Beaches greens were soft & bumpy through over watering, but Pine Valley's greens were quite firm & putted well.

Fescue is the predominant grass throughout most of the links courses through the U.K. Generally around 70% Fescue, mixed with Browntop bent. Most of the Scottish courses I have played the only difference to the grass on the fairway & the grass on the greens is that the grass on the greens is shorter.

These grasses are just too difficult to keep alive in warmer climates.

[Ferrins]

First started as a RQ jnr and got early exposure to the running game, but like you say not much chance to apply it these days unless I've got the wind up my butt with a front pin or bailing out on the green or recovery from trees.

[matty]

Great thread Pete and good post Andrew. Those two greens pictured make me want to play them.

If you get the chance next time in Sydney, give Lynwood a run. Would be interested to hear what you think. You have to think about the layout of the hole on most of them. From using my driver on EVERY par 4 and 5, I use it now on only 4 holes. The course design is making me play real golf, not target golf and not bash golf.

Many of our greens are fairly elevated but you have to weigh up running it up with a 6 or 8 iron or using a wedge off a tight lie. We don't get the funneling effect you are talking about but there is a fair bit of ground game going on.

Taking into consideration what Golfer69 said I think courses could make things a bit more interesting with their design redevelopments. The last course I was a member at shaved about 2 foot off the top of a lip in front of a par 3 because women and hackers kept getting caught. Crazy stuff :evil: Where's the imagination and challenge gone?

[BrisWesty]

Matty, I like your signature

[Jim]

I'm with Tongueboy, play the occasional game on sand and you will become a ground game demon. Ground game shots aren't in the repertoire of most golfers, so they often don't consider it as an option, reaching for a more lofted club by default.


I have never made worse than 5 on that particular hole
Give it time Moe. ;)

[Ferrins]

I quite often opt for a 7 iron bump and run from inside 100m...particularly when I'm in the shank zone with the wedge.
I'll be leaving out the 7-iron in the Wynnum Cup, "there are no 7-iron shots at Wynnum"

[petethepilot]

What I mean by the ground game may be slightly different to what some of you may imagine. Sure, ground/low run shots in a short game context are part of it. What I am more referring to is a form of shotmaking where the use of humps and bumps, slopes and hollows to get at otherwise inaccessible pins. When you use the shape of the terrain it adds a new level to shotmaking, skill and satisfaction.

An example of this type of shot is the 8th hole (short) at the Old Course St Andrews. In the Open, virtually all the time the pin is tucked just behind (maybe about 8 yards) the small deep bunker, centre left. When the greens are firm or downwind, even the greatest players in the world can't fly it and stick it near that flag without the greatest risk. The bunker is deep and straight faced! Most players end up with a 30' putt. That is the dilemma of St Andrews, relatively easy par but very challenging to beat it.

There is another way as shown to me by a 2 Handicap member (60 year old BTW) of the R & A. Have a look at the diagram attached. About 8 to 10 yards short of the green and slightly right of centre, there is some mounding angled at 45 to 60 * to the direct line to the hole. This mounding is loosely associated with a bunker at the back of the 10th green. This guy played a mid iron (5 iron) on a flatish trajectory deliberately onto these mounds. The subsequent bounce angled left and up the slope onto the green. This different angle allowed the ball to roll about 8 feet past the pin (pin high). My (my shot preceded his) more normal 7 iron (downwind) landed just beyond the pin and rolled to about 45'. I of course 3 putted while he holed his. His slight smile was worth a year in a golf university. Yes, there are other ways than get a yardage and pull a club. At that moment, the greatness of St Andrews and the fascination of links golf was forever inside me!

Needless to say, the old guy smashed me in our little wager. I (off 2 at the time as well) shot 78 with 5 x 3 putts while he shot a 71 that was a triumph of shotmaking and brains!

Pete

[Ferrins]

Your Petethebunny to that old codger.

[petethepilot]

He shouted me lunch at the R & A so the least I could do is buy the Whiskey after the round Chris.

[Ferrins]

There would be a fine selection of whiskey on hand, do you remember what he had.

[petethepilot]

In fact the whiskey's are kept secret. They were single malts called ' The No 1 or The No 2' at the time, (mid 90's) the No 2 was the favoured by the members. I even have an unopened bootle at home. I will post a photo of the bottle after later on. I wonder what that bottle would be worth? The member smuggled it out for me as they don't normally let them out of the clubhouse.

Pete

p.s got to see the trophy room and the Auld mug!

[petethepilot]

The R & A No 2 Whisky!

i gave a bottle to my father as well and my Ex-Brother-in-law drank it instead of my Dads JW red label. He was cursed from that night on !

Pete

[TourFit]

The R & A No 2 Whisky!

i gave a bottle to my father as well and my Ex-Brother-in-law drank it instead of my Dads JW red label. He was cursed from that night on !

Pete

What a wanker...

[petethepilot]

Sorry Fit, i thought my father would like it! :razz:

[just]

I think I've found the solution to your problem Pete based on the info given here. Move to Melbourne.

[petethepilot]

It would be an expensive move.

..... Now wife reckons my super is worth ....., so 70 % of that figure is....... Hmm, stay in Brisbane and put up with the golf here much cheaper!

Just, I'm not trying to sound like a golf snob here. Just trying to raise an awareness that there is more to our great game than just hitting it into the air. Our geography and climate and I think uninspired designs don't encourage other options!!!

Pete

[sms316]

I've seen you putt Pete. Not sure you want to play too many shots along the ground.

[just]

It would be an expensive move.

..... Now wife reckons my super is worth ....., so 70 % of that figure is....... Hmm, stay in Brisbane and put up with the golf here much cheaper!

Just, I'm not trying to sound like a golf snob here. Just trying to raise an awareness that there is more to our great game than just hitting it into the air. Our geography and climate and I think uninspired designs don't encourage other options!!!

Pete
Pete
I know you are not trying to be a snob and I'd love those type of courses to be available in Brisbane but the land available and climate seem to ensure that we won't until grass genetic engineering improves. Having said that many of them could improve greatly on what they have already got. I played RQ in 98 and thought it was pretty uninspiring, all the reviews of the changes seem positive. While not all courses have the land or resources available to RQ they could at least make a go of it.

[Daves]

You find the odd green (in Qld) that suits this style of play, but they exist by accident I think. The more natural the green and setting, the more potential they seem to have.

The 15th at Reddie Bay is more of a ground game hole I find. Too much trouble going high. Even the tee shot is safer as a bunt (albeit a 200m odd bunt) rather than a fully blooded drive. When the pin is in its toughest position (back left), a low running shot to the right side of the green will catch the swail and channel the ball towards the pin. A direct aerial shot would have a target area of less than 5m radius by comparison.

[petethepilot]

That sounds great Dave. I am not looking to say every shot should be a ground favoured shot. I believe the ideal course makes a player think and use their full range of shots. Variety increases the challenge and hence the enjoyment. I think we have been willing as a golfing community to accept inverted bowls for too long. Mounding and swayles does not need to be on the green. They can be adjacent and still add to the shot. Of course soil/grass type does affect this but smart design can also allow this.

Given how bad I hit it Shaun, I must have been able to do something on the ground when I beat you in 09. :razz:

Pete

[TourFit]

Sorry Fit, i thought my father would like it! :razz:

I meant the ex brother in law...! :roll:

Speaking of Scotch...Mt Lawley have a Burns Day every year. They play Caledonian Foursomes (similar to Canadian Foursomes, minus the Canadians, which makes it much more fun). Many dress up with Plus Fours or tartan or bonnets etc. They have a dram or two before they play, a piper sends them on their way to the course and then they have the traditional Burns Supper afterwards (including lovely Haggis and traditional music).

Anyway, I couldn't go this year, but when I was in the clubhouse after my early morning round Sunday, they were all heading out to play...they'd had their drams and the piper was playin'. Then the barmaid dropped a box containing 5 bottles of 12yr old Single Malt Glenmorangie. WOOPS!

What a waste.

[terrys]

Nice thread, Pete.

I played at the Jockey Club course in Hong Kong last week, and after i hit wedges that pitched at the pin and bounced thorough on the first two holes, I realised it was going to be drop short and run the ball up. Once I sorted this out, it was great. Fairways were browned off couch and the greens looked like couch as well, and were really hard and fast.

This condition was a circumstance of the season though. Its cold, the couch is dying off and they haven't been using as much water. One of the guys I played with said that when you play it in the warmer months, you just hit it at the pin and it stops.

[Scottt]

Good thread, Pete.

I agree it's something you don't see much in Australia compared to overseas.

To an extent I think climate is to blame, in so much as it is coupled with budget/resources - it is possible to prepare pretty much any surface as fast and firm, but it can require $$$ that most clubs don't possess and those who have high traffic face an additional hurdle.

How much golf have you played overseas on non-elite courses (not top 100 or so in their region)? Could it be that the courses and flaws you're seeing around Brissie are indicative of mediocre courses everywhere, it's just that being where you play a lot of golf you see more of it?

While the UK is often held as the home of all things good re: golf, the large proportion of courses there also suffer from the ills - overwatering, lack of thoughtful design, not enough short grass around the greens - that give us the shits here (many of the things you say about Brissie golf are just as true at most Sydney courses).

The 18th at Fishers Island is as good an example as any of how this sort of "use the shapes to access the pin" design is not reliant on amazing natural contours. The front left lowered portion of the green, defended by a bunker, is surrounded by slopes to let the ball get close - much easier from the right but possible from the left for the player who has strayed out of position. On a half par 4-5 length hole, it's perfect: with a long club you can run it up but even with a wedge for your third the section of green is small enough that flying it close it a challenge.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1496/pa150100.jpg

Andrew: Those pics - Golspie 7 and Brora 1?

[Moe Norman]

you see plenty of it in Australia, just not in Brisbane.

I've only played about 6-10 courses in Sydney, so wouldn't really know how prevalent it is there.

[Scottt]

How much of it do you see outside the Aussie Top 50, Moe - the combination of contours and conditioning that allow such shotmaking?

[Scottt]

Just stumbled over a couple more great examples - at The Jockey Club in Argentina. Just more proof that a great natural site isn't a must for this kind of stuff.

10th

http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/jockey10f-692x432.jpg

http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/jockey10a-692x432.jpg

http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/jockey103putt-692x432.jpg

13th - backstop mounds to work the ball off

http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/jockey13ga1-692x432.jpg

[petethepilot]

Thanks Scottt, thats what I meant. Fast or at least firm and a little imagination opens a whole new world of shotmking!

BTW, your surname doesn't begin with W does it?

regards,

Pete

[Scottt]

It sure sure does, Pete.

[Daves]

Played Reddie Bay today in 30 knot + wind. Lots of ground type shots needed to keep the ball down out of the wind.

[Moe Norman]

I've seen it all over the place in Australia, in some cases the bloke who built it may not have even known he was building it.

I don't take a camera to every course, but places like Growling Frog allow for a creative ground game on several holes, Ranfurlie isn't in most Top 50's and has ample room for such creativity as well

In the more tropical climate, somewhere like the West course at Cooloongatta when the turf conditions are dry allow for it, they do have bent greens though, and a pretty average track like Pacific Harbour has whats required in the ground, and it does have the advantage of being on sand. The shapes are there in the ground to hit the shots, but the conditions often don't allow it. (2nd, 3rd, 6h and 10th spring to mind)

BTW: this just looks ugly I'm afraid.

http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/jockey13ga1-692x432.jpg

[Scottt]

G69: It's not about defence, it's about options and alternatives. Based on Ross' work at R. Syd and Bonnie D, I'm not sure he gets it, or at least views it as important.

5, 8, 13, 15 and 18 at Bonnie all scream for an alternate method of finding the green for short hitters, when the ground is hard or in high winds but all the contouring at the green works the ball away from the putting surface, not towards it.

Those holes are very much a case of "defending" the green with contouring that repels the ball away from the green. And all of them on the opposite side of the green to the "defence/hazard contouring" there is one or more bunkers - so the green is effectively sandwiched by trouble on either side.

The contouring - short and within the green - works with a running approach at the 9th, as well as being a way to access tucked RHS pins, but based on all those other examples I imagine that was an accident.