2011 AFL Season

[AndyP]

The NAB Cup draw has been released.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/pies-headline-nab-cup-super-saturday/story-e6frf9jf-1225943634546

Congratulations to the Sydney Swans on reaching the second round.

Meanwhile, Hawthorn will be sending the Box Hill Hawks side to Perth in their place.

[just]

Go Swannnies!!!

[3oneday]

Go Gold Coast.

[macjackass]

The NAB Cup draw has been released.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/pies-headline-nab-cup-super-saturday/story-e6frf9jf-1225943634546

Congratulations to the Sydney Swans on reaching the second round.

Meanwhile, Hawthorn will be sending the Box Hill Hawks side to Perth in their place.

Collingwood playing in melbourne, who'd have thought.

[WBennett]

Oh my god, conspiracy! West Coast and Freo in Perth. Who'd have thought!
Sydney and GWS in Blacktown. The horror of the travel!
Adelaide and Port in Adelaide! Shock horror.

Someone had to travel, and a pool of Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton in a lightning carnival might actually get 30-40,000 to Docklands. Not bad for a pre-season hitout - and a significantly greater gate than Sydney/GWS/Gold Coast!

[Minor_Threat]

I know the Dogs won't be going out to win the NAB Cup next year.

[Yossarian]

Go Suns!

[Moe Norman]

Someone had to travel

disgraceful that it's us though.

It's at least 2.5km from the Westpac Centre to Etihad. We're the reigning premiers and should play at home.

[Yossarian]

Meanwhile, Hawthorn will be sending the Box Hill Hawks side to Perth in their place.

You mean the same side you sent over for the final?

[macjackass]

You mean the same side you sent over for the final?

Should be more than enough to account for your mob. :razz:

[WBennett]

I might consider going to Sydney to watch the pool up there. I can't see us getting any other games in Canberra next year, that might be it...

[AndyP]

You mean the same side you sent over for the final?
We sent two sides over. One of them got stuck on the plane with President Jeff.

[LarryLong]

You mean the same side you sent over for the final?

Except for Campbell Brown, who left because he couldn't bear to play with bogans anymore.

[AndyP]

Yes, Browny was a very refined character...

[markTHEblake]

Collingwood playing in melbourne, who'd have thought.

theres nothing like starting off the new season where it was left off in the last, with completely daft comments.

[markTHEblake]

I can't even remember Andrew Krakouer., let alone his fall from grace, and if he hadn't of joined Collingwood Iwouldht have read this, but I am glad I did. This is a really good account of how a bloke can turn his life around, combined with a lot of people going out of their way to help out. To be honest doesn't seem to happen often enough with our indigenous people. Regardless of how he actually plays in the big time again, he has already 'made it'.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/how-football-saved-krakouer-20101020-16u8u.html

[AndyP]

and if he hadn't of joined Collingwood Iwouldht have read this,
And because it is a Collingwood story, I didn't read it.

[markTHEblake]

Ha!
it isnt.

[AndyP]

It's a story about a current Collingwood player, therefore it is a Collingwood story IMO.

[macjackass]

theres nothing like starting off the new season where it was left off in the last, with completely daft comments.

So they're not playing in Melbourne?

The only daft comment is your obvious bias.

[LarryLong]

I read it the other day, seeing as he's an ex-Richmond player. I hope he has a good year with the pies.

It's also the first nice thing Caroline Wilson has said about Greg Miller in ten years.

[Yossarian]

I hope Caroline Wilson gets hit by a tram this year.

[markTHEblake]

only daft comment is your obvious bias.

your good form continues.

[Moe Norman]

I'm surprised macjackass finds the time, pretty sure he was in Sydney throwing shoes yesterday

[AndyP]

The draw is out. Yay! :roll:

The Hawks don't travel to Qld until Rd 24, and miss out on a Gabba match again. We played 16 years in a row at the Gabba, and now this will make it three years in a row without playing there.

This headline should make macjackass happy: "Collingwood given dream 2011 AFL draw"

But the AFL has acknowledged their rivals' desperation to play the Pies in high-drawing home encounters means they will always have a leg up on rivals.

[Yossarian]

So it is the fault of other teams?

That isn't from The Australian is it?

[Minor_Threat]

Why do we start the season with Carltank v Richmond every year?

BTW, happy with the Dogs draw! :)

[macjackass]

I'm surprised macjackass finds the time, pretty sure he was in Sydney throwing shoes yesterday

1. I wouldn't have missed
2. The lying rodent wouldn't have gotten up

[macjackass]

your good form continues.

For some reason you don't get it.

I have never, do not currently and will never give a crap about your opinion. Some people on here give the impression that you're a decent person however nothing you've ever posted leads me to this conclusion. You're just a complete tool.

[just]

For some reason you don't get it.

I have never, do not currently and will never give a crap about your opinion. Some people on here give the impression that you're a decent person however nothing you've ever posted leads me to this conclusion. You're just a complete tool.

That's incredible! Are you sure you've never met Blakey?

[AndyP]

The Saints travel interstate for away games 6 times. That's ridiculous, when most are traveling four times.

[macjackass]

For the best team to get a draw like that is a joke.

[Minor_Threat]

For the best team to get a draw like that is a joke.I agree, however it is true that the earning capacity of the Pies for the other team is that great, it is now what is driving the fixture. The other teams are just hoping they can snag a win and make big $$$$$ in the process!

[macjackass]

I agree, however it is true that the earning capacity of the Pies for the other team is that great, it is now what is driving the fixture. The other teams are just hoping they can snag a win and make big $$$$$ in the process!

I don't have a problem with that part of it. I'm talking about how favourable the postion of the byes are and the limited travelling. Plus, they play a brand new team away, the swans at a much better venue for Collingwood (ie the swans don't like playing there, negating a big advantage) and Port (who were a basket case this year).

[Minor_Threat]

I don't have a problem with that part of it. I'm talking about how favourable the postion of the byes are and the limited travelling. Plus, they play a brand new team away, the swans at a much better venue for Collingwood (ie the swans don't like playing there, negating a big advantage) and Port (who were a basket case this year).I must admit the Bye positioning is ideal, I'm not to sure about the away games as you can never really tell who is going to be any good year by year anyway! i.e Freo this year

[macjackass]

I think you could say with a reasonable level of confidence that west coast and brisbane will be rubbish next year.

[Yossarian]

You'd be wrong about Brisbane, they got killed by injury last year.

West Coast will be better, but stilll a long way off.

[macjackass]

You'd be wrong about Brisbane, they got killed by injury last year.

West Coast will be better, but stilll a long way off.

Brisbane did get killed by injury. They then got killed in trade week. Plus, Black, Brown and Power a year older and slower. They will finish bottom 4 in my opinion. West coast will only be better as it would be hard to be much worse. Another wooden spoon coming and Worsfold will be gone, they should just do it now.

[Yossarian]

Early call but sure.

[AndyP]

Voss is only now going the youth option via the draft (2 years late). If they are not bottom 4, Yoss, who are the four worse sides?

[just]

Andy
How can it be too late? They already had plenty of youth in the side. If he had picked more they would have been the youngest side in league by a large margin. Voss's strategy was worth it even if he went a step too far. Injury and man management were the problems last year. If he can sort out those they won't be bottom 4.

[Yossarian]

West Coast, Essendon, Tigers and Gold Coast.

[macjackass]

I think Essendon will be better in 2011, Richmond will continue to improve also.

[AndyP]

Andy
How can it be too late? They already had plenty of youth in the side. If he had picked more they would have been the youngest side in league by a large margin. Voss's strategy was worth it even if he went a step too far. Injury and man management were the problems last year. If he can sort out those they won't be bottom 4.The step too far is the problem. How much value did he get out of Buchanan, Maguire, Raines and X Clarke. Staker seemed to be good filling in for injuries though. They had injuries, but so did a lot of other clubs. You can't expect to always have a full strength side.

[AndyP]

West Coast, Essendon, Tigers and Gold Coast.
I forgot that there were 17 sides. The Tigers should continue improving.

[Yossarian]

I forgot that there were 17 sides. The Tigers should continue improving.

I agree about the tigers but will they be better than the Lions? I personally don't think so. Still the proof will be in the playing.

The Bombers will stay about were they are or go backwards this year IMO. Unless Hird really is the miracle worker they are claiming him to be.

[macjackass]

Richomond only finished one win behind Brisbane and Essendon were equal with the lions.

There are numerous examples of new coaches coming and making essentially the same list improve. Knights was on the nose with the playing group, I think they'll win at least 3 more games under Hird.

[Yossarian]

I don't. The only way they can win games is that crazy breakneck running game they played. Which can backfire horribly. They don't have the personnel to play another type of game IMO. Unless he can magically turn Gumbleton and Neagle into jets and wind back Fletchers clock 5 years.

Where do you see they improvement coming from? I guess Howlett might make some major strides but the rest of the midfield is as good as it is ever going to be.

[macjackass]

I don't. The only way they can win games is that crazy breakneck running game they played. Which can backfire horribly. They don't have the personnel to play another type of game IMO. Unless he can magically turn Gumbleton and Neagle into jets and wind back Fletchers clock 5 years.

Where do you see they improvement coming from? I guess Howlett might make some major strides but the rest of the midfield is as good as it is ever going to be.

I'm pretty sure Hird has said that won't play like that (could be wrong). Injuries, plus chopping and changing the team (when changes are made for reasons other than injury) do not make for a successful season. I think the competition will be incredibly even other than the top and bottom couple.

[Yossarian]

Hird has to say they are going to be good.

Why do you think they will be better, which players that were dropped are going to make the difference?

[macjackass]

Hird has to say they are going to be good.

Why do you think they will be better, which players that were dropped are going to make the difference?

No, I meant Hird said they won't be playing the same style.

Hille missed most of the year, mark williams (a big if but if he could get his knee right) Gumbleton will be better and Prismall will be better. Plus, with Job Watson getting his leg right I see some significant improvement.

[LarryLong]

Essendon are stuffed for at least 3 years. Knights found a way to surprise a few sides and lost the rest, Hird will try to play the standard AFL gameplan and they won't manage to pull off the surprise wins. They will suck, especially in the first half of the season. My tip for the spoon.

Adelaide will be another side that will go backwards. Have you seen their retirements list?

Brisbane will head backwards too if Brown and Black have any sort of injuries, which they will. They just lost their best (by a margin) non-veteran midfielder, probably their most versatile player, and a front-running squib who still managed to kick them a few goals for all his failings. Oh, and they delisted their high quality loose cannon that might have at least stepped in and helped them be competitve. Half of the guys out injured weren't much chop anyway.

Oh, and Hawthorn. Can't do a post like this without including Hawthorn. :) Gawn!

[Yossarian]

Hille played more than half the season but they did miss him.
Prismall, not sure why he would get better he has been around awhile now and is servicable IMO but not side changing.

Key forwards do take time to develop, so Gumbleton may come along, he has never looked like a game winner though.

Mark who?

If watson can have a bigger year than this year I'd be suprised.

[Minor_Threat]

Dont forget the elite midfielder Stanton, he is a game breaker.. ;)

[macjackass]

Hille played more than half the season but they did miss him.
Prismall, not sure why he would get better he has been around awhile now and is servicable IMO but not side changing.

Key forwards do take time to develop, so Gumbleton may come along, he has never looked like a game winner though.

Mark who?

If watson can have a bigger year than this year I'd be suprised.

Mark who has twice kicked 50+ goals in a season, if he came in and did that it would be a huge plus. You were right about Hille, however he will be better as traditionally a reco takes that amount of time to get back to where you were prior to the injury. Geelong would like to have kept Primsall, I think he'll be more than decent. How can Watson not have a bigger year if he's healthy as opposed to not like he was for a lot of last year?

As you said, it's in the playing. If it paid decently on Brisbane finishing bottom four I'd get on quite happily.

[markTHEblake]

For some reason you don't get it.

Whats to get, your form now has surpassed last seasons with this gem.


I have never, do not currently and will never give a crap about your opinion. So we gotta be subject to your opinons but you reserve the right to blow off someone elses, How very magnaminous of you.


Some people on here give the impression that you're a decent person Some people on here are just blatant liars, dont trust them. But i suppose you wont give a crap about that opinon.


You're just a complete tool.thats what people usually call shit stirrers when they cant take it.

[markTHEblake]

Bit unfair that Collingwood has to play at the Gold Coast stadium this year, but will be looking forward to going.

BTW the stadium is ticking a along, most of the structure is already completed. Amazing how quickly they can get a massive project like that built, compared to say anyone thats tried to build a house :-)

[Moe Norman]

how is it a dream draw to travel interstate 4 times in the last 7 weeks of the season?

We had a horror draw in 2010 and won the flag though, so no big deal.

[markTHEblake]

True, i cant see anything in that draw that makes it a 'dream'

[AndyP]

Send your complaints to the Herald Sun. I won't shed any tears for you.

[markTHEblake]

I blame you, if you didn't mention it, i wouldn't have known, now I can barely cope.

[kingslayer33]

So any predictions for GC's season ahead?

After such a good haul in the draft I reckon there may be a few people increasing their win column figure. I think they will win 5 in 2011 and make the finals for the first time in 2013.

[Minor_Threat]

So any predictions for GC's season ahead?

After such a good haul in the draft I reckon there may be a few people increasing their win column figure. I think they will win 5 in 2011 and make the finals for the first time in 2013.I think they will win 3 games, 5 is an absolute maximum IMO.

[AndyP]

Put your house on them not losing in the first round.


I Tapatalk, therefore I am.

[Moe Norman]

They will win about 8 games, maybe more imo.

Could win a flag as soon as 2013.

[macjackass]

They will win about 8 games, maybe more imo.

Could win a flag as soon as 2013.

I think they'll win 5, can't see them winning 8. They'll be pretty decent in 2012.

[LarryLong]

Put your house on them not losing in the first round.

I'll pay that.

I think they'll pinch a few wins early and fade badly towards the end of the season. 6 wins, including one against Hawthorn with Campbell Brown king hitting at least 3 of his former team mates.

[macjackass]

I'll pay that.

I think they'll pinch a few wins early and fade badly towards the end of the season. 6 wins, including one against Hawthorn with Campbell Brown king hitting at least 3 of his former team mates.

I'd prefer he king hit Hale 3 times! What a shit pick-up.

[Yossarian]

Looking at their draw, 8 is plausible.

[macjackass]

8 wins is more than 4 teams acheived last year and double the amount of the last placed team. Any one betting on them getting 8 wins may as well go outside on a windy day and throw their cash in the air.

[Minor_Threat]

8 wins is more than 4 teams acheived last year and double the amount of the last placed team. Any one betting on them getting 8 wins may as well go outside on a windy day and throw their cash in the air.My thoughts exactly..

I realise they now have a few handy players from other clubs, but having seen them in the VFL last year they were very ordinary.

[Moe Norman]

In the VFL last year they didn't have 9 first round picks + 10 mature AFL players. They were a virtual TAC Cup side playing VFL, yet Swallow still managed 4th place in the Liston medal and he's not even their best pickup.

They have recruited the best player in the game, 2 all-australian defenders, 2 quality small running half-backs etc.

Adelaide joined the comp in 1991 with nothing even remotely close to these sorts of concessions. They finished 9th in 1991, 9th in 1992 and were up by 42 points at half time in the 1993 Prelim final against Essendon.

Port followed a similar trajectory, 9th in their first season, 10th in the second and then finals in 1999, and like Adelaide were knocked out by the Premiers (North)

Neither of these clubs had concessions even remotely similar to how good GC have it. People forget that not only did they get 9 of the first 13 picks this year, they already had taken 12 of the best 17 years olds the year before, many of whom would have been first rounders, with Weller and Toy being rated higher than Swallow.

They also have picked the eyes of out the VFL, SANFL and WAFL for mature aged gems, and have in addiiton to their recent signings of Ablett, Bock, Brown, Riscatelli, Brennan, Krakouer, Harbrow and Fraser - they also have ex AFL players like Harris, Isles & Stanley.

Their only concern is their forward line, but they might rookie a Premiership full-forward with a famous surname and plenty of teams win 8 games without a decent tall forward line. In fact West Coast won a flag, and Geelong won 2!

[kpac]

I recon they'll be surprisingly good - for some reason people are doubting the depth of the team.... On paper their youngsters are as good as most (depth beyond that may be an issue)

They'll certainly win a few games, 8 is very achievable. I'd put a carton on it mac??

[Minor_Threat]

I recon they'll be surprisingly good - for some reason people are doubting the depth of the team.... On paper their youngsters are as good as most (depth beyond that may be an issue)

They'll certainly win a few games, 8 is very achievable. I'd put a carton on it mac??If anyone local to me would put that bet up I would take it instantly, no way they will win 8!

[Moe Norman]

Looking at their draw.

Potential wins:

Round 2 - Carlton, Round 4 - Melbourne, Round 6 - Bombers, Round 7 - Brisbane, Round 11 - Eagles, Round 12 - North, Round 17 - Tigers, Round 21 - Brisbane, Round 22 - Melbourne.

That is 9 very winnable games, won't neccessarily win all of them - but lower teams normally snag a win against a top side somewhere and injuries etc can also play a part. Unlucky for them that they don't get Richmond, West Coast and Essendon twice though.

[macjackass]

Who is going to play in the ruck, Josh Fraser? Are you kidding? He wasn't even good in his "good years".

As for defenders, Bock is ok, who is the other all-australian? Campbell Brown?

Too many kids, as I said, they'll be good in a couple of years but not next year.

As for Adelaide in 1991, they didn't play kids. The younger players were 21 and older.
They won 10 games that year, 3 of them away. Those teams were Sydney who finsihed 12th, Carlton 11th and Richmond 13th. The 7 games at home were in front of rabid (and that is an understatement) fans who provided an amazing "19th man". They also copped some huge beltings away (4 over 50 and 2 by over 100)

Looking at the drawer below, which 8 games do you see them winning?

http://www.afl.com.au/fixtures/tabid/10586/default.aspx

[kpac]

I can see 10 games that they'd be a very good chance, they will not win them all. They might only win 7 of the ones that i've picked a good chances, but i'd be happy to risk an upset amongst their wins this year....

Ruck however you a absolutely spot on! I know that whitey wasn't a fan of Fraser and now he is coaching him.... i do not see it working. It's their worst position recruitment wise - i don't know if they've got any youngsters that can ruck, but fraser is fkn hopeless.

[Moe Norman]

If Fraser is fit, which he reportedly is, he is fine. Don't forget he initially hurt his knee playing as the #1 Ruck for Victoria.

They have Zac Clarke anyway, who is a good prospect. Fraser won't be the best ruck in the comp, but he'll be far from the worst. He was the #1 ruck at Collingwood for a decade and they won more than 8 games in every season except one, so its not exactly going to be a huge hindrance.

In fact, the quality of the GC midfield will make Fraser look better than he really is. Given the new sub rule is in, they'll probably use Brennan as a pinch hitting ruck as well.

[macjackass]

If Fraser is fit, which he reportedly is, he is fine. Don't forget he initially hurt his knee playing as the #1 Ruck for Victoria.

They have Zac Clarke anyway, who is a good prospect. Fraser won't be the best ruck in the comp, but he'll be far from the worst. He was the #1 ruck at Collingwood for a decade and they won more than 8 games in every season except one, so its not exactly going to be a huge hindrance.

In fact, the quality of the GC midfield will make Fraser look better than he really is. Given the new sub rule is in, they'll probably use Brennan as a pinch hitting ruck as well.

Far from the worst? Sorry but that is not the case. Quality of the gold coast midfield? Sure, one of them is quality but if Ablett gets injured they will get smashed in the midfield! Brennan gets injured just thinking about a centre bounce.

I have no problem taking your money as well as kpacs :lol:

[just]

Do you watch football at all? I don't know where you get that rubbish about Brennan and Rischitelli is pretty handy in the midfield.

[macjackass]

Do you watch football at all? I don't know where you get that rubbish about Brennan and Rischitelli is pretty handy in the midfield.

Brisbane went really well last year. For a guy with a lot of talent, Brennan has been a pretty big under achiever. Handy in the midfield is not going to it done when you have a below average ruck and your gun midfielder is getting the crap tagged out of him.

[Yossarian]

Looking at their draw.

Potential wins:

Round 2 - Carlton, Round 4 - Melbourne, Round 6 - Bombers, Round 7 - Brisbane, Round 11 - Eagles, Round 12 - North, Round 17 - Tigers, Round 21 - Brisbane, Round 22 - Melbourne.

That is 9 very winnable games, won't neccessarily win all of them - but lower teams normally snag a win against a top side somewhere and injuries etc can also play a part. Unlucky for them that they don't get Richmond, West Coast and Essendon twice though.

They were basically the games I had picked out. Why won't they win them mackjack?

[macjackass]

They were basically the games I had picked out. Why won't they win them mackjack?

Too many kids, unproven coach. They might win them, I just don't think they will. Even though they have the stellar duo of Rischitelli and Brennan :roll:

[Moe Norman]

Their midfield is guaranteed to consist of:

Ablett - best player in the game
Riscatelli - reigning B&F winner
Brennan - 27 year old #3 pick starting to flourish in recent years
Swallow - 4th in the Liston Trophy at the age of 18


Other potential AFL experienced midfielders:

Jarrod Harbrow - Close to AA in 2010 for the Dogs
Sam Isles - R/up 2009 Liston Trophy
Danny Stanley - Dual B&F winner in Collingwood's VFL side
Daniel Harris - 150 gamer from North Melbourne
Nathan Krakouer - talented 50 gamer from Port

Young midfielders:

Weller - taken as a 17 year old, would have been #1 pick this year
Toy - taken as 17 year old, would have been Top 10 pick this year
Russell - as above
Matera - as above (good bloodlines too!)
McKenzie - as above, or Top 20 at least
Jolly - as above, probably Top 30
Bennell - Pick 2, 2010 Draft
Prestia - Pick 9, 2010 Draft


Lets assume, not ALL first round draft picks are guns (I can't remember the last midfielder taken first round that wasn't) and a few fail. Thats still an amazing array of talent.

Melbourne won 10(?) games this year with a midfield nowhere near the qualilty of experienced players or draftees as that.

[just]

Brisbane went really well last year. For a guy with a lot of talent, Brennan has been a pretty big under achiever. Handy in the midfield is not going to it done when you have a below average ruck and your gun midfielder is getting the crap tagged out of him.
Brisbane's midfield wasn't the problem, the decimated back and forward line were. Brennan's hasn't lived up to promise no doubt, but he's a good midfielder with flashes of brilliance. Which is beside the point because you were claiming that he was somehow injury prone when it comes to bounces, he isn't, he's a handy pinch hitter which may be enough due to next year's rules changes, which may effect the ruck more than any other area. And you've answered my question you know nothing about Brennan or Rischitelli.

[Yossarian]

Too many kids, unproven coach. They might win them, I just don't think they will. Even though they have the stellar duo of Rischitelli and Brennan :roll:

They are both good to very good players. The kids are all top ten picks so I think they will be ok.

Mckenna has a pretty good rep.
I think they will do well, the forward line is going to hurt them a little that is about it. As long as they can block decently for abblett they will be in business.

[Moe Norman]

Lets

[Minor_Threat]

Their midfield is guaranteed to consist of:

Ablett - best player in the game
Riscatelli - reigning B&F winner
Brennan - 27 year old #3 pick starting to flourish in recent years
Swallow - 4th in the Liston Trophy at the age of 18


Other potential AFL experienced midfielders:

Jarrod Harbrow - Close to AA in 2010 for the Dogs
Sam Isles - R/up 2009 Liston Trophy
Danny Stanley - Dual B&F winner in Collingwood's VFL side
Daniel Harris - 150 gamer from North Melbourne
Nathan Krakouer - talented 50 gamer from Port

Young midfielders:

Weller - taken as a 17 year old, would have been #1 pick this year
Toy - taken as 17 year old, would have been Top 10 pick this year
Russell - as above
Matera - as above (good bloodlines too!)
McKenzie - as above, or Top 20 at least
Jolly - as above, probably Top 30
Bennell - Pick 2, 2010 Draft
Prestia - Pick 9, 2010 Draft


Lets assume, not ALL first round draft picks are guns (I can't remember the last midfielder taken first round that wasn't) and a few fail. Thats still an amazing array of talent.

Melbourne won 10(?) games this year with a midfield nowhere near the qualilty of experienced players or draftees as that.IMO Ablett and Risca are the only ones who have the tank to be an AFL standard midfielder next year. The young guys haven't got it in them straight away and with reduced subs it will be even harder. I think they will struggle for legs at the end of games!

[macjackass]

Brisbane's midfield wasn't the problem, the decimated back and forward line were. Brennan's hasn't lived up to promise no doubt, but he's a good midfielder with flashes of brilliance. Which is beside the point because you were claiming that he was somehow injury prone when it comes to bounces, he isn't, he's a handy pinch hitter which may be enough due to next year's rules changes, which may effect the ruck more than any other area. And you've answered my question you know nothing about Brennan or Rischitelli.

You said Rischitelli was handy, not me. So maybe you should re-read what you have posted before you make stupid comments. So Brennan doesn't have a lot of talent who has underacheived? I guess you're right and the majority of experts are wrong.

[macjackass]

They are both good to very good players. The kids are all top ten picks so I think they will be ok.

Mckenna has a pretty good rep.
I think they will do well, the forward line is going to hurt them a little that is about it. As long as they can block decently for abblett they will be in business.

McKenna has a good rep? To my knowledge he has coached ZERO afl games. They'll want to have a good midfield cos when it gets kicked in the forward line it's going to come back in a hurry. Who's going to take the other tall forward after Bock gets one?

[just]

You said Rischitelli was handy, not me. So maybe you should re-read what you have posted before you make stupid comments.
Handy meaning quite good. You're the one claiming good or very good isn't going to be enough.

So Brennan doesn't have a lot of talent who has underacheived? I guess you're right and the majority of experts are wrong.
I don't get what you are trying to say. How is what I've said any different to most experts, I said Brennan hasn't lived up to his promise but that doesn't make him a crap player. Are you claiming he is?

[Yossarian]

McKenna coached Claremont with a notable degree of success and was well thought of and did a good job at Collingwood. I think he will be fine.

I am not a massive expert on their list but I imagine they have other key defenders on the list. And the teams cited as potential wins for them don't have amazing forward lines. Which is one of the reason they are potential wins.

[Moe Norman]

Lets put their concessions into perspective and use the 2005 draft as an example.

So first, they get the 12 best 17 year olds a year out from the draft. So not using the benefit of hindsight, we just grab the first 12 of the 17 year olds drafted in that period.

So that would be the following players:

Deledio, Roughhead, Griffen, Tambling, Lewis, Meesen, Egan, Russell, Bate, Wood, Monfries, McQualter (miss out on on Buddy and a few others as they were too old)

Then you take their concession picks that were 1,2,3,5,7,9,10,11,13,39,49

That would be the following players:

Murphy, Thomas, Ellis, Pendlebury, Ryder, Clark, Drum, Higgins, Birchall, Warnock, Buckley

Then they also have the first 10 picks in the upcoming rookie draft:

(I won't list them all, just the successes from the first 10)

Porplyzia, Toovey, Graham, Duffield.

So when you look at that, their potential first up team had their first year been 2006 would have looked something like:

B:Brown Bock Krakouer
HB:Birchall Ryder Duffield
C:Deledio Pendlebury Griffen
HF:Thomas Clark Higgins
F:Lewis Roughhead Porplyzia
Foll: Warnock Muprhy Ablett

Pick whatever interchange players you like from the remains that include a few premiership players, AA's and B&F winners.

Now this draft may or may not be as good as 05, but its a scary thought.

[macjackass]

Handy meaning quite good. You're the one claiming good or very good isn't going to be enough.

I don't get what you are trying to say. How is what I've said any different to most experts, I said Brennan hasn't lived up to his promise but that doesn't make him a crap player. Are you claiming he is?

Rischitelli is a decent player, he's no world-beater though. He's not an elite midfielder by any stretch. Brennan's best is unbelievable but there is a massive gap between that and his worst.

[AndyP]

Jarrod Harbrow - Close to AA in 2010 for the Dogs
Sam Isles - R/up 2009 Liston Trophy
Danny Stanley - Dual B&F winner in Collingwood's VFL side
Daniel Harris - 150 gamer from North Melbourne
Nathan Krakouer - talented 50 gamer from Port
Besides Harbrow, there's nothing that special there either. They would be depth players for other clubs, and not starting 22 I would think (although I don't know much about Krakouer).


Lets assume, not ALL first round draft picks are guns (I can't remember the last midfielder taken first round that wasn't) and a few fail.
Tambling comes to mind straight away.

[macjackass]

Lets put their concessions into perspective and use the 2005 draft as an example.

So first, they get the 12 best 17 year olds a year out from the draft. So not using the benefit of hindsight, we just grab the first 12 of the 17 year olds drafted in that period.

So that would be the following players:

Deledio, Roughhead, Griffen, Tambling, Lewis, Meesen, Egan, Russell, Bate, Wood, Monfries, McQualter (miss out on on Buddy and a few others as they were too old)

Then you take their concession picks that were 1,2,3,5,7,9,10,11,13,39,49

That would be the following players:

Murphy, Thomas, Ellis, Pendlebury, Ryder, Clark, Drum, Higgins, Birchall, Warnock, Buckley

Then they also have the first 10 picks in the upcoming rookie draft:

(I won't list them all, just the successes from the first 10)

Porplyzia, Toovey, Graham, Duffield.

So when you look at that, their potential first up team had their first year been 2006 would have looked something like:

B:Brown Bock Krakouer
HB:Birchall Ryder Duffield
C:Deledio Pendlebury Griffen
HF:Thomas Clark Higgins
F:Lewis Roughhead Porplyzia
Foll: Warnock Muprhy Ablett

Pick whatever interchange players you like from the remains that include a few premiership players, AA's and B&F winners.

Now this draft may or may not be as good as 05, but its a scary thought.

Moe, I don't think anyone doubts that they will be very good. If they'd gone after a quality key forward and a quality ruck they'd have a real crack at 8 wins.

[macjackass]

McKenna coached Claremont with a notable degree of success and was well thought of and did a good job at Collingwood. I think he will be fine.

I am not a massive expert on their list but I imagine they have other key defenders on the list. And the teams cited as potential wins for them don't have amazing forward lines. Which is one of the reason they are potential wins.

A WAFL coach? An assistant well thought of? I'm pretty sure Matthew Knights was well thought of, too.

[Yossarian]

Round 2 - Carlton.
Round 4 - Melbourne,
Round 6 - Bombers,
Round 7 - Brisbane,
Round 11 - Eagles,
Round 12 - North,
Round 17 - Tigers,
Round 21 - Brisbane,
Round 22 - Melbourne.

Why do they need an amazing ruck and a key forward to win these games.

As has been said sides have one the cup without key forwards in the past decade.

The ruck is important but Fraser is servicable.

[Moe Norman]

IMO Ablett and Risca are the only ones who have the tank to be an AFL standard midfielder next year. The young guys haven't got it in them straight away and with reduced subs it will be even harder. I think they will struggle for legs at the end of games!

You mean like Scully, Trengove, Martin, Morabito, Bastinac, Cunnington etc etc failed to run out games in 2010?

Or any other top rated picks from the previous year like Hill, Rich, Sidebottom, Hartlett, Beams, Hanneberry and the list goes on?

Pretty sure they all played pretty well, and in fact none of them had the benefit of being in a full AFL Program and playing VFL against men for the 12 months prior to their first year like many of the youngsters at GC Suns.


Who's going to take the other tall forward after Bock gets one?

Michael Coad or Campbell Brown, maybe even John Anthony if they pick him up.

[Yossarian]

A WAFL coach? An assistant well thought of? I'm pretty sure Matthew Knights was well thought of, too.

In some circles yes he was. I am pretty sure McKenna was better thought of and had much more success at the WAFL type level. Could be wrong though.

[Moe Norman]

Tambling comes to mind straight away.

1. He is only considered a failure because Franklin went with the very next pick.
2. You've found 1 'potential' failure 6 drafts ago, that was picked by Richmond
3. He has still played over 100 games and was rated highly enough for Adelaide to give a 2nd round pick for only 1 month ago
4. He was drafted a small forward
5. He'd get a game at Hawthorn right now, without question. Will they win 8 games?

[macjackass]

You mean like Scully, Trengove, Martin, Morabito, Bastinac, Cunnington etc etc failed to run out games in 2010?

Or any other top rated picks from the previous year like Hill, Rich, Sidebottom, Hartlett, Beams, Hanneberry and the list goes on?

Pretty sure they all played pretty well, and in fact none of them had the benefit of being in a full AFL Program and playing VFL against men for the 12 months prior to their first year like many of the youngsters at GC Suns.



Michael Coad or Campbell Brown, maybe even John Anthony if they pick him up.

John Anthony = plodder, next.
Michael who? You're going to put a an 86kg journeyman against an AFL key forward?
Campbell Brown, I've seen plenty of him being a hawks supporter. He'd go really well against a Jonathon Brown.

If Bock got hurt they'd have big problems.

[Moe Norman]

Moe, I don't think anyone doubts that they will be very good. If they'd gone after a quality key forward and a quality ruck they'd have a real crack at 8 wins.

If they had a guaranteed top quality key forward and a 'quality ruck' they would be having a crack at the Top 6, never mind 8 wins.

Still, they have picked up Day and Lynch who come with amazing ratings from recruiters. They will also likely get N.Ablett who is a premiership winning FF and are in the hunt for John Anthony, a 22 year old with a 50 goal AFL season in his kit bag.


A WAFL coach? An assistant well thought of? I'm pretty sure Matthew Knights was well thought of, too.

The AFL pretty much had the pick of AFL assistant coaches, and chose McKenna - so that means he was pretty highly rated. Brad Scott won more than 8 games this year with a young list like GC's will be, and less coaching credentials than McKenna. Chris Scott will win more than 8 games next year! Vossy made the finals in his first year as coach with no credentials at all.


In some circles yes he was. I am pretty sure McKenna was better thought of and had much more success at the WAFL type level. Could be wrong though.

He wouldn't have got the job if he wasn't rated the best available coach in the country at the time.

[Yossarian]

Mackjack yes they would have problems against the good sides with a good depth of key forwards like the pies, saints ect.

Against the sides listed it isn't going to be that much of an issue IMO. It will be average player v average player.

[Moe Norman]

John Anthony = plodder, next.
Michael who? You're going to put a an 86kg journeyman against an AFL key forward?
Campbell Brown, I've seen plenty of him being a hawks supporter. He'd go really well against a Jonathon Brown.

If Bock got hurt they'd have big problems.

Interesting. Given you're a hawks supporter, who will be taking Jonathon Brown next year and will Hawthorn win more than 8 games?

If Hawthorn had a key defender, I'd ask who would take Brown if he got injured. But there is nobody to get injured.

Campbell Brown has played on Reiwolt, Lucas, Hall and Bradshaw with reasonable success. Probably due to the above mentioned lack of any decent tall defenders at Hawthorn.

As for Anthony, I wouldn't mind kicking 50 goals in my first full AFL season before being injured and struggling to break into the Premiership side that only lost 4 games all year. If that makes him a plodder, then wow.

[macjackass]

Mackjack yes they would have problems against the good sides with a good depth of key forwards like the pies, saints ect.

Against the sides listed it isn't going to be that much of an issue IMO. It will be average player v average player.

It will be an average but hardened afl player v a kid with a skinny body and potential to be a very good player.
Collingwood has one very decent key forward (but can't kick straight) They have very little drop off after the top 10, hence why they are so good at the moment.

[AndyP]

1. He is only considered a failure because Franklin went with the very next pick.
2. You've found 1 'potential' failure 6 drafts ago, that was picked by Richmond
3. He has still played over 100 games and was rated highly enough for Adelaide to give a 2nd round pick for only 1 month ago
4. He was drafted a small forward
5. He'd get a game at Hawthorn right now, without question. Will they win 8 games?No need to be so defensive. I was just noting that he came to mind as an early draft pick that hadn't done much. I'd consider someone that can't regularly get a game in a cellar dweller as a bit of a failure.

I don't care enough to address the rest.

[macjackass]

Interesting. Given you're a hawks supporter, who will be taking Jonathon Brown next year and will Hawthorn win more than 8 games?

If Hawthorn had a key defender, I'd ask who would take Brown if he got injured. But there is nobody to get injured.

Campbell Brown has played on Reiwolt, Lucas, Hall and Bradshaw with reasonable success. Probably due to the above mentioned lack of any decent tall defenders at Hawthorn.

As for Anthony, I wouldn't mind kicking 50 goals in my first full AFL season before being injured and struggling to break into the Premiership side that only lost 4 games all year. If that makes him a plodder, then wow.

You might laugh but Croad was a big loss. Josh Gibson was not what we needed, too small.
If Dawes is keeping Anthony out then nothing more need be said. He's a big unit and that's the best thing I could say about him. Maybe they could "tarrant" him and he might be servicable as a backman.

Considering Brown played when we gave them a 75 point hiding (minus Buddy) I'd say Gilham probably had a fair day.

[Moe Norman]

Define 'regular' ?

He's played over 100 in 6 seasons, and he sure as hell hasn't played any finals. By my maths he has averaged 18 games a year from debut, including 2 huge hamstring tears and only 12 in his first season.

So he's pretty much been picked every time he's been available since being drafted.

[macjackass]

1. He is only considered a failure because Franklin went with the very next pick.
2. You've found 1 'potential' failure 6 drafts ago, that was picked by Richmond
3. He has still played over 100 games and was rated highly enough for Adelaide to give a 2nd round pick for only 1 month ago
4. He was drafted a small forward
5. He'd get a game at Hawthorn right now, without question. Will they win 8 games?

1. He's a flop, end of story. They picked him before the most electrifying forward in the game.
2. He'd have been delisted by just about every club by now if it wasn't Richmond
3. See above, it's Richmond FFS.
4. So, he hasn't performed.
5. That's such a stuipid comment, can't believe I wasted 10 seconds replying to it.

[Minor_Threat]

You mean like Scully, Trengove, Martin, Morabito, Bastinac, Cunnington etc etc failed to run out games in 2010?

Or any other top rated picks from the previous year like Hill, Rich, Sidebottom, Hartlett, Beams, Hanneberry and the list goes on?

Pretty sure they all played pretty well, and in fact none of them had the benefit of being in a full AFL Program and playing VFL against men for the 12 months prior to their first year like many of the youngsters at GC Suns.



Michael Coad or Campbell Brown, maybe even John Anthony if they pick him up.They played pretty well yes. Their fitness and ability to run out a game was not upto the standards of guys with 3-4 years under their belt. This is what GC will be up against next year.

I have no doubt they will be a quality side one day, I just don't believe they have the cattle to win 8 games next year.

[kpac]

Even money in my books GCFC v HAWKS. Both teams would be even money to win 8 imo... And i'd prefer the bet on the GC

[macjackass]

They played pretty well yes. Their fitness and ability to run out a game was not upto the standards of guys with 3-4 years under their belt. This is what GC will be up against next year.

I have no doubt they will be a quality side one day, I just don't believe they have the cattle to win 8 games next year.

Spot on, MT.

He's defending Richard Tambling now, he's clearly lost the plot.

[Moe Norman]

You might laugh but Croad was a big loss. Josh Gibson was not what we needed, too small.
If Dawes is keeping Anthony out then nothing more need be said. He's a big unit and that's the best thing I could say about him. Maybe they could "tarrant" him and he might be servicable as a backman.

Considering Brown played when we gave them a 75 point hiding (minus Buddy) I'd say Gilham probably had a fair day.

Which just goes to show, any spud can beat a good key forward if their midfield is dominating, especially when said forward is injured and lame.

Why would we move our 21 year old Premiership Full-Forward to defence? Especially when we already have 2 x 21 year old Premiership key defenders + Tarrant?

Dawes will monster whoever Hawthorn play on him next year.

[macjackass]

Even money in my books GCFC v HAWKS. Both teams would be even money to win 8 imo... And i'd prefer the bet on the GC

A fool and his money are soon parted.

I'm at the front of the queue to take some of yours. How about 50 on the eight wins and another 50 on Hawthorn winning more games than the gold coast? I'll PM you my accound details now.

[Moe Norman]

They played pretty well yes. Their fitness and ability to run out a game was not upto the standards of guys with 3-4 years under their belt. This is what GC will be up against next year.



Interesting comment from a Dogs supporter, given Tom Scully had 18 last quarter disposals against the Dogs in Round 7, out of total of 39. In the wet I might add, it was worth 3 brownlow votes, despite the Dogs sneaking a lucky win.

Sidebottom, in his first year as late as the Semi Final against Adelaide was BOG in a dominant 2nd half display to get Collingwood back from a 6 goal defecit.

In fact, if anyone can find any semblance of evidence that Scully, Trengove, Martin, Sidebottom, Beams, Hanneberry, Rich, Hill, Morabito, Bastinac etc struggled to run out games, I'd like to see it. Pretty sure most of them played 20+ games and had outstanding seasons.

Also worth noting that 13 of the GC youngsters have already had a full year in the AFL system as professional players, not something most 1st year players get. They also have the best player in the game in their midfield with them.

[macjackass]

Which just goes to show, any spud can beat a good key forward if their midfield is dominating, especially when said forward is injured and lame.

Why would we move our 21 year old Premiership Full-Forward to defence? Especially when we already have 2 x 21 year old Premiership key defenders + Tarrant?

Dawes will monster whoever Hawthorn play on him next year.

Dawes is in the bottom 3 of your premiership team. In the first grand final he got smashed by a much smaller opponent.
Speaking of spuds, hopefully 2011 will be the year maxwell gets found out and actually has to play on someone. Worst premiership captain I can remember.

[macjackass]

Interesting comment from a Dogs supporter, given Tom Scully had 18 last quarter disposals against the Dogs in Round 7, out of total of 39. In the wet I might add, it was worth 3 brownlow votes, despite the Dogs sneaking a lucky win.

Sidebottom, in his first year as late as the Semi Final against Adelaide was BOG in a dominant 2nd half display to get Collingwood back from a 6 goal defecit.

In fact, if anyone can find any semblance of evidence that Scully, Trengove, Martin, Sidebottom, Beams, Hanneberry, Rich, Hill, Morabito, Bastinac etc struggled to run out games, I'd like to see it. Pretty sure most of them played 20+ games and had outstanding seasons.

Also worth noting that 13 of the GC youngsters have already had a full year in the AFL system as professional players, not something most 1st year players get. They also have the best player in the game in their midfield with them.

Also worth noting they didn't play against AFL players in AFL matches.

[Minor_Threat]

Interesting comment from a Dogs supporter, given Tom Scully had 18 last quarter disposals against the Dogs in Round 7, out of total of 39. In the wet I might add, it was worth 3 brownlow votes, despite the Dogs sneaking a lucky win.

Sidebottom, in his first year as late as the Semi Final against Adelaide was BOG in a dominant 2nd half display to get Collingwood back from a 6 goal defecit.

In fact, if anyone can find any semblance of evidence that Scully, Trengove, Martin, Sidebottom, Beams, Hanneberry, Rich, Hill, Morabito, Bastinac etc struggled to run out games, I'd like to see it. Pretty sure most of them played 20+ games and had outstanding seasons.

Also worth noting that 13 of the GC youngsters have already had a full year in the AFL system as professional players, not something most 1st year players get. They also have the best player in the game in their midfield with them.I'm well aware of Scullys performance in that game I was there. What you are failing to see is those performances are rare for a 1st or 2nd year player, due to them not being upto the rigors of AFL games and the associated training.

They had outstanding seasons for 1st year players. When you compare to your everyday regular AFL player i.e. Boyd, Cross, Watson, Jack, Rawlings etc they were are not there yet and have a while to go.

[Moe Norman]

Also worth noting that none of the draftees from the previous years did either, although I'd correct you and say that the blokes at GC this year played plenty of games against AFL listed players.

We don't have a bottom 3 in our dominant premiership side, everyone is important.

I do like that Maxwell got found out, after being All-Australian in 2009, he was Premiership Captain in 2010.

I can remember a much worse Premiership Captain from only 2 years ago. Sam Mitchell got flogged on the day, resorted to throwing cheap shots at Ablett, has never been All-Australian and only 2 years later has been discreetly sacked from the captaincy :)

Maxwell on the other hand, played one of the more inspirational captains games you will ever see in the drawn GF.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/images/uploadedfiles/editorial/pictures/2010/10/20/MAXWELL_SIDE_IMAGE_300PX_F10246680_360328.JPG

[macjackass]

Also worth noting that none of the draftees from the previous years did either, although I'd correct you and say that the blokes at GC this year played plenty of games against AFL listed players.

We don't have a bottom 3 in our dominant premiership side, everyone is important.

I do like that Maxwell got found out, after being All-Australian in 2009, he was Premiership Captain in 2010.

I can remember a much worse Premiership Captain from only 2 years ago. Sam Mitchell got flogged on the day, resorted to throwing cheap shots at Ablett, has never been All-Australian and only 2 years later has been discreetly sacked from the captaincy :)

Maxwell on the other hand, played one of the more inspirational captains games you will ever see in the drawn GF.

That's hilarious. That was meant to be funny, right? Zoning off medium defenders are a dime a dozen. Midfielders who win the hard ball, not quite. Hodge is a better captain, Mitchell will be better for not having it.

Inspirational captains game, comedy post of the year.

[Moe Norman]

If it was so easy, everyone would do it, and they would do it as well as Maxwell does.

Perhaps you should watch the game again.

Even noted Magpie/Maxwell hater Robert Walls was eating humble pie



The man of last week's grand final was supposed to be Nick Riewoldt, the brilliant St Kilda captain. While he proceeds to today's replay with his honour intact, it is the other Nick, the Collingwood captain, who enhanced a reputation that has grown by the year.

Just as Brendon Goddard's spectacular mark and Lenny Hayes' long-range goal in last week's tie barely need citation, the match-saving efforts of the Collingwood skipper have been dissected at length this week but, given their grandness, it does no harm to salute them again.

There was, of course, the frantic dash early in the last term to run down what appeared a certain goal for Riewoldt. The footage shows Maxwell flying like Superman through the goal square to stave off the shot that bounced and bobbled towards the line.

Then, with the Magpies trailing for the first time all day, Maxwell brilliantly intercepted what seemed a likely mark to Sam Gilbert and hit the ground running with the clock ticking towards disaster to single handedly engineer the goal that reclaimed the lead for Collingwood.

It was, according to Carlton's 1997 premiership coach Robert Walls, an act of inspiration.

"He has taken a ripper mark on the wing with only a couple of seconds left on the clock,"

"Normally he would double-fist it away but he just threw himself, took the mark, hit the ground and then came through the corridor . . . and set up a goal. I thought it was just inspiring."

It is the regularity of those acts on the field that has elevated Maxwell in the eyes of Robert Walls.

"He is a standout leader," he said. "You want a lot of things from your leaders, but the most important thing is to lead with your actions. And at crucial moments during the game, a couple of things that he did were nothing short of inspiring and he doesn't just do that in a final, he does that week in and week out.

"He set a very high benchmark and he will do exactly the same thing this week. That is what makes him one of the best AFL Captains."

[macjackass]

If it was so easy, everyone would do it, and they would do it as well as Maxwell does.

Perhaps you should watch the game again.

Once was more than enough. Not playing on someone and blocking space/being 3rd man up is not tough. It's the way they play. I can't imagine any coach if they were offered Mitchell or Maxwell that they'd take Maxwell.

[macjackass]

If it was so easy, everyone would do it, and they would do it as well as Maxwell does.

Perhaps you should watch the game again.

Even noted Magpie/Maxwell hater Robert Walls was eating humble pie

Robert Walls, enough said.

[Moe Norman]

Once was more than enough. Not playing on someone and blocking space/being 3rd man up is not tough. It's the way they play. I can't imagine any coach if they were offered Mitchell or Maxwell that they'd take Maxwell.

17 AFL coaches would take Maxwell, including Clarkson

[markTHEblake]

I think they will win 3 games, 5 is an absolute maximum IMO.

Sean Hart (assistant coach) said to a bunch of us (in private; ie not to media) that they expect to win about that - i thought it was 4-6 games, and to make the finals in their 4th year.
I posted exactly what he said here at ozgolf about the same day he said it, so if you wanted the word for word account you could search through all my past dribble, but i dont recommend that.

[AndyP]

Moe, you're arguing just for the sake of arguing.

You can't defend Tambling as a successful top draft pick and quoting Robert Walls, except to laugh at him, is a no-no.


I Tapatalk, therefore I am.

[markTHEblake]

I can recall a lot of people championing West Coasts entry into the V/FL and were a walk up start to make the finals in their first year (well mostly the west australians that I knew), as they were a ready made squad of very good players, given that the trend was that not all of the best moved to melbourne.

Well I cant remember how many games they missed out on the finals by, but the $20 bet I made was paid up before the end of the season. :-)

[LarryLong]

1. He's a flop, end of story. They picked him before the most electrifying forward in the game.
2. He'd have been delisted by just about every club by now if it wasn't Richmond
3. See above, it's Richmond FFS.
4. So, he hasn't performed.
5. That's such a stuipid comment, can't believe I wasted 10 seconds replying to it.

Moe is spot on.

As a Richmond supporter, I probably should hate Tambling more than anybody in the world, but here's the truth. He's a good player who has been unfairly pilloried for his entire career by people who have never really bothered to watch him play, merely because Richmond chose him over Franklin.

It really makes no difference who they picked him before, or why. Is he an AFL quality player? Of course he is. I guess the fact that Adelaide traded a decent draft pick for him makes the claim that he would have been delisted from every AFL club by now just a little silly.

Face it folks, Tambling has ability and will be playing in the AFL for a while yet. It was only 18 months ago that he was having a really good season and there were articles all over the papers about how his selection was looking much more justified (Franklin wasn't playing so well at the time, if you recall). Tambling went backwards last year (Seemingly because the coach wanted to use other players in his preferred role, for whatever reason, and quotes from his management about his move to Adelaide back this up) but still played most of the games and will get a game for Adelaide next year.

Anyway, I don't have to defend him anymore, but I do tire of hearing the same old ignorant chestnuts trotted out. Tambling-Franklin pales into insignificance against Thorp-Selwood.

As for the rest of this thread, Moe makes some very good points about the GC list - it is actually better than you think when you really look at it.

On the other hand, Maxwell is a flog, albeit a premiership captain flog. Put Mitchell in a Richmond jumper and he would drive the midfield and improve the team. Put Maxwell in a Richmond jumper and he would spend the afternoon abusing his team-mates for not picking up his man for him.

[AndyP]

Larry, I'm not saying that Tambling is a bad player. He's not, he is an AFL player that has plenty of potential and Adelaide will benefit from it. The fact is, he has not matched the potential of a top 5 draft pick.

First round draft pick in a strong draft eventually traded for a second round draft pick in a compromised draft. Umm, that's a loss. How is this something you can use as a positive in your argument?

Let's recall Moe's initial quote.


Lets assume, not ALL first round draft picks are guns (I can't remember the last midfielder taken first round that wasn't) and a few fail. Thats still an amazing array of talent.
If the argument is that he isn't a midfielder, then fine. If he is, then he definitely isn't a "gun". Note that Moe still didn't squeeze him into his starting 22 in his followup post.

[LarryLong]

Larry, I'm not saying that Tambling is a bad player. He's not, he is an AFL player that has plenty of potential and Adelaide will benefit from it. The fact is, he has not matched the potential of a top 5 draft pick.

My response was more directed at MacJack's 'he's crap' stance than yours. I think he suffered from being physically under-developed when he started, but because he was playing at Richmond he still got a game. That didn't do his reputation much good. Had he been at a more successful club that could have used him as a 'luxury' player, I think he would have had a much better time of it. Besides, he's matched the potential of a few top 5 draft picks - Luke Livingston, Xavier Clarke, Tim Walsh, Colin Sylvia, Farren Ray, Brock McLean are all top 5 picks. Other than Deledio and Griffen who were taken before him, Jordan Lewis is probably the only other midfielder from the 2004 draft that has clearly surpassed him career-wise. I'll still back him to finish his career as one of the better players from his draft year.


First round draft pick in a strong draft eventually traded for a second round draft pick in a compromised draft. Umm, that's a loss. How is this something you can use as a positive in your argument?

It was actually an end of round 1 concession pick for any one of the next five drafts and a late pick (50), which is reasonably substantial for a 24 year old. Brock McLean was swapped for pick 11 and Xavier Clarke went for pick 60 the year before. It's pretty rare for a player to be exchanged for anything better than a late first round or early second round pick.


Let's recall Moe's initial quote.

If the argument is that he isn't a midfielder, then fine. If he is, then he definitely isn't a "gun". Note that Moe still didn't squeeze him into his starting 22 in his followup post.

I'll agree, he's somewhere between a gun and a dud. I just get annoyed when everybody rolls out the dud line.

[Moe Norman]

Larry, I'm not saying that Tambling is a bad player. He's not, he is an AFL player that has plenty of potential and Adelaide will benefit from it. The fact is, he has not matched the potential of a top 5 draft pick.

First round draft pick in a strong draft eventually traded for a second round draft pick in a compromised draft. Umm, that's a loss. How is this something you can use as a positive in your argument?

Let's recall Moe's initial quote.

If the argument is that he isn't a midfielder, then fine. If he is, then he definitely isn't a "gun". Note that Moe still didn't squeeze him into his starting 22 in his followup post.

my quote clearly states that not ALL of them are guns, I then stated you can even take a 33% failure rate for the GC first round picks and still end up with an incredible squad.

As for Tambling, it depends on what is determined as a failure. He played 100 games, and will probably be a 200 gamer. Less than 10% of AFL players play 200 games, and I doubt 10% of the players from his draft will play 200 games, which would then make him in the Top 10% wouldn't it?

Josh Fraser went #1 and played exactly 200 games for Collingwood. If you take the view that Pavlich went at #4 then sure it was a failure. But he still gave 200 games service and was one of the best players from that draft. Of the Top 10 from 1999, only Fraser, Pavlich, Corey, L.Brown and McPharlin are still in the AFL, so only half of them. So if you expect the #1 pick to absolutely be the best player from the draft, then it was a failure - but in terms of picking a 17 year old kid and getting 200 games out of him, then its not.

Picking blokes like Mitch Thorpe, Beau Dowler, Danny Roach, Cadyn Beetham with single figure picksetc - now they are failures.

[AndyP]

Moe, go back and read your post then my reply to your post. You said you couldn't recall any that weren't guns. I replied with one. I didn't argue against your post. The end. Cheers.

[Moe Norman]

I said I couldn't recall the last midfielder than wasn't. You went back 6 years and found a small forward.

The End (sort of)

It was actually viewed as a surprise that Tambling slipped to Richmond at #4 and Hawthorn have also admitted they would have taken him at #5 had he still been there, even if franklin was left unselected.

Here is an article just prior to the draft:

2 - HAWTHORN - Richard Tambling
(Southern Districts), 12 September 1986, 181cm, 74kg

With Deledio expected to be the first player claimed in the 2004 National Bank's AFL Draft, expect Hawthorn to quickly snap up Tambling with the first of its three selections in the top seven. Tambling has been an elite performer at junior level, having been named the best player at both under-16 and under-18 level, which earned him the Alan McLean Medal and the Hunter Harrison Medal respectively. During his three matches at this year's National Bank's AFL under-18 championships, he notched up 61 disposals to cap off a stellar carnival. Tambling also captained The Allies during grand final week this year, when he led the side to victory in the inaugural National Bank's AFL under-18 Rising Stars Cup against Victoria. An AIS/AFL Academy member in 2002/03, Tambling shone at the recent National Bank's AFL Draft Camp, where he recorded a time of 2.87 seconds in the 20-metre sprint and a vertical leap of 93 centremetres, which were among the best tested this year. The dashing Northern Territorian goalkicker with the blistering pace and silky skills will be an excitement machine at Glenferrie.

Interestingly the order predicted for the phantom draf that year was:

Deledio, Tambling, Griffen, Roughhead, Franklin, Williams, Meesen, Wood, Russell, Bate

When it ended up:

Deledio, Roughhead, Griffen, Tambling, Franklin, Williams, Lewis, Meesen, Russell, Egan

[AndyP]

I said I couldn't recall the last midfielder than wasn't. You went back 6 years and found a small forward.

The End (sort of)
It was the end for me. It was an obvious player that I could recall off the top of my head. I didn't go and research all of the drafts like you have. I don't anaylse the game much and don't care to. He's a small forward then; I ****ed up. The end.

Now, try justifying quoting Robert Walls....

[macjackass]

My response was more directed at MacJack's 'he's crap' stance than yours. I think he suffered from being physically under-developed when he started, but because he was playing at Richmond he still got a game. That didn't do his reputation much good. Had he been at a more successful club that could have used him as a 'luxury' player, I think he would have had a much better time of it. Besides, he's matched the potential of a few top 5 draft picks - Luke Livingston, Xavier Clarke, Tim Walsh, Colin Sylvia, Farren Ray, Brock McLean are all top 5 picks. Other than Deledio and Griffen who were taken before him, Jordan Lewis is probably the only other midfielder from the 2004 draft that has clearly surpassed him career-wise. I'll still back him to finish his career as one of the better players from his draft year.



It was actually an end of round 1 concession pick for any one of the next five drafts and a late pick (50), which is reasonably substantial for a 24 year old. Brock McLean was swapped for pick 11 and Xavier Clarke went for pick 60 the year before. It's pretty rare for a player to be exchanged for anything better than a late first round or early second round pick.



I'll agree, he's somewhere between a gun and a dud. I just get annoyed when everybody rolls out the dud line.

"luxury player". If he was at a better club he wouldn't have gotten a game, end of story. As for Adelaide picking him up with that pick, what do you think Hawthorn would have gotten as a trade for Buddy? Don't say it isn't relevant, because it is. They had a chance to pick him and they didn't, epic fail!
I'll also take the bet about him playing 200 games, he's only half way there, 5% chance of him reaching that mark.
Moe, I notice you failed to mention the followoing Collingwood players in your top draft busts.
Bowman Nixon (top pick 2002) 0 games
Billy Morrison (top pick 2003) 0 games
Chris Egan (top 10 pick)
All clubs make, with the benefit of hindsight, bad picks. Collingwood is just as guilty as anybody else.

[LarryLong]

"luxury player". If he was at a better club he wouldn't have gotten a game, end of story.
I disagree. In a better club he would have played in the ones after a little bit of time spent developing, and nobody would have batted an eyelid at him spending a year or two bulking up in the twos. He also would have been introduced to the game as an outside winger of half forward and he would have played very well in a good team in that role. Imagine him playing for the bulldogs or another team that could have used his pace to better effect than Richmond, who weren't in the habit of getting the ball in the first place, let alone delivering it to the advantage of pacy players who can get into space.


As for Adelaide picking him up with that pick, what do you think Hawthorn would have gotten as a trade for Buddy? Don't say it isn't relevant, because it is.
It's irrelevant to the question of whether he's any good or not. I guess it really depends on whether you are trolling Richmond supporters or discussing Richard Tambling? :)


They had a chance to pick him and they didn't, epic fail!
I think I've already pointed out that picking Mitch Thorp (Famous for greeting future premiership captain Tom Harley with "Your career ends today" in a VFL game) before Joel Selwood is an epic fail. Tambling over Franklin was an just an unlucky decision in comparison, but it was justified at the time. Tell me which one of these statements is false:

- Tambling was rated higher than Franklin by many recruiters at the time, and most 'phantom drafts' had Tambling going higher.
- Franklin was widely regarded as a freakish talent with incredible potential who often went missing. He had a poor week at the under 18 championships that year and some recruiters were worried that he might not adjust to the AFL.
- Richmond was in no position to pick a risky option, having a terrible, terrible list at the time.
- Richmond had the worst midfield in the competition at the time, making it a pointless exercise to try and pick a key forward with their valuable high draft picks.
- Nobody said anything at all about Tambling being a bad choice until after Franklin delivered on his potential and then some.

[Moe Norman]

Moe, I notice you failed to mention the followoing Collingwood players in your top draft busts.
Bowman Nixon (top pick 2002) 0 games
Billy Morrison (top pick 2003) 0 games
Chris Egan (top 10 pick)
All clubs make, with the benefit of hindsight, bad picks. Collingwood is just as guilty as anybody else.

yes I did. I already mentioned the Danny Roach disaster, and posted about Chris Egan just a few posts up.

In 1999 we had picks 1 & 3. We traded Pick 3 for Steve McKee and Pick 7. So we could have got Fraser + Pavlich, but ended up with Fraser + Roach, and Roach was a dud of the highest order (although he did get injured)

[macjackass]

I disagree. In a better club he would have played in the ones after a little bit of time spent developing, and nobody would have batted an eyelid at him spending a year or two bulking up in the twos. He also would have been introduced to the game as an outside winger of half forward and he would have played very well in a good team in that role. Imagine him playing for the bulldogs or another team that could have used his pace to better effect than Richmond, who weren't in the habit of getting the ball in the first place, let alone delivering it to the advantage of pacy players who can get into space.


It's irrelevant to the question of whether he's any good or not. I guess it really depends on whether you are trolling Richmond supporters or discussing Richard Tambling? :)


I think I've already pointed out that picking Mitch Thorp (Famous for greeting future premiership captain Tom Harley with "Your career ends today" in a VFL game) before Joel Selwood is an epic fail. Tambling over Franklin was an just an unlucky decision in comparison, but it was justified at the time. Tell me which one of these statements is false:

- Tambling was rated higher than Franklin by many recruiters at the time, and most 'phantom drafts' had Tambling going higher.
- Franklin was widely regarded as a freakish talent with incredible potential who often went missing. He had a poor week at the under 18 championships that year and some recruiters were worried that he might not adjust to the AFL.
- Richmond was in no position to pick a risky option, having a terrible, terrible list at the time.
- Richmond had the worst midfield in the competition at the time, making it a pointless exercise to try and pick a key forward with their valuable high draft picks.
- Nobody said anything at all about Tambling being a bad choice until after Franklin delivered on his potential and then some.

How's jarrad oakley-nicholls travelling? I'd suggest top 10 midfielders are easier to pick than key position players. Like all clubs, we've made some poor picks. At the end of the day, we won a premiership in 2008 and made the finals last year.

[WBennett]

Its pretty easy to have a shot at Maxwell playing as a zoning off 3rd man defender. Just like Tom Harley, and just like Sam Gilbert, just like Heath Scotland etc All of them assist their CHB's, create turnovers through interceptions and 3rd man up, then make quality decisions in moving the ball off the half back line. I hate the term quarterback for AFL, but their role is similar - maintain possession and hit the man most likely to cause the opposition havoc further up the ground.

Harley was hidden away for the 09 grand final, got his medal and sensibly retired. Maxwell has another 5 years of career left.

And Tambling is a half decent player in a club that has been a rabble for a decade. Pretty harsh to blame him when the rest of the list is abolutely rubbish.

[macjackass]

Its pretty easy to have a shot at Maxwell playing as a zoning off 3rd man defender. Just like Tom Harley, and just like Sam Gilbert, just like Heath Scotland etc All of them assist their CHB's, create turnovers through interceptions and 3rd man up, then make quality decisions in moving the ball off the half back line. I hate the term quarterback for AFL, but their role is similar - maintain possession and hit the man most likely to cause the opposition havoc further up the ground.

Harley was hidden away for the 09 grand final, got his medal and sensibly retired. Maxwell has another 5 years of career left.

And Tambling is a half decent player in a club that has been a rabble for a decade. Pretty harsh to blame him when the rest of the list is abolutely rubbish.

He's half decent, not a pick 4's arsehole.

If Harley didn't play CHB, who did?

Quarterback is the most vital position in the nfl, hence why they get paid the most coin. Nick Maxwell ain't the most valuable player at Collingwood, never has been and never will be. Now, if you were going to say that about Luke Hodge, different story. (Please Moe, tell me all AFL coaches would rather have Maxwell than Hodge)

[LarryLong]

How's jarrad oakley-nicholls travelling?

Ah. so the answer is that you're trolling Richmond supporters. :)

JON is still rookie listed with West Coast, btw. Which is more than can be said for Beau Dowler, taken two spots ahead of him. Yes, I know he was injured, but we've descended to trolling so I'm going there. :)

I saw JON pull off the best foot-pass of the season once in a game a couple of years ago, from the wing to the opposite flank over a couple of fingertips and into the hands of a running team mate. Of course, he spent the rest of the game looking like he was deliberately trying to position himself so that he wouldn't have to get the ball. Serious confidence issues with that one, and I don't think he ever managed to get properly fit due to injuries. Seemed to have perfect size and athleticism and heaps of ability (although his kicking style looked iffy), but he just played with zero confidence, even in the VFL.

Another one for the hindsight file. :)

[WBennett]

Matthew Egan (remember him!) was all Australian CHB in 07. Harley was a BP/HBF zoning player.
By 09, he was unable to match up on anyone, so a floating back became this permanent role.

As Thommo said, Tambling played 100 games for Richmond. In a better team, he would be a thought of as a better player. Deledio might be a gun, but I don't rate him as he plays for Richmond. He might be brilliant at Geelong, but whilst he plays at the Tigers, he is ordinary.

[LarryLong]

It's harder to be a gun in a shit team Benno.

Exhibit A: Des Headland.

[Moe Norman]

Nope, but Hodge won a Norm Smith medal playing the exact same role that Maxwell plays, except he really did play as a loose extra man, Maxwell doesn't.

Harry Taylor was their CHB after Matthew Egan hurt his foot, and Lonergan also played there.

Calling Maxwell a 'loose man' is not accurate. Collingwood play with a firm structure of having 6 defenders. Maxwell always plays on a man if the opposition plays a standard 6 forwards. If they choose to play a loose man in their own defence, then Maxwell/O'Brien/Shaw orchestrate it so one of them is loose as they only have 5 opposition forwards to man up. When the opposition plays 6 forwards, Maxwell always picks one of them up, we don't throw a 7th man back there. He is just very good and reading the play and zoning off his opponent to help out his key defenders.

To get around this, opposition clubs need to play through his man - but they never do, or it never works. In the GF Replay, Fisher was having success again doing the same thing (he was awesome in the draw) so we played through Macaffer, who kicked 2 goals in the first 30 minutes because Fisher was trying to zone off him. Then they threw Goddard back there to do the same thing and we responded by moving Johnson to defence and playing Maxwell forward on Goddard and continually playing through Maxwell so Goddard had to be accountable. This is why Goddard had 19 disposals in the first half and only 7 in the second, as he had to play on someone.

The reason it works so well for both Collingwood and St Kilda, is because both teams have several very good half backs who can read the play, zone off and attack on the rebound. As soon as you man up one of them, they just release the other one. Put a defensive forward on Shaw/O'Brien, Maxwell will cut you up and vice-versa, same at the Saints with Goddard, Fisher and Gilbert.

The best thing about Collingwood was the emergence of Ben Reid, as a key defender who also provides good rebound. Previously with Presti/Brown you have 2 genuine stoppers who get about 5 touches a game. Throw in Ben Reid who can play on a key forward, but also picks up 15-20 touches and has a laser like left foot on the rebound, and the ball comes back out of the Collingwood defence very quickly and very precisely.

[macjackass]

Matthew Egan (remember him!) was all Australian CHB in 07. Harley was a BP/HBF zoning player.
By 09, he was unable to match up on anyone, so a floating back became this permanent role.

As Thommo said, Tambling played 100 games for Richmond. In a better team, he would be a thought of as a better player. Deledio might be a gun, but I don't rate him as he plays for Richmond. He might be brilliant at Geelong, but whilst he plays at the Tigers, he is ordinary.

Oh, that Egan, forgot all about him. Shocking injury to kill his career the way it did.
Still not sure why Tambling would be thought of as a better player at a better club. Is you're line of thinking "well, he's shit at a shit club, maybe he'll be better at a better club"?

[LarryLong]

If Harley didn't play CHB, who did?

Harry Taylor.

Agree with you on the quarterback stuff, but I will say that a very good one is tough for opposition coaches to stop. I can remember Paul Roos not playing on anybody but always getting the ball. As for Maxwell, he benefits from Malthouse using him in the role, but he plays the role very well.

[Moe Norman]

Maxwell doesn't play loose though, as I said we play a strong back 6 every week without fail. Sometimes the opposition plays 5 forwards, if they do, one of Maxwell/Harry/Shaw are loose, not always Maxwell. If they man up, Maxwell is just better at zoning off, and sometimes he just has a dumb opponent.

In the GF draw, Nathan Brown went and stood next to Nick Reiwolt, and so did Maxwell. So you would think Andrew McQualter would go as far away as possible, but no, he goes and stands next to Maxwell! Just stupid football really.

[WBennett]

My thinking is that he had 15 good games in 2009. Then he was injured and wore hard tags, and was no good again.

If he went to a better club where he didn't get the number 1 tag, he'd be a better player.

Out of 10, I'd rate Tambling a 5 or 6 for his career. Passable, but nothing great, and will forever live in the shadow of Buddy. I'd like to see him win a couple of games for the Crows and become a career 7 out of 10 player.

[LarryLong]

Maxwell doesn't play loose though, as I said we play a strong back 6 every week without fail. Sometimes the opposition plays 5 forwards, if they do, one of Maxwell/Harry/Shaw are loose, not always Maxwell. If they man up, Maxwell is just better at zoning off, and sometimes he just has a dumb opponent.

In the GF draw, Nathan Brown went and stood next to Nick Reiwolt, and so did Maxwell. So you would think Andrew McQualter would go as far away as possible, but no, he goes and stands next to Maxwell! Just stupid football really.

Not when you think about it. Riewoldt's game is all about long leads into space. If you stand somewhere else that's one place Riewoldt can't lead, and your man has a chance of cutting off his lead on the angle. Stand next to him and you can block his defenders to give him a few metres head start, and there's no way Maxwell can play 20m in front of him. Better still, if Riewoldt leads up, Maxwell has the choice of going with him or leaving somebody behind him in the forward 50. He'll probably still go because it is hard to get the ball over the top of the zone, but you might pinch the occasional goal that way.

I'm not sure if my memory here was just a convenient one, but was Maxwell playing on Gilbert when he snuck forward for 3 shots at goal in the 2nd final? (all misses, you useless *****!) That was about the only time I've seen the system you're talking about fall down, and I agree that it works really well to have three very good half backs who can all set up play.

I've got a mate who spent time on an AFL list who carves it up in his local footy nowadays off half back. I remember him telling me that he doesn't bother too much with his opponents half the time. In his words, "half forward flankers have no idea, they just run around in circles. There's no point manning them up". Probably explains why the Malthouse tactic of turning his half forward flankers into defensive players who occasionally pinch goals too is such a great tactic.

[Moe Norman]

Maxwell basically ran where he liked, and his St Kilda opponent followed him. Which basically meant he could fill his space, man him up, do whatever he liked and his man would go with with him. So if Maxwell blocked Reiwolt's space, Eddy or McQualter where there blocking it up too.

Maxwell was playing on Gilbert in both games when he went forward, although in the replay Maxwell swung forward to mess up Goddard's game and Toovey was moved onto Gilbert. Gilbert definitely got away from him mon the rebound by running high and getting the footy, while Maxwell stayed back near the arc. This is exactly how his opponent should play. Get into dangerous spots and he can't zone off you. Follow him around and he knows nobody will kick it to you.

[AndyP]

Even money in my books GCFC v HAWKS. Both teams would be even money to win 8 imo... And i'd prefer the bet on the GC
The bookies wouldn't agree with you. Beer bet?


Tapatalk has a smooth, rich flavour; and the new design wings have stopped leakage.

[Yossarian]

That underwood bitch gaaaaaaaaaaaaaawnnnnnnn.

Thank ****!

[mike]

Go Storm.

[Lagerlover]

dogs, THE END

[Hamo84]

That underwood bitch gaaaaaaaaaaaaaawnnnnnnn.

Thank ****!

Awesome, but how come?

[Moe Norman]

cause she is f#cking hopeless.

She has ruined it for other females too, because I'm sure there is one out there that does understand the game, doesn't have an annoying voice and does have the ability to commentate without having viewers change the channel in disgust - unfortunately producers will remember the disaster of Kelli Underwood and not give a girl a go in the future.

[Yossarian]

Hamo that was a joke right?

[Hamo84]

Hamo that was a joke right?

I totally agree she is useless and hated listening to her. I didnt realise that they actually got rid of her cos of that, well done ch 10.

I thought she might have actually done/said something that warranted her getting the sack.

[WBennett]

I would choose to do something outside and listen to the radio than watch a game which Kellie was calling.

Thankfully she is gone, never to return

[Moe Norman]

bad news for you benno, she'll be calling on ABC radio.

they will be losing listeners to 3AW, SEN and MMM in the thousands

[BrisWesty]

Ricky Nixon is an idiot!

[markTHEblake]

did he lose one of your players to GWS?

[BrisWesty]

Nah, he seems to enjoy hanging out with media hos and he's old enough to know better.

[Dave]

what the hell is with the NAB cup, it's an absolute joke

[AndyP]

It has been for many years.

[Yossarian]

what the hell is with the NAB cup, it's an absolute joke

So is soccer.

[Moe Norman]

It has been for many years.

it's a bigger joke this year

[Dave]

So is soccer.
kutgw with the wuming there bud

it's a bigger joke this year
exactly, it's just about a completely different sport

[markTHEblake]

what the hell is with the NAB cup, it's an absolute joke

whats the big deal about trying something different. They had to figure out how to get 18 teams through a lightning competition somehow.

[Yossarian]

kutgw with the wuming there bud

Wot.

[Bruce]

The out of bounds rule change should never have come in, but the triple header concept is a winner for me.

[markTHEblake]

The out of bounds rule change should never have come in
i think it was something that needed to be tried once

[AndyP]

That's more than once then, for yet another failure.

[WBennett]

OOB works in a lightning carnival - which R1 of the NAB Cup is.

Its not perfect, but it will do. Some umpire interpretations of taking the ball over the line were pretty ordinary though

[AndyP]

I wonder how much the Swans were paid by the AFL to lose to the Gold Coast, knowing they would still get through to the second round anyway.

[Ned]

GAWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/bad-boy-brendan-fevola-sacked-by-brisbane-lions-as-the-troubled-afl-stars-career-hits-a-new-low/story-e6frf3e3-1226009098957

[Hamo84]

not a suprise about Fevola i must say

[hocko]

Clown....the bloke is a clown.

BTW.....Go Bombers!

[Moe Norman]

Interesting that one.

Must have been some incidents we don't know about, as I doubt they have grounds to sack him over one incident (drunken behaviour NYE). The other allegation was proven to be completely unfounded, and everything else he did was prior to arriving at the Lions.

Mitch Clark was arrested for p#ssing on a ciggie machine at the Fox Hotel, so they'll need to prove consistency.

Having said all that, he had to go - just hope they have legal grounds to do it, as his $1.9m contract could cripple them further if they pay it out in full

[AndyP]

Fev will be a good player at Carlton next year.

[shavey]

Fev will be a good player at Carlton next year.

The second coming...

Sure Nixon could get him a gurnsey somewhere next year...

[markTHEblake]

The Collingwood juggernaught rolls on, and its always nice to beat Essendon.

[AndyP]

Essenscum on top of the ladder is not a good thing. Go Eagles by lots!!!

[Lagerlover]

Just watching replay of today's bombers/dogs game, Smorgan has told the team no GF, heads will roll. If this is an indication of what the season will bring..... ROLL ON !!!

[Minor_Threat]

Just watching replay of today's bombers/dogs game, Smorgan has told the team no GF, heads will roll. If this is an indication of what the season will bring..... ROLL ON !!!Another Doggies man.. Not many of us!

They were woeful, but missing 3 key defenders it was always going to be tough, just didn't think it would be that tough.

Bring on next week!

[timah!]

Awesome, Jonothan Brown out for 8 weeks...

Looks like it'll be another looooong year...

If only we still had another forward capable of kicking goals...:roll:

[AndyP]

It gives Vossy an out for his shitty coaching now.

Is it too late to get Fev back?


Tapatalk: Bug report? What bug report?

[timah!]

It gives Vossy an out for his shitty coaching now.

Is it too late to get Fev back?


Tapatalk: Bug report? What bug report?

I'd suggest it is...

Looks like young Aaron Cornelius will get a few weeks in the big time.

[Lagerlover]

Too late for Fev, but I'm sure Bradshaws willing to come back..... WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER!!!!!

[timah!]

Too late for Fev, but I'm sure Bradshaws willing to come back..... WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER!!!!!

Bradshaw wouldn't be worth it. You'd be lucky to get 10 games out of him all season.

[Lagerlover]

Another Doggies man.. Not many of us!

They were woeful, but missing 3 key defenders it was always going to be tough, just didn't think it would be that tough.

Bring on next week!

See if THE SHERMANATOR gets a gig

[AndyP]

I hate Sherman.

[Lagerlover]

Bradshaw wouldn't be worth it. You'd be lucky to get 10 games out of him all season.

Totally agree

[timah!]

I hate Sherman.

+1. Glad he's gone. Same with Brennan.

[BrisWesty]

Funny interview of Brad Green after the draw.

I was waiting for him to come out with some gem about getting out of cricket or not playing soccer so he didn't have to worry about draws.

[Lagerlover]

I hate Sherman.

"Round 1, Essendon versus Western Bulldogs, with 1 kick and 3 handballs... J.Sherman, Western Bulldogs, three votes"

[Yossarian]

Eagles. Undefeated.

[Yossarian]

But WTF happened to LeCras :(

[PeteyD]

How bad is that injury to Brown? Blood everywhere.

[AndyP]

It's always interesting to see what club requests the AFL accept when rigging the fixture for the year. Adelaide asked to play the Hawks at home in Rd 1 to celebrate the same game 20 years ago, when they first entered the competition. But where does it stop? Do they get it for the 25th anniversary? 30th? 44th?

If the season pans out the same as 1991, they can play us in the first round whenever they want.

[Lagerlover]

Andy does that mean you'd be willing to roll out tuck.
Still laugh about his presentation of his own medal a couple of years ago..."and the winner of the norm smith medal goes to"

[timah!]

How bad is that injury to Brown? Blood everywhere.

Not as bad as Stakers...

The Lions shall now be referred to as "The Cubs" for the remainder of the 2011 season.

[AndyP]

If it wasn't Collingwood on the receiving end of the "quirk", this wouldn't be an article.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/maths-quirk-puts-bombers-on-top-of-ladder/story-e6frf9jf-1226031337635

I guess percentages haven't been covered by the time Pies fans leave school.

[timah!]

2 rounds, 2 draws!!!
Seems like it was a top effort by the Tigers, but how does St Kilda expect to win kicking 17 behinds!

Looks like the concussion/sub rule got another work out...

[Johnny Canuck]

My Tigers looked impressive last night for a young squad. Hopefully something can come of this in the future.

[LarryLong]

My Tigers looked impressive last night for a young squad. Hopefully something can come of this in the future.

Yep, almost beginning to hope that we won't be shit again this year.

[AndyP]

Gold Coast fans have gone from hoping for a win to hoping for a goal. Even their big name players are having very little influence.

[timah!]

It was always going to be a tough year for the suns. I think they'll be happy with 3 wins for the year.

[Pieface]

Round 1 loss - check
Draw against richmond - check
Lenny Hayes out for the year with a knee - check

I might not be out a carton this season after all!

Glad to see my Wet Toast boys win today. Didn't help my tipping but I don't think it's likely to cost me :lol:

Gold Coast...welcome to the AFL

[TheTrueReview]

Gold Coast fans have gone from hoping for a win to hoping for a goal. Even their big name players are having very little influence.

I didn't see the game. Any commentary about how Karmichael Hunt went?

[AndyP]

I'm not sure how quiet he kept his opponents, but he didn't get much of it, and I saw him fumble it a few times.

[Jarro]

I didn't see the game. Any commentary about how Karmichael Hunt went?

Coming home from golf today i heard on the radio that he had a shocker, along with most of his team-mates.

He'll take a while to get the hang of AFL at that level they were saying.

[Yossarian]

As Jarro said, the whole team was very average. They all need awhile to get the hang of AFL.

[WBennett]

As Jarro said, the whole team was very average. They all need awhile to get the hang of AFL.

In NRL terms, Karmichael was probably more competant than the entire Canberra Raiders team right now...

[AndyP]

He'll take a while to get the hang of AFL at that level they were saying.
There is only one level of the AFL.

[Ned]

A bit of soccer......................


http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/carlton-fan-injured-after-fight-at-mcg/story-e6frfku0-1226036546065

[AndyP]

How shit are the Saints? Unless you are a St Kilda fan, you've gotta love seeing them struggling.

[Minor_Threat]

How shit are the Saints? Unless you are a St Kilda fan, you've gotta love seeing them struggling.Agreed..

[chappy1970]

I'm a Saints fan and they are woeful.

I'm interested as to why supporters of other teams (You AndyP) are happy that we are performing badly. It must be your envy of our incredibly successful past. :)

[kingslayer33]

How shit are the Saints? Unless you are a St Kilda fan, you've gotta love seeing them struggling.

Harsh Andy, as Chappy said ... Unless you are referring to their current gameplan in which case the more they struggle hopefully the sooner they will open up the game.

[markTHEblake]

How shit are the Saints? Unless you are a St Kilda fan, you've gotta love seeing them struggling.

Essendon.Collingwood.Carlton i can understand why someone would love to see them struggling,but St Kilda?

[Minor_Threat]

I'm a Saints fan and they are woeful.

I'm interested as to why supporters of other teams (You AndyP) are happy that we are performing badly. It must be your envy of our incredibly successful past. :)Because Riewoldt took a dive in the 2009 prelim. I find great pleasure in seeing them be shit and constantly in the press. Karma.

[chappy1970]

Fair enough MT, can understand that.

[AndyP]

I used to like them when I was younger, but it was probably a sympathy like as they were constant underdogs. The culture of coach sacking (especially Stan Alves) doesn't deserve sympathy though, and I think Grant Thomas turned me against them some more. If it wasn't for the current game style (and blaming shit games on the other club), I still wouldn't care that much. Plus, there's Milne.

That said, I have no problem with 16 of the 17 clubs struggling.

[markTHEblake]

All the more reason not to care. They do enough internal hating themselves.

I'll just pass them a hanky, and stick to hating the usual suspects, plus Port Adelaide.

[LarryLong]

Watched the second quarter last night and promptly fell asleep on the couch. I don't think Brisbane are completely blameless.

Honestly, was anybody playing on anybody through the middle of the ground?

Personally, I'd like to see St. Kilda get back to top form, if only because somebody needs to knock the pies off this year. :)

[Moe Norman]

I hate them because of John Greening - http://www.victoriapark.net.au/john_greening_54.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NffmUbpXL-E


"It was 1972 and Greening was probably the emerging poster boy of the VFL. He had Bob Rose’s number (No.22), was playing for Collingwood, and was on fire in 1972 with Brownlow voting," said Mike Sheahan.

"He was a mix of Hird and Buckley. He was probably more stylish than Hird, but more like Buckley in the way he played.

"The blokes who played with him thought they were probably playing with the guy who was going to be the best player for the next 10 years.

"Even though it wasn’t a violent era, it was an era where we turned a blind eye to a lot of on-the-field stuff. Seeing someone as young as Greening and as good, and cut down as he edged towards his prime just shook the community.

"He was in danger of actually dying – a. on the footy ground and b, by extension when he was unconscious after 24 hours. There were fears he was going to die. It shook footy a bit.
I also hate them because they play boring shit football that turns people away from the game.

[AndyP]

Bwahahaahahah! Nice one, Port! Well done, Suns.

[kingslayer33]

Bwahahaahahah! Nice one, Port! Well done, Suns.

+1. Port must have blown their load last week in the showdown. Embarrassing stuff though.

[AndyP]

Expect a bumper crowd for the next Port home game.....

[Yossarian]

I ****ing hate port adelaide, way to go Gold Coast!

[AndyP]

I'm pissed off at them for getting up against the Crows when I put money on them being a shit side and losing by lots. They proved me right a week too late.

Maybe Port should merge with GWS. Can Broken Hill support a team?

[Minor_Threat]

That is very embarrasing for Port!

[Yossarian]

They are they worst team in the AFL.

[live4golf]

...about time the Witches Hats fought back.

It took me about 10 minutes to realise it was actually an AFL premiership game, I thought they were showing the under 12's during the first quarter....WORST.FOOTBALL.EVER.

Congrats to GC. I hope Motlop won some money from it.

[LarryLong]

I remember talking to a guy at work after round one who was saying that the Suns were an embarrassment to the AFL. I told him to stop being so melodramatic, and siad that I thought that the Suns would win a game or two this year. He scoffed.

As a Richmond supporter, I know from experience that even terrible footy sides jag a win here and there. You'd have to be completely woeful to get through a whole season without winning one. It's just so much better that it came against Port Adelaide. :)

[AndyP]

You were prepared to be lower on the ladder than the Suns rather than be the first team to lose to them?


Expect a bumper crowd for the next Port home game.....
Look at the draw next time, dickwad.
Kiss. Of. Death.

[LarryLong]

I'm mentally prepared for being lower on the ladder than anybody. Comes with the territory.

At least until we smash limp past North tomorrow arvo, that is. :)

[AndyP]

I've tipped the Tigers for what it's worth.

[AndyP]

BTW how many people do you think were just knocked out of Last Man Standing comps with the Suns' win? I was.

[LarryLong]

I've tipped the Tigers for what it's worth.

Me too, but North have a way of getting over Richmond every time we think we have them covered.

More importantly, did you tip the hawks this week?

[AndyP]

Yes, but when it's a line call, I'm always going to lean towards the Hawks, and nearly every game against the Cats is a line call.

[Onewood]

Solarman should jump on the advertising band wagon here
Solar power from the SUN wins against any other POWER

[shavey]

Two down already this week after only three wrong through the first four rounds.

Must say, I didn't mind getting the Suns game wrong as it was good to see them get on the board.

The same however can't be said for the Roos who look to have a long year ahead

[BrisWesty]

AndyP, game of the round this afternoon (and it's not you v me in matchplay either). Go the cats!

[AndyP]

Thanks for the heads up. ;)
It's a contest that I always look forward to, and they keep delivering good matches.

Go Hawks!

[Bruce]

It's another cracking Hawks v Cats game.

[AndyP]

Well done, Cats. Too good again.

I have to question our subbing a ruckman. All I saw was Geelong clearances after that.

[Yossarian]

Ummm, go suns?