Honest question for the AFL fans out there

[Sydney Hacker]

What do you really think the effect of Hunt & Falou swapping codes will be ?

Before I get into it, I will preface my questions with the fact I like to watch AFL live, not a great game to watch on TV IMO, but that is probably because of my limited knowledge of the game (growing up in country Qld will do that too you), but I do enjoy watching the game live and can appreciate the skills needed for the game.

But I have to wonder what the common fans think about such big dollars being spent on a couple of guys who have as much exposure to the game as I do.

Surely the other players in the team could not be overly impressed also ? They play a game all their lives and get to an elite level, only to see a newcomer earn a lot more then the majority of people playing the game.

Will the AFL just use the players up for the media exposure and dump them after their initial contract period ? Surely unless they freakishly succeed at the swap they will be on a lot less money once their salaries count towards the cap ?

Would be interested to hear the opinions of the AFL followers out there...

[AndyP]

It's for publicity and worth every dollar, from that point of view.

I've got no idea how well they will play, but they won't be elite players, and will most likely follow the next big pay cheque (probably from union) when their contract ends, as a result.

[PeteyD]

Definately for the publicity, and they have generated huge amounts of that.

[gazgolf1]

I think AFL fans just want to see them f*#k up, I know I do.

[Sydney Hacker]

It's for publicity and worth every dollar, from that point of view.

I've got no idea how well they will play, but they won't be elite players, and will most likely follow the next big pay cheque (probably from union) when their contract ends, as a result.

As a publicity tool (I will avoid using the word stunt :)) it is fantastic and probably already paid for itself many times over.

The players themselves I suppose are the only ones who can lose in this. I get the feeling the AFL don't really care about the players credibility and why should they. But is there a chance the AFL could be forced to increase other players salaries to placate them ?

[PeteyD]

Does anyone know what the established players earn? What is the GC throwing at GA?

[Yossarian]

A lot.

[Yossarian]

As to the this code swapping, I will be interested to see how they go and what they personally think of AFL. I think it is a bit silly to throw as much cash as they have at them but maybe it is a sign not a lot of established AFl players are keen on joining.

[AndyP]

Does anyone know what the established players earn? What is the GC throwing at GA?
Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/gary-ablett-puts-contract-talks-on-hold/story-e6frf9jf-1225873790706): "The Geelong superstar has reportedly been offered $1.5 million a year to join the Gold Coast."

[PeteyD]

So that is a fair bit more than they gave Hunt. I think it will be interesting to see how they go with the changeover. The hardest thing I found with playing Aussie Rules was the evasion skills being significantly different. There is a lot more running back etc. and the area is a lot more open. That sort of thing should suit both of the converts. Not sure how much that would apply these days though, with the flooding and keep ball stuff.

[AndyP]

There's being able to run into that open space, and being smart enough to know when to do it. Footy smarts is something they won't have and will be very hard to get in a short period of time.

The money thrown at GAJ wouldn't be thrown at many others. Maybe players like Franklin and J Brown, but they are contracted. The publicity involved if they got him would be massive too.

[Sydney Hacker]

Given the Sydney market, which is extremely fickle, would they be better off trying to buy success rather then media exposure ?

In my time in Sydney I have quickly noticed that if a team as so much as has a sniff of losing the crowds abandon them. Look at the Waratahs, even when they are winning they can't draw a decent crowd for a one team town. If the GWS does not hit the ground running the AFL will need to hand out cash like it is going out of fashion !

[AndyP]

How will they buy success? Established players are being signed up by their clubs, and probably don't want to go there anyway.

[Moe Norman]

Their salaries are clearly defined, with a playing contract and a promotional contract according to the clubs. The playing portion is equivalent to what top players are making, but not more. The promotional portion is the same amount again.

Apparently, once the first contract is up - they won't be eligible for the promotional portion for a contract extension as it would be a salary cap breach as they would now be established AFL listed players. So it would be interesting to see if list managers and/or coaches would then be prepared to match their existing playing contracts if they are not 'top players'.

Seems to me, unless they both develop into elite players (unlikely), that they will play out their first contract and then go back to the other codes because their AFL value would be greatly diminished. Even if they become quality AFL players, they would still struggle to make $400k - both would get far more in Union. Buddy Franklin as an example, probably only makes $400k, so they would need to be his standard in 3 years time!

[Dotty]

A second team for Sydney?

If they want to save money, they call them the Razorbacks or the Kings, as there are already warehouses full of unsold merchandise.

[PeteyD]

Thanks Moe, that is what I wanted to know. If you are going to whore for the top $$ you should expect to be treated like a whore then.

[TheTrueReview]

What sounds like a great marketing idea can rapidly become a joke and a millstone around the AFL's neck. I draw the analogy to when Garrick Morgan (then Wallaby forward) came across to rugby league in the 1990s to play for the South Queensland Crushers. In union, Morgan was a star wallaby forward but at league he was a joke who then became an embarrassment. I see Folau & Hunt becoming the same.

[Bruce]

Izzy coming in at the same $$$ as what is being offered to GAJ to entice him away is a real slap in the face to the rest of the quality AFL players.
There is zero chance they will make it to the elite level of player in the competition by the time their first contract runs out. Less than zero chance. I resent the AFL spending dollars on 'brand enhancement' as this will be taken away from the grassroots of the game - and the middle to bottom of each team's list - the guys that drive the game.
I hate it.

[Moe Norman]

I don't think its quite that black and white Bruce. The AFL does an exceptional job at growing the game and have learnt from their previous mistakes in Brisbane & Sydney. This money is likely to generate even more money to put into those grassroots.

Most rugby league fans wouldn't have had any interest in these 2 teams at all, now all of them will be tuning in to see how these 2 blokes go. Their kids might be watching TV that day too, and it snowballs from there....

[PeteyD]

AFL has the best program for junior sport up here. Auskick is high profile and all the kids know it. Pretty sure the payback from the signings is huge. I would like to know why you think they have no chance of being any good at AFL. At the end of 4 years, Folau will be 25, coming into his peak as a sportman. I think they may surprise you.

[markTHEblake]

I dont think the switch in codes will be as hard for the players as people think. In many cases gifted sportsmen can do very well at whatever sport they put their hand to. It is only in the modern era where players get paid so much that they dont actually switch sports as often as say Babe Zaharias.

We have seen examples of Irishmen having success in the AFL, and there is a bigger difference between the two games than most think . Scott Pendlebury from Collingwood was representing his state (or country) in Basketball only a year or two before being drafted by Collingwood. Another team is actively developing some 7 foot tall african fellow straight out of the jungle somewhere. Another is looking at grabbing gridiron players.

In the NT, many of the aboriginal footballers played both Aussie rules and Rugby League as they were opposite seasons, and i think one Ninny Briston was Captain of both NT rep teams, a rather unique achievement. I remember one of the Stokes brothers (of which there are just about as many as the Longs) was being approached by both Rugby and Aussie rules clubs - i think he went with League.

[Jarro]

I don't think its quite that black and white Bruce. The AFL does an exceptional job at growing the game and have learnt from their previous mistakes in Brisbane & Sydney. This money is likely to generate even more money to put into those grassroots.

Most rugby league fans wouldn't have had any interest in these 2 teams at all, now all of them will be tuning in to see how these 2 blokes go. Their kids might be watching TV that day too, and it snowballs from there....

I wouldn't hold your breath for this to happen Moe.

Most NRL fans couldn't really give a rats what happens in AFL, regardless of how many top tier league players sign up.

[Yossarian]

Sure jarro.

[sms316]

I wouldn't hold your breath for this to happen Moe.

Most NRL fans couldn't really give a rats what happens in AFL, regardless of how many top tier league players sign up.

+1.

Quite a few will watch one or two games and then realise the game is boring as **** and return to ignoring it.

[Yossarian]

And quite a few will continue to watch. Which is a win for the AFL and another loss for the NRL.

[markTHEblake]

Most NRL fans couldn't really give a rats what happens in AFL, regardless of how many top tier league players sign up.

I think you underestimate the capability of the AFL to attract some interest from Rugby fans when media hype has been elevated. I was living in NSW for a few years, and before super league, all the blokes i worked with coudnt stand AFL and couldnt understand why i had zilch interest in Rugby league. Then Super League happened, and then all of a sudden, a huge change. the monday morning chats were all about "how awesome were the swans..."

[Bushka]

This is a massive blunder by the AFL guys, i'm a union guy first but i played both league & Union and love watching both.

The ARU blew so much cash on Lote Tuqueri, Wendell Sailor and Matt Rogers and it did bugger all apart from sell newspapers for a bit. It's exactly the same deal here only I don't see these guys being able to actually play the game well...

You get some publicity now, but if they suck in their first game your going to get no gate back from there on in...I just don't see this as a long term win.

[Jarro]

And quite a few will continue to watch. Which is a win for the AFL and another loss for the NRL.

... and quite a few little kids will watch and ask where Folau came from originally.

Oh yeah, the NRL ... let's check that out.

I highly doubt Hunt and Folau are gonna be the saviours of the two new AFL franchises

[Jarro]

I think you underestimate the capability of the AFL to attract some interest from Rugby fans when media hype has been elevated. I was living in NSW for a few years, and before super league, all the blokes i worked with coudnt stand AFL and couldnt understand why i had zilch interest in Rugby league. Then Super League happened, and then all of a sudden, a huge change. the monday morning chats were all about "how awesome were the swans..."

That must have been back when they were a winning side.

NSW fans are fickle and only support winners.

The Western Sydney AFL side better jump out of the blocks at 100mph then hadn't they.

[Yossarian]

You are right jarro, the NRL isn't going to lose any fans out of this at all.

[PeteyD]

This is a massive blunder by the AFL guys, i'm a union guy first but i played both league & Union and love watching both.

The ARU blew so much cash on Lote Tuqueri, Wendell Sailor and Matt Rogers and it did bugger all apart from sell newspapers for a bit. It's exactly the same deal here only I don't see these guys being able to actually play the game well...

You get some publicity now, but if they suck in their first game your going to get no gate back from there on in...I just don't see this as a long term win.

Wendell did wonders for promoting rugby up here. Far more than bugger all.

[Minor_Threat]

... and quite a few little kids will watch and ask where Folau came from originally.

Oh yeah, the NRL ... let's check that out.

I highly doubt Hunt and Folau are gonna be the saviours of the two new AFL franchisesThey are not after saviours but more so publicity as has been said lots already. With the concessions these two sides get for the first 5 - 10 years of there life, they will be fine.

[markTHEblake]

You are right jarro, the NRL isn't going to lose any fans out of this at all.

Iwouldnt think that it ever was the point to make the NRL lose fans

[3oneday]

Billy Slater would have been a better signing.

Sydney papers and media outlets are almost treating this as as big as the Melbourne Storm debacle, on and on and on.

I'm over it, I wish him well in AFL :)

[Bushka]

Wendell did wonders for promoting rugby up here. Far more than bugger all.
Wendell didn't really have the same effect when suiting up for NSW to be honest.

At least both lote and del could play rugby with some degree of skill. This is going to look ridiculous to the heartland believers of the AFL, especially when they start getting flogged.

[Minor_Threat]

Wendell didn't really have the same effect when suiting up for NSW to be honest.

At least both lote and del could play rugby with some degree of skill. This is going to look ridiculous to the heartland believers of the AFL, especially when they start getting flogged.Somehow I don't think the AFL care about whether they can play or not. It is a case of "Use and Abuse" from both sides. Hunt and Folau get big $$$, but for this cash they will be embarrased on the field, in return for the paying them this money the AFL gets huge publicity and media attention.

In 4 years time, both will be off to play League or Union somewhere else again.

[Bruce]

To clarify. There is a reasonable chance they will be 'good' players. There is no chance they will become the elite of the compeition. They will not be in the top 5 players in the comp whom they will be on a salary parity with.

Sydney crowds are dying off again now they are middle of the pack after a good patch when they won their flag. How many failed Gold Coast franchises have been setup in all the major sporting codes. League, Basketball, the first version of the Bears and a very good A-League side that had rumours of folding not so long ago. What makes this force feeding into a notoriously fickle market different from the previous attempts other than throwing an even bigger pile of money at it?

[PeteyD]

The explanation is that their 'Salary' is average, the balance comes from other stuff. Sounds like trying to placate established players. Although the amount paid to the elite players, when considering the advertising etc, is probably significantly more than that.

[WBennett]

Folou is young, marketable, and Polynesian.

Other than Aaron Edwards of the Kangaroos, I don't think there is another Polynesian player in the AFL.

If he can get 20% of islander born kiddies to take us Auskick, its a win to the AFL. Have a look at the NRL - most teams have a number of polynesian players and they are improving all the time. AFL is tapping into a new market there...

I think Harmichael will be a decent AFL player - I can see him running off a back flank and going on ball as a hard tackling tagger.

Izzy looks like a key position player - fullback or full forward, or potentially even a NicNat style ruckman.

Yep, its a shitload of money for some unproven players, but when the AFL can offer 1 unproven player more money over three or four years more than the NRL can offer entire 25 man squads over a single year, its just giving a giant bird to the NRL.

$1bill TV rights against $300mill. Channel Nein leads the bleating over losing players, maybe they should pay more for their product to retain players.

[WBennett]

Somebody mentioned African players - Majak Daw was drafted by North Melbourne. He is a giant Sudanese born kid who was identified as a talent in Under 18's.

My amateur club was lucky enough to have a Sudanese kid join us last year who came out as a war refugee. He smashed all our time trial records and was a phenomenal athlete. It took 18 months but we have been able to turn him into a decent ruckman who won every tap and was finally able to kick the ball more than 15 metres.

African born players may just be the next big thing - these guys are tall, fast, have sensational endurance, and just need to learn the skills of the game. Give it 10 years I reckon and almost every team will have a Sudanese/Etheopian refugee/immigrant player.

[PerryGroves]

Somehow I don't think the AFL care about whether they can play or not. It is a case of "Use and Abuse" from both sides. Hunt and Folau get big $$$, but for this cash they will be embarrased on the field, in return for the paying them this money the AFL gets huge publicity and media attention.

In 4 years time, both will be off to play League or Union somewhere else again.

MT, think the AFL will be disappointed if they are embarrassed about their playing potential. I work with mainly AFL guys who basically think both are the wrong body shape, will have to drop kgs etc. The obvious is that this is a publicity stunt (albeit expensive) but what it certainly is in Western Sydney is the continuation of the AFL's push to increase junior participation. There is ample anecdotal evidence that the way the AFL goes about things at a junior level and the amount of money they have to spend far exceeds what is offered by the other codes.

[PeteyD]

Sheedy reckons he can make a player of him in 12 months.

[Sydney Hacker]

Folou is young, marketable, and Polynesian.

Other than Aaron Edwards of the Kangaroos, I don't think there is another Polynesian player in the AFL.

If he can get 20% of islander born kiddies to take us Auskick, its a win to the AFL. Have a look at the NRL - most teams have a number of polynesian players and they are improving all the time. AFL is tapping into a new market there...

I think Harmichael will be a decent AFL player - I can see him running off a back flank and going on ball as a hard tackling tagger.

Izzy looks like a key position player - fullback or full forward, or potentially even a NicNat style ruckman.

Yep, its a shitload of money for some unproven players, but when the AFL can offer 1 unproven player more money over three or four years more than the NRL can offer entire 25 man squads over a single year, its just giving a giant bird to the NRL.

$1bill TV rights against $300mill. Channel Nein leads the bleating over losing players, maybe they should pay more for their product to retain players.

The next TV rights deal is obviously a very important time for NRL. I may be wrong but does league (nationally) not outrate the AFL by a significant margin ? Like I said I may be wrong because my exposure here is to the Sydney & Qld market as well as the media in those states.

I can understand that the AFL can sell a "national" product to the stations but from what I have heard from marketers and advertising bigwigs, they only really care about the eastern states. If the NRL outrates the AFL in 2 of those 3 key markets then surely the NRL can push for an upgraded deal ?

The game was almost broke when the last deal was done, so there was an element of taking whatever they can get at the time. With Leckie in charge of channel 7 these days I think there will be an increase in the jostling to secure the TV rights for the next deal. The smartest thing the NRL can do is auction off the rights to Origin by themselves, those 3 games still pretty much rank in the top 10 most watched shows each year.

[dan]

Why is the the salary cap in NRL so piss poor?

[Moe Norman]

because the game is piss poor.

Lets not forget the following.

Daniel Merret was recruited as an 18 year old Rugby League player by Brisbane in 2002. He debuted in 2005 and is now Vice-Captain and one of the best defenders going around.

Jim Stynes was recruited from Ireland, with no understanding of the game at all - he won a Brownlow medal.

Sam Gilbert was recruited from a Rugby Union background, and was close to AA selection last year.

Marty Clarke was recruited from Ireland, and debuted within 6 months with 23 disposals and was almost BOG in a preliminary final in his first season.

Tadgh Kennelly was recruited from Ireland, won a premiership, left to go back to Ireland, and has now come back again and slotted straight back into the elite level.

Kurt Tippett was recruited from a basketball team, had played a grand total of 7 junior AFL games and kicked 50 goals last year and was widely regarded as the best young key position player in the game.

Scott Pendlebury, played one season of TAC Cup before being drafted by Collingwood after playing basketball for Australia.

Tom Williams of the Western Bulldogs played half a season of QAFL Reserves before being taken at Pick #7 after playing QLD Schoolboys Rugby Uniion.

Mike Pyke played in a World Cup for Canada and after being recruited 18 months ago has already played 10+ games.

Dean Brogan won an NBL Title with the Adelaide 36'ers before being recruited to Port Adelaide, now a Premiership Player in the AFL

The list goes on and one, and there are probably another dozen players on AFL lists now from either Ireland, the USA or another sporting background.

Lets just accept that good athletes are good athletes, and if given the opportunity - are likely to succeed at almost any sport they turn their hand to.

Setanta O'Hailpin was recruited from Ireland, from a sport that doesn't involve tackling, catching or kicking a ball at all, and is now Carlton's leading goalkicker.

[3oneday]

Yep, most of those are household names now too :lol:

[Moe Norman]

They are where it matters.

Izzy and Hunt are household names too....

[PeteyD]

In Helbourne most of them would be.

Is the TV rights for the AFL really 3.3 times the NRL? No wonder the NRL is spastic with it's dumbass salary crap.

[Moe Norman]

The sponsorship of the AFL competition generated 13 times the revenue of the NRL.

The AFL clubs all generally have 25,000+ members, many of them have 45,000+ also generating significant revenue.

There are probably 20 games a year that generated 60,000 fans at the ground, also generating significant revenue

The sponsorship deals each individual club have also dwarf those of the NRL clubs

The TV rights deal is almost 4 times that of the NRL, and features on 2 FTA channels and Foxtel.

Essentially, it is a better product, run in a much better fashion and the revenue indicated as such.

I think someone told me last year that is costs more to get your logo on about 5 AFL Club jumpers, than it does to get the naming rights to State or Origin...!

[Sydney Hacker]

So should the NRL poach the head of the AFL to run the comp ? That would be an interesting move !

[Moe Norman]

they couldn't afford him!

[Moe Norman]

double post

[PeteyD]

So the NRL has severely undersold itself. This is because it is run by morons that only think of Rugby League as being a Sydney product.

[WBennett]

Ratings - last year AFL Grand Final at 2:30 PM - 2.787 million (http://oztam.com.au/documents/2009/E_20090920.pdf)

Last year NRL Grand Final - at Sunday night 8pm Prime Time 2.6 (http://oztam.com.au/documents/2009/E_20091004.pdf)

AFL generally out rates NRL nationally.

However, its a horses for courses market. AFL is a winner in Vic, SA, Tas and WA.
NRL wins in Queensland and NSW.

AFL in Sydney gets 50,000 viewers only on a Saturday afternoon or night. Its ratings poison.
NRL is Melbourne is worse - Nine shows it around midnight to 11 insomniacs and three desperados.

[Moe Norman]

So the NRL has severely undersold itself. This is because it is run by morons that only think of Rugby League as being a Sydney product.

sort of, but things tend to find their own value in the market.

Lets be honest, it aint a great product.

[AndyP]

Sheedy reckons he can make a player of him in 12 months.Sheedy is full of crackpot theories.

[PeteyD]

Yes Mr one eye!

I like that Roy and HG call em the Western Sydney Laughing Clowns.

[Moe Norman]

I have a theory for you.

The recruitment of Izzy and Hunt is being funded by the NSWRL, they are also hoping Inglis converts, are prepared to fund the recruitment of Cameron Smith and Jonathon Thurstons to the Melbourne rebels as well.

They figure after all these blokes go to AFL and Union, they might just have a slim chance of winning an Origin Series !

[PeteyD]

Yea, and that is why there are calls for Izzy to not be selected in SOO as well. Some crap about being loyal (like NSW are loyal to their sides ... ).

[Bushka]

Moe heaps of those Irish guys have a background in Gaellic Football which is the closest sport on earth to what runs as the AFL over here. It's not exactly the steepest of learning curves. I'd also have to say that Folaus kicking game is underwhelming...very underwhelming.

How many of the guys you mentioned were signed over to one of the top pay packages for the entire code without ever having kicked a ball in anger?

On the Cap status.

League has such a low salary cap because not all clubs are created equal, and having it set to the lowest common denominator makes the competition fairer while involving as much of the marketplace as possible.

If you have an edge in Salary you tend to get the same teams dominating the competition constantly, I think the Melbourne Storm is a prime example of this. If they raised it sure someone like the storm might have no issues paying, however it would literally create a bunch of second tier teams, or send others to the wall chasing parity. The NRL cannot afford to kill its fanbase, I know I stopped supporting league with any passion once they gave the North Sydney Bears the arse....If Manly went as well i wouldn't bother turning the t.v on for it.

[AndyP]

League has such a low salary cap because not all clubs are created equal, and having it set to the lowest common denominator makes the competition fairer while involving as much of the marketplace as possible. .How is that different to the AFL?

[Bushka]

The point was with respect to how low the NRL cap (about 4.1) is compared to the AFL (about 7.3?) although i'm not sure how that relates per head etc...

Really i don't know enough about the division of the cashhhhhhhhhhhhhhh to get into it.

[sms316]

because the game is piss poor.

Lets not forget the following.

Daniel Merret was recruited as an 18 year old Rugby League player by Brisbane in 2002. He debuted in 2005 and is now Vice-Captain and one of the best defenders going around.

Jim Stynes was recruited from Ireland, with no understanding of the game at all - he won a Brownlow medal.

Sam Gilbert was recruited from a Rugby Union background, and was close to AA selection last year.

Marty Clarke was recruited from Ireland, and debuted within 6 months with 23 disposals and was almost BOG in a preliminary final in his first season.

Tadgh Kennelly was recruited from Ireland, won a premiership, left to go back to Ireland, and has now come back again and slotted straight back into the elite level.

Kurt Tippett was recruited from a basketball team, had played a grand total of 7 junior AFL games and kicked 50 goals last year and was widely regarded as the best young key position player in the game.

Scott Pendlebury, played one season of TAC Cup before being drafted by Collingwood after playing basketball for Australia.

Tom Williams of the Western Bulldogs played half a season of QAFL Reserves before being taken at Pick #7 after playing QLD Schoolboys Rugby Uniion.

Mike Pyke played in a World Cup for Canada and after being recruited 18 months ago has already played 10+ games.

Dean Brogan won an NBL Title with the Adelaide 36'ers before being recruited to Port Adelaide, now a Premiership Player in the AFL

The list goes on and one, and there are probably another dozen players on AFL lists now from either Ireland, the USA or another sporting background.

Lets just accept that good athletes are good athletes, and if given the opportunity - are likely to succeed at almost any sport they turn their hand to.

Setanta O'Hailpin was recruited from Ireland, from a sport that doesn't involve tackling, catching or kicking a ball at all, and is now Carlton's leading goalkicker.

Doesn't this list prove that any idiot can play AFL?

:-k

[Yossarian]

Doesn't the lack of money, fans, decent TV deal prove that NRL is a shit game? ;)

[Moe Norman]

Doesn't this list prove that any idiot can play AFL?

:-k

Sure, and Darren Lockyer, with an AFL background, after 2 years of league went to the Bronco's and became an all-time great.

I'm pretty biased, but there aren't many AFL players I can think of that wouldn't be gun League players - doesn't go the other way though.

Thing is, we'll never find out because nobody would be dumb enough to go from AFL to League!

[AndyP]

Thing is, we'll never find out because nobody would be dumb enough to go from AFL to League!
Except Adrian Barich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Barich). Western Australian, so enough said.

[Eag's]

So this has now turned into another AFL v NRL thread, great just what we don't need :roll:

[LarryLong]

You can hardly blame Folau and Hunt for wanting to play a better game.

[AndyP]

Karhunt's first training session:

http://www.afl.com.au/video/tabid/76/videoid/54861/hunts+afl+training+debut/default.aspx#VideoPlayerB

I would have liked to see him take an overhead mark or handball.

[Minor_Threat]

I grew up in Western Sydney and wasn't exposed to AFL until about 10 years ago having lived there for extended periods. I love (and have played both games competitively) , however I would have to say that AFL is certainly the more difficult game of the two.

Having followed both administrations closely, the AFL and NRL is like chalk and cheese, with the NRL not even on the same planet as the AFL.

[Moe Norman]

Depends on the person on which is more difficult.

I've been an Aussie Rules fan my entire life, yet I've played more Rugby Union/League than I have played Aussie Rules, mainly due to moving to QLD when I was 15 and discovering I was far better at Rugby.

I've played basically the lowest level of AFL there is in QLD the last few years, which by extension is probably one of the lowest levels in the country. I doubt I'd be able to go up too many divisions. I played 1st grade (or equivalent) in the 2 other codes!

[WBennett]

Shorn

Thommo's list proves that a player can be converted if they meet a certain skills set. My amateur team has had a former NRL Reserves player play a season for us. Could tackle and was useful by the end of the year. The current team has two former Canberra 1st grade leaguies playing, who say they would never go back to getting their heads knocked off every week.

As for talented Leaguies, I believe Laurie Daley played both up until about U16's where he was fully indoctrinated into the Raiders junior programs.


And Yoss, Adrian Barich was a Canberran. As was James Hird, Alex Jesalenko, Aaron Hamill, Brett Allison, Shaun Smith, Justin Blumfield and Craig Bolton among others.

[Yossarian]

You mean AndyP?

[AndyP]

Shut up, Yoss.

10 years plus of living in WA must have rubbed off on Barich.

[Jarro]

I just find it a little confusing that the AFL needs to employ a couple of top-shelf NRL players to promote their new clubs :smt017

Surely there'd be better people already playing AFL that could've been drafted to GWS and the Coast mob ?? They might've come a bit cheaper too.

Anyway, it's all done now ... good luck to all parties concerned.

I won't be watching to see how they go though. I'll just have to make do with watching State Of Origin carve up the ratings every year 8)

[Yossarian]

Given both new clubs are in NRL zones I think it does make a bit of sense.

I'd agree with everything else you said though. Except the SoO bit.

[AndyP]

What time do they show SoO over there, Yoss? Same day?

[Yossarian]

Honestly. No idea. I think it is usually same day but delayed a couple of hours. Although I recall it being live a couple of years back. I think sometimes it gets bumped back for bondi rescue and ACA.

[markTHEblake]

What makes this force feeding into a notoriously fickle market different from the previous attempts other than throwing an even bigger pile of money at it?

That is a good question Bruce that I have asked often myself, about both the new AFL and the NRL teams You probably have no idea how successful the Titans have been off the field, far more than what I ever imagined. Lots of govt money behind it, first rate stadium, and i think a population about double the size now. It seems that every man and his dog has dropped their favourite team and switched to the Titans, i dont know why people would do that though. Maybe less loyalty in Rugby League and some dissent towards the Broncos.

[Sydney Hacker]

That is a good question Bruce that I have asked often myself, about both the new AFL and the NRL teams You probably have no idea how successful the Titans have been off the field, far more than what I ever imagined. Lots of govt money behind it, first rate stadium, and i think a population about double the size now. It seems that every man and his dog has dropped their favourite team and switched to the Titans, i dont know why people would do that though. Maybe less loyalty in Rugby League and some dissent towards the Broncos.

But what will happen to those fans when the Titans go arse up because they are too far in debt ?

[Moe Norman]

I just find it a little confusing that the AFL needs to employ a couple of top-shelf NRL players to promote their new clubs :smt017

Surely there'd be better people already playing AFL that could've been drafted to GWS and the Coast mob ?? They might've come a bit cheaper too.

because none of the fans they are trying to attract have heard of them, this has created interest. They've paid their wages in media exposure already.


Anyway, it's all done now ... good luck to all parties concerned.

I won't be watching to see how they go though. I'll just have to make do with watching State Of Origin carve up the ratings every year 8)

shame they couldn't even sell out game 1 of the showpiece of the game ;)

[Jarro]

because none of the fans they are trying to attract have heard of them, this has created interest. They've paid their wages in media exposure already.



shame they couldn't even sell out game 1 of the showpiece of the game ;)

So by employing people who the potential supporter base have never heard of is their main strategy ???

Seems a bit strange ... as has been mentioned by a lot of current AFL players.

As for the origin, well ... the weather on the night really didn't lend itself to any kind of sporting event. It was a major credit to the two teams that they put on the spectacle they did.

TV ratings indicated it was a huge success, as it is every year.

Do the AFL have a SOO series every year ?

[Yossarian]

The WAFL play the vics and the SANFL so yes I guess so.

The point I think, and as I have already said, is to grab the attention of the many NRL fans in the areas these clubs are setting up in. They will be the people that go to the home games. Obviously the clubs are going to target some high profile AFL players as well to generate interest in that area as well.

PS

Bad weather wouldn't stop the showpiece of the AFL selling out.

[Sydney Hacker]

Depends on the person on which is more difficult.

I've been an Aussie Rules fan my entire life, yet I've played more Rugby Union/League than I have played Aussie Rules, mainly due to moving to QLD when I was 15 and discovering I was far better at Rugby.

I've played basically the lowest level of AFL there is in QLD the last few years, which by extension is probably one of the lowest levels in the country. I doubt I'd be able to go up too many divisions. I played 1st grade (or equivalent) in the 2 other codes!

That wouldn't have anything to do with you being a broken down old crock these days would it ?

[Jarro]

Bad weather wouldn't stop the showpiece of the AFL selling out.


The Origin series ?

I don't think our GF crowd would be affected by the weather

[PerryGroves]

The WAFL play the vics and the SANFL so yes I guess so.

The point I think, and as I have already said, is to grab the attention of the many NRL fans in the areas these clubs are setting up in.

You couldn't be farther from what it is about. The battle is for juniors, you might turn a few NRL supporters around but if the Swans haven't done it, the new team is also unlikely. Western Sydney is the AFL's biggest potential growth area, its all about JUNIOR PARTICIPATION

[Yossarian]

Sorry I thought someone called Origin the showpiece earlier, mayhaps I was mistaken.

[Yossarian]

You couldn't be farther from what it is about. The battle is for juniors, you might turn a few NRL supporters around but if the Swans haven't done it, the new team is also unlikely. Western Sydney is the AFL's biggest potential growth area, its all about JUNIOR PARTICIPATION

Firstly the swans never signed big name NRL players so we've got no idea how that would have gone.

Secondly I never said it wasn't about JUNIOR PARTICIPATION, it is a fair point though but JUNIOR PARTICPANTS also are fans no? I do agree it iis probably another major factor in the signing.

[markTHEblake]

But what will happen to those fans when the Titans go arse up because they are too far in debt ?

Are they in debt? I have no idea. I am one of the few people around here that don't have any interest in them.

[WBennett]

I don't want to get into a he said she said shenanigans, but AFL had a bigger crowd for a club home and away fixture (Collingwood vs Geelong sellout) than the NRL has had to any match in years.

When was the last home and away sell out in the NRL?

[Sydney Hacker]

Are they in debt? I have no idea. I am one of the few people around here that don't have any interest in them.

Apparently in quite a lot of problems even if the win the court case currently in process. They are trying to build some state of the art training facility which has put them into right up to their necks.

[Sydney Hacker]

I don't want to get into a he said she said shenanigans, but AFL had a bigger crowd for a club home and away fixture (Collingwood vs Geelong sellout) than the NRL has had to any match in years.

When was the last home and away sell out in the NRL?

Gee that was a good effort at avoiding those he said she said shenanigans !

[Scottt]

Interesting thread, this.

One thing that might run in the NRL's favour is the remarkable ignorance of some fans, who are so brainwashed by the "GayFL" hatred that even if their brother won a Brownlow they would never watch the game or allow their kids to watch it or play it. On the basis of that the league will probably continue to tick over, but I think the days of the NRL growing - either the number of teams or fans/viewers - is a long way away, if ever.

A few points, in relation to posts here and just rambling:

1. Perhaps above all else it's a massive middle finger to the NRL that the AFL can afford to do this. The amount of money they have is immense and the junior development is savvy. They also have the benefit of, like soccer, mums feeling their kid can play and won't get his neck snapped.

2. Having edited one of Blacktown's local papers for a year before I moved OS, I can say unquestionably that there is MASSIVE interest in the GWS AFL franchise, especially among the Polynesian community, which is a remarkable pool not just of fans, but players. Those saying imemdiate success is essential are probably right, but playing into the AFL's hands is that Blacktown doesn't have a professional team in any other major sport. The district was already starting to embrace "their" team two years ago - long before it had any drawcards like Izzy, Sheedy etc. Of that massive community are many immigrants who've not grown up on a diet of league.

3. The NRL's latest dramas have shown it up for the glorified park footy it is. The exodus of players to the UK Super League, to rugby and occasionally to the AFL is going to continue, and perhaps accellerate, as the amounts of money involved continue to skyrocket, and with that the quality of play, which has been declining for five years or so, IMO, will also continue.

4. As it ceases to be such a massive moneyspinner, News Ltd will gladly reduce its propping up of the NRL and focus elsewhere. I'd reckon that will be catastrophic when it does happen, though it will appease the Tommy Raudonikises of the world who reckon the footy was better when the players got $200 a week in a brown paper bag and played with filthy hangovers, or still drunk!

5. On-topic, finally, I'm with Thommo that brilliant athletes are remakably adaptable and the massive threat that I don't think many NRL fanatics perceive is that if Folau and Khunt are even passable at the game there will be more NRL players targeted and, more importantly, the stocks of under-age rugby league stars will be seeing an increase in the scouts watching their games and offering the sort of $$$ the NRL cannot compete with.

6. I mentioned mum feeling safe that junior won't get his neck snapped playing Aussie rules, hand-in-hand with that is the fact that most women I know much prefer AFL players for a perve and the public reputation of the game, a few scandals aside, is so much better than league it's not funny.

Looking at this short-term, it's a mountain to climb still for the AFL, but bugger me if every sign doesn't point to it taking a much larger piece of the pie in NSW and Queensland, and that's something I don't believe the NRL can really afford.

[Moe Norman]

So by employing people who the potential supporter base have never heard of is their main strategy ??? but they have heard of them, all the kiddies in Western Sydney would know who Isreal Folau is and all the kiddies on the GC would know who Hunt is. They wouldn't know who Chris Judd or Gary Ablett are, which is exactly the point.


As for the origin, well ... the weather on the night really didn't lend itself to any kind of sporting event. It was a major credit to the two teams that they put on the spectacle they did.

there has not been a sellout in a SOO match in NSW for over 5 years, has it rained every time? (Collingwood and Sydney managed to get 70,000 there not that long ago though)



Do the AFL have a SOO series every year ?

Nope, the core product is far too valuable, the home & away season is far too important to be removing the best players for 3+ weeks and compromising the competition.

People vote with their feet, and with their wallets it would seem.

[Minor_Threat]

Good post Scottt, you are right about one thing and that is the kids. There is a position for all shaped and sized kids in AFL, this is something that League cannot offer.

[PeteyD]

I don't want to get into a he said she said shenanigans, but AFL had a bigger crowd for a club home and away fixture (Collingwood vs Geelong sellout) than the NRL has had to any match in years.

When was the last home and away sell out in the NRL?

I see plenty of empty AFL stadiums too. Not everyone is as fanatical as the black and white weirdos! But the point is well taken considering the crap crowds that show up at most NRL games.

[Minor_Threat]

I see plenty of empty AFL stadiums too. Not everyone is as fanatical as the black and white weirdos! But the point is well taken considering the crap crowds that show up at most NRL games.
Current stats are showing the AFL running at an average of ~38K compared to the NRL ~17K. They are figures the NRL could only dream of.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/summary.html

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

[PeteyD]

True. I was surprised to see the empty stadium. I think it was Port in Adelaide. Guess Port fans only come out when they are winning.

[Tongueboy]

and Channel 9 wants Monday night football but also wants to fill the empty seats at matches with a digitally enhanced crowd to give it more atmosphere!

[LarryLong]

Scottt's post makes a lot of sense.

If either of the two players manages to carve out a 5-year $400k per season career on the back of a fun dalliance with Aussie Rules, what would you start thinking if you were a ridiculously athletic 14 year old kid living in NSW or Queensland?

Dad, can you pick up a red sherrin on the way home from work?

As for the two converts, it will be all about learning to kick a footy properly. It was a fashion about 3-5 years ago for AFL clubs to draft athletic freaks and then try to teach them to kick. I know of one example from down my way where a kid the same age told me that another kid, who got rookie listed, was "as soft as shit, couldn't kick, but could run like nobody's business". He didn't make it, and in recent years the trend has shifted back to valuing kicking skills above everything else as the game has shifted that way.

I think they probably have all the other required attributes or can learn them easily enough, although I know very little about Folou other than the fact that he is known for high 'marking' abilities (which probably means he's the only bloke in the NRL who can catch a footy in his hands), and I know nothing at all about Hunt.

[Sydney Hacker]

Current stats are showing the AFL running at an average of ~38K compared to the NRL ~17K. They are figures the NRL could only dream of.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/summary.html

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

I won't try and dispute the figures because as you say they are numbers that the NRL could only dream of, but could the fact that league is a game much better suited to TV the aussie rules have a part to play in that ?

All of the action in league is on the ball, AFL live is an eye opener. The amount of action that goes on off the ball is great to watch.

[Grunt]

How about we all build a bridge and get over it?

AFL may be truely National and NRL only an East coast game and they all have their good and bad points.

People have left the NRL before and will in the future. It will not die, and to be totally honest I do not give a f#$& if it is only on the East coast because that means I can go and watch it if I want too almost every week.

How about we all just co exist?

[WBennett]

Petey

Port, North, Bulldogs and Melbourne will never sell out stadiums. Port average 20,000 if they count properly... North less.

But a struggling Richmond have drawn 72000 against Carlton and 64700 against Essendon. Not bad for a team that has won one game all year, and that was last week!

The lowest two crowds of the year were sellouts at Darwin and Canberra. The lowest crowd at a game in Melbourne was 16479 between Adelaide and North at Docklands. It looked terrible, then you realise it was equivanlent to the season AVERAGE at an NRL game!

But back to GWS - I am involved with AFL Canberra. The amount of money the AFL is prepared to pump into GWS is staggering. It is the 'next big thing' - and if they can get 15,000 or so at games at Blacktown, with the occasional 'blockbuster' (Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn) at ANZ drawing 30kplus, then I think the AFL will be happy.

There is also a consideration that getting to a Swans game from say Penrith is a bloody expensive experience. Allow up to 1.5 hours by road, $20 in tolls, the same in parking, and voila you are there and back. Going half an hour down the road to Blacktown or Homebush is a far more family friendly proposition.

I think GWS mayt struggle for 10 years, and might also be the little brother to the Swans, but the AFL has deeper pockets than anyone can really imagine and will be willing to burn a huge amount of money to make it work.

[Grunt]

No Tolls from Penrith anymore Benno ;)

[Scottt]

Que? They booted the toll on the M4?

[jimandr]

To go right back to the opening post, I think there are no winners in the signing of Hunt and Folou for the megabucks. Not the signing per se, but the amounts are obscenely large, and will cause damage in the following ways.

For Folou and Hunt: they have shown themselves to be money whores, and can only earn credibility by staying in AFL after their contracts end. Otherwise, they risk being looked at in the same way as people in Sydney look at Sonny Bill Williams. He is still the most unpopular man in League, and would be commercial poison if he were to try to return to league.

For AFL: they are on a hiding to nothing, and an expensive one. The salary bar has been raised for any superstar off contract. Ablett will want the same, so will N Reiwaldt and anybody else at that level. That pay level filters down, so eventually all the money goes to players who don''t need it, to the detriment of the game as a whole. Teams get into debt trying to compete, they start cheating salary caps and draft rules... and you can guess the rest.

As far as the publicity angle goes, I don't think this is a case where any publicity is good publicity. Those who are hostile will remain hostile, those who are curious would have been curious anyway, and those who don't care will have a quick look and then go back to what they did before GWS woke them up for five minutes. They would've been better off signing Fevola or Ben Cousins (maybe they still will?) as foundation captain.

For League and Union: Again, the elite players set their salary bar higher based on this transaction, and take attention away from the qualities that make the game good.

I can't speak for the Gold Coast, but I can speak about my observations of Sydney sports fans. I don't share Scottt's optimism for the strength of passion of western Sydney sports fans. Grass roots interest and support does not necessarily translate to bums on seats at the ground, corporate support or revenue. Sydney fans just aren't as tribally passionate as those in Melbourne. We are interested, but we'll only support teams while they are winning, and we lose interest quickly. Basketball is the perfect example. Sydney went from two reasonably well supported teams to none, and nobody missed them. Soccer has never really taken off as a spectator sport at the elite level, despite it being by far the biggest junior participant sport in Sydney.

I live in the southwest heartland. Everybody I know talks about the Wests Tigers, and how it is a shame they don't play at Campbelltown more often, but we struggled to get more than 10k to the game last Friday night. (I didn't go, either. I'm a typical supporter in that regard).

[Grunt]

It reached it's end date in February Scott now a freeway.

[PeteyD]

Nice points Jim, although you can not compare them with Silly Dill as he broke his contract to bugger off. Moving onto a job at the end of your contract is a different thing entirely.

[mike]

A good thread threadjacked.

But while we're on the NRL v AFL crowd topic, it's been the case for as long as I can remember that melbourne sport fans are much more fanatical than Sydney sport fans.
I saw it first hand when I was in Melbourne a couple of years ago. There was a one day cricket match on. Every shopping centre we went to there were people crowded around TVs watching it. We went to Federation Square and there was a cinema sized screen set up and there must have been hundreds of people sitting there watching. I doubt you'd see that in Sydney. My brother-in-law spent a year teaching in Leongatha and couldn't get over how crazy everybody was about AFL.
It's a good game. I don't like it but I can see how many would.

Back to crowds. Can someone give me a comparison between the Broncos average home crowd and the Lions average home crowd?

EDIT. I meant Lions not Bears.

[Moe Norman]

To go right back to the opening post, I think there are no winners in the signing of Hunt and Folou for the megabucks. Not the signing per se, but the amounts are obscenely large, and will cause damage in the following ways. the winners are the AFL, the megabucks have already been paid for in media exposure.


For Folou and Hunt: they have shown themselves to be money whores, and can only earn credibility by staying in AFL after their contracts end. Otherwise, they risk being looked at in the same way as people in Sydney look at Sonny Bill Williams. He is still the most unpopular man in League, and would be commercial poison if he were to try to return to league. Rubbish. Sonny Bill Williams walked out on a contract. Izzy and Hunt signed new contracts in other codes and played out (or intend to) their existing contracts in Rugby League. All players are money whores, there is not one person who honestly can say they wouldn't accept a 300% payrise if offered to them, its rediculous to suggest otherwise.


For AFL: they are on a hiding to nothing, and an expensive one. The salary bar has been raised for any superstar off contract. Ablett will want the same, so will N Reiwaldt and anybody else at that level. That pay level filters down, so eventually all the money goes to players who don''t need it, to the detriment of the game as a whole. Teams get into debt trying to compete, they start cheating salary caps and draft rules... and you can guess the rest. Incorrect. Unique circumstances for a unique situation. The AFL has a salary cap and players won't want or be able to demand anymore than they are now, player movement in the AFL is also strongly restricted, you don't juet get to go to the highest bidder. With the introduction of 2 new clubs, they both have concessions that will gradually be scaled back. Izzy and Hunt have average playing contracts, and then promotional contracts with the AFL (not the clubs) that won't count towards the salary cap.


As far as the publicity angle goes, I don't think this is a case where any publicity is good publicity. Those who are hostile will remain hostile, those who are curious would have been curious anyway, and those who don't care will have a quick look and then go back to what they did before GWS woke them up for five minutes. They would've been better off signing Fevola or Ben Cousins (maybe they still will?) as foundation captain. kAgree to disagree, but you're wrong ;)



I can't speak for the Gold Coast, but I can speak about my observations of Sydney sports fans. I don't share Scottt's optimism for the strength of passion of western Sydney sports fans. Grass roots interest and support does not necessarily translate to bums on seats at the ground, corporate support or revenue. Sydney fans just aren't as tribally passionate as those in Melbourne. We are interested, but we'll only support teams while they are winning, and we lose interest quickly. Basketball is the perfect example. Sydney went from two reasonably well supported teams to none, and nobody missed them. Soccer has never really taken off as a spectator sport at the elite level, despite it being by far the biggest junior participant sport in Sydney.

I live in the southwest heartland. Everybody I know talks about the Wests Tigers, and how it is a shame they don't play at Campbelltown more often, but we struggled to get more than 10k to the game last Friday night. (I didn't go, either. I'm a typical supporter in that regard).

It's somethign the AFL does very well. The Lions get 30,000 even when going head to head with the Reds/Bronco's and when they are near the bottom of the ladder, it's just a tribal sport. Then also factor in that when the big clubs come to town, all the old supporters come out of the woodwork. Lions games vs Collingwood in Brisbane could be mistaken for a Collingwood home game, the same happens in Sydney sometimes.

[Moe Norman]

Back to crowds. Can someone give me a comparison between the Broncos average home crowd and the Lions average home crowd?


about 33,000 broncos to 30,000 Lions.

Lions sellout = 35,000 though, so hard to get the average up.

[Scottt]

It's definitely the case in Sydney, Moe. My old boss is a Collingwood fan and used to drag us to the footy when they came to town. Joffa and his inbred mates made up about 60% of the crowd.

hang on Moe, the Broncoes AVERAGE 33,000? Seriously?

[markTHEblake]

With the introduction of 2 new clubs, they both have concessions that will gradually be scaled back. Izzy and Hunt have average playing contracts, and then promotional contracts with the AFL (not the clubs) that won't count towards the salary cap.

In the paper it was said that a clubs payments to rookies is not included in the Salary cap, therefore the $1M that they will pay Hunt has no impact. Thus freeing them up to still throw the $1.5M at Ablett. They also said the AFL is underwriting Hunt, i assume that meant that they are paying the lot, but i guess that could also mean that they are paying for the promotional work component, they didn't make it that clear.

[Minor_Threat]

A good thread threadjacked.

But while we're on the NRL v AFL crowd topic, it's been the case for as long as I can remember that melbourne sport fans are much more fanatical than Sydney sport fans.
I saw it first hand when I was in Melbourne a couple of years ago. There was a one day cricket match on. Every shopping centre we went to there were people crowded around TVs watching it. We went to Federation Square and there was a cinema sized screen set up and there must have been hundreds of people sitting there watching. I doubt you'd see that in Sydney. My brother-in-law spent a year teaching in Leongatha and couldn't get over how crazy everybody was about AFL.
It's a good game. I don't like it but I can see how many would.

Back to crowds. Can someone give me a comparison between the Broncos average home crowd and the Lions average home crowd?

EDIT. I meant Lions not Bears.See below mate.. The Broncos have the Lions by ~2K this year.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/brisbanel.html

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/brisbane.html

[dc68]

There is a position for all shaped and sized kids in AFL, this is something that League cannot offer.


I don't see the little fat kid who becomes a prop still getting a run in AFL.

[mike]

about 33,000 broncos to 30,000 Lions.Nope .Close. 34000 for broncos and 29000 for the lions.. The Lion's best attendance in '09 was 34000 against Collingwood.


Lions sellout = 35,000 though, so hard to get the average up.Nope. Capacity is 42000 according to this. (http://www.msfa.qld.gov.au/content/venue.asp?name=Gabba_History)
If it's such a good product why can't the Lions get more of a home crowd?

[AndyP]

Only 5000 less in a rugby league state, and you think they should get a lot more?

[mike]

There is a position for all shaped and sized kids in AFL, this is something that League cannot offer.MT, you normally make sense and you seem to be a good bloke for a Bulldogs supporter but this is the stupidest thing I've ever read.

AFL players all appear to be tall and wiry. NRL players can be short and chubby (Soward), tall and graceful (Inglis), small and wiry (Preston Campbell) or big and fat (Weyman)

Give me an example of an AFL player with Soward's or Weyman's build.

[mike]

Only 5000 less in a rugby league state, and you think they should get a lot more?
I wouldn't consider QLD a rugby league state anymore.

[mike]

This thread is getting stupid now.

[LarryLong]

I don't see the little fat kid who becomes a prop still getting a run in AFL.

That's what cheer squads are for. :)

Oh, and the same goes for 70kg skinny weaklings like my good self, I might add. Aussie Rules might provide a slightly broader range of roles, but you still need to have a few physical attributes to cut it at the top level.

That said, at the grassroots level anybody can play. I know at least a couple of fat kids who have enjoyed good junior footy careers as Lockett-esque immovable object full forwards until the other kids grew up. One of my uni mates played schoolboys footy, running around like a wrecking ball taking out the little tackers with gay abandon. He didn't find out that he was too slow, too unfit and actually not that good at footy until he was at least 18.

[AndyP]

This thread is getting stupid now.
Your comments certainly are.

[mike]

AFL sux

[mike]

I liked post #102. Let's all read it again.

[Daves]

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/brisbane.html

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/brisbanel.html

[Yossarian]

How about we all build a bridge and get over it?

AFL may be truely National and NRL only an East coast game and they all have their good and bad points.

People have left the NRL before and will in the future. It will not die, and to be totally honest I do not give a f#$& if it is only on the East coast because that means I can go and watch it if I want too almost every week.

How about we all just co exist?


You NRL homos started it.

And we won't have to coexist once we steal all your players and fans. :D

[MegaWatty]

You NRL homos started it.

And we won't have to coexist once we steal all your players and fans. :D
They may take our fans!

But they'll never take.....






.....OUR UGG BOOTS!

[markTHEblake]

AFL players all appear to be tall and wiry. NRL players can be short and chubby (Soward), tall and graceful (Inglis), small and wiry (Preston Campbell) or big and fat (Weyman)

Is that why you play checkers?


Give me an example of an AFL player with Soward's or Weyman's build.I would like to try, but i have never heard of these people. Pics would be helpful.

Though i will admit, there have been very few AFL players over 110kg.

[WBennett]

Cyril Rioli or Robyn nahas would be similar to Soward.

Waymen is a fat lazy piece of crap* who would not survive in modern AFL - but Fat Lance Whitnall played at around 100kgs.



*bitter Raiders fan coming out there, he is vastly improved these days.

[Minor_Threat]

Give me an example of an AFL player with Soward's or Weyman's build.

I hate to mention Jake King, but he does actually get a run with Richmond. We can also go back to the days of Libba or Greg Williams (although he might be a little tall).

In regards to short fat kids, I have seen plenty plonked down forward in the goal square as they can usually out muscle / weigh there oppenent and dont need to move much if the ball is kicked towards them!

[3oneday]

How about we all build a bridge and get over it?
wouldn't you drive over it though as opposed to get ?

Gayest saying ever. Quite appropriate for this thread too :)



There are as many knee injuries in AFL as there is in netball.

[PeteyD]

Well stay out of it Pooh.

AFL fans are fanatical weirdos. Having said that, I dragged my family to every Reds game last year, when they were playing crap.

The tribal mentality must be strong in Melbourne. I blame the weather.

[Moe Norman]

Nope .Close. 34000 for broncos and 29000 for the lions.. The Lion's best attendance in '09 was 34000 against Collingwood.

Nope. Capacity is 42000 according to this. (http://www.msfa.qld.gov.au/content/venue.asp?name=Gabba_History)
If it's such a good product why can't the Lions get more of a home crowd?

It was a sellout on Saturday night and the attendance was in the 34's. I personally didn't see an empty seat anywhere. I know several people who wanted to go who couldn't get a seat.

It was a sellout last year as well and got less than 35,000. The Ashes test in 2006 was the hottest ticket in town, sold out 8 months in advance. Attendance was under 37,000.

So essentially, the position that the capacity is 42,000 in the current configuration of the ground is fanciful.

[Bushka]

Just to throw another Hat in the ring,

The Rugby world cup is pretty good, solid international competition. How did the AFL go at their last world cup?

[WBennett]

Rugby World Cup?

What, 5 good teams, and 15 teams making up the numbers?

Its like putting an AFL team up against a suburban side for the qualifying rounds, just like the cricket and league world cups.

The only genuinely competitive on a world wide scale world cup starts next week in South Africa, and even its an overblown monstrosity these days.

[Bushka]

Well it's like putting the Australian AFL team up against...crickets....

and theres plenty of competitive teams, apart from saffas kiwis and ozzies the argies are now a quality side, Italy have started moving up the ladder and the old faves of ENgland/ireland/scotland/france/Wales are nothing to scoff at either, the island nations are all pretty screwed now after being raped of talent for decades by New Zealand and to a lesser extent Australia.

Theres even a second string european international comp now which a mate of mine coachs in (Georgia) and they pulled 30k ppl to an international against Russia a few months back. Very cool :)

I love the soccer world cup. Only True world game, but the English fans freak me the hell out.

[Moe Norman]

Thats the only thing AFL obviously doesn't rate on, internationals. But who cares?

Hasn't caused any issues in revenue or support.

[AndyP]

A low profile match for Falau; I only just came across it.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/greater-western-sydney-recruit-israel-folau-a-work-in-progress/story-e6frf9jf-1226020435247

As predicted, game smarts are going to be the major problem.

[TheTrueReview]

A low profile match for Falau; I only just came across it.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/greater-western-sydney-recruit-israel-folau-a-work-in-progress/story-e6frf9jf-1226020435247

As predicted, game smarts are going to be the major problem.

When I saw the game highlights, he reminded me of one of those dogs that get loose & run onto field & then aimlessly chase the ball around.

[Grunt]

Have heard AFL people say that he was only bought for the profile and they expect him to have a tough time converting to the game. They cant work out what position he would be suited to.

[Moe Norman]

they only got him for marketing and profile?

jesus, someone call Sherlock Holmes!

[Jarro]

He and his family are most thankful for the money

[Grunt]

jesus, someone call Sherlock Holmes!

You are Jesus aren't you Moe so why dont you call yourself ;)

[TheTrueReview]

He and his family are most thankful for the money

The problem is that it's tough playing for 3 years while being continuously derided as a joke. From NRL hero to AFL zero.

[Yossarian]

Rowan Jones made a career out of it.

[Moe Norman]

The problem is that it's tough playing for 3 years while being continuously derided as a joke. From NRL hero to AFL zero.

he could come good, it's only his first game.

Hunt looks like making the best 22 for GC's first game - which I thought was very unlikely a year ago, in fact I thought it was unlikely a month ago

[markTHEblake]

The problem is that it's tough playing for 3 years while being continuously derided as a joke.

There is only one way you would know that!

Folau is not the first player to be imported into another sport, Collingwood has invested in American Basketballer who less than 2 years ago had never kicked a ball before, and there are others in similar positions. Pretty sure another club is trying to pluck athletes out of Africa, may have already done so.

[LarryLong]

The problem is that it's tough playing for 3 years while being continuously derided as a joke. From NRL hero to AFL zero.

I know which one I'd rather be. I guess this Folau chap feels the same. :)

[TheTrueReview]

This guy was the world's best basketballer. Then he got the urge to 'prove himself' at baseball. He never got out of the minor leagues. All he proved is that being elite at one sport, doesn't guarantee being elite at another.

MJ inevitably returned to basketball. I draw a strong comparison with the MJ experiment to the future for Folau.

http://www.imissthe90s.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/michael-jordan-baseball.jpg

[Moe Norman]

http://images.3aw.com.au/2009/07/02/613909/Jim%20Stynes%20playing172.jpg

This guy was a very good Gaelic Footballer, he got the urge to make lots of cash playing AFL. He went on to win a Brownlow Medal and is now President of the Melbourne Football Club.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200806/r260868_1084850.jpg

This guy was arguably the best Gaelic Footballer, he got the urge to make some cash playing AFL and went on to be a key player in a Premiership. He then got the urge to go back and prove himself in Gaelic Football and went home and won an All-Ireland final. He then came back and is now a key player for the Swans again

[TheTrueReview]

Time will tell Moe. IMO there's way more of a similarity between Aussie Rules and Gaelic Football than either of the rugby codes and aussie rules. Heck, some elite players can't even handle the switch between rugby codes.

This guy was one of the world's best rugby union forwards.

http://images.smh.com.au/2010/06/01/1530629/35741364-600x400.jpg

Then he switched to league and was a complete failure.

http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/garrick.jpg

Watching highlights of Folau aimlessly chasing the football last week, reminded me of Garrick Morgan aimlessly chasing the pill when he was at the Crushers.

[Moe Norman]

thats why the recruit people with specific athletic abilities that a re transferable.

Note that the AFL didn't go after front rowers.

Gaelic football is very different, round ball, no contact etc etc.

Here are two better examples:

Sam Gilbert - state representative Leaguie, didn't play AFL until he was 17, now an elite half back and was drafted in the Top 20 less than 1 year after taking up the game.
Keiren Jack - son of Gary Jack, state level Leaguie, converted to AFL at 15 and now the Swans reigning Best & Fairest.

These 2 wouldn't have had anywhere near the help, coaching, development available to Hunt/Folau when they converted either.

Another example is 204cm Lachlan Keefe, who will play for Collingwood this year. He was 19 when we recruited him and had never played any form of contact sport, just soccer. He now looks likely to play quite a few games in the best team in the land.

[TheTrueReview]

Hmmm ... don't know if they're actually better examples. Just - examples. To bring it back on topic, I've seen nothing to indicate that Folau will become an elite AFL player. Time will tell. I think it's going to be a long winter for Izzy.

[Minor_Threat]

Dean Brogan - Won an NBL Championship with Adelaide 36ers and is now the Ruckman for Port Adelaide.

*Edit* He also actually won a flag with Port in 2004.

[rubin]

I can see what Moe's saying.

Ibbotson at the Dockers didn't touch a football till he was 16. Was a state soccer player and handy at B'Ball. PLayed at school for laughs and was alright, got selected in a few teams, and now he's a young up and comer.

The theory works, as long as the right people are selected. In this case, I dont think either rugby boys are going to make it in the AFL.

[Moe Norman]

Hmmm ... don't know if they're actually better examples. Just - examples. To bring it back on topic, I've seen nothing to indicate that Folau will become an elite AFL player. Time will tell. I think it's going to be a long winter for Izzy.

nobody has, he's played one game in his entire life - and was also in a team hopelessly out of its depth. He wasn't alone.

Hunt didn't even rock up till late last year, Folau is giving himself much more time to learn the game - which can only be a good thing.

[AndyP]

Hunt didn't even rock up till late last year, But he was practicing bouncing the ball in Paris much earlier.

[markTHEblake]

All he proved is that being elite at one sport, doesn't guarantee being elite at another......I draw a strong comparison with the MJ experiment to the future for Folau.]

Who is suggesting that Folou has potential to be an elite player?

Even Karmichael Hunt who had some AFL background was not expected to be in the best 22 when the Suns hit the deck - though some reports suggest he is now good enough for them to play in round 1.

[LarryLong]

I think nowadays you could teach a newcomer to play AFL if they have the right physical attributes and coordination. The game is now quite structured in terms of the way teams set up and execute their gameplans and players can learn a role in a team much more easily. Give Folau time to learn how to position himself on the field and where to run to, and the rest might come.

[AndyP]

But Sheedy will expect him to play forward, ruck and back all in the same game.

[LarryLong]

But Sheedy will expect him to play forward, ruck and back all in the same game.

I'm sure whoever it is that quietly walks around telling players what the gameplan is while Sheedy stands up the front and rants will take care of that.

[markTHEblake]

But Sheedy will expect him to play forward, ruck and back all in the same game.
So does every player on the field these days.

[WBennett]

Once they work out where Izzy will play, he will be right. He will have 12 months in the local league to dominate size and speed wise, learn the game, stay out of the spotlight.

In 12 months time he could be the next Nic Natanui for all we know...

[Minor_Threat]

Once they work out where Izzy will play, he will be right. He will have 12 months in the local league to dominate size and speed wise, learn the game, stay out of the spotlight.

In 12 months time he could be the next Nic Natanui for all we know...Maybe a better example will be required, he is nothing special tbh.

[Moe Norman]

Nic Nat will be.

Has a ruckman ever been any good before they are about 21/22?

[Minor_Threat]

Nic Nat will be.

Has a ruckman ever been any good before they are about 21/22?Time will tell I guess, but you are correct not many young ruckman have been to good.

[TheTrueReview]

Who is suggesting that Folou has potential to be an elite player?

.... .

Err .... GWS.

[markTHEblake]

Err .... they are not.

[Moe Norman]

depends on definitions.

If you play at AFL level, I would say you are elite

Many people define and 'elite player' as one that is in the best dozen or so in the comp, which Izzy will never be.

[TheTrueReview]

Err .... they are not.

Err ... eau contraire.

[AndyP]

Four goals for Falou on the weekend. Not bad. There's a video clip on the link, if you want to have a look. All chest marks though.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/israel-folau-admits-to-being-down-in-the-dumps-at-times-over-afl-switch-but-says-he-has-made-right-move/story-e6frf3e3-1226060420728

[just]

All chest marks though.
No problems, that's all Jonathon Brown ever does.

[Moe Norman]

not sure if you're serious, use an emoticon next time

[kpac]

Thought Brown looked strong first game back myself. Certainly has an awesome presence at Half forward. Shame the team itself is in disarray.