Limiting club lofts

[Scottt]

What would you think if the R&A and USGA restricted golf club lofts to between 15* and 56* (inclusive) to combat the increased distance the ball travels and the reduced value of short game imagination brought on by lob wedges?

[Rooster]

I'm not sure about limiting to 15deg but 56 would be a great rule.

If I could change 1 rule, I would make a 9 club limit.

[Bushka]

Are you talking about rules for professional tour golfers or for Joe Average like myself?

It's already difficult enough for most of the worlds golf happy population to get round without scoring at least a bogey on every hole. It's just sadistic to make it any harder to hit the ball for someone like me...Why do you hate me?

Why?

[razaar]

Now why would the R&A ban the driver and the high lofted wedges which have been a part of the game since forever? I have a smooth faced Niblick (circa 1890s) that is almost a lob wedge. The 56* SW can be made into a lob wedge by laying the face open - moving the handle backwards and lowering it.

[just]

Now why would the R&A ban the driver and the high lofted wedges which have been a part of the game since forever? I have a smooth faced Niblick (circa 1890s) that is almost a lob wedge. The 56* SW can be made into a lob wedge by laying the face open - moving the handle backwards and lowering it.
Exactly Ray. Stupid way to deal with the issue. Muck around with the ball not the clubs.

[TheNuclearOne]

I'd near quit golf.

[Johnny Canuck]

A while back, Tiger Woods suggested that a way to combat to way the game was being played, ie. bash driver into the rough, hit a lob wedge close (it might have been aimed at Phil) was to limit loft on wedges to 56*.

[marcel]

I'd prefer a limit of 2 clubs in your bag with a loft of more than 50 degrees. That way you could play around with your set-up depending on course, conditions etc.

[Peter]

How many average club golfers would score better if you forced them to use a 15* driver and took their lob wedge away from them?

[Rooster]

How many average club golfers would score better if you forced them to use a 15* driver and took their lob wedge away from them?

Probably 90% of them

[Iain]

I'd rather see them limit driver length, driver head size and golf ball compression.

[Peter]

Some of you blokes are tough - next you'll be telling me how many beers I'm allowed to have after the game.

[marcel]

Some of you blokes are tough - next you'll be telling me how many beers I'm allowed to have after the game.

32

[Minor_Threat]

The 56* SW can be made into a lob wedge by laying the face open - moving the handle backwards and lowering it. Thats not the point though is it? It is not a 58* or 60* wedge by default..

I think it is a great idea but very difficult to enforce. Lofts can change over time and it isn't the simplest thing to check. Reducing the number of clubs to 9 or so would probably be better.

[TheNuclearOne]

I think they should leave us ams alone - end of. Not like 95% of us have any real mastery. We need all the help we can get, if they are going to f' around do it with the pro's.

[just]

How many average club golfers would score better if you forced them to use a 15* driver and took their lob wedge away from them?


Probably 90% of them
Would you like me to give it a go? I've got a 16* driver(need to change the shaft first) I can swap in and I can drop the 58* wedge.

[Scottt]

The responses are pretty much as expected. I do think it would hurt average golfers less than they think, but convincing them of that would be nigh on impossible. The driver rule especially would help them, I think.

Raz - I am surprised you say that you have a club that old with that loft given how outraged many were when Sarazen invented the sand wedge for the Open in the 30s. Does it have any bounce? To me the bounce combined with the loft is what makes a LW so easy for average players. I'd love to see a pic. Smooth faced though? So it wouldn't be real useful from rough or bunkers...

[Hux]

Most of us have enough LOFT without the well meaning but pointless suggestions.
I couldn't care 2 hoots about losing my lob wedge. I use it in the bunker and maybe 1 shot a round off the grass.
But 15* driver - WTF for???

With all the changes in gear the average score of an amateur and avg handicaps hasn't really changed - so what would this achieve. If its about the pro's - well make suggestions on how to change things for them instead. They are the ones that practice bomb and gouge...the rest of us practice scrap and scrape.

[TheNuclearOne]

Now why would the R&A ban the driver and the high lofted wedges which have been a part of the game since forever? I have a smooth faced Niblick (circa 1890s) that is almost a lob wedge. The 56* SW can be made into a lob wedge by laying the face open - moving the handle backwards and lowering it.

This technique takes a bit of talent tho and is partly why the lob wedge was invented. You get the same shot with a 60* without all the manipulations. You can also manufacture the shot off tighter lies than the open sandy.

[TheNuclearOne]

Most of us have enough LOFT without the well meaning but pointless suggestions.
I couldn't care 2 hoots about losing my lob wedge. I use it in the bunker and maybe 1 shot a round off the grass.
But 15* driver - WTF for???

With all the changes in gear the average score of an amateur and avg handicaps hasn't really changed - so what would this achieve. If its about the pro's - well make suggestions on how to change things for them instead. They are the ones that practice bomb and gouge...the rest of us practice scrap and scrape.

Exactly. I've got myself to the point where hitting driver is finally an advantage as i am now hitting it reasonably accurately. I would undoubtably move backward. Heaven forbid the poor old guys (of which my club is full of) who only hit driver 130 - 220 meters and last missed a fairway in 2005. For many optimal distance will come under 15*, certainly at courses with run. Give them their 11.5* 460cc (etc) soft shafted high launching drivers for goodness sake.

[Courty]

I agree with Hux. As far as the pros go, I think it would be more effective to reduce the number of clubs they can carry rather than the lofts.

[sms316]

I think they should leave us ams alone - end of. Not like 95% of us have any real mastery. We need all the help we can get, if they are going to f' around do it with the pro's.

So where would you draw the line?

At the moment with the wedge rules I could go to pre-qual for the Australian Open and use an "illegal" wedge but would then have to change for the tournament if I got in.

Where is the sense in that?

[MegaWatty]

You know what? I have no problems with Pros making a lot of birdies and the more than occasional eagle. It's exciting for the game which is continually touted as boring by people that don't love it like us.

We are seeing records broken in so many sports with the assistance of technology (swimming) but also by human improvement (pole vaulting). Mind you, I'm guessing they're improving the pole with technology somehow!

Anyway, I say let them make low scores. It really doesn't mean anything. It's just a low score!

[TheNuclearOne]

So where would you draw the line?

At the moment with the wedge rules I could go to pre-qual for the Australian Open and use an "illegal" wedge but would then have to change for the tournament if I got in.

Where is the sense in that?

Qualifying for the Australian Open isn't exactly handicap golf, certainly not the level of golfer i am thinking about. You're talking about an incredibly small percentage of golfers.

Your point in that given scenario is a good one tho.

[sms316]

Qualifying for the Australian Open isn't exactly handicap golf, certainly not the level of golfer i am thinking about. You're talking about an incredibly small percentage of golfers.

Your point in that given scenario is a good one tho.
It doesn't matter when the line is. That was just the first thing that popped in my head.

It will be more bizarre in a couple of years when your local club champ can't use those wedges in their state amateur, but can use them in their Wednesday stableford. Where is the sense in that?

Whatever rules are used should be for one and all.

[TheNuclearOne]

Well nobody at my club and nor as far as i know the others in my city will be affected by those scenario's.

I can agree on one rule for all - they simply need to out this stupid new groove rule. The pro's have issues with it and had a decent chop at axing it.

As Hux said, the average score and handicap of us strugglers hasn't changed much. We enjoy all the help we can get and for us it simply makes the game more enjoyable. The game is already difficult enough for us.

[markTHEblake]

I can agree on one rule for all

The R&A seems to be absolute on one rule for all, but looking at equipment restrictions for the pro's is a massive can of worms, and i think that the equipment makers would lobby very hard against it.

[TheNuclearOne]

The R&A seems to be absolute on one rule for all, but looking at equipment restrictions for the pro's is a massive can of worms, and i think that the equipment makers would lobby very hard against it.


I could not agree more Blakey. There has been talk for many many years about winding the ball back for the pro's.

[just]

Would you like me to give it a go? I've got a 16* driver(need to change the shaft first) I can swap in and I can drop the 58* wedge.
I've been using the Houdini (16* driver) for a couple of weeks and I have to say I've been very happy. I got Perci to re-shaft it with an Accra SC75 that I bought off Virge and it's 44" long. I've been hitting the short stuff with amazing regularity (for me that is). Distance is about the 180-185m mark (measured by GPS) with a high ball flight, although I can sneak the occasional one past that if the wind is not up. Only issue is it makes long par 4's a bit more difficult, but with my handicap I should be playing them as par 5's anyway.

[Moe Norman]

The highest loft I have is 57*, so it wouldn't affect me much. I've carried a 60* wedge for about 6 months total of my golfing life and never played worse!

The drvier thing wouldn't bother me too much either, as I hit my 15* 3 wood as far as my driver if I catch it well.

[TheNuclearOne]

The highest loft I have is 57*, so it wouldn't affect me much. I've carried a 60* wedge for about 6 months total of my golfing life and never played worse!


I dumped the 60 for a 58 and it was beneficial. 2* made a fair size difference. The 60* was a bit too much club for me and what i wanted to do.

[henno]

The highest loft I have is 57*, so it wouldn't affect me much. I've carried a 60* wedge for about 6 months total of my golfing life and never played worse!

The drvier thing wouldn't bother me too much either, as I hit my 15* 3 wood as far as my driver if I catch it well.

I'm with Moe. I carry a 60* at the moment, but could easily ditch it if I had to. I also bang my 3w out there a mile, so I wouldn't be too fussed if I had to ditch the driver.

[morgy]

I have both a 60* and a 64* in the bag at all times, and I enjoy them both at my home course for different reasons. The 64* is the only thing that allows me to get the ball close when I'm on the short side with a tight lie, a regular occurrence for me. Its also fantastic out of the sand.

I don't see the point in limiting anything that drastically, so long as everyone has access to the same technology then what is the problem?

[razaar]

The responses are pretty much as expected. I do think it would hurt average golfers less than they think, but convincing them of that would be nigh on impossible. The driver rule especially would help them, I think.

Raz - I am surprised you say that you have a club that old with that loft given how outraged many were when Sarazen invented the sand wedge for the Open in the 30s. Does it have any bounce? To me the bounce combined with the loft is what makes a LW so easy for average players. I'd love to see a pic. Smooth faced though? So it wouldn't be real useful from rough or bunkers...

Sorry mate, I missed this post. I'm in Rocky at present but will get a pic up when I get back home.

Sarazen didn't invent the sandwedge, he was the one who brought it to prominence when he won the Masters in 1938 (the year he had his double eagle on 15th). I have the name of the person who designed it (somewhere at home) and will look it up when I get back.

[Scottt]

He actually unveiled it at The Open at Prince's (which he won) in 1932.

[Sydney Hacker]

He actually unveiled it at The Open at Prince's (which he won) in 1932.

Didn't he add bounce to the sole for the first time as opposed to actually inventing the SW ?

[just]

Who cares about some old **** and sand wedges! Let's get back tyo talking about my 16* driver

[Sydney Hacker]

Who cares about some old **** and sand wedges! Let's get back tyo talking about my 16* driver

Why, don't most people in here carry a 3 wood already ? :lol:

[IanO]

I played for years without a driver and was more consistently on the short stuff with my 3 wood than I am now. Hmm ... maybe I should stop wrestling with the driver and just use the 3 off the tee.

[Daves]

I played for years without a driver and was more consistently on the short stuff with my 3 wood than I am now. Hmm ... maybe I should stop wrestling with the driver and just use the 3 off the tee.

or even a Hybrid will do the job if you a really struggling, or it is important to end up on the short stuff.

[goughy]

What would you think if the R&A and USGA restricted golf club lofts to between 15* and 56* (inclusive) to combat the increased distance the ball travels and the reduced value of short game imagination brought on by lob wedges?

Didn't Seve once say that the maximum loft should be restricted to 54*. Then again, that would have played into his hands.