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Eag's
25th March 2010, 08:29 AM
Recently I have been having real dramas with my bunker play where I knife most of my shots.
I am interested in hearing what people think causes thin shots out of bunkers? Is it a set up issue ie - ball to far forward or to far back, bad technique etc...? I am heading to the range on my days off determined to fix the problem :(

Daves
25th March 2010, 08:37 AM
Make sure you dig in well, helps to get the club swinging under the ball.

A few things I try to do to avoid knifing;

quiet body, bunker shots should be mostly upper body and arms.

pick the spot behind the ball the club face is going to enter the sand and hit down into it. If I am on a down hill lie with more potential for a "knife" I try to play it Mickelson style, swing hard, weight toward the back foot and hit it very fat so it comes out like a lob shot. Open the club face as much as you are comfortable with also.

Makes sure I am using the right bounce. If it is a hard claypan like bunker then you need low bounce so the club can burrow in and not just bounce off.

sms316
25th March 2010, 08:45 AM
Accelerate through the ball.

If you don't (which you don't do well tbh) you will either chunk it or knife it. The other thing to work on is to get your hands close to your body at the top of your swing. This will make you come in steeper rather than shallow.

virge666
25th March 2010, 08:50 AM
Phil's DVD - $23 on eBay and will sort all these problems out. Peter Cowan's bunker masterclass is also a great DVD on the subject - but it is bunkers only.

You are not keeping the bend in your right wrist through impact - and this presents the bottom of the blade to the ball. You will also not be facing teh target after the shot, which is the give-away.

Enjoy

Eag's
25th March 2010, 08:57 AM
I think you guys are on the money about the quiet lower body, I tend to shift my weight laterally and decelerate as Sms pointed out.
Rich, I like the tip trungy gave you I will give that a crack at the range.

razaar
25th March 2010, 09:05 AM
You are on the right track Eags, get the left knee to the target side of the left foot and leave it there during the shot. Bend the knees more at address this lowers the arc so you swing under the ball. On all good level lies and uphill lies play the ball almost opposite the left toe and hit the sand one and a half inches behind the ball with a slightly open face. Use a short backswing and follow through with the triangle of the shoulders and arms facing the target.

just
25th March 2010, 09:09 AM
This might help Eagsy:
http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/Golf/videotips/searchresults/Bunker-Play/The-new-way-to-play-bunker-shots---the-butterfly-grip/

Courty
25th March 2010, 12:43 PM
You reading this Haysey? ;)

Eag's
25th March 2010, 05:54 PM
Thanks for the tips guys hopefully I can sort my shit out.

Jarro
25th March 2010, 06:01 PM
I think another good tip is to make the entire swing nice and smooth with a slower tempo, not a quick jerky stroke

henno
25th March 2010, 06:04 PM
I am alright out of bunkers for a chopper, but I used to be ordinary. Phil's DVD helped a lot, especially the quieting down of the lower body and ensuring I accelerate through the ball.

I also watched a video on youtube where the guy talks about having a larger margin of error in bunkers (half an inch or more) as opposed to a tight lie and as a result, a lot of pros don't mind being in the fluffy stuff as long as they aren't short-sided. That made sense to me and as such I was no longer frightened to hit the ball with a bit of power. Knifing a few balls kills confidence which leads to tentative swings which leads to deceleration which leads to knifing balls... rinse... repeat.

Webster
25th March 2010, 06:13 PM
hit the sand, not the ball.

MegaWatty
25th March 2010, 06:15 PM
Best advice I've ever taken for bunker play was from Vijay Singh. I saw an article during a tourney where he promotes having alot of your weight onto your left foot.

Since that day, I've loved playing bunkers.

Golfnut
25th March 2010, 10:36 PM
Best advice I've ever taken for bunker play was from Vijay Singh. I saw an article during a tourney where he promotes having alot of your weight onto your left foot.

Since that day, I've loved bunker players .

:oops:

MegaWatty
25th March 2010, 10:38 PM
:oops:

?

Shouldn't have given you any advice?

Golfnut
25th March 2010, 10:40 PM
That's cool MW.....Flushers off 22 don't find bunkers :lol::mrgreen:

markTHEblake
25th March 2010, 10:58 PM
I am interested in hearing what people think causes thin shots out of bunkers?

fear and stupidity. How hard is it to hit the ball fat? yet people knife the ball out of bunkers more than when not in them.

p.s. i knife lots of bunker shots, i put it down to loss of focus, overridden by fear.

Bushka
26th March 2010, 09:08 AM
I actually practice from getting up and down from the sand a lot and have had a few bunker lessons.

The biggest turning point for me was maintaining my weight toward my left side/front foot right throughout the swing taking a little more sand.

Very rare for me now to get it thin and kill people who are wondering around on other fairways.

nesbit
26th March 2010, 01:13 PM
I was also having bunker issues untll i watched this video a few times and so far so good. Good luck

http://www.robertallenby.com/iframe_video14.htm

gazgolf1
26th March 2010, 06:00 PM
I was also having bunker issues untll i watched this video a few times and so far so good. Good luck

http://www.robertallenby.com/iframe_video14.htm

Nice shoes Sandy.

Eag's
26th March 2010, 06:56 PM
One green side bunker today, one knife #-o
Work in progress.

parlyboy
27th March 2010, 12:21 AM
Had quick bunker lesson today, think Faldo like. Ball forward, club to the sky, lazy hands. I knifed 1 out of 20.

TheNuclearOne
7th April 2010, 08:29 PM
:twisted:



http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3686/saverback.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/saverback.jpg/)

Hux
26th May 2010, 04:54 PM
Without doubt the best advice I have seen is off Robert Allenby's website.
http://www.robertallenby.com/gallery_video_instruction.asp

His presetting of the knees is just marvelous stuff. I practiced this last night. I considered I had the accelerated wristy action to cut under the ball but suffered from the changing body height. The knees trick works a treat and I am pretty keen to see how it goes on course as I felt 100% confident with it afterwards.

virge666
26th May 2010, 05:02 PM
Nah, that's awful - this is the one you want to follow.

http://www.saveamillionshots.com/videos/pete-cowens-basic-bunker-shot

Eag's
26th May 2010, 05:32 PM
I have had a look at both vids and I have to agree with Hux, Allenby's approach looks the goods.
Mind you I will give both methods a go :)

virge666
26th May 2010, 06:05 PM
I have had a look at both vids and I have to agree with Hux, Allenby's approach looks the goods.
Mind you I will give both methods a go :)

Fair enough - take your pick. I will say this . . .

Peter Cowan is pretty much the bunker king, he invented THE method that is now the standard throughout Europe. He made the video "Bunker Masterclass" and teaches some of the highest ranked pro's on the planet, including Westwood and Stenson. Cowan's small change to the grip, the "butterfly grip" along with his ability to get the ball out of a bunker without sidespin is nothing short of genious. Google "Peter Cowan ripple effect" for more info. The golf show did a special on him when he was out a few years back which was a 10 minute abridged version.

But if you like the handsy, stab and hold off, flop shot that Allenby plays - go for it.

:)

Choppa
26th May 2010, 08:23 PM
Take Vegas to the range and get him to give you a tip. I was shit outta bunkers till Dion gave me some advice. Literally took 2 minutes. I have never had any problems since, and am completely confident and comfortable in bunkers now.

razaar
26th May 2010, 08:34 PM
The simpleist method to play a basic bunker shot for handicap golfers is a little different to the splash and semi-splash shots played by the pros. With a square or slightly open face of the SW, position the ball well forward in the stance with a wide stance and the shoulders level. During the swing the right shoulder has to stay high and allow the top half to provide the power to explode the clubhead through the sand taking the ball with it. The head and shoulders move at least 6 inches forward during the swing. What you don't want to do is to let the right shoulder get low and the upper body drop behind the ball. There is a weight shift to the left during the swing , more upper body than legs. The clubface is held square or slightly open through the sand. Concentrate on a spot 2 inches behind the ball and splash the sand onto the green. A good thought to have is to maintain the hip angle from woe to go with the top half moving through and forward. If you start blading it then there is a big chance you are closing the clubhead during the through-swing.

Hux
26th May 2010, 09:13 PM
Jeez Raz that must have been tough to type. I am a bit too visual for it to work with. Needs someone demonstrating.

Virge....at my level I just want to get out reliably . Allenby's method worked in wet sand and loose sand and with a buried ball. At this point OUT is what I need not 2" from the pin.

Eag's
26th May 2010, 09:17 PM
Virge, as I said I will give both methods a crack. I don't care what method I go with as long as the result is better than what I am getting right now :oops:

virge666
26th May 2010, 09:38 PM
Boys,

I am just winding you up. The big thing with bunkers is just a bit of practice.

The bit that I like with Pete is that it is the same swing you have for full shots and chipping. Allenby is a bit old school with the "take the club way outside and hold it open" with the hands behind the ball at impact. Pete actually releases the hands through impact like you do a full shot, without breaking down the wrists. (which for mine is vital, especially under pressure)

But here is the most important bit . . . the club rotates through impact just like a normal shot. You don't hold it open and flip the hands under the ball. This way you don't quit on the shot, you dont dig it in the sand and stop and most importantly - you can use your body speed instead of your hand speed to control the distance.

You will see Phil demonstrate the same way in his video, Ernie Els is another advocate of this method.

Thats the technical stuff done with - just head to a bunker and see how you go . . . one last thing, the harder the sand - the less bounce and less open the wedge.

Enjoy

Johnny Canuck
26th May 2010, 10:32 PM
Perfect timing for this Virge. I am struggling a little bit at the moment.

TourFit
26th May 2010, 11:21 PM
I'll say...so woud Nuffie.

I would imagine it would be a struggle off 3....

Johnny Canuck
26th May 2010, 11:28 PM
Only struggling with bunkers, mate. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

Nuffie
27th May 2010, 12:01 AM
The other thing to work on is to get your hands close to your body at the top of your swing. This will make you come in steeper rather than shallow.

VERY TRUE SMS as the reverse is also true: By actually picking the club up very steeply in bunker shots, with an open face and taking it way outside (like old school as I often do for very short-sighted bunker shots hitting off hard sand in particular), the hands end up staying very close to your body. I never thought of it this way round, but my hands stay close as a result of doing all those other things right. Taking the club straight outside the line on the backswing and up very steeply stopped me from coming in flat as a youngster - this caused me to leave heaps of shots in the sand by "knifing" them. Keeping your weight planted on the front foot throughout the swing has also helped me well over the years - David Fearns taught me that from the Cabramatta days when I was only 13.

Now these days I eat bunkers for breakfast - for good use of a pun, I dont mean literally :).