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Jarro
23rd February 2010, 12:31 PM
Anyone else (besides Iain) familiar with this guys methodology ?

He gets a great wrap from the swing officianados at GolfWRX.

http://www.youtube.com/user/martinez19696

Iain
23rd February 2010, 12:43 PM
I've told him about Ozgolf. He said he's going to join up sometime, I don't think he's had the time yet though.

Jarro
23rd February 2010, 12:44 PM
How are your lessons going Iain ?

Happy with the results ?

Iain
23rd February 2010, 12:48 PM
Yeah, I've had 3 now. Went out and played 9 (or 7) holes this morning. Hit it very nicely, not much curve to my ball at all. Starting to come together nicely.

razaar
23rd February 2010, 12:58 PM
Looks to be based on Ben Hogan's swing.

Iain
23rd February 2010, 01:07 PM
Looks to be based on Ben Hogan's swing.

Spot on Ray, I know Hogan is a huge influence on Marty's swing, he's not trying to duplicate it, but basing it on what he see's in hogan's swing. As well as Tiger's swing actually.

Hopefully he'll join up soon and he can explain it better.

Jarro
23rd February 2010, 01:09 PM
Iain, is he still down at Parkwood ?

Or is he willing to travel to get new students ;)

Iain
23rd February 2010, 01:21 PM
Iain, is he still down at Parkwood ?

Or is he willing to travel to get new students ;)

Are you willing to travel to go to a good coach?!! :p

Yeah, he's still at Parkwood, not too sure about travelling though? It's only 30mins for me so that's not an issue I have... 8)

Jarro
23rd February 2010, 01:22 PM
It was a joke anyway ;)

I'm keen to travel down there to see him for a lesson.

just
23rd February 2010, 01:51 PM
Is this the crossbow stuff that Gaz talks about?

Jarro
23rd February 2010, 01:56 PM
Sure is just

3oneday
23rd February 2010, 02:10 PM
Geez, I just looked at a few of those swings, that Nori guy's clubhead is as shut as I've seen :shock:

Eag's
23rd February 2010, 02:15 PM
Is this guy a Pro?
I am at work so can't view youtube clips :(

adlo
23rd February 2010, 02:25 PM
Henno should see this guy.

All those swings seem very flat.

razaar
23rd February 2010, 02:28 PM
Geez, I just looked at a few of those swings, that Nori guy's clubhead is as shut as I've seen :shock:
I hope that is the before swing.;)

adlo
23rd February 2010, 02:29 PM
I actually thought all the swings have a shut clubface.

razaar
23rd February 2010, 02:35 PM
Welcome to Ben Hogan...lots of pronation (left forearm turns to the right, especially at the start of the downswing).

Iain
23rd February 2010, 02:36 PM
Is this guy a Pro?
I am at work so can't view youtube clips :(

Yeah Eags, he is. He teaches out of Parkwood international. He used to play on tour but I think injuries forced him to give up on that.


Geez, I just looked at a few of those swings, that Nori guy's clubhead is as shut as I've seen :shock:

Have you see mine.... :oops: Although I am trying to square it up.

adlo
23rd February 2010, 02:36 PM
Wasn't Hogan basically an anti-hook swing?

Iain
23rd February 2010, 02:37 PM
Yep.

razaar
23rd February 2010, 02:38 PM
Wasn't Hogan basically an anti-hook swing?
Yes.

Eag's
23rd February 2010, 03:06 PM
Wasn't Hogan basically an anti-hook swing?


Yep.

Sign me up now!!!! :mrgreen:

Iain
23rd February 2010, 03:12 PM
Eag's, I went and played some holes this morning, I didn't hook one ball.... My drive down 9 was in the left rough...

By about 2 inches!! That was as close to a hook as I got in the holes I played. 8)

Eag's
23rd February 2010, 03:36 PM
Sounds very interesting :-k

Jarro
23rd February 2010, 03:39 PM
Eagsy, there might be a couple of Nudgee-mafia members heading down to Parkwood for a lesson with Martinez soon ;)

Stay tuned .....

AndyP
23rd February 2010, 03:51 PM
Is this another OZgolf fad coach? How many is that now?

gazgolf1
23rd February 2010, 03:52 PM
Here is the videos that got me interested that Martinez put up on Golfwrx 1 year ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9gcvcRRWGo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=AU&hl=en-GB&v=rrKDbhC6lVg

Eag's
23rd February 2010, 04:02 PM
Is this another OZgolf fad coach? How many is that now?

I for one have never been to a fad coach AP.

AndyP
23rd February 2010, 04:05 PM
Jarro certainly seems to jump around from one to another, even if he actually doesn't go to them.

Iain
23rd February 2010, 04:09 PM
Jarro certainly seems to jump around from one to another, even if he actually doesn't go to them.

Maybe he can visit Gary Edwin at the same time!!! :p

razaar
23rd February 2010, 04:23 PM
Is there anybody down there teaching the Kel Nagle swing. Now that is a swing to copy...Hogan's is too complex and is only for those who have an extremely strong left side and can achieve a straight right arm in a high follow through position. Nagle had a swing that was as close to perfect as one would wish for.

gazgolf1
23rd February 2010, 04:42 PM
Is there anybody down there teaching the Kel Nagle swing.

Yeah this guy.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/gazgolf1/abe-simpson.gif

Sorry Ray I could'nt resist. :wink:

razaar
23rd February 2010, 05:01 PM
:lol:

henno
23rd February 2010, 05:02 PM
Henno should see this guy.

All those swings seem very flat.

I did notice that. Good to see! ;)

martinez
23rd February 2010, 05:31 PM
G'day. :) Nice forums.

Any questions you guys have about the stuff in my videos or anything else....I'll do my best to answer them.

Nori's clubface was really shut yes, that was his first lesson though so his swing is not exactly my model swing. ;)

Iain
23rd February 2010, 06:07 PM
Look out, he's finally joined! Hopefully won't take too long to get approved for posting!!

virge666
23rd February 2010, 08:04 PM
He just teaches the one plane swing much like Jim Hardy.

The crossbow idea is I think what Peter Jacobson refered to the takeaway - I could be wrong there... running off memory.

Anyway - single plane - Jim Hardy - Enjoy

henno
23rd February 2010, 08:27 PM
Anyway - single plane - Jim Hardy - Enjoy

Very relevant to my interests. ;)

markTHEblake
23rd February 2010, 08:34 PM
Have never seen him there - but then again, i probably go a bit late ;-)

OZgolf Mod
23rd February 2010, 08:48 PM
G'day. :) Nice forums.

Any questions you guys have about the stuff in my videos or anything else....I'll do my best to answer them.

Nori's clubface was really shut yes, that was his first lesson though so his swing is not exactly my model swing. ;)
Post approved.

AndyP
23rd February 2010, 08:48 PM
Look out, he's finally joined! Hopefully won't take too long to get approved for posting!!Fast enough for you?

Iain
23rd February 2010, 09:22 PM
Yeah, not bad...

;)

martinez
23rd February 2010, 10:37 PM
He just teaches the one plane swing much like Jim Hardy.

The crossbow idea is I think what Peter Jacobson refered to the takeaway - I could be wrong there... running off memory.

Anyway - single plane - Jim Hardy - Enjoy
Yes, you are wrong Virge. Leading the backswing with the right elbow taking it away would be very detrimental to what I'm trying to do. There would be some crossover with a lot of methods, but it's not JH one plane.

@MarkTHBlake...you practice at Parkwood in the evenings? I'm normally out of there these days by 5pm at the latest. :)

Eag's
23rd February 2010, 11:13 PM
Well it certainly looks simple enough and it does make a lot of sense.

markTHEblake
23rd February 2010, 11:48 PM
@MarkTHBlake...you practice at Parkwood in the evenings? I'm normally out of there these days by 5pm at the latest. :)

Some of us have to work!

razaar
24th February 2010, 01:22 AM
Welcome Martinez.

Are you tied in with Ian Triggs and Chris McCourt?

3oneday
24th February 2010, 06:35 AM
Yes, you are wrong Virge.
Oh, I sooooo like Martinez 8)



;)

3oneday
24th February 2010, 06:40 AM
Now, back to the swing..... My interest has peaked.


From what I have seen, you "aim" your hips and legs to just in front of the ball but your shoulders are square to the target ?

After a while (I think during #3) it reminded me of a pro who once said the first part of your body to reach the ball was your left shoulder ?

razaar
24th February 2010, 07:19 AM
Now, back to the swing..... My interest has peaked.


From what I have seen, you "aim" your hips and legs to just in front of the ball but your shoulders are square to the target ?

After a while (I think during #3) it reminded me of a pro who once said the first part of your body to reach the ball was your left shoulder ?
The ball in your left pocket?
:mrgreen:

3oneday
24th February 2010, 07:35 AM
The ball in your left pocket?
:mrgreen:
my sack isn't as old or as loose as yours is clearly ;)

martinez
24th February 2010, 07:36 AM
Welcome Martinez.

Are you tied in with Ian Triggs and Chris McCourt?
No I'm not, but I have a healthy respect for both. Chris does all my clubs and that of my students, he is very very good in that regard.


Some of us have to work!
Poor bugger. ;)


Well it certainly looks simple enough and it does make a lot of sense.
If I had a motto regarding how I see the game, that might be it.

Now, back to the swing..... My interest has peaked.


From what I have seen, you "aim" your hips and legs to just in front of the ball but your shoulders are square to the target ?

After a while (I think during #3) it reminded me of a pro who once said the first part of your body to reach the ball was your left shoulder ?
That's a good summation of our intent with the address. You set to the shot, and the target, not to a swing. The idea of setting everything parallel to the line is counter productive imo.

In Golf we have the perfect opportunity to choose our position, other sports you have to often move quite a long way to get in good position to strike the moving ball.

Ironic isn't it, that we don't make full use of that advantage....I include myself until recently (when this occurred to me). I'm now halfway to impact before I've even moved the club, and I have a really good relationship to the target and a good sense of where the target is in relation to the other target, the ball. That's what I build peoples swings around, not lines on a screen and not positions. The good thing has been, they hit better positions on the screen anyway.

razaar
24th February 2010, 07:55 AM
That's a good summation of our intent with the address. You set to the shot, and the target, not to a swing. The idea of setting everything parallel to the line is counter productive imo.

In Golf we have the perfect opportunity to choose our position, other sports you have to often move quite a long way to get in good position to strike the moving ball.

Ironic isn't it, that we don't make full use of that advantage....I include myself until recently (when this occurred to me). I'm now halfway to impact before I've even moved the club, and I have a really good relationship to the target and a good sense of where the target is in relation to the other target, the ball. That's what I build peoples swings around, not lines on a screen and not positions. The good thing has been, they hit better positions on the screen anyway.
Vivien Saunders (my favourite swing guru) advocates this address set up also, i.e. the address position should be a rehearsal of the impact position. She states that the more similar the address position and impact, the better the swing will be. "The feeling at address should be of posing the impact position for a photograph - some suggest with the hips a touch open, to produce the exact 'impact'". An advantage with this setup is that it tightens the swing earlier without the evil slack creeping in, so sequencing the through swing can begin in the final stages of the backswing. Good stuff.;)

Toolish
24th February 2010, 08:19 AM
TGM has a similar idea called impact fix...determine your impact alignments and work everything back from there.

sms316
24th February 2010, 08:20 AM
This sounds very fad-like to me.

No offence.

3oneday
24th February 2010, 08:20 AM
Aren't all "ideas" fads ?

sms316
24th February 2010, 08:22 AM
Probably.

3oneday
24th February 2010, 08:23 AM
It's just that some generate millions whilst some don't ;)

martinez
24th February 2010, 08:53 AM
Yeah, I guess that's similar. To me we need to be more forward at impact than we are at address if we have made a dynamic move at the ball toward the target. So I wouldn't say I'm in the impact position at address, but directing my body toward the direction of that impact position.

Either way, both ways are far better than being stuck at the ball with no intent of being in position to hit it.

Definitely not impact fix, I advocate mid body hands position with little to no shaft lean.

I don't really care if it's a FAD or not (no offence taken mind you), all I'm trying to do is help people play better golf, I have found something that has transformed my game, and I was a pretty decent player before that transformation, it's helping others. I would rather help a million hacks get better than one tour player. I'm not interested in changing the minds of swing aficionados who have their own method and agenda. Not trying to prove anything. It's all about enjoyment and good golf.

sms316
24th February 2010, 09:19 AM
I don't really care if it's a FAD or not (no offence taken mind you), all I'm trying to do is help people play better golf, I have found something that has transformed my game, and I was a pretty decent player before that transformation, it's helping others. I would rather help a million hacks get better than one tour player. I'm not interested in changing the minds of swing aficionados who have their own method and agenda. Not trying to prove anything. It's all about enjoyment and good golf.
Fair enough. What works for some people will not work for others.

Forgive my skepticism. But what you have said so far sounds like one of those full page advertorials which you see deep inside some magazines.

3oneday
24th February 2010, 09:27 AM
The proof I guess would be in the pudding. How quickly could one expect improvement, improvement measured in handicap reduction?

martinez
24th February 2010, 10:02 AM
Fair enough. What works for some people will not work for others.

Forgive my skepticism. But what you have said so far sounds like one of those full page advertorials which you see deep inside some magazines.

I welcome your skepticism. But so far you haven't offered anything but skepticism. :)


The proof I guess would be in the pudding. How quickly could one expect improvement, improvement measured in handicap reduction?
I generally see immediate improvement, but the more important thing is lasting and continued improvement, that should be the goal. Most people improve fleetingly then regress.

If we take Iain as an example, he is a 10 HCP. We just started working together, but if he drops his HCP by a couple of strokes in the next couple of weeks, I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't have been surprised if we had made no changes if he did the same thing. The important thing is his ball has gone from curving 10-30 yards to 0-5 yards and he's hitting it more solid....and he knows why, or at least better than he did before. His scores will drop, sooner and later.

So I guess as a teacher, I would not be concerned if the HCP didn't drop immediately, I would be concerned if the player didn't see how it would/could drop significantly in time.

virge666
24th February 2010, 10:39 AM
Yes, you are wrong Virge. Leading the backswing with the right elbow taking it away would be very detrimental to what I'm trying to do. There would be some crossover with a lot of methods, but it's not JH one plane.


Martinez - WELCOME !!

Totally agree on crossover - a few questions and love your comparison to other sports - I am huge fan of this.

What and who are your influences ? Where and when did you play ?

on the swing methodology...

What do you lead the backswing with ? ..or how do you start the backswing?

It looks like you change planes on the downswing - sort of driving the right shoulder and flattening it out... am i right with this ? If not - what is your ideas on the transition ?

Your swing looks like any normal one-plane swing pattern - identifying the pattern is easy - how you get to the pattern is the fun bits. I love the "bow" takeaway, I would like to know why you change it to "crossbow" on the way down.

lastly - you say that you rotate your "right side behind your left hip", can I get some more info on this. I cant see this in your swing.

Great to have a real teaching pro here !!

virge666
24th February 2010, 12:40 PM
lastly - you say that you rotate your "right side behind your left hip", can I get some more info on this. I cant see this in your swing.


Ignore this - I see what you are doing. Your backswing pivot matches this on the downswing.

That is a sensational idea for the downswing as long as you keep that right shoulder up and flat.

Wonderful way to get the feeling. Cheers.

martinez
24th February 2010, 02:43 PM
Martinez - WELCOME !!

Totally agree on crossover - a few questions and love your comparison to other sports - I am huge fan of this.

What and who are your influences ? Where and when did you play ?
Aside from the great teachers I have been fortunate enough to have had, John Kelly and Bob Weir my major influences in recent times have been Ben Hogan, Tiger Woods and Abe Mitchell
on the swing methodology...

What do you lead the backswing with ? ..or how do you start the backswing?

I want my hands to go directly in.....inside my arms, a physical impossibility but it sets the correct dynamic sequence. I believe this is what Hogan talked about when he said in 5 lessons that the correct sequence for the backswing is HANDS/ARMS/SHOULDERS/HIPS. If done the way I describe it ends up blending the hands, arms and shoulders as a unit, also described in 5 lessons
It looks like you change planes on the downswing - sort of driving the right shoulder and flattening it out... am i right with this ? If not - what is your ideas on the transition ?Curious as to what planes you see me using....will help me answer your question better......You are correct in that the right shoulder is a key component of that

Your swing looks like any normal one-plane swing pattern - identifying the pattern is easy - how you get to the pattern is the fun bits. I love the "bow" takeaway, I would like to know why you change it to "crossbow" on the way down. Best description I can make for why I do it is to imagine you are going to absorb the torque of the Golf club. The club wants to open on the way back and close on the way through by virtue of the CoG being outside the shaft.....this is a visual and 'feel' of countering those forces. Moe called it leading the lag....lagging the golf club all the way. It is a very prevalent move in golfers swings (Julius Boros is a prime example of a great player that this motion is blatantly obvious in, more subtle but still there in Tiger) before the advent of modern instruction where we wanted pretty pictures on both sides of the ball

lastly - you say that you rotate your "right side behind your left hip", can I get some more info on this. I cant see this in your swing.

Great to have a real teaching pro here !!
Great questions, my answers in bold above.
Cheers
Martin

razaar
24th February 2010, 03:15 PM
Martin you mentioned that your teaching method is influenced by three golfers, I almost fell off the chair when I read Abe Mitchell was one. His book "Down To Scratch" is one of my favourite instruction works (written by a player), even though it was published in 1933. Far out!

martinez
24th February 2010, 04:20 PM
I have "length on the Links" and "Down to Scratch" in my collection. Great books. His description of how to use the body in the Golf swing is far superior imo, to anything you will read from the pre-eminent bio-mechanics people today.

adlo
24th February 2010, 06:16 PM
Martin you mentioned that your teaching method is influenced by three golfers, I almost fell off the chair when I read Abe Mitchell was one. His book "Down To Scratch" is one of my favourite instruction works (written by a player), even though it was published in 1933. Far out!

Do you remember reading that one as a teenager Raz?

razaar
24th February 2010, 06:24 PM
Do you remember reading that one as a teenager Raz?
Not sure if I could read back in those days Adam. If I did , it would have been Tarzan books. The only golf I saw was in the finger stall at the movies when they showed movietone shorts of Bobby Jones demonstrating the various golf shots. In one clip he was rebounding balls off a tree trunk (green behind him) over a bunker to a flag stick. I remember a few of the balls went into the hole. In others he was hitting 3-wood shots at the camera. You could put a blanket over all the balls. He demonstrated chipping the ball on the green over stymes, straight into the hole. ;)

markTHEblake
24th February 2010, 06:26 PM
Martinez, you didnt mention Jim Hardy in any of that yet it seems that you teach along those lines. Not that Jim's method is exclusive anyway (obviously - its just his distinction between one and two plane that is, sort of)

anyway interested in your thoughts on One Plane from the Hardy book :-)

martinez
24th February 2010, 06:46 PM
Martinez, you didnt mention Jim Hardy in any of that yet it seems that you teach along those lines. Not that Jim's method is exclusive anyway (obviously - its just his distinction between one and two plane that is, sort of)

anyway interested in your thoughts on One Plane from the Hardy book :-)

The reason I didn't mention Jim Hardy is that I don't teach along the lines of Jim Hardy. There might be some cross-over as I said, but from what I have seen of his teaching (which doesn't include the book) , there are significant differences.

3oneday
26th February 2010, 09:46 AM
You know, I just tried the "knees and hips turned to in front of ball" in the crapper. I'm thinking this could solve my block (ie, sliding of hips), might give it a workout tomorrow 8)

Jarro
26th February 2010, 09:48 AM
You know, I just tried the "knees and hips turned to in front of ball" in the crapper. I'm thinking this could solve my block (ie, sliding of hips), might give it a workout tomorrow 8)

The most obvious place to practice a swing drill :roll:

:p

razaar
26th February 2010, 10:22 AM
You know, I just tried the "knees and hips turned to in front of ball" in the crapper. I'm thinking this could solve my block (ie, sliding of hips), might give it a workout tomorrow 8)
This is an Abe Mitchell tip - take a slightly open stance, then screw the right hip forward by bringing the right knee forwards and inwards (hips more open than the feet), next is to square the shoulders parallel to the ball/target line. Then if you still have the urge, get on with your business.

;)

3oneday
26th February 2010, 10:30 AM
This is an Abe Mitchell tip - take a slightly open stance, then screw the right hip forward by bringing the right knee forwards and inwards (hips more open than the feet), next is to square the shoulders parallel to the ball/target line. Then if you still have the urge, get on with your business.

;)see, now I almost got caught with what you said re the slightly open stance. I don't believe that is correct. Feet are still aligned at target but hips and knees are aligned in front of the pill.

That's the way I read it anyway.

But I might duck back to the dunny to check ;)

razaar
26th February 2010, 11:53 AM
see, now I almost got caught with what you said re the slightly open stance. I don't believe that is correct. Feet are still aligned at target but hips and knees are aligned in front of the pill.

That's the way I read it anyway.

But I might duck back to the dunny to check ;)
Make sure you are standing when you check.:)

Abe's words not mine, he goes on to say the slightly open stance helps in clearing the left hip. And you thought it was Gary Player who discovered this?;) Abe would have picked it up from somebody before him.

martinez
26th February 2010, 01:24 PM
"Everything that is known was known in the first 15 minutes"-Quote from someone famous.

I'm not trying to invent the wheel, just making sure it rolls smoothly. ;)

3oneday
26th February 2010, 03:33 PM
Make sure you are standing when you check.:)

Abe's words not mine, he goes on to say the slightly open stance helps in clearing the left hip. And you thought it was Gary Player who discovered this?;) Abe would have picked it up from somebody before him.

Raz, this is about Martinez mate, not some rambling recollection you have from 1508 ! now stop confusing me and let the man speak !

:p

razaar
27th February 2010, 06:44 AM
Sorry 3, won't happen again.

;)

gazgolf1
27th February 2010, 05:37 PM
Unit looks to be flushing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vSN7v6lyJw&feature=sub

martinez
27th February 2010, 09:25 PM
Unit?
Unit is well on his way to low single figures......at worst.

3oneday
28th February 2010, 12:27 AM
You sure that LOFT won't hold him back at all ???




;)

Iain
28th February 2010, 05:20 AM
Nevermind....

goughy
28th February 2010, 07:45 AM
Unit?
Unit is well on his way to low single figures......at worst.

Didn't know he was losing that much weight!!

martinez
28th February 2010, 08:37 AM
Unit is fading away to a block of flats.

gazgolf1
11th March 2010, 04:25 PM
Iain,
how are the lessons going?, I've seen the swing on Youtube and it looks pretty different from your old swing. What do you think are the main differences between old and new?

Iain
11th March 2010, 06:08 PM
Hey Gaz, lessons are going great. Marty's stuff is sticking quite well with me.

I'd say the biggest change is my backswing, my hands and arms are coming in more, whilst I'm not really turning to the right on the backswing, I'm turning into my firm right side, which basically makes it easier to deliver the hit. My lower body is also providing a lot more stability for the stroke.

gazgolf1
12th March 2010, 04:29 PM
Good stuff mate, I'd like to see your new swing on the course soon. Jeez that sounded a bit ghey.:oops:

martinez
13th March 2010, 12:12 AM
The biggest change has been in his ball-flight. :)

I'll try to get some pics up here soon to illustrate the changes in Iain's swing. I'm flat out trying to get all my sh...tuff together for my trip OS at the end of this month.

Bushka
17th March 2010, 08:47 AM
Is there anybody down there teaching the Kel Nagle swing. Now that is a swing to copy...Hogan's is too complex and is only for those who have an extremely strong left side and can achieve a straight right arm in a high follow through position. Nagle had a swing that was as close to perfect as one would wish for.

I actually get the high right arm thing with my current super flat chopper swing. I can pretend I meant to do it now. Awesome. Kel Nagle is a member down at Manly. Wonder if he will talk to me.

******EDIT*******

Just watched some youtube of Kel Nagle Swinging a driver. What in the blue blazes is with that crazy follow through.

Amazing.

gazgolf1
17th March 2010, 08:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZkhPt8C5wc&feature=sub

Looking good Iain, your clubface still looks way shut at the top but obviously you are getting it back to square at impact.

Jarro
19th March 2010, 01:20 PM
I'm flat out trying to get all my sh...tuff together for my trip OS at the end of this month.

How long is the trip for Martin ?

martinez
21st March 2010, 05:46 PM
How long is the trip for Martin ?
It was meant to be about 5 weeks....but now it's looking like at least 6 months. I have an offer to teach at a facility between Chicago and Milwaukee......I have to take this opportunity.

Looking good Iain, your clubface still looks way shut at the top but obviously you are getting it back to square at impact.
It's getting better each time......we don't want to change the face issue overnight, but over the next few months, with what we have worked on and Iain will be working on, I expect it will gradually get close to a square position at the top.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8Hp9VAmSaI

gazgolf1
20th April 2010, 05:20 PM
I heard a whisper that martinez gave one S Elkington a lesson on his current trip to the US.:smt023

Jarro
13th July 2010, 01:38 PM
I heard a whisper that martinez gave one S Elkington a lesson on his current trip to the US.:smt023

Yessir.

Some interesting stuff going on here .............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g014tRudVI

gazgolf1
13th July 2010, 02:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/martinez19696

But wait.

3oneday
13th July 2010, 02:34 PM
Elks driver looked black, does he play Titleist ?

Yossarian
13th July 2010, 02:42 PM
How far out is that front foot splayed?

sms316
13th July 2010, 03:16 PM
Elks driver looked black, does he play Titleist ?

Think he is a Ping man.

markTHEblake
14th July 2010, 05:47 PM
I heard a whisper that martinez gave one S Elkington a lesson on his current trip to the US.:smt023

He is still there, the blokes at his range here said just last week "he is in the states coaching elkington"

Jarro
14th July 2010, 06:38 PM
He is still there, the blokes at his range here said just last week "he is in the states coaching elkington"

Thanks scoop :roll:

markTHEblake
14th July 2010, 07:17 PM
i thought that there is a big difference between 'coaching' and 'one lesson'

gazgolf1
7th August 2010, 09:57 AM
I see Elk is in contention this weekend, lets hope he can make some birdies over the next coupla days.

Yossarian
8th August 2010, 05:30 PM
What does DOCF stand for?

LarryLong
8th August 2010, 05:56 PM
Yessir.

Some interesting stuff going on here .............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g014tRudVI

Watched the first minute of this. Martinez must be getting bucket-loads of money to be able to resist the urge to say "Just hit the freakin' ball, rain man!" :)

Elk has really skinny legs, doesn't he?

Iain
8th August 2010, 06:50 PM
What does DOCF stand for?

Diametrically Opposed Circular Force.

Yossarian
8th August 2010, 07:02 PM
Cheers Iain. Just been going through a lot of his vids. I sort of stumbled onto his way of swinging on the range a few months ago but couldn't quite get it to gel.

Yossarian
8th August 2010, 09:45 PM
This stuff is really interesting! Does he want to come to perth :) Kills the ball!

Jarro
9th August 2010, 03:53 PM
If he's giving lessons to people like Elkington in the USA, then i highly doubt he'll be back here anytime soon.

Checkout his YouTube channel though. Lots of cool vids there explaining his philosophies and methodology.

Iain
9th August 2010, 04:13 PM
I'm pretty sure he'll be back over Xmas. But, like Jarro said, I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed over there basically permanently. He's still got family over here, so I expect he'll make regular trips back.

It's a shame, he's a great teacher, I'm just trying to get back into his methods.

Jarro
9th August 2010, 04:15 PM
How are you managing now that he's not here Iain ?

Have you learned enough from him in lessons past to carry on on your own ?

Iain
9th August 2010, 04:17 PM
I haven't really played/hit balls since Nudgee plate, so just trying to get back into it again. I've emailed him, he knows my swing pretty well, so he should be able to steer me from afar. Plus, I'll get out and video my swing and send it to him.

Jarro
9th August 2010, 04:19 PM
I thought as much.

It really is a simple swing he teaches. Not a lot to go wrong with it once you ingraine the muscle-memory.

I knew we should've had that lesson with him before he left :(

Iain
9th August 2010, 04:21 PM
I'll try and tee something up for when he comes back. Hopefully he will.... :?

Jarro
9th August 2010, 04:22 PM
That'd be cool.

I'd be keen :)

markTHEblake
9th August 2010, 04:46 PM
I've emailed him, he knows my swing pretty well

Let Marty know that Ozgolf works with the internet in the USA! It would be good if he could post an update here and let us know what he is up too, particularily with that weird thing Elk is doing!

Iain
9th August 2010, 05:06 PM
Let Marty know that Ozgolf works with the internet in the USA! It would be good if he could post an update here and let us know what he is up too, particularily with that weird thing Elk is doing!

Honestly, I get the impression that he's pretty busy over there, I think he's got a few things on the go. Although I'll let him know.

Jono
10th August 2010, 11:11 AM
Steve Elkington sounds a lot like Ben Doyle when he goes on about impact and address.

His swing doesn't look anything like Martin or any of his students.

Iain
10th August 2010, 01:15 PM
His swing doesn't look anything like Martin or any of his students.

Should it? Marty's not a method teacher.

Jono
10th August 2010, 01:37 PM
Should it? Marty's not a method teacher.

His other students' swings look quite similar.

On the video clip, it looks like Elk is trying to teach Martin rather than other way round.

ddasey
15th August 2010, 07:11 AM
Well Martin must be doing something right.

Elk up into 8th at the PGA.

Dcanto
15th August 2010, 07:13 AM
Well Martin must be doing something wright.

Elk up into 8th at the PGA.

Maybe Tiger should give Martin a call.

KristianJ
16th August 2010, 10:21 PM
Maybe Tiger should give Martin a call.

I just spotted this on WRX:

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/401286-tiger-going-to-stack-tilt/page__view__findpost__p__2639309

razaar
17th August 2010, 07:02 AM
His other students' swings look quite similar.

On the video clip, it looks like Elk is trying to teach Martin rather than other way round.
That would be my take. It was reported that his renewed interest and good form is credited to work he has been doing on his putting with Geoff Mangrum. Elk's ball striking has never been an issue. It is all about putting at this level, you only have to look at Tiger, Mickelson and Duvall to see that.

Iain
17th August 2010, 07:42 AM
His other students' swings look quite similar.

On the video clip, it looks like Elk is trying to teach Martin rather than other way round.

I think it's probably more collaborative with Elk, as he likes to play around with different things, but the principles are definitely Marty's.

Plus, Marty's already stated that he's learnt an awful lot working with Elk. That it's only going to help how he conveys his teaching.

Bushka
20th August 2010, 08:54 AM
Bloody hell. How about the 300 swing experts on WRX?

virge666
1st September 2010, 07:19 PM
Bloody hell. How about the 300 swing experts on WRX?

And they just love S&T . . . WTF.

I liked this quote...

why can't they just be "good golf swing" characteristics that TW is applying.. why must everything be labelled S&T?


All he is doing is finding a way to keep the club in front a very, very powerful and fast body. It ain't rocket surgery, Kostis, Faldo, Nicklaus are all saying the same thing 5 times an hour. It is just clever golf. Next up they will be claiming that wearing a glove is a characteristic of S&T !

Is anyone left on tour claiming to be an S&T player ?

razaar
2nd September 2010, 11:11 AM
Virge
Would you consider Colin Mongomery's swing to be a slightly longer version of the stack and tilt?

Similarities in Monty's swing to S & T.

Weight forward on left side at address.
Shoulders tilt and right leg straightens in backswing with weight still on left side.
Turns the left hip in an upwards direction and left shoulder upwards during transition.
Finishes in a reverse C position facing the target.

martinez
15th December 2010, 08:12 AM
I'm back on the Gold Coast till early February. Was great working with Elk, still am and will be next year also. But in the meantime, because I'm only going to be here for a short time I am going to organise some one day clinics at a reduced rate for groups of 4 or more. More will reduce the rate further. Those that said Elk was teaching me would be partially correct, I taught him my swing move and he increased his 'average' distance by twelve yards from mid way through the season, while gaining slightly in accuracy as well......but anyone who spent 6 months with someone of his caliber and didn't try to learn from him also would be pretty bloody stupid imo. :) The blend of my swing ideas and his application has been a lot of fun to teach.

I'm based at the range at Helensvale outside Gold Coast country club.
Cheers
Martin

Jarro
15th December 2010, 08:15 AM
Thanks for the update Martin 8)

idgolfguy
15th December 2010, 08:37 AM
Wish I was in Queensland for this.

gazgolf1
15th December 2010, 01:08 PM
I'm in for this, I think I just found my Xmas present.

Jarro
15th December 2010, 01:15 PM
I'm in for this, I think I just found my Xmas present.

Me too :mrgreen:

timah!
15th December 2010, 01:35 PM
I'm in for this, I think I just found my Xmas present.

Me three!

AndyP
15th December 2010, 03:17 PM
Swing HOs!

martinez
17th December 2010, 07:23 AM
Some time in the new year sound good?

Jarro
17th December 2010, 07:58 AM
Mid-late January sounds great to me 8)

moree golfer
17th December 2010, 09:07 AM
Oh yeah, I might be able to tie in a trip to wife's relatives on the GC with this. I for one am keen for mid/late January (just not mid week).

martinez
17th December 2010, 11:49 AM
Whenever we can get a group together we will do it. Weekend would obviously be easier. :)

gazgolf1
17th December 2010, 12:46 PM
Count me in for late Jan, Saturday or Sunday works for me.

Eag's
17th December 2010, 03:14 PM
I would be keen for this as well.

Daves
17th December 2010, 03:30 PM
I would be keen for this as well.

x 2.

Jarro
17th December 2010, 05:00 PM
We should make a list :smt045

ddasey
17th December 2010, 05:08 PM
Could be very keen (if I'm not working).

henno
17th December 2010, 05:20 PM
Me too!

Jarro
17th December 2010, 07:10 PM
Sounds like we have enough interest for a full blown clinic Martin :)

Eag's
17th December 2010, 07:30 PM
Martinez Clinic interest :)
1. Gaz
2. jarro
3. timah
4. moree golfer
5. Eag's
6. Daves
7. ddasey
8. henno

timah!
17th December 2010, 07:56 PM
I'll most likely take up individual lessons, so depending on cost i'm a pencil.


I supergoaled Tapatalk.

BroKar
17th December 2010, 08:19 PM
Would love to be a part of the cliniic also and would consider 30 minutes one on one after the clinic.

martinez
18th December 2010, 06:00 PM
You'll get some one on one time during the clinic.

Just to let you know the general one day clinic schedule.
8-8.30 I give a little speech about the overall idea behind the motion I preach.
8.30-10 Individual work on overall motion with instruction.
10-11 some drills.....which depends on the individuals needs. A group explanation of each drill.
12-2 Short game, incorporating similar concepts into shorter swings
2-3 Aiming. Taking it to the course.
3-4 Individual instruction
4-stumps Putting and Q+A

Great to see so much interest, cheers guys. :)

Yossarian
18th December 2010, 08:33 PM
Come to WA.

Jarro
18th December 2010, 08:56 PM
Does he have to wear ghey pants if he goes to WA ?

Tapatalking on the Galaxy

gazgolf1
19th December 2010, 07:44 AM
Martin's latest clip.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOmxmYeRBaQ&feature=sub

perci
20th December 2010, 05:15 AM
Martinez Clinic interest
1. Gaz
2. jarro
3. timah
4. moree golfer
5. Eag's
6. Daves
7. ddasey
8. henno
9.perci

Jarro
20th December 2010, 06:39 AM
Martinez Clinic interest
1. Gaz
2. jarro
3. timah
4. moree golfer
5. Eag's
6. Daves
7. ddasey
8. henno
9.perci

What a great grouping !!

Should be fun :)

martinez
20th December 2010, 07:32 AM
That's a good size group.....8. Tim wants private lessons I believe.

I would love to go to Perth if there was enough interest. I have gone to the UK ffs ;) It all depends if it's viable.

BroKar
20th December 2010, 07:42 AM
Martinez Clinic interest
1. Gaz
2. jarro
3. timah
4. moree golfer
5. Eag's
6. Daves
7. ddasey
8. henno
9.perci
10. BroKar

You missed one

martinez
25th December 2010, 06:47 AM
Change of plans.....bring your fishing poles....I'll supply the boat, same location. Helensvale Golf Range.

Merry Christmas OzGolfers.

gazgolf1
25th December 2010, 07:16 AM
Merry Christmas Martin.

Jarro
26th December 2010, 03:33 PM
Yeah Merry Christmas Martin, looking forward to the clinic 8)

martinez
30th December 2010, 05:04 AM
Likewise Jarro, we should start firming up a date that suits everyone on that list.

Jarro
30th December 2010, 07:26 AM
Likewise Jarro, we should start firming up a date that suits everyone on that list.

Weekend 'eh :-k

Saturday or Sunday suit most here ??

How about the weekend of 22/23 Jan ?

gazgolf1
30th December 2010, 04:47 PM
Weekend 'eh :-k

Saturday or Sunday suit most here ??

How about the weekend of 22/23 Jan ?

Works for me.

Daves
30th December 2010, 06:03 PM
Works for me.

x 2

Eag's
30th December 2010, 06:22 PM
No good for me, but I doubt my knee will be right by then anyway.

BroKar
30th December 2010, 09:40 PM
all good for me

markTHEblake
31st December 2010, 04:13 PM
I'll come along if you can tell me why you complain to hotel room service that your hamburger is cold

martinez
1st January 2011, 07:03 AM
I'll come along if you can tell me why you complain to hotel room service that your hamburger is cold
Haha. This story is probably at the core of why I ended up a teacher and not a player. I had arrived back at my hotel room at about 3am....ordered a burger from room service.
I passed out once it arrived, then when I woke up, still a little less than sober a few hours later it was cold. I obviously had to complain about the hotels shitty service.

You either heard that from Rabbits Warren or you heard it from someone he told the story to. :)

gazgolf1
1st January 2011, 07:12 AM
Martin I like Diz's latest vid that he posted on GolfWRX.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cfeWrHxTgw

Jarro
1st January 2011, 07:18 AM
That's a nice looking move he's putting on the ball right there :)

I still can't get my head around those hands at the start of the takeaway though :-s

markTHEblake
1st January 2011, 10:32 AM
Marty, I dont think complain was the right word though, more like a obstinate refusal to accept any culpability for the cold burger at all. You are lucky it was Rabs though, anyone else would have eaten it themselves then told you that you ate it.
Martin I like Diz's latest vid that he posted on GolfWRX.

the first thing i noticed is that the clubhead (and therefore the hands) is the last thing to move on the takeaway. Jarro, is that what you mean?

Jarro
1st January 2011, 10:39 AM
Marty, I dont think complain was the right word though, more like a obstinate refusal to accept any culpability for the cold burger at all. You are lucky it was Rabs though, anyone else would have eaten it themselves then told you that you ate it.

the first thing i noticed is that the clubhead (and therefore the hands) is the last thing to move on the takeaway. Jarro, is that what you mean?

Yep. That and the fact that the clubhead never gets behind his body ... it always stays outside the line.

perci
1st January 2011, 02:26 PM
Can't make it that weekend sorry

Martinez Clinic interest
1. Gaz
2. jarro
3. timah
4. moree golfer
5. Eag's
6. Daves
7. ddasey
8. henno
9. BroKar
10.

Eag's
1st January 2011, 06:13 PM
+1 Can't make it that weekend sorry

Martinez Clinic interest
1. Gaz
2. jarro
3. timah
4. moree golfer
5.
6. Daves
7. ddasey
8. henno
9. BroKar
10.

markTHEblake
1st January 2011, 07:22 PM
I'll think about coming, but that range freaks me out, I just cant hit the ball there. I think its got hidden pagan symbols in its design or something.

markTHEblake
2nd January 2011, 08:05 PM
Marty, this is the video i was asking you about today.
http://www.youtube.com/user/martinez19696#p/a/u/2/5g014tRudVI

martinez
3rd January 2011, 04:49 AM
Mark, that was the second time we had worked together. The half moon/belly roll is what he used as imagery for the changes we made to his swing. If you look at the John Deere video, you will see an upgrade of that, to where he got it more in there. Then the "Steve Elkington Range Session" vid is at Reno the week after that. Then after a week off in Houston, he went on to Turning stone and the PGA where he for the first time all Summer wasn't making any significant changes.

As we discussed yesterday, I'm a method teacher, but it's not about positions, it's a motion from set up to follow through (both arms straight for the first time) that's going to look different in everybody. You can learn that motion in 5 minutes, but there is MANY ways to enhance it from that first understanding. So this Champions video was just the beginning for Elk. He got better every week because he understood the basic motion which he demonstrates in this video, so was able to add 'more'...in his words "I'm going the other way".

Jarro
6th January 2011, 01:57 PM
So, we any closer to setting a date for this thing or what ?

dougkpga
6th January 2011, 07:13 PM
just spoke to martin - i'm in for the clinic - looks like 22nd Jan at Helensvale the GCCC range.

I get it - and only seen the clinic and the work with elk.

Doug

martinez
7th January 2011, 06:02 AM
22nd it is. If anyone is interested in a clinic but can't make that date, maybe we can do a second one. But for now, it would be good to confirm the numbers for the 22nd.

gazgolf1
7th January 2011, 07:08 PM
22nd it is. If anyone is interested in a clinic but can't make that date, maybe we can do a second one. But for now, it would be good to confirm the numbers for the 22nd.

Can we get an idea on the price or should I do that via PM ?

martinez
7th January 2011, 07:30 PM
Can we get an idea on the price or should I do that via PM ?
I was planning to charge $150 per head, plus balls. That's assuming the sort of numbers that have expressed an interest.

gazgolf1
7th January 2011, 08:24 PM
ok I'm in for the 22nd.

1. Gaz

Daves
7th January 2011, 09:24 PM
ok I'm in for the 22nd.

1. Gaz

1. Gaz
2. Daves

Jarro
8th January 2011, 06:52 AM
1. Gaz
2. Daves
3. jarro

dougkpga
9th January 2011, 03:24 PM
1. Gaz
2. Daves
3. jarro
4. dougk
5. mark blake

if you dont come you'll regret it...

doug

Jarro
13th January 2011, 01:13 PM
1. Gaz
2. Daves
3.
4. dougk
5. mark blake

Sorry all but i can't make this now :(

martinez
13th January 2011, 09:07 PM
Jarro, I think there's more important things than Golf at a time like this.....

markTHEblake
15th January 2011, 01:05 AM
I had a hit at the range tonight applying the lessons from Martinez, sort of :-) On Sunday Doug explained what Martinez is teaching and demonstrated with a kids plastic golf club on his verandah. Then I practiced in front of the mirror all week, and I like the position that I am getting to at the top, and tonight was the litmus test - as usual first shot was a shank, Thats usually a good sign for me.

No doubt I was doing it not entirely correct but of all the things Doug has taught me this was by far the easiest to understand and then apply. I wont get into the details here (because i always explain it wrong anyway) but basically the only things i usually work on is getting the backswing correct, I beleive if you get that right then the rest looks after itself, and you cant really control that. Anything you have to consciously try is usually a forced correction.

The outcome was quite interesting, I could not stop swinging down too fast with my arms first, no matter how hard i tried to make an 'easy' swing. Most shots also went right, very high and nothing left at all, and sometimes with enough power as i like. It still felt better though, so I knew I am on the right track.

then i just worked on trying to do that little bump left with the hips before the downswing commences that Hogan does, and that made everything fall into place, including slowing down the downswing to a speed that I was more comfortable with. My shots straightened up, good balance on the follow through, no strain on the back, and this is hard to explain - I feel at impact that enough clubhead speed and power was created, but it wasn't me doing it, it is the club and I am just hanging on to the end.

Look forward to ironing the wrinkles out next weekend.

martinez
15th January 2011, 07:38 PM
Looking forward to it too. It does sound like you got on the right track, it will be interesting for me, to see how much an experienced pro like Doug was able to glean from the videos I have put out.

Iain
16th January 2011, 05:26 PM
1. Gaz
2. Daves
3. Iain
4. dougk
5. mark blake

I need to catch up with Marty.

markTHEblake
16th January 2011, 05:41 PM
It does sound like you got on the right track

Played yesterday and the outcome was quite good, not yet confident but only hit one shot right, and a few left. 6 inches of wet rough and tee up probably helped that a lot but fairway shots were great.

Again my best shots were the ones like i cant feel the club at all, lets say the complete opposite if you were too swing an axe into a tree, with your entire body applying the force at impact. With golf i feel like I would prefer to do that, but that is probably wrong.

Was talking to Rabbit about this today and he suggests that means I am probably getting something right. (he admits he has forgotten to call you, but he still wants to)

martinez
16th January 2011, 11:05 PM
1. Gaz
2. Daves
3. Iain
4. dougk
5. mark blake

I need to catch up with Marty.

Will be good Iain, would love a couple more guys/gals to join up, but I do understand now may not be appropriate.

@Mark
Would love to catch up with Rabs, I shouldn't wait for him to call me :P

dougkpga
19th January 2011, 09:42 AM
I have another guy who will be coming Mike Caladine.

Sorry about pre empting the clinic martin, but I'm pretty excited.

I know I will still have a lot to get out of it.

gazgolf1
19th January 2011, 10:36 AM
C'mon Ryan you know you want to. ;)

martinez
19th January 2011, 08:19 PM
It's going to be a great day. Looking forward to it.

markTHEblake
19th January 2011, 11:23 PM
I know it will be a long day, but if anyone is interested we could nick over to Helensvale GC for a quick nine and beer. Its only a couple mins drive away, and you will all be keen to try out the new swing on a golf course and we would have it to ourselves, and no better place to test your skills than our mighty 1st hole.

There is also the GC Country Club walking distance from the range, that is typically crowded though, and would cost more.


Sorry about pre empting the clinic martin, but I'm pretty excited.

Now thats saying something, it takes a lot to get Doug excited (apart from Essendon kicking a goal)

Iain
20th January 2011, 07:04 AM
What time will it start?

Daves
20th January 2011, 09:44 PM
I know it will be a long day, but if anyone is interested we could nick over to Helensvale GC for a quick nine and beer. Its only a couple mins drive away, and you will all be keen to try out the new swing on a golf course and we would have it to ourselves, and no better place to test your skills than our mighty 1st hole.

There is also the GC Country Club walking distance from the range, that is typically crowded though, and would cost more.



Now thats saying something, it takes a lot to get Doug excited (apart from Essendon kicking a goal)

Sounds like a plan if we finish early enough.


What time will it start?

I think Martin was suggesting 8.00am start somewhere back in the thread. Hopefully he will update tonight/tomorrow.

markTHEblake
20th January 2011, 10:52 PM
I think Martin was suggesting 8.00am start somewhere back in the thread.

Indeed he did. I'll get there are 8am unless otherwise advised. Need to catch up on some gossip with some local punters there anyway.

Marty, will you be videoing us?


You'll get some one on one time during the clinic.

Just to let you know the general one day clinic schedule.
8-8.30 I give a little speech about the overall idea behind the motion I preach.
8.30-10 Individual work on overall motion with instruction.
10-11 some drills.....which depends on the individuals needs. A group explanation of each drill.
12-2 Short game, incorporating similar concepts into shorter swings
2-3 Aiming. Taking it to the course.
3-4 Individual instruction
4-stumps Putting and Q+A

Iain
21st January 2011, 06:48 PM
I think Martin was suggesting 8.00am start somewhere back in the thread. Hopefully he will update tonight/tomorrow.

9:00 start. Just heard from Marty. He'll be there from 8, but won't officially start until 9.

Iain
21st January 2011, 06:51 PM
Marty, will you be videoing us?

Chances are good. He's used a video camera in every lesson I've had from him.

martinez
21st January 2011, 09:38 PM
I will be there at 8. I will use video...but not with huge amounts of precision....that's not my go. However, I would encourage anyone that wants to, to bring their own camera if they want to film stuff that they can watch back later. Tends to help with retention. Only thing I ask is that you make any footage you shoot available to me, so that I can send it to my clients OS if needed.

Should be a good day.:)

martinez
22nd January 2011, 07:40 PM
Really enjoyed the day guys....Cheers!

Daves
22nd January 2011, 08:01 PM
Really enjoyed the day guys....Cheers!

Thanks for the day Martin. It was extremely enlightening, very enjoyable, and great value for money. I had a ball, hopefully learnt a lot that I will retain, and will give me heaps to work on.

martinez
22nd January 2011, 09:36 PM
Glad you enjoyed the day Dave, and that you have plenty of things that inspire you to keep improving with your golf. I was really impressed with the way you grasped the concepts I put to you today.
Cheers
Martin

martinez
22nd January 2011, 10:27 PM
Double post..

gazgolf1
23rd January 2011, 07:31 AM
Martin thanks for the day, I learnt a lot and I can't wait to work on it over the next few weeks. Also thanks for your paitience with us slappers. Good luck with your star pupil this year. :)

markTHEblake
23rd January 2011, 04:14 PM
Everything that i got out of it was good, i really like the feeling at address and impact that i am getting out of this. Though I missed a bit cos I cant pay attention to anything for more than about 15 seconds, but i always knew that would happen. I am very happy that my part time coach Doug was there, and he lapped it all up and soaked it in. He can pass it all on to me again later in short chunks, as well as by keeping an eye on the videos.

Iain
23rd January 2011, 08:11 PM
Thanks for the day Marty, was awesome value for the info we got.

Daves
24th January 2011, 06:11 PM
I played 18 this afternoon and managed to beat the hcp by a couple of shots. It was a bit of a struggle trying to keep to my old swing mechanics and routine, the odd bit of Saturday's learnings tended to keep creeping in! Hardly mishit a ball all day, direction was my main issue. The interesting part was my putting. I incorporated the pull inside to my stroke and putted as well as I have for quite a while. Felt very confident with the stroke.

timah!
24th January 2011, 06:14 PM
I played 18 this afternoon and managed to beat the hcp by a couple of shots. It was a bit of a struggle trying to keep to my old swing mechanics and routine, the odd bit of Saturday's learnings tended to keep creeping in! Hardly mishit a ball all day, direction was my main issue. The interesting part was my putting. I incorporated the pull inside to my stroke and putted as well as I have for quite a while. Felt very confident with the stroke.

Good to hear Daves. If it was anything like my first lesson, it just makes sense hey?

Daves
24th January 2011, 06:18 PM
Good to hear Daves. If it was anything like my first lesson, it just makes sense hey?

Sure does!

martinez
24th January 2011, 07:10 PM
Thanks for all the feedback guys, I look forward to following your progress with it over the next few weeks on here.

gazgolf1
26th January 2011, 07:34 AM
Not sure if its taboo to be posting content from another forum but this is really good stuff, a great insight, Elk and his mate practicing before the Hope. You can see Elk is really workin on the method.

http://www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/video-vault/viewvideo/1242/sitd-roadshow/qpractice-round-at-la-quinta-cc-part-1q

http://www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/video-vault/viewvideo/1236/sitd-roadshow/qgetting-readyq

http://www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/video-vault/viewvideo/1238/equipment/qspeed-test-part-1q

http://www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/video-vault/viewvideo/1246/equipment/qspeed-test-part-2q-episode-313

Daves
26th January 2011, 08:21 AM
Not sure if its taboo to be posting content from another forum but this is really good stuff, a great insight, Elk and his mate practicing before the Hope. You can see Elk is really workin on the method.

http://www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/video-vault/viewvideo/1242/sitd-roadshow/qpractice-round-at-la-quinta-cc-part-1q

http://www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/video-vault/viewvideo/1236/sitd-roadshow/qgetting-readyq

Good stuff Gaz! You need to be logged in to see the vids though I think.

martinez
26th January 2011, 10:18 PM
Well imo, you guys should set up an ozgolf.net group on there. All it is...is a growing content of Golf entertainment and education as well as a social network. No reason you would lose out by having a small presence on there. There is a growing number of Aussies on there for example that probably haven't heard of this website. If I hadn't met Iain on WRX I would never have known of this site either.

markTHEblake
27th January 2011, 07:23 PM
Marty, I pretty sure you touched on the subject of left wrist supination , I was just looking at p.102 of "Five Lessons - The Modern Fundamentals of Golf". So here I am swinging a golf club around in the loungeroom (the cook is not home, obviously), and looking at how this might happen.

I'm struggling here. :-) For the life of me I can only see that causing the clubface to be seriously hooded at impact. Or when I tried to adjust the plane of the clubhead the almighty crack in my left wrist at it 'supinated' reminded me i have never done that before! (Please dont mention the flip word.... I know)

Any videos you have that touch on this ?

martinez
28th January 2011, 06:54 AM
I don't have any videos that touch on this Mark.....well not on 'supinating' the left wrist. You'll note in "The good book" Hogan says "The left wrist begins to supinate"....he does not say "You begin to supinate the left wrist" an important distinction as he was very literal.

My advice on that would be to try some slow motion swings...with the ever present stick on the plane line. Come into the impact zone with the face aiming way right as I demonstrated with the short game session. Now, without any effort to square the face allow the sole of the club to roll down toward the ground all the while maintaining the face aiming to the right...and the clubhead trailing the hands.

What happens?

virge666
28th January 2011, 07:37 AM
"The good book" Hogan says "The left wrist begins to supinate"....he does not say "You begin to supinate the left wrist" an important distinction as he was very literal.


How good is that !!!

From someone who has been reading this thread - it is brilliant to read so many people get some direction in their golf from communication and events brought about by this forum.

markTHEblake
28th January 2011, 11:13 PM
I don't have any videos that touch on this Mark.....
I found one by going to your Youtube page on my phone at lunchtime, under the related videos section of "clinic part 1", seems to show quite simply how to discover the feel of doing so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8nXn34yUU


he does not say "You begin to supinate the left wrist"am with you there, I am a Disciple of the Doug, who has always preached that any deliberate action in the downswing must be a fault correction. I usually work (try) only on my backswing, the rest should be automatic.



My advice on that would be to try some slow motion swings...with the ever present stick on the plane line. Come into the impact zone with the face aiming way right as I demonstrated with the short game session.That aspect of the short game lesson was exactly what I was thinking already. Then i was also watching another video of yours on my phone, where you replayed the same swing at slower speeds, down to 1/20. I cant find it now, but the view of the backswing from behind really highlighted to me what i would prefer to do, - like the back of the riht hand slides flat along the swing plane and not at right angles like i do (shut). It seems to be much easier for the supination to happen to me, if the left wrist is flat or cupped at the top, rather than shut. (though logically it can be done from shut as well)

What happens?left wrist cracking again! Got it. Will practice some tomorrow.....

dougkpga
29th January 2011, 01:00 AM
I would just like to say that while I felt I was close to teaching the right stuff to people not through lack of trying, Marty's stuff is light years of where I am as a teacher and a player. It was a privilege to attend the day with him. Lap it up now because he might not be around for us ordinary folk in Australia which has killed off many a promising coach if they don't go overseas.

martinez
29th January 2011, 07:23 AM
Sounds good Mark.

Thanks for those kind words Doug.

markTHEblake
29th January 2011, 07:58 AM
DK, you better sign on as an apprentice before he becomes too exclusive!

gazgolf1
29th January 2011, 08:28 AM
Just posted part 2 of "Speed Test" in post 214.

markTHEblake
29th January 2011, 03:47 PM
Sounds good Mark

Worked.

In my usual warmup before the round, I simply applied the technique in the short game lesson to full shots, the difference was significant. Was taking good wide divots, and most of the time a nice draw, let a few squirt out to the right with a cut.

On the course was pretty good, and only let two go right which surprised me, and they were only short irons. Hit mostly 3W all day because of the wind, and got significant distance out of it, even from mishits. Hit a couple of drivers and nailed them, can really feel like i have flattened more of the ball on the clubface, if that make sense.

The only regret is, last saturday you didnt teach us how to putt- i had a shocker.

I'll have to get back to the range though and practice this more seriously, as i was only focussing on the one thing, I could feel other parts i want to work on slipping away.

markTHEblake
30th January 2011, 04:26 PM
Not sure if its taboo to be posting content from another forum but this is really good stuff, a great insight, Elk and his mate practicing before the Hope. You can see Elk is really workin on the method.

a few things i noticed

- Elk cant see the pin or ball finish.
- You got to bribe cart shed workers to get a free cart.
- when hitting driver was his back foot turned in (or did the camera angle deceive me)
- 270m carry is impressive for a 49yo
- my choice of clubmaker is vindicated; Gary Tozer.


now whats the deal with the pre-shot routing of the casual backswing, rest club on shoulder, turn, then step into the stance with both feet. I assume he is 'setting' something, at first i thought hips but perhaps not.

Jarro
30th January 2011, 04:30 PM
you think too much Blakey

Iain
30th January 2011, 04:57 PM
a few things i noticed
- when hitting driver was his back foot turned in (or did the camera angle deceive me)
Yes, I believe he does turn his right foot in, but wait for Marty to confirm.


now whats the deal with the pre-shot routing of the casual backswing, rest club on shoulder, turn, then step into the stance with both feet. I assume he is 'setting' something, at first i thought hips but perhaps not.
I think he's creating the feel he wants.

markTHEblake
30th January 2011, 05:14 PM
you think too much Blakey
Good to see that you are taking a notice of this thread, you were the first person that i thought of who would benefit the most from this teaching method (once i started to understand it), cos you are a short stocky fella with great hand/eye coordination. If I can stop slapping the ball, you most certainly can as well.

martinez
30th January 2011, 08:17 PM
Mark...you remember the two fisted drill we did? That's what Elk is doing pre-shot...resting the club on his shoulder, then drops it down and just bends the left wrist and he has his set up.

I am leaving for the US on the 12th of Feb, I am going to the LA open then the Honda classic in Fl, and in between to Texas. I would love to do another one day clinic before I go, if there is enough interest. I will be gone for a month.

gazgolf1
30th January 2011, 09:48 PM
I am leaving for the US on the 12th of Feb, I am going to the LA open then the Honda classic in Fl, and in between to Texas. I would love to do another one day clinic before I go, if there is enough interest. I will be gone for a month.

C'mon boys, you won't regret it.

Daves
30th January 2011, 09:50 PM
C'mon boys, you won't regret it.

I would be keen again.

Jarro
30th January 2011, 10:01 PM
All depends on the day you wanna do it.

My work roster isn't really friendly for a while now :(

martinez
31st January 2011, 08:43 PM
I've got a pretty clean slate between now and the 12th, so any day would work at this point.

markTHEblake
1st February 2011, 11:38 PM
Found this gem, i think I can get a lot out of this.
But i don't recommend using it against the expensive leather couch when the cook is around.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAUU5OXIfwk

Daves
2nd February 2011, 07:00 AM
Found this gem, i think I can get a lot out of this.
But i don't recommend using it against the expensive leather couch when the cook is around.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAUU5OXIfwk

Yep, great vid.

I finally got to the range yesterday and took a shaft to put into the ground in front. Managed to hit it dead centre on about the 4th swing.:oops: Lucky it was only an old bent steel shaft;)

martinez
2nd February 2011, 10:33 PM
Haha, good stuff Dave. I have broken a few....I will be picking up a few alignment sticks when I go to the States.

s12raider
7th February 2011, 07:50 PM
Just read the entire thread. I'm off to Fiji 12th Feb and currently in NZ..... but can fly to Brisbane from Sydney on the 11th....if you'd propose holding another clinic that day of course....

Virge - thoughts? Or am I just way too early for any thing like this?

Stu

Daves
10th February 2011, 03:00 PM
I've got a pretty clean slate between now and the 12th, so any day would work at this point.

Looks we aren't going to get this off the ground this time. Look forward to catching up with you Martin when you get back.

MegaWatty
10th February 2011, 03:13 PM
Dave,

Can you point me to the vids you mentioned this morning about the front foot please?

Daves
10th February 2011, 03:37 PM
Dave,

Can you point me to the vids you mentioned this morning about the front foot please?

Watch the full vid (and the next 4 parts), but in particular see from about 8mins in when he talks about the lower body facing the target, and being prewound.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ykoOBNqPg&feature=related

timah!
10th February 2011, 03:42 PM
Martin stole AndyP's pants!

markTHEblake
11th February 2011, 10:50 PM
Marty, I was thinking about the instruction you gave on alignment, and as I already am familiar with the parallax error, I began to wonder if my putting is screwed up for that reason. I got an idea from this piece of equipment which you might find handy for your demonstration http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_MLAT and on the putting green lined up a putt, and then kicked the ball out of the way and placed a long tee square up to the face. Yep was aiming 2 inches left on a 2m putt.

Seems the hardest thing to do is to train your mind to adjust the alignment, so after some experimentation, with my usual bag of old tricks, came up with something that worked.
1. pick a spot 30cm or less in front of the ball to aim at - I do that anyway
2. address the ball and align clubface - aiming line to my mark, and only looking at the putter head and the mark, not the hole at all.
3. now rotate the head without moving the axis to look at the hole, so the eyes are aligned vertically, and putt while still looking at the hole.

So this way the brain has had no opportunity to link the alignment and the hole together. I have putted like this before but i would look at hoe>ball>hole>ball many times, and that defeats the purpose. As soon as i tried it i holed 6 x 3m putts in a row doing this, and that is bloody sensational.

This will probably only work for me a short time, but should be enough to retrain my brain.

gazgolf1
17th February 2011, 06:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/interpaul84#p/u/3/UdfNtLecZIA
http://www.youtube.com/user/interpaul84#p/u/2/eRyHGUVxgfo
http://www.youtube.com/user/interpaul84#p/u/1/DR05Yi9LGUw

Some great footage from Elk and Martin's clinic in LA. You can tell how much Elk believes in Martins method.

Daves
17th February 2011, 06:57 PM
Thanks Gaz, some great reminders there.

razaar
18th February 2011, 11:13 AM
Marty, I was thinking about the instruction you gave on alignment, and as I already am familiar with the parallax error, I began to wonder if my putting is screwed up for that reason. I got an idea from this piece of equipment which you might find handy for your demonstration http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_MLAT and on the putting green lined up a putt, and then kicked the ball out of the way and placed a long tee square up to the face. Yep was aiming 2 inches left on a 2m putt.

Seems the hardest thing to do is to train your mind to adjust the alignment, so after some experimentation, with my usual bag of old tricks, came up with something that worked.
1. pick a spot 30cm or less in front of the ball to aim at - I do that anyway
2. address the ball and align clubface - aiming line to my mark, and only looking at the putter head and the mark, not the hole at all.
3. now rotate the head without moving the axis to look at the hole, so the eyes are aligned vertically, and putt while still looking at the hole.

So this way the brain has had no opportunity to link the alignment and the hole together. I have putted like this before but i would look at hoe>ball>hole>ball many times, and that defeats the purpose. As soon as i tried it i holed 6 x 3m putts in a row doing this, and that is bloody sensational.

This will probably only work for me a short time, but should be enough to retrain my brain.

This works because your hands are moving directly at the target when you are looking at the target. Do exactly the same thing while looking at the ball, only you will be directing your hands to where you perceive the target to be. There are two lines - the ball/target line & the hands/target line. Line up the putter face with the ball target line and move the hands on the hands/target line. You won't read this in putting books because secrets are secrets.

virge666
18th February 2011, 12:04 PM
Marty, I was thinking about the instruction you gave on alignment, and as I already am familiar with the parallax error, I began to wonder if my putting is screwed up for that reason. I got an idea from this piece of equipment which you might find handy for your demonstration http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_MLAT and on the putting green lined up a putt, and then kicked the ball out of the way and placed a long tee square up to the face. Yep was aiming 2 inches left on a 2m putt.

This will probably only work for me a short time, but should be enough to retrain my brain.


Blakey - do you really think alignment is important ?

Personally - i really wouldn't call it a fundemental at all...

markTHEblake
18th February 2011, 08:15 PM
Blakey - do you really think alignment is important ?
Obviously a loaded question, so I shall go with yes, interested to here what you have to say. Obviously some people can aim incorrectly but still put well.



Personally - i really wouldn't call it a fundemental at all...
I dont think I did either but i know i have not felt comfortable putting for some time, getting alignment correct makes me feel much better.

virge666
19th February 2011, 01:32 PM
Obviously a loaded question, so I shall go with yes, interested to here what you have to say. Obviously some people can aim incorrectly but still put well.


Not loaded at all.. If all the good players all had close to the same setup and alignment then I would say "Yeah baby - that is the way." But they don't.

A lot of the better putters setup a little open, (seems to a trend of sorts) - some others setup closed to release the putterhead a bit more. Other Professioanls just butcher the process in the hope of being more consistant.

Personally - and I try to not teach a method for puttting as it is such a personal thing. The putter has to be square to the target point at impact - there should be some forward lean on most putters at impact and the ball shouldn't bounce along the ground off the face.

Apart from that... go nuts. Grip and Alignment just ain't that important for either putting, short game or long game IMHO.

Not saying you shouldn't fix or adjust... I just wouldn't try to improve a swing or stroke by adjusting same.

martinez
2nd March 2011, 12:18 PM
Apart from that... go nuts. Grip and Alignment just ain't that important for either putting, short game or long game IMHO.

Not saying you shouldn't fix or adjust... I just wouldn't try to improve a swing or stroke by adjusting same.

I think how you set up has everything to do with good strokes....short or long game. The key is to know WHY you are setting up that way. GREAT players don't set up JUST to aim. They set up for the entirety of the motion they intend to make.....with the target in mind.