Martinez19696

[idgolfguy]

I am off to read my 5 lessons again... :)

Just a little tid bit for us Hogan fans.

Ben Hogan was NEVER outside the top 10 for every major from 1940-1960. Never once outside the top 10 for 22 years !!!
Now, that is a record and didn't know that. I'm going to get the little book out and read it again.

Have to look for a PDF so that I don't have to carry a hardcopy around - or scan it.

[PeteyD]

Get 2 copies of it.

[martinez]

It is the excessive or zealous belief in all things TGM is what I was referring to by the few that aren't prepared to have a lucid discussion.

I am TGM trained and still see the value in evaluating what other perspectives may offer.
Elk, who as you may know is a GSED of TGM....told me that he is almost glad that he didn't win the '02 open.....which believe me he would love an Open championship....because he may never have gotten out of the 'Machine'. Now, that's not to say that he doesn't think it has any value...but he believes in seeing things from a myriad perspectives....just as you say.

[virge666]

I would never normally do this... but those of you who have not read the absolute tirade of shit that came out of 2 or 3 of the lads at the other forum - it is well worth a read. With the exception of Guru and Brad, the soap boxing is just phenominal.

5 pages of abuse and self-backslapping which resulting in Martin eventually telling them to shove it... then it is all about how rude Martin was and how this forum is about teaching... it is a dead set corker. Even Ziggy, Brokar, ID and a few others got in on the action.

The only problem is that they all made up in the end...

One bloke posted an 8 paragraph TGM translation of the move... I am not sure they get the point. :)

[henno]

It's a train wreck. Brain-dead zealotry of any kind makes me want to bang my head against the wall.

[timah!]

Phuck me!
Are they for real?


I supergoaled Tapatalk.

[markTHEblake]

How was the backpeddle of the century?
'i wouldnt have called you that if i knew you were australian' but then still ridiculed the teaching method.

yet he went to a clinic at long reef and saw his videos. How on earth could someone not tell Marty is Australian. absolutely pathetic.

[BroKar]

obviously had not even watched a single clip of Martin, pretty obvious australian voicE.

[henno]

Yesterday: "I know everything there is to know about you; I've watched all of your videos and read all of your stuff... and therefore I can difinitively say you're shit!!!"
Today: "Oh, I didn't know you were Australian. You're awesome."

http://i.imgur.com/9lUBF.jpg

[Yossarian]

Does being an Aussie mean that you can teach golf or are just more likely to engage in some sort of legal action?

[Hux]

Martin

Had a lesson from Gary Calder at Indro last year and found him to be a great communicator and it worked for me. After watching your vid I can actually see a lot of what Gaz was having me do to stop me going over the top in it. Not so much teh half moon but the setting the ball 18" back in the swing then picking it up into position and then just releasing it back through.

An extremely effective move and amazing how as per the vid a couple of pages back you can get the club back in position at impact with so much power.
No idea about TGM or anything else but what I have watched of yours is pretty easy for me to digest.

[idgolfguy]

..Even Ziggy, Brokar, ID and a few others got in on the action.

The only problem is that they all made up in the end...

I didn't know I had posted in that thread.

Damn shame about the making up... I was looking forward to some Internet cage fighting between Martin and sundry. Is there going o be make-up sex now?

[markTHEblake]

Best students I have had as far as picking it up super quick is Baseballers. Both hitters and pitchers see parallels.

Remember my yank mate Grant I told you about - he has an incredible knowledge about all things golf. He basically affirms what you are saying there almost to a T. We definitely got to get you two to meet up one day.

Well I was describing your move to him, and he said thats just like baseball pitching, and he added that in USA, because all the kids play baseball, they pick up golf so easily later on because of those early concepts.

Perhaps we are crap at golf because we played cricket instead :-)

[martinez]

I was all set to never post there again....but I think it's turned out better than that...I don't see any winners in the way it was headed before :)

Blakey...believe me when I say I see a lot of cricket batting in it....but it's more of a stretch to explain that than the baseball :)

[martinez]

Wow...that place is poison....real glad my name is on that thread over there...LOL.

[markTHEblake]

I think you have done enough now to frighten the crap out of them, am sure none expected you to pop in there. As you said, they all know where to find you.

[Yossarian]

Wow...that place is poison....real glad my name is on that thread over there...LOL.

I tried to warn you :)

[idgolfguy]

That is why some of us have moved.

[martinez]

Thing is, I'm a fan of TGM.....I just don't think it's the be all and end all...and I certainly don't appreciate some old **** telling me I'm a retard.....when frankly I probably know as much 'machine' as he does and I never cracked the book. I have a guy in my online program that is a long time disciple of Lynn Blake....Elk is a GSED....both of those guys have something missing in their knowledge that I have been able to fill. I don't know everything, but these guys that shut themselves off from something new will never be able to really help all the players they say they want to help.

I have seen all kinds of technology etc...that's meant to be useful to Golfers....imo, most of that is not applicable. The only thing that will make it truly applicable is for both teacher and student understand it 100%. 100% of tour players do not understand that info 100%...they are the best that this game has to offer. So..............

[idgolfguy]

I like TGM and understand it, the book is poorly written for some not used to reading old school tech designs

If it was put into a web format wit inline links and pop up windows for reference, it would be much easier

[PeteyD]

Capalaba Driving Range today? Anyone going?

[timah!]

Capalaba Driving Range today? Anyone going?

Sorry Pete, I'm out today. Need to keep getting doors finished in the house for rello's.
Next week?


I supergoaled Tapatalk.

[PeteyD]

Maybe. Might suit me betterer as well.

[virge666]

Sydney conference . . . WHEN ?

As for the TGM lads... they are of the express opinion that you learn the mechanics and that in turn gives you feel. When you lose your feel - you then go back to your mechanics and re-learn your feel, be it with imitation, dowell drills, sticking shit in the way or whatever.

I have a problem with this and it is the same problem I have with most methods... I can fix myself with a video camera, a mirror and maybe a blonde to help out... but I cannot bring any of this on a golf course, which means to get good I have to practice a LOT !

I like Martin, Edwin, Cowan, Bann and those kind of guys as they give you something I can fix if it all goes to shit. Edwin's schimmy drill is sensational for the body, Martin's twirl is great for the release, Baan is great for controlling ball flight...

Here is the kicker... None of the above are mechanical - they are all "Feels", they are all using a similar motion to replicate mechanics.

TGM have pressure points, hinge actions, power accumulators and path lines... all are similar to the above feels... the only real difference is that they have a language for describing all the other parts of the swing.

But - it is all the same thing... so why can TGM people not get on with anyone else... short of Stack and Tilt advocates, they are the most frustrating group of golfer on the planet.

You just want to slap them.

[martinez]

Virge
I'm going to Sydney Monday...meet with Andy for 3 days.

[virge666]

Virge
I'm going to Sydney Monday...meet with Andy for 3 days.

You poor bastard... do you want me to bring the pain killers and alcohol ?

[virge666]

Marton starting to work out the "MASS" part of your method - and aiming the mass.

Very powerful concept though still not sure how to get to that point... I can do it on the range but it feels very narrow on hte backswing.

[martinez]

We'll chat this week about it.

[virge666]

We'll chat this week about it.

Thanks mate. See you Monday or Tuesday. Andy and I spent an hour on it this evening.

[Daves]

Interesting vids on SITD of the 3D analysis of Elk's swing. The move is definitely there in the mechanics, though the naked eye can't see it. There is a real degree of trust involved in getting there it seems. You have to trust the move and your swing will get the club (club face) back to where it needs to be at impact.

[markTHEblake]

Daves, which was the sensor(or body part) that showed moving towards the target about halfway on the backswing, where Elk said 'yeah, going the other way". I think it was the first or one of the earlier graphs they looked at.

I thought it was pelvis, but then that was mentioned later.

[Daves]

Daves, which was the sensor(or body part) that showed moving towards the target about halfway on the backswing, where Elk said 'yeah, going the other way". I think it was the first or one of the earlier graphs they looked at.

I thought it was pelvis, but then that was mentioned later.

I would have to watch the vid again to be sure, my recollection was there was mention of right elbow and hips/pelvis.

[Daves]

Daves, which was the sensor(or body part) that showed moving towards the target about halfway on the backswing, where Elk said 'yeah, going the other way". I think it was the first or one of the earlier graphs they looked at.

I thought it was pelvis, but then that was mentioned later.


I would have to watch the vid again to be sure, my recollection was there was mention of right elbow and hips/pelvis.

They were referring to the trailing elbow in Vid 5, but I think the bit your are referring to is in Vid 4. I will have a look again later. Seems Elk has big lag in the trailing elbow, that is then very fast through impact. Combined with massive wrist supination outside the normal, seems to be what is creating the power. The bit showing that the wound up wrists/hands are actually in impact position was also enlightening.

[virge666]

They were referring to the trailing elbow in Vid 5, but I think the bit your are referring to is in Vid 4. I will have a look again later. Seems Elk has big lag in the trailing elbow, that is then very fast through impact. Combined with massive wrist supination outside the normal, seems to be what is creating the power. The bit showing that the wound up wrists/hands are actually in impact position was also enlightening.

I learnt a lot more from his swing by looking at his left arm more than his right. And That sit down move he has done those vids on YouTube.

Has anyone seen a vid on horizontalisation as he calls it. I forgot to ask him earlier in the week.

[razaar]

They were referring to the trailing elbow in Vid 5, but I think the bit your are referring to is in Vid 4. I will have a look again later. Seems Elk has big lag in the trailing elbow, that is then very fast through impact. Combined with massive wrist supination outside the normal, seems to be what is creating the power. The bit showing that the wound up wrists/hands are actually in impact position was also enlightening.

The reverse rotation promotes locked wrists at the top of the backswing. The left wrist is flat with the right hand locking the wrist. This is what loads the shaft. If the wrist can be moved around at the top it will give at the change of direction. Power is stored when the shaft loads not when the wrist gives..

[virge666]

The reverse rotation promotes locked wrists at the top of the backswing. The left wrist is flat with the right hand locking the wrist. This is what loads the shaft. If the wrist can be moved around at the top it will give at the change of direction. Power is stored when the shaft loads not when the wrist gives..

That makes a shitload of sense to me !!

Also explains what he was saying about aiming the mass.

Happy days

[razaar]

No. Aiming the mass means setting the muscles at trhe point you want to deliver the clubhead. For an iron shot say a 6-iron, you want to deliver the clubhead to a point 25 mm infront of the golf ball. The set of the arms, hips and legs are aimed at this point. The shoulders are square to the target. For a driver, the aim point is at a point low on the inside of the ball. Happy days now.

[virge666]

No. Aiming the mass means setting the muscles at trhe point you want to deliver the clubhead. For an iron shot say a 6-iron, you want to deliver the clubhead to a point 25 mm infront of the golf ball. The set of the arms, hips and legs are aimed at this point. The shoulders are square to the target. For a driver, the aim point is at a point low on the inside of the ball. Happy days now.

Nope,

That is the TGM aiming point which I think is 6e or 6d in the little yellow book.

Aiming the mass is way cooler than that... It is aiming the hands at the club head. See if you can find one of Martins vids on it.

[idgolfguy]

Understand aiming point but the ' aiming the mass' concept is still a challenge. The main video refers to it but will have to now trawl through the other videos.

[virge666]

Understand aiming point but the ' aiming the mass' concept is still a challenge. The main video refers to it but will have to now trawl through the other videos.

Check your pm

[razaar]

Nope,

That is the TGM aiming point which I think is 6e or 6d in the little yellow book.

Aiming the mass is way cooler than that... It is aiming the hands at the club head. See if you can find one of Martins vids on it.
Haven't got the TGM book and know nothing about TGM. But I have got the Mitchell book which is what buggerlugs is teaching.

[virge666]

Haven't got the TGM book and know nothing about TGM. But I have got the Mitchell book which is what buggerlugs is teaching.

Cool beans . . .

Do me a favour and post me the setup position out of Mitchell's book.

How to get into the setup position and how the body is balanced.

Cheers Ray

[razaar]

I'll do even better I will explain it. It took me some time and lots of thought to work it out and I had the whole book to work with. Mitchell said that he had great difficulty using his swing with the introduction of steel shafts. Which is reasonable because he could feel the wooden shaft loading but couldn't achieve the same feel with steel shafts. This is neither here nor there in the context of his swing concept. I just mentioned it in case you have a similar issue.

The set up at address has the arms, the hips and the legs looking at the aim point. The shoulders are square to the ball target path because it is the shoulders that have the greatest impact on clubhead path. The backswing is all about resistance and keeping the muscle set aimed at the aim point while turning the shoulders. This is impossible to actually achieve but it does give you an idea of the resistance Mitchell felt during his backswing. The arms still turning towards the ball, the right knee & hip trying to stay looking at the ball. The left knee & foot trying to hold. The right elbow trying to look at the ball. There is no possibility of anything getting behind in this swing. Mitchell was still able to achieve a full shoulher turn.

The downswing is a release of all this potential energy from the ground up. Michell states that he relaxed into the downswing and felt like his back was still facing the target at impact. You can draw your own conclusions to what he did to achieve this.

[virge666]

Thanks Ray. Nicely described !!

[Daves]

Virge/Ray,

would be interested in your thoughts on the negative shaft lean set up.

[BroKar]

Virge/Ray,

would be interested in your thoughts on the negative shaft lean set up.

Seeing that clip explain the whole takeaway for me now

[Daves]

Seeing that clip explain the whole takeaway for me now

For those that have not seen it, this is the clip that Brokar is referring to. There are more on the subject on Youtube under atomicgolf1, plus some reviews of the Nunchuk shaft with Gary Tozer;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNzn9nw_DnY

[razaar]

These are Abe Mitchell's words on the takeaway - "There must be no rolling of the wrist and forearm from left to right either in the waggle or at the beginning of the swing. This is vital. On the other hand an effort should be made to shut the club-face by a slight roll from right to left. This applies to both wrists. Let us make the action clearer. Suppose you are sweeping grass by left to right sweeps with a broom held like a golf club, with the right hand below the left. You would press down and slightly roll the wrists from right to left as you made the sweeps fromleft to right. That is precisely the initial wrist action for the golf swing. It tends to keep the left elbow in, it prevents the right hand from lifting, and it gets the right foot working from the very beginning. At the top of the swing the back of the left hand would face a spectator at the tee box and not the players head or the hole. When the hands have come to the top, the wrists should be unable to drop. Here, then, is a guiding tip. If at the top of the swing you can drop your wrists at will, then the wind-up has been wrong - the wrists should be locked."

Did Martin mention any of this in his vids?

[BroKar]

I understand alot more by watching the above clip, the movie had alot of people doing lleyton Hewitt style moves with there hands without really explaining how to get there, that was the problem for me

[razaar]

Virge/Ray,

would be interested in your thoughts on the negative shaft lean set up.
Dave
The issue with the negative shaft lean is there is no takeaway. It would be easy to get out of alignment without a takeaway, than it would be by starting off from the ball position and reaching this point by the method Mitchell describes. He could do the same thing with the club shaft in the horizonal position and achieve the same straight shot. There are two reasons for taking a back-swing - to start the swing action off in the alignment a player establishes at address and to remove slack for the downswing. The latter is done in the final stages of the back-swing.

[Daves]

Dave
The issue with the negative shaft lean is there is no takeaway. It would be easy to get out of alignment without a takeaway, than it would be by starting off from the ball position and reaching this point by the method Mitchell describes. He could do the same thing with the club shaft in the horizonal position and achieve the same straight shot. There are two reasons for taking a back-swing - to start the swing action off in the alignment a player establishes at address and to remove slack for the downswing. The latter is done in the final stages of the back-swing.

I am not quite sure what you mean by "there is no takeaway"? are you referring to the vid I put up, or one of Martin's? Having converted your Mitchell quote to "lefty" speak, I would say my takeaway feeling resembles his broom sweeping motion description. I tend to/like to drag the club head back whilst kick starting my rotation via my left shoulder blade moving behind me and my right shoulder dipping. There are some photos of Mitchell's swing on the web that to me show negative lean in the takeaway.

http://chestofbooks.com/sports/golf/Present-Day-Golf/The-Methods-Of-Champions-Power-In-The-Long-Game-And-How-They-Get-It-Continued.html

[razaar]

The vid. with the negative lean Brokar commented on. George Duncan, another great player in the 1930's referred to this takeaway, as a press of the left wrist as against the wrist of the right hand. Bobby Jones did the same action but started with the right hip to activate the body, arms and hands first before the clubhead to guard against picking the club up at takeaway.

[Daves]

The vid. with the negative lean Brokar commented on. George Duncan, another great player in the 1930's referred to this takeaway, as a press of the left wrist as against the wrist of the right hand. Bobby Jones did the same action but started with the right hip to activate the body, arms and hands first before the clubhead to guard against picking the club up at takeaway.

Thanks Ray. I had noted Bobby Jones appeared to have used the same starting action. I started using a negative lean quite a while ago in the search for a more consistent start to my swing, and one that let me hit straight through the ball or slightly inside out. I found it helped a lot and I started to develop good distance control, but I was at times inconsistent. Martin helped me better understand the mechanics and with practice I am getting consistent ball contact. The runner stance is also an important element for me.

[razaar]

The runner's stance is an important element for everybody. It promotes the toe, heel action which is a power move. Back on to the right heel with a flexed right knee and the ball of the left foot staying firmly on the ground, then back into the left heel pulling the right heel off the ground. There is no rolling of the feet which is great for the hips, back and balance.

[virge666]

The runner's stance is an important element for everybody. It promotes the toe, heel action which is a power move. Back on to the right heel with a flexed right knee and the ball of the left foot staying firmly on the ground, then back into the left heel pulling the right heel off the ground. There is no rolling of the feet which is great for the hips, back and balance.

The thing I like about the runners stance is that the effect is instantaneous.

You can give it to a 30 marker and he/she will instantly improve... even my 5 year finds hitting the ball easier this way. A couple of young ones have in fact done it this way intuitively.

You can do this without the LCT and still hit it better...

[BroKar]

i went and played 4 holes late this afternoon which was like a range session, i would hit 1-3 drives then hit 4 balls in to the green from where each drive landed, i do this quite a but to play different shots in, I decided to try the negative +++ but with a takeaway move and not starting negative, I only was doing it very slightly and allowing the club to swing freely and the results I have to say were absolutely awesome!! I would say 3 in 4 were landing on the green on average depending on how far out i was.

What I did notice thought was a distance pickup in the irons to 9 iron up to around $130-135 carry, which is a club length longer for me, it was feeling rather odd but I am going to try this and see how we go, I only tried it on one hole with the driver though as it just felt odd, i hit 3 balls off the tee and pushed them all right with this method, in saying that they were all within 5-10 metres of each other just in the right rough.

[dougkpga]

I am having problems with Martin's swing method.

I can't find my hook or block and I am hitting the ball too far with my irons so I am having downhill 40 footers.

[markTHEblake]

So you do have a sense of humour!

[virge666]

I am having problems with Martin's swing method.

I can't find my hook or block and I am hitting the ball too far with my irons so I am having downhill 40 footers.

That would really shit me too...

The big change for me is that the low left shot is gone. I can still block the ball a mile right. But I cannot get it to go left

For a low marker. Losing the left shot is rather important.

[markTHEblake]

I'll admit that I have not 'got it' but I do not hook as much any more. However the significant impact on my game has been the ability to hit shots out of the rough, both long and short game, and really low shots out of the trees, just by using a similar technique to the pitching method, ie coming into the ball with a very open face. My tendency in the past was always to hit low shots too high, or cold top them, to the point where they just frightened me. I hit a shot on saddie, that was in rough that covered the ball, had 150 and going under a tree, and i just flushed it. Not in inch of right to left, and maybe about 6ft high it did not even feel like the rough grabbed hold of the club at all. I simply cant remember ever being able to play that shot, and I played about 3 others out of thick rough and all were awesome, one went too far :-(

[Daves]

I should prefice this by saying I have spent very little time on the so called "move". I have focussed on the basics that Marty showed us at the clinic; runners stance, parallax aiming error, negative shaft lean etc.

My ball striking has improved immensely, my distance control is now a feature. I seem to hit my shots hole high a lot more now. My aiming and alignment are also much better, and at times very good. I played a round at my home course yesterday, the set up was Saturday's Monthly Medal pins and tees. I was 3 over after 2 holes due to a little bit of carelessness and lack of luck. I made the turn at 2 over and I was only 3 over with 3 holes to play. I ended up 8 over due to some poor shot choices and no luck, or a choke which ever you prefer! I managed 3 birdies, but should have had at least 3 or 4 more. The birdies came from hitting my approach shots to within 2 feet including a Hybrid from 180m!. I was inside 10 feet on at least 5 other holes!, if only I could putt as well! The Nunchuk helps a little because I am hitting more fairways in a round, but you still have to hit the approach shots!I am feeling the sensation of being the hammer thrower slinging the club to the target via the ball.

I hit one shot that ended up resulting in a double bogey but really pleased and surprised me because I hit the club much further than I have before. It was pitching wedge, off the centre of the fairway. I normally I hit this 105m on the dot, this one went at least 120m with a slight pull and flew the green. The swing and contact just felt so good and it definitely felt like a slinging action. I might be imagining things of course and may have just de-lofted the club, but it did feel like I have imagined the move would be like.

Now if I can keep it going and improve the putting and mental side!

[virge666]

I should prefice this by saying I have spent very little time on the so called "move". I have focussed on the basics that Marty showed us at the clinic; runners stance, parallax aiming error, negative shaft lean etc.


This IMHO is the ducks nuts with regards to Marty's stuff. Add to it balance and I reckon you have most of the secret. (Secret being a wanky word for "Basic Swing Motion")

The actual twirl on the downswing is absolutely useless to you unless you have these fundamentals down pat, as your body is facing the wrong direction and you cant "Dump" the power at the ball.

The Runners Stance is dead set gold. You feel like a retard, but if you play cricket... it makes perfect sense.

[Yossarian]

The Runners Stance is dead set gold. You feel like a retard, but if you play cricket... it makes perfect sense.

This interests me.

[BroKar]

This may seem like a strange question, but would you find that you stand closer to the ball with Martins method and a tad more upright?

I know this is dependent on how you were setup before but generally speaking

[virge666]

This interests me.

go and find Hogan's five lessons... look at how he sets up his feet... look familiar ???


This may seem like a strange question, but would you find that you stand closer to the ball with Martins method and a tad more upright?

I know this is dependent on how you were setup before but generally speaking

Your right - depends on where you start and whether your arse was stuck out or stuck under you...

The runners stance is awesome. Should have been called the "Most Powerful Stance in Golf" and more been done on it.

[dan]

The runners stance is awesome. Should have been called the "Most Powerful Stance in Golf" and more been done on it.
It's one of those things that seems so obvious when you start doing it.... and you wonder why you never learned it before.

[Yossarian]

Just so i don't have to dig through the whole thread, is it hips and feet pointing at the target and shoulders parallel to the line?

[timah!]

Hips as far 'open' as possible, feet as far 'open' as possible, shoulders square to target...

It's pre-setting resistance...

[Yossarian]

Ah I had it backwards.

[BroKar]

Feet as far open as possible? you dont mean like left foot back type of open do you? like setting up for a fade?you mean the left foot turned out?

[timah!]

'turned out' would be a better phrase, yes.

And both feet, not just the left.

[BroKar]

'turned out' would be a better phrase, yes.

And both feet, not just the left.

Really?? I never knew that one, will give that a crack this afternoon

[timah!]

Really?? I never knew that one, will give that a crack this afternoon

Like a track runners feet ;)
It's part of the 'intent' that Marty talks about. Your whole body is aiming at the target.


I supergoaled Tapatalk.

[Yossarian]

What so like

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/shocz.png/

[Jarro]

Or like this ?

12107

Ala Hogans teachings.

[Yossarian]

I was assuming it was something different otherwise why wouldn't we be calling in Hogans stance?

[razaar]

Hogan only stood open with the short irons. Where are you blokes getting this stuff from?

[timah!]

Stand up. Turn your left foot as far as possible to the left (facing the target.). Now turn your right the same way.


I supergoaled Tapatalk.

[Iain]

Hogan only stood open with the short irons. Where are you blokes getting this stuff from?

Who's saying different? People are just saying the feet are turned/open. Not that the stance line is open for all clubs?

[markTHEblake]

I don't consider that hogan is open or closed with his stance (regardless of club), his feet are square to the target.
ie, he moves his back foot forward or backwards relative to the front foot, he does not turn it.

[BroKar]

Stand up. Turn your left foot as far as possible to the left (facing the target.). Now turn your right the same way.


I supergoaled Tapatalk.

I have never met Martin so I have never had a lesson or anything, but based on his movie I thought this was just a drill to shock the system, does he promote this when playing as well, i thought once the system was shocked you returned to a relatively normal stance with left foot turned out.

I stand like this.
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab102/brokar1/wantima005.jpg

Should I be standing like this as part of Martins whole concept?
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab102/brokar1/wantima006.jpg

I went out todays after some of the things mentioned earlier and will share some of my thoughts after

[markTHEblake]

top photo is correct.
Bottom photo is a drill that you can use to set your intent at the target, but you turn both feet so that they are pointing at the target or as close as you can.

[razaar]

Who's saying different? People are just saying the feet are turned/open. Not that the stance line is open for all clubs?

Well what is this - "Hips as far 'open' as possible, feet as far 'open' as possible, shoulders square to target...

It's pre-setting resistance."

[BroKar]

What I am doing in regards to Martins stuff.

Left foot turned out about 45 degrees = runners stance
body / legs / chest turned say 45 degrees forward = intent and resistance
More up right stance / ball closer = Swinging more in and up

Is this a good start in regards to Martins swing and is the above correct? if so I found I was hooking the ball and needed to weaken my grip, after weakening my grip I started to get a pretty straight ball flight but the contact was very nice on the irons, the driver still had a nice draw to it though which is good.

What were some of the changes that you needed to make in regards to grip and so on to make martins swing work?

[razaar]

Bro
This stance thing you are worrying about doesn't really apply to you. The issue you have is you already stand open to the target even your shoulders are open. This is the reason why sometimes you draw , and other times you push. You have managed to learn a swing where the weight never makes it to your right side. The reason for this is because you haven't developed a full 90* shoulder turn without making a serious tilt to the left. That is just your swing at the present time.

[Iain]

Well what is this - "Hips as far 'open' as possible, feet as far 'open' as possible, shoulders square to target...

It's pre-setting resistance."
Timah meant turned rather than open. Which he confirmed with Brokar.


Feet as far open as possible? you dont mean like left foot back type of open do you? like setting up for a fade?you mean the left foot turned out?

'turned out' would be a better phrase, yes

[razaar]

and what does that do Iain?

[Iain]

It helps get your intent to in front of the ball.

[razaar]

and what about the target?

[Iain]

Yep, that's right. To the target. All of the intent is forward, to the target, nothing back.

[BroKar]

Bro
This stance thing you are worrying about doesn't really apply to you. The issue you have is you already stand open to the target even your shoulders are open. This is the reason why sometimes you draw , and other times you push. You have managed to learn a swing where the weight never makes it to your right side. The reason for this is because you haven't developed a full 90* shoulder turn without making a serious tilt to the left. That is just your swing at the present time.

Thats because I keep going between my swing and Martins setup, today my main focus was the above with keeping my wait even and off the left side which has been an issue for me

[razaar]

well good luck with it.

[virge666]

Geez,

You guys managed to butcher that with Chinese whispers didn't you ??

Let's lose all the whizz bang stuff and bring it back a bit, shall we...

Step 1. Hogans stance as per the 5 lessons. Inside of the right foot perpendicular to the target line and the right foot toed out 20 degrees or so. The heels of both feet are parallel to the target line. They are not open !

Leave your hips alone. Don't force them open. Just let them be... When you stand vertical and relax, your hips will naturally point to the left 10 to 15 degrees as well

Now square your shoulders to the target line... Done and dusted, setup as per hogans five lessons.

Martys drill is a simple addition to that and it is a DRILL, it is nothing but a DRILL. What you do it point the right foot in the same amount as the left foot and hit a few balls. Again the stance is not open, the hips are not forced open, it is all just a result of the feet both being turned out.

An addition to this drill is to turn the feet out a little more and hit some shots... Up to you.

They are reasons for the drill and if you have purchased his video, I am more than happy to explain it to you. PM me an email and I will send it through. Resistance is part of it, but the other reason that he may or may not have explained to you has to do with spacial awareness and the power move, it is very, very cool.

This bit is very simple and very powerful. And after reading the 5 lessons again last week, more things in that book make sense. Especially the bit about "inside muscles"

Life is good.

[razaar]

Seems like you have worked it out Virge, good for you. After all the stuff that was flying around on the ISG forum about Marty's videos, I decided to spent time working it out as it relates to me. As mentioned previously I had the advantage of Abe Mitchell's books as well as "Bobby Jones on Golf" and "Bobby Locke on Golf". Without these publications I would never in a million years been able to understand and feel the benefits of this swing method. IMO is is not a swing that can be taught to beginners and it is certainly not a swing for people with limited shoulder flexibility.
On Sunday I was hitting one arm pitches (right arm) to a target on our practice range. One of our pros Paul Arnott (Tom's dad) wandered over to see what I was doing and how I was doing it. After I explained the method and principles behind it, he asked me to hit a few shots with both hands on the club. His comment was - "everything is perfectly square". That is only one of the benefits, another is it locks everything in place every time, as if you are swinging back in a jig. Another benefit has the right arm working in the perfect position as it straightens. I was never able to understand how Ben Hogan achieved his straight right arm into the follow through...I fully understand it now. I am convinced that this is what Tiger is working on at present. It is an entirely different release than his previous swings. I can see the same thing in Mat Kucher's swing also.
Funny how things workout...if it hadn't been for Martin and the shit thrown I would never have looked at this method.

[Daves]

We should perhaps start a separate thread for Abe Mitchell stuff, though it does relate strongly to Marty's stuff. I had not really looked in depth at any Abe Mitchell till now. Last night I watched a series of vids that Elk And Mike Maves had done about Abe's swing and technique a while ago on SITD. Wow! how good is it! I am still a bit unsure on the legs loading/twisting method, but boy does the forearm twists add power and accuracy! I tried it at the range this evening and they were just coming out pure, straight and long. At least a club longer it seemed to me!

[martinez]

Looking to do another clinic and gauging interest. Same deal as before if I can get sufficient numbers I will keep the cost as low as possible for the individual.
Cheers
Martin

[Daves]

Looking to do another clinic and gauging interest. Same deal as before if I can get sufficient numbers I will keep the cost as low as possible for the individual.
Cheers
Martin

Hi Martin,

hope you are well. I am a keen starter subject to a final date being locked in. I am usually OK for any day of the week, but suspect that a weekend day is going to suit the majority.

1. Daves

[Iain]

1. Daves
2. Iain

Maybe this should have it's own thread?

[razaar]

We should perhaps start a separate thread for Abe Mitchell stuff, though it does relate strongly to Marty's stuff. I had not really looked in depth at any Abe Mitchell till now. Last night I watched a series of vids that Elk And Mike Maves had done about Abe's swing and technique a while ago on SITD. Wow! how good is it! I am still a bit unsure on the legs loading/twisting method, but boy does the forearm twists add power and accuracy! I tried it at the range this evening and they were just coming out pure, straight and long. At least a club longer it seemed to me!

Dave
Something you should know about Abe Mitchell's swing is that his follow through finished at hip high and well to the left. His action through the impact zone had the back of an abducted left left wrist coming into the ball from the inside and he would flick the back of the left hand through the ball. Golf swing analyists of his time referred to his swing as a punch action.

[Daves]

Dave
Something you should know about Abe Mitchell's swing is that his follow through finished at hip high and well to the left. His action through the impact zone had the back of an abducted left left wrist coming into the ball from the inside and he would flick the back of the left hand through the ball. Golf swing analyists of his time referred to his swing as a punch action.

Hi Ray,

I sort of got the jist of the abbreviated low follow through from one of your posts and watching some footage of Abe. I have not done a lot with it yet, but my small amount of trial of it tells me it is a very powerful action that helps clean contact, but it needs strength and practice to maintain and aim.

[razaar]

Dave
If you get a chance to watch the current Champion's Tour event, Chien Soon Lu's swing is not unlike Mitchell's action. IMO it is Michell's action. Some of the comments by the commentators about it being a "home made" swing made me smile. I think he shot 62 or thereabouts today.

[Courty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKohUodDs3E

[razaar]

Thanks Courty. Not quite Mitchell's hand action through the ball, but Lu isn't swinging hickory shafts. Things to note with this swing is the position of the left thumb at the top of the swing. It is directly behind and under the shaft in line with the target (has moved 90* from the address posaition) which is ultra square. The right elbow moves forward and down following the lead of the lower body. The elbow returning to the body opens the clubface by a few degrees which has to be accounted for after the ball has been struck by the left hand rotating under . Not much different to what Martin teaches.

[martinez]

It's the squareness of this players body that gives him that hand action....the energy having to go somewhere. I wouldn't say this has anything to do with what I teach because no one I teach ends up facing the ball like that at impact. But I can see why his swing works for him.

[razaar]

I'd love to know if Lu learnt his swing from Mitchell's book "Essentials of Golf" or was taught about those fundamentals. His upper body action is exactly that described by Mitchell - even the rotation of the arms throgh impact to keep the ball down. Have you read that book Martin?

[gazgolf1]

This is how Elk is swinging now, looked better when he was working with Martin.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kh6wVVAEqk&feature=plcp


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnmrBPxlBAs

[gazgolf1]

Off topic but interesting, jeez Eastwood is old.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KiNbJfXiGI&list=PL767AC6F8AB97C0AE&index=7&feature =plpp_video

[TheNuclearOne]

It's the squareness of this players body that gives him that hand action....the energy having to go somewhere. I wouldn't say this has anything to do with what I teach because no one I teach ends up facing the ball like that at impact. But I can see why his swing works for him.

Actually i picked up on this in a link to your work last night. Went thru a lot of before and afters and took particular note of that Captain Hook? clip. It was astonishing how much clubhead speed was generated and how simple the swing was. Will be trying this tomorrow sometime.

[gazgolf1]

Reviving an oldie. Looks like Martin was coaching Cameron Beckman at one stage, never understood his winding up of the hands/arms.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ_Z4idans0

[Captain Nemo]

Christ, who the **** is Beckman?

[virge666]

Christ, who the **** is Beckman?

probably one of our best Australian players at the moment...

[gazgolf1]

probably one of our best Australian players at the moment...

You're thinking of Cam Smith
This is Beckman https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.12652.cameron-beckman.html

[Captain Nemo]

Lol...
This is ****ed up!

[virge666]

You're thinking of Cam Smith
This is Beckman https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.12652.cameron-beckman.html

HA !!!

thats him the little baby faced dude.