Question for the guru's

[leighthebee]

Had a mini discussion here in another thread re lie angles.

How much will your swing affect your lie angle rather than just your height and arms etc.

Will a significant change in swing result in a major change in lie angle.

Reason I ask is this an observation this morning where I have been working on my weak grip and as I strengthened it (i.e. moved my left wrist further right around the club), I noticed that with the consequent required wrist bend to allow for the grip, brought the toe of the club up.

This moves the club closer to my body, flattening out the lie I am guessing.

Any further ideas, or am I dreaming.....:?

[Minor_Threat]

That is why people use a lie board.

Basically you tape the sole of the club and swing on a board (making contact with the board). This contact then makes a mark on the tape and therefore shows your lie angle at impact.

[PeteyD]

Oh, I thought a lie board was how you measures the distance of your drives before posting them in a golf forum!

I often wonder about how important lies can be, considering you rarely play off flat ground. I do know that toe up = hit left (for righties) as the face points slightly left.

[Toolish]

LTB it sounds like you are observing static lie angle. A lie board or a marked ball gives dynamic lie angle which is what the lie angle is like at impact.

As for playing off a slope and how important is lie angle. If you are playing off a slope you should know to allow for it...you should not have to allow for it every shot.

A swing change can affect the lie angle so if you are undergoing changes then get you angles checked again a bit down the track.

Also, lie angle should be checked with every club.

[razaar]

Had a mini discussion here in another thread re lie angles.

How much will your swing affect your lie angle rather than just your height and arms etc.

Will a significant change in swing result in a major change in lie angle.

Reason I ask is this an observation this morning where I have been working on my weak grip and as I strengthened it (i.e. moved my left wrist further right around the club), I noticed that with the consequent required wrist bend to allow for the grip, brought the toe of the club up.

This moves the club closer to my body, flattening out the lie I am guessing.

Any further ideas, or am I dreaming.....:?
This is a mini version of what happens in a good golf swing. The arms swing around a fixed point somewhere in the upper chest. They can move in one plane or two planes. In two planes, the downswing and follow through (same plane) don't match the backswing plane.
The grip and lie angle set a different plane for the clubhead to that of the hands at address. The clubhead plane/planes also move around a fixed point in the upper chest and like the arm plane/s, can be on a single plane or two planes. The downswing and follow through planes are always on a single plane. How the wrist joints work will affect the length and internal working and timing of the swing. Once the downswing begins the swing free wheels itself to a finish.
At some point in the downswing the hands will slow down and the clubhead will overtake them through centrifugal force which throws the clubhead outside the hands and bows the shaft forwards and with the toe of the head moving in a downwards direction. The amount of foward bend and bowing of the shaft is dertermined by shaft stiffness and clubhead speed.
The ideal senario is for the sole of the clubhead to be level with the ground and the face moving and pointing towards the target.

[3oneday]

This is a mini version of what happens in a good golf swing. The arms swing around a fixed point somewhere in the upper chest. They can move in one plane or two planes. In two planes, the downswing and follow through (same plane) don't match the backswing plane.
The grip and lie angle set a different plane for the clubhead to that of the hands at address. The clubhead plane/planes also move around a fixed point in the upper chest and like the arm plane/s, can be on a single plane or two planes. The downswing and follow through planes are always on a single plane. How the wrist joints work will affect the length and internal working and timing of the swing. Once the downswing begins the swing free wheels itself to a finish.
At some point in the downswing the hands will slow down and the clubhead will overtake them through centrifugal force which throws the clubhead outside the hands and bows the shaft forwards and with the toe of the head moving in a downwards direction. The amount of foward bend and bowing of the shaft is dertermined by shaft stiffness and clubhead speed.
The ideal senario is for the sole of the clubhead to be level with the ground and the face moving and pointing towards the target.
what he said ;)

[virge666]

Will a significant change in swing result in a major change in lie angle.

Any further ideas, or am I dreaming.....:?

Dreaming...

Lie angle is basically the relationship of the club shaft/head to your hands AT IMPACT.

Repeat after me... IMPACT

No, we don't give a shit whether you are tall or short, what is looks like at setup, or how you think it should be. It is all about that impact position. We just put you on a lie board and work it out from there.

If you have low hands at impact, this equals a flat lie, high hands through impact equals a upright lie. A rule of thumb is body release = flat, Handsy release = upright. All club shaft will bend downwards through impact, so what it looks like at setup does not matter.

You would have to have a MAJOR, MAJOR swing change to change your lie angles, or a change in the length of club. The more you lengthen your clubs - the more upright you are through impact.

So unless you have done anythng in that realm... you should be fine if your lie angle were correct in th first place.

[leighthebee]

brilliant. thanks guys

[IanO]

This has been a singularly informative post

[mike]

Leigh I had my lie angles checked a few years ago and asked the pro the exact same question. ie I'm forever tinkering with my swing and grip so will that affect the lie angle. He told me it doesn't matter what I do with my swing/grip/posture the lie angle will not be effected.

[Oldplayer]

I have been told by pros and teachers that an individuals lie angle at impact does not change regardless of swing changes. It is like a signiture. A persons hand/wrist attitude is constant regardless of how they swing; or so I've been told.

[virge666]

A persons hand/wrist attitude is constant regardless of how they swing; or so I've been told.

It is a signature in so far that usually, you dont change the height of your hands at impact. Since your arms don't get ay longer or shorter. It usually stays pretty constant.

However - if you were to change from a handsy, flippy player where your wrists are rotating over at impact like a Bubba Watson, Lucas Glover or Rory Sabbatini to a body release player like Steve Stricker, Stuart Appleby, KJ Choi or Robert Allenby then your hands would be lower through impact and hence a lie change would be required.

Most players, especially mid-high markers think they are changing a lot, but most of the time -the hands will stay consistant.

The other great way to require a lie change is to lose the low right arse through impact, that is always worth a degree on a lie board. Makes you a much better striker too.

Enjoy

[leighthebee]

Most players, especially mid-high markers think they are changing a lot, but most of the time -the hands will stay consistant.



Enjoy

I think this may be my case. Thinking huge changes and feeling it, but not actually changing significantly

[markTHEblake]

especially mid-high markers think they are changing a lot, but most of the time -the hands will stay consistant.

I love it when people say "hey check out my new swing, what do you think?" and i am like, :smt017 :-k

so i usually say 'looks more solid' and slink away.

[PeteyD]

Just do a Hogan and say "Terrible". :D

I never pay attention to other peoples swings, except when they become dangerous (Haysey's albatross wingspan and the Hennocopter for instance)!