Schumacher's comeback!

[dc68]

Will he succeed?

[matty]

I think that will be determined by the car. I reckon he would still have the ability.

[henno]

Does he still have the fitness, though?

[3oneday]

For $11 million, will he care ?

[Yossarian]

Does he still have the right license?

[Chris32]

Given a good car he'll win next year

As much as I don't like the guy he is a excellent driver

[Coffs_Hacker]

its formula1 got nothin to do with good drivers, put any of them in the best car and the right pit stops and they will win.

[macjackass]

Big who cares!!

[PeteyD]

Webber will kick his sauerkraut butt

[Bruce Dickinson]

wonder who he'll run off the road this time

[Veefore]

Lauda made a successful comeback.
Schumacher has maintained a fair level of fitness required for F1. He was the "Tiger Woods" of F1, introducing a new level of fitness when he entered the sport.
He has also stayed sharp racing bikes and "testing" F1 cars.

In the right car, or even in the wrong car, I think he will certainly make an impact. He was the best there has ever been and with his racing smarts I think he'll make a pretty good showing. Maybe not as good as some of his fans would like though.

[Jarro]

post #4 just about sums it all up :roll:

[leighthebee]

its formula1 got nothin to do with good drivers, put any of them in the best car and the right pit stops and they will win.

Fisichella, Kovaleinen, Trulli are just three examples where this is not the case.

The best car helps, but the driver is still the biggest box that needs to be ticked.

[leighthebee]

He was the best there has ever been and with his racing smarts I think he'll make a pretty good showing. Maybe not as good as some of his fans would like though.

I think F1 needs to be split into different era's. "Best there has ever been" is a very wide spectrum.

Personally, I think he would have been handed his arse had Senna lived past '94, and personally, there has never been a better steerer than Jim Clark.

[leighthebee]

Webber will kick his sauerkraut butt

Not with a Renault powered Red Bull he won't.

That Merc (slash Honda slash Brawn) will be pretty impressive now that it can be developed with some funding.

[Veefore]

I think F1 needs to be split into different era's. "Best there has ever been" is a very wide spectrum.

Personally, I think he would have been handed his arse had Senna lived past '94, and personally, there has never been a better steerer than Jim Clark.

It is a pretty broad statement but the simple fact is that like golf and "majors", when the career is over and the results tallied up the driver with the most world championships is king.
I mostly agree with you about different eras but Senna and Schu did overlap enough to get some idea.

Senna switched to the Williams in '94 because it was the best car and yet Schumacher was already beating him in the inferior Bennetton. In fact, in the first two races of that year, he comprehensively thrashed the entire field, making them all look average.

Senna was following Schumacher (and falling back) at the time of his untimely death. He was already winding down towards the end of his career then anyway and probably only had another season or two at most after '94. Afterall, he had already been at the top level for 10 years or so. He "may" have won another championship, but it was highly unlikely. It certainly wasn't going to happen in '94.

The thing is, Senna was just fast. He was intense and willing to win at all costs. There have been a lot of fast drivers over the years. Schu was fast AND smart. He did things that had never been done before and are now standard practice like the fast in-out laps. He could manage a race and a championship. In '96 he won races in a clearly inferior Ferrari.

I never saw Clarke race so can't comment on him but have heard many stories. In the end though, as I wrote above, World Championship racing is all about the winning World Championships and Schu managed to do that more than anyone else who has tried.

[virge666]

VeeFore - Couldn't agree more.

But I still miss James Hunt.

[leighthebee]

It is a pretty broad statement but the simple fact is that like golf and "majors", when the career is over and the results tallied up the driver with the most world championships is king.

Its just they race so much more now. F1 that is. The old guys used to race all year round. Going from F1 to F2 to F3 (well their equivalent), sports cars, can ams, Le Mans, Indy 500. These days they need just as much time for the sponsors as they do driving the cars.

Better at F1, yes, better driver, not so sure.



switched to the Williams in '94 because it was the best car and yet Schumacher was already beating him in the inferior Bennetton. In fact, in the first two races of that year, he comprehensively thrashed the entire field, making them all look average.

Senna was following Schumacher (and falling back) at the time of his untimely death. He was already winding down towards the end of his career then anyway and probably only had another season or two at most after '94. Afterall, he had already been at the top level for 10 years or so. He "may" have won another championship, but it was highly unlikely. It certainly wasn't going to happen in '94.

The thing is, Senna was just fast. He was intense and willing to win at all costs. There have been a lot of fast drivers over the years. Schu was fast AND smart. He did things that had never been done before and are now standard practice like the fast in-out laps. He could manage a race and a championship. In '96 he won races in a clearly inferior Ferrari.

I never saw Clarke race so can't comment on him but have heard many stories. In the end though, as I wrote above, World Championship racing is all about the winning World Championships and Schu managed to do that more than anyone else who has tried.

Yeah your probably right, well I know your right, but I just don't like him.

[TourFit]

Rally drivers are the best drivers !!!

Loeb may possibly switch to F1 soon. He has tested just as quick as some of the F1 drivers anyway.

[Veefore]

Rally drivers are the best drivers !!!

Loeb may possibly switch to F1 soon. He has tested just as quick as some of the F1 drivers anyway.

A common misconception. People think it is harder to slide a car than to drive it on bitumen. It isn't. It is just different. In fact some people (like me) actually find dirt easier than bitumen. The best drivers are the best because they have phenomenal car control and understanding of vehicle dynamics. It doesn't really matter what discipline they choose, they will be the best. If Schu had chosen rally he would have won championships in that. If Loeb had chosen F1 I think he would have won championships there. Switching now might be difficult for him though as F1 is a completely different discipline and a couple of quick laps on a test day don't amount to a race winner.

Look at the ROC and the (now defunct) bercy kart races. At his peak, Schu absolutely dominated those against drivers from all disciplines (rally, nascar, touring cars, open wheelers).
At the bercy kart races he made a mockery of the other drivers, doing full length powerslides and even throwing the car into a sliding 360 down the main straight and still pulling away from the field. Seeing him do that make me realise then that I was watching a very rare talent.

Schu was even good enough to switch to Superbikes after retiring from F1 and be competitive in the German National Championships.

[TourFit]

You'll get no arguments from me regarding the talents of Herr Schumacher !!!

I think overall he is a 'better' driver than Senna, who was undoubtedly more of a racer and probably quicker overall. But he was always on the edge and lost many races from going over that edge (and making some errors too). Schuey, to me looked like a cross between Senna and Prost. With the calculation and thinking ability of Prost, Schuey seemed to know when to be cautious and when to go for it. Senna did it too much, and Prost, to me, seemed to not do it enough.

Oh, and apparently Schuey's strength was his understanding of the mechanical side and how to set up his car (much like Mick Doohan)

[leighthebee]

....and Prost, to me, seemed to not do it enough. (much like Mick Doohan)

'cept when it came to Senna.

it's quite a rare thing to be able to put a car on the limit.

a friend had a rotax kart and round the local track spent days on days over a couple of years getting down to the 38sec mark on the track.

he gave me a go and best i managed over the dozen or so laps was 43sec.

another mate, never been in a kart before first few laps does a 35.

ex national champ does 32's.

crazy fast......

[Veefore]

Oh, and apparently Schuey's strength was his understanding of the mechanical side and how to set up his car (much like Mick Doohan)

Both legendary among race engineers. Quite the opposite of Raikkonen who is completely at sea trying to set up a car and give useful feedback.

[mike]

...He was the best there has ever been ...
Veefore I'm sure we had this same argument on ISG about a hundred years ago. :lol:
I'm not a Schumacher fan. Drove dirty. Ramming Mansell @ Adelaide is a perfect example. Mansell winning would have leapfrogged him past Schumacher for the title. The German conveniently forgot where his brake pedal was. Oops.
Schumacher at his peak was unbeatable because of a far far superior car. He was miles in front (point wise) of another Ferrari driver, Barricello. To suggest Barricello was the second best driver that year would be absurd.
F1 drivers today are just screw-in light bulbs. Put Tommy Brumble into the fastest car with the most efficient pit crew and he'll win.

I followed F1 very closely in the '70s and '80s when the driver was more important than the car. Hunt, Lauda, Fittipaldi, Prost. All brilliant. But Senna was by far the best.

My all time favourite was Gilles Villeneuve. Drove like a lunatic which cost him his life.


its formula1 got nothin to do with good drivers, put any of them in the best car and the right pit stops and they will win. Unfortunately these days, this is 100% correct. F1 today is a bore.

[TourFit]

Both legendary among race engineers. Quite the opposite of Raikkonen who is completely at sea trying to set up a car and give useful feedback.

Not surprised...I've seen his interviews!!! :mrgreen:

[leighthebee]

My all time favourite was Gilles Villeneuve. Drove like a lunatic which cost him his life.

Unfortunately these days, this is 100% correct. F1 today is a bore.

I think you'll remember it was Hill Schuey sideswiped for the title.

As for drivers having no bearing. It is less I'll grant you, the days are gone when a good driver could win in a crap car. Now it needs both, and the car designed around the drivers characteristics is what counts.

Button is a fine example. Good car at Williams when he started but a relative rookie, so some good results. Average cars essentially until 2009, pretty average results. Excellent car this year, WDC.

Did Barichello win it? No. The car is a larger factor these days, if not THE factor, but it isn't everything.

As for Gilles.......Well

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y248/leighthebee/Gil_Vill.jpg

[leighthebee]

and who could forget.......or if you haven't seen it, the best fight ever for 2nd. :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Fxah19AWo&feature=related

makes me miss Murray actually......

hopefully they'll get him for the Oz GP again this year.

[mike]

Ah haven't seen that one for a while. Classic Villeneuve . That Ferrari was a pig.

[Veefore]

I believe it was Senna who pulled off the most audacious ramming in the history of F1 to win a championship. It certainly was the most stupid and dangerous move I've ever seen. And it was premeditated, not just an act of desperation in the heat of the moment. Not that he was the first though. Dirty driving and F1 have a long history together that doesn't look like ending any time soon. That was why I found it so amusing when Schu's bump on Hill drew so much outrage. Hadn't these people ever watched F1 before?

Gilles was one of my all time favourite drivers. A bit like watching Mickelson. A miracle move one second, a stupid spinoff the next. You never knew just what he was going to do next. He was never going to rack up a heap of championships, he was far too inconsistent. But shit he was exciting!
This years final round drive from Button reminded me of Gilles.

Lauda was another of my favourites. For the exact opposite reasons that I liked Gilles.


Schumacher DID win three championships in cars that weren't superior. That much is fact. '94 and '95 Williams were clearly superior and in '00 McLaren were streets ahead of the field. Schu would have won '98 against a superior McLaren had it not been for the final round f...up in Japan when he stalled on the grid. '99 he broke his leg at Silverstone or he probably would have won the championship then too!

[Toolish]

V4 Are you talking about Senna and Prost first corner at Suzuka?

That was coming from the year before...not to justify it at all.

That sort of edge seems to be common in a lot of great drivers...not sure of it is arrogance or just a win at all costs deal but it is common at the top end of motorsport for sure.

[leighthebee]

it is now, but it never used to be like that.

money killed it..........