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edhannan
7th December 2009, 06:09 AM
Anyone familiar with the Moe drill? How does one do it?

razaar
7th December 2009, 06:51 AM
http://moenormangolfacademy.org/free/topped-golf-shots.aspx

Moe Norman
7th December 2009, 07:33 AM
it involves missing lots of short putts

henno
7th December 2009, 07:45 AM
That's pretty funny.

edhannan
7th December 2009, 08:19 AM
http://moenormangolfacademy.org/free/topped-golf-shots.aspx

Seems a likely place to look, Razaar, but I don't see it there. Can you direct me?

razaar
7th December 2009, 09:10 AM
Not familar with the drill Ed; thought that site would be the most likely place to see it. From what I can see of his technique, the arms and club shaft are on the same plane at takeaway and stay on the same plane through to the finish. This requires the hands to be quite a distance from the body which means less power. I understood he needed special grips for such an upright hands position. I think the one plane swing method was conceived shortly after Moe Norman's swing and his golfing exploits were given media coverage. Have you tried looking in the one plane swing sites?

edhannan
7th December 2009, 12:51 PM
Not familar with the drill Ed; thought that site would be the most likely place to see it. From what I can see of his technique, the arms and club shaft are on the same plane at takeaway and stay on the same plane through to the finish. This requires the hands to be quite a distance from the body which means less power. I understood he needed special grips for such an upright hands position. I think the one plane swing method was conceived shortly after Moe Norman's swing and his golfing exploits were given media coverage. Have you tried looking in the one plane swing sites?

Thanks, Razaar, but I won't chase that lead. I guess most golfers have unique features in their swings. Moe Norman had more than most. The "Moe drill" (if it is derived from Norman's technique) might exploit any one of those.

virge666
7th December 2009, 02:56 PM
I have a lot of Video of Peter Lonard doing it... It is one of the favourites for any RSS player.

It is a great drill for direction of turn and also to teach the shoulders and left arm to be passive.

I think Faldo also was a big advocate for it as well.

Jarro
7th December 2009, 05:12 PM
Can you post this vid in here Virge ?

edhannan
8th December 2009, 03:42 AM
Can you post this vid in here Virge ?

Yes, please do, Virge. I'm very interested in it.

edhannan
8th December 2009, 05:46 PM
Here is Lonard doing a preset drill. Is the Moe drill the same thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALclaLBa63Q

virge666
8th December 2009, 05:55 PM
Here is Lonard doing a preset drill. Is the Moe drill the same thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALclaLBa63Q


Yeah mate - that is the one.

Pre-**** the wrists, then just lift your shoulders around and then hit the ball.

It is to stop the left shoulder going under your chin and getting wide on the backswing. Or getting pulled off the ball.

You will see a lot of today's pros having their own little version of it, Mike Weir has his takeaway, Nitties does his. You will see Pamps do it quite a bit as well.

Enjoy

virge666
8th December 2009, 06:01 PM
Can we please take Co(k out of the swear filter... seems silly when we are allowed to Shit.

edhannan
8th December 2009, 06:05 PM
OK...thank you, Virge.

I've seen Pampling doing the same drill in one of the GE vids.

adlo
8th December 2009, 07:48 PM
Hey Virge, Lonards hips seem to clear very late when compared with a non RSS pro. Is that normal?

virge666
8th December 2009, 08:15 PM
Hey Virge, Lonards hips seem to clear very late when compared with a non RSS pro. Is that normal?


yeah - this ****ed me for years - wy do some RSS swingers clear and others not, dead set screwed me for years. I must have asked this question like 20 times... with no decent answer from anyone.

Untill a video I saw from Gaz not long ago when I asked about the follow through. Yep - best thing about GE, ask a question and you are the subject of the next month's Q&A video... very cool. So the vids on Follow through and this months video on Balance... yeah baby, that me !

but I digress.

It is about direction of turn. as long as you are going around and as long as you stay in your posture or "shape", it doesn't really matter. Your body will just follow the arms around.

Think about a baseball swing... the lower half sort of "braces" and then follow the arms around in the right direction.

As long as you are not clearing your hips on a different plane to your swing plane - it is all good.

Enjoy

Your best view of going around is the first swing Lonard on this set of swings . . .

razaar
8th December 2009, 08:47 PM
Wonder why it is called the Moe drill. Moe Norman set up at address with the clubhead a good 12 - 18 inches to the inside and behind the ball. The drill Lonard is doing is the drill David Leadbetter used as a key to improve Nick Price's swing way back n the 90's. Faldo also adopted it again from Leadbetter. It's purpose I understand is to guarantee that the clubface rotates 90* during the backswing, sooner rather than later, especially with those players with a fast tempo and/or a short backswing. It also c0cks the wrists and sets the left forearm shaft relationship early in the backswing which helps with timing in a fast swing tempo and/or compact swing.

adlo
8th December 2009, 10:04 PM
yeah - this ****ed me for years - wy do some RSS swingers clear and others not, dead set screwed me for years. I must have asked this question like 20 times... with no decent answer from anyone.

Untill a video I saw from Gaz not long ago when I asked about the follow through. Yep - best thing about GE, ask a question and you are the subject of the next month's Q&A video... very cool. So the vids on Follow through and this months video on Balance... yeah baby, that me !

but I digress.

It is about direction of turn. as long as you are going around and as long as you stay in your posture or "shape", it doesn't really matter. Your body will just follow the arms around.

Think about a baseball swing... the lower half sort of "braces" and then follow the arms around in the right direction.

As long as you are not clearing your hips on a different plane to your swing plane - it is all good.

Enjoy

Your best view of going around is the first swing Lonard on this set of swings . . .
Interesting.

Thanks Virge.

I have never enjoyed watching Lonards swing, but its effectiveness cannot be questioned (until his recent injuries/bad form).

Jono
9th December 2009, 09:31 AM
I don't know any specific drill called the "Moe drill". However, I do know that he followed the teachings of Paul Bertholy who taught a left sided swing.

I saw a picture of Moe doing a Paul Bertholy drill once. You have the hands apart good 12 inches on the club, and at the top you flatten the shaft angle and pull in with the right hand and lead the club with the left hand. This will give you tremendous lag and the right elbow will move in front of you. The theory is that if you repeat the drill until the cows came home, you'll produce similar lag during the swing.

Moe Norman said that he flattened the shaft so much during transition that he once hit his right foot with the clubhead on the way down. Now, Moe has been known to exagerate a few things, but you get the idea what he was trying to do.

edhannan
9th December 2009, 03:56 PM
It is about direction of turn. as long as you are going around and as long as you stay in your posture or "shape", it doesn't really matter. Your body will just follow the arms around.

Think about a baseball swing... the lower half sort of "braces" and then follow the arms around in the right direction.

As long as you are not clearing your hips on a different plane to your swing plane - it is all good.

Enjoy

Your best view of going around is the first swing Lonard on this set of swings . . .


??? clip coming? edited out?

virge666
9th December 2009, 04:40 PM
Your all getting too complex and trying to name things...left sided this and Paul-sombody that.

All the drill does is preset the turn. Nothing more and nothing less. Don't care who started it. You don't get a gold star for why it is called the Moe swing, it is pretty obvious.

You simply preset the radius of the swing and then just turn the shoulders up to the top of the backswing and then you will find yourself in a position to start the downswing by bracing the body and bringing the arms down. You don't forcibly use the wrists in any way on the backswing or downswing.

To see how it works - video yourself with your normal swing first and then video the "Moe" drill. Compare the results.

Enjoy. It is my favourite drill.

PS: The Rightsided Swing use to be also called a Strong Left sided swing - as the right side goes around a strong left side. (Names are just names - don't put too much faith in them)

virge666
9th December 2009, 04:43 PM
I have never enjoyed watching Lonards swing, but its effectiveness cannot be questioned (until his recent injuries/bad form).

Lonard's swing is nothing like that anymore... You just have to watch is left shoulder and hand action to see how much DL has changed him.

Get an old vid and compare - The way he turns back is totally different.

Jono
10th December 2009, 10:30 PM
Virge, I was just pointing out what Moe actually did. That drill might be coined the "Moe drill" but I've never seen Moe do that drill.

GE RSS doesn't really resemble what Moe did.

Jono
10th December 2009, 10:45 PM
Here's a picture of Moe doing a Bertholy drill called "vertical drop".

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2643/moeverticaldrop.jpg


If you read Paul Bertholy's teachings, you can find the terms that Moe talks about in his video. eg. left arm rod and right arm claw, buckle-sit-slide-bump.

virge666
13th December 2009, 04:26 PM
GE RSS doesn't really resemble what Moe did.

They both use the same hand and right forearm action, this was a major thing back in the day when people used a lot of hand action. Hogan, Moe and few others started this.

There is nothing really that different. It is the modern golf swing. The only thing GE does that is really that different is control the body to a particularly high level. Their bodies all rotate around a strong left side and their hands work UP and not OVER.

Watching someone like Appleby, who is the image of a mechanical modern golf swing, then seeing him compared to Scott in slo-mo, who has one of the best swings on the planet should show you that the hands are not part of their either swings.

This is the bit I want everyone to take away with them. The hands require Hand-to-Eye co-ordination. The arms don't. Just set your wrists at setup - and then let your arms control them. Don't try and control the club with "hand speed", it doesn't work.

This is also a reason why have little to no regard for most of the older players mechanics.

addamsmith
17th December 2009, 04:30 PM
When I first posted the vids of Lonard using this drill is was because on another site there was talk about Faldos Drill which he first learnt from Leadbetter and from what I have read it was modified into the famous pump 1/2/3 hit drill.
I have a old clip of Moe doing the drill but with his arm under the shaft like in the picture posted.

Jono
21st December 2009, 02:16 PM
This is the bit I want everyone to take away with them. The hands require Hand-to-Eye co-ordination. The arms don't. Just set your wrists at setup - and then let your arms control them. Don't try and control the club with "hand speed", it doesn't work.



That statement has no bearing on what Moe did in comparison to RSS. Moe is about as close to RSS as Nicklaus or Watson.

If you want to know the drills that Moe did, you might want to read up on Paul Bertholy's work. Almost diametrically opposite to RSS.

virge666
21st December 2009, 06:40 PM
That statement has no bearing on what Moe did in comparison to RSS. Moe is about as close to RSS as Nicklaus or Watson.

If you want to know the drills that Moe did, you might want to read up on Paul Bertholy's work. Almost diametrically opposite to RSS.


OK, I will bite.

Gimme three fundemental differences. Just three.

Jono
22nd December 2009, 06:27 PM
OK, I will bite.

Gimme three fundemental differences. Just three.

I'll do better than that. I'll lend you the book on Bertholy's teachings. 8)

virge666
24th December 2009, 02:06 PM
I'll do better than that. I'll lend you the book on Bertholy's teachings. 8)

Oh goody - another out of print 1960's guru that no one gives a shit about. Try and find someone who doesn't think outside rotation of the right shoulder with clearing hips is the way to go.

The game has changed John, come and join us in the 21st century.

Jono
24th December 2009, 10:08 PM
The game has changed John, come and join us in the 21st century.

At the back surgeon's? ;)

virge666
24th December 2009, 10:20 PM
At the back surgeon's? ;)

Nice !

:smt038