Flattest swing in Ozgolf?

[razaar]

After watching Henno’s swing get flatter and flatter over time I have concluded that by this time next year he will be swinging around his belt buckle.
What happens now?
The centre of the hub of his swinging action appears to be around the middle of the chest to belly button. (a point fixed in space as he coils). This puts his hands well below his right shoulder at the top of the backswing and his arm plane below his shoulder plane. This is very rare in a golf swing of someone Henno’s height. It is a good action if the ball is sitting up on a tee with the flatter lofted club or well above the feet on an inclined lie: not so good with anything on the fairway and worse in the rough and bunkers. It is also a good action for the player who has a very horizontally inclined posture from the hips up, by compensation.
So what’s the go Henno – are you happy with this?

[henno]

So what’s the go Henno – are you happy with this?

Am I happy with the flatness of my backswing? Hell no!

I have a few drills I am trying to do to correct it (refer: here (http://ozgolf.net/forums/showpost.php?p=371506&postcount=78)), but hoisting the club so high just feel foreign to me.

[grandmasterb]

Am I happy with the flatness of my backswing? Hell no!

I have a few drills I am trying to do to correct it (refer: here (http://ozgolf.net/forums/showpost.php?p=371506&postcount=78)), but hoisting the club so high just feel foreign to me.

x2 i've just accepted i swing flat and not going to try and change it anymore!!!

[3oneday]

Matt Kuchar has come back with a swing that works, is Henno flatter than that ?

[razaar]

Am I happy with the flatness of my backswing? Hell no!

I have a few drills I am trying to do to correct it (refer: here (http://ozgolf.net/forums/showpost.php?p=371506&postcount=78)), but hoisting the club so high just feel foreign to me.
To get a concept of what it will feel like at the top. In the address position lift the club to chin height, c0ck the wrists (to 90*) so the left is flat with the right slightly flex and turn the shoulders 90*.

[Daves]

I guess it would be much harder to hit outside in with a flatter swing raz? Is it also a potential recipe for hooksville?

I have played around a little with the different swing planes between upright and flat, mostly on the range. Still trying to categorise how I can put the variations to best use. I know I have found by trial and error that a very upright swing plane is usually the best out of the rough, and a flatter plane seems to help me if I want hit a strong draw/hook.

[razaar]

I guess it would be much hard to hit outside in with a flatter swing raz? Is it also a potential recipe for hooksville?

I have played around a little with the different swing planes between upright and flat, mostly on the range. Still trying to categorise how I can put the variations to best use. I know I have found by trial and error that a very upright swing plane is usually the best out of the rough, and a flatter plane seems to help me if I want hit a strong draw/hook.
One of the adverse consequences of a flat swing plane is that the clubface is square to the target for less time than a more upright plane, therefore ball position and control of the clubface is vital to a good result. I would imagine swinging flat with upright clubs would be at odds to each other.

[bebo]

My housemate has been fighting the flat swing for over 2 years now. He's been trying quite hard but I think it'd be fair to say there's very little sucess.

IMO he actually used to swing better - It come to the point that now he's in the middle of nowhere, screw up his long game completely and probably he's getting close to give up the game.

[Jarro]

My housemate has been fighting the flat swing for over 2 years now. He's been trying quite hard but I think it'd be fair to say there's very little sucess.

IMO he actually used to swing better - It come to the point that now he's in the middle of nowhere, screw up his long game completely and probably he's getting close to give up the game.

Does that mean he's close to selling all his Tour gear ?

[andylo]

Shut up Bart!

Me give up golf? NEVER!

jarro, don't have much tour gears nowadays. The only few things I could think of is couple of R9 heads and a 200 smoothy. I probably will offload the R9s but the 200 is not going anywhere.

[goughy]

By henno a 3 foot tee and he'll be fine with his driver.

[petethepilot]

I'm no expert but a flat swing is fine if you are not manipulating the hands to get it. If a tall player rotates his full torso (Body release) through the ball, the swing can be quite flat and very effective (ie Robert Karlson). As long as the hands/arms are not whipped inside at the start of the swing and conversely come from excessively inside into the ball, there be no reason why hooks or funny ball flights should result. The important thing often overlooked is our arm length differs markedly between players. Tall person/shortish arms result in flat swing.

Look at a video of yourself Henno and consult a pro you trust! Don't listen to us.

regards,

Pete:D

[henno]

Look at a video of yourself Henno and consult a pro you trust!

Done and done, and he doesn't like it. My arms are quite long and lanky, so he wants me to try and get far more upright. Almost like a one-plane-swing movement, although he concedes that getting the club head up to the sky rather than out to my back is going to take some effort.

I'm going to hit the range soon, so I'll try that little drill razaar posted, just to get the feel of it in my head and see what my brain thinks of that position. I'll worry about the resulting ball-flight at a later date.

P.S. I hope the knee is feeling alright. I know your pain, and it's not a very enjoyable few months coming up.

[Iain]

Chopper....

[razaar]

Done and done, and he doesn't like it. My arms are quite long and lanky, so he wants me to try and get far more upright. Almost like a one-plane-swing movement, although he concedes that getting the club head up to the sky rather than out to my back is going to take some effort.

I'm going to hit the range soon, so I'll try that little drill razaar posted, just to get the feel of it in my head and see what my brain thinks of that position. I'll worry about the resulting ball-flight at a later date.

P.S. I hope the knee is feeling alright. I know your pain, and it's not a very enjoyable few months coming up.
I started this thread to motivate you to address this little hiccup.:wink:

[henno]

Having a look at my recorded swings a from a couple of months ago, it doesn't take a swing guru to work out that this looks bad at the top. Seriously bad.

http://imgur.com/toyS0l.png (http://imgur.com/toyS0.png)


Ignoring that, here is me at the top of a "reasonable" swing (what I dubbed my "ugly better" swing as opposed to above, which is "ugly bad".)

http://imgur.com/c5eG2l.png (http://imgur.com/c5eG2.png)


It looks "alright", right? But if you look at the position just before and just after the top in the above swing, there is still this crazy little hitch flatter with the wrist. I seem to somehow jag it almost back on plane in this instance, but I still don't like it. Oh, and that is ignoring the fact that I drift forward towards the target in the downswing which is a whole other issue around balance and lateral movement etc etc.

This little animation demonstrates the flat wrist movement at the top:

http://imgur.com/2zpzT.gif


So anyway, I think I need to hit about 10,000 more balls in front of a mirror and sort out the backswing. In almost all cases at the small range session I had this afternoon the more upright swing felt more powerful ("efficient" is probably the better word) but I had serious trouble getting the clubface back to the ball on plane and with any reasonable contact. But as I said in the other thread, I have to sort out the chicken before I start worrying about the egg it produces.

Sledge away, flushers.

[markTHEblake]

One plane swing advocates what might be defined as a flat swing, but I dont see that as a fault.

[henno]

That is actually what Chris Gibson wants me to get to: A one-plane type of swing. I think that's a fair and reasonable goal, considering how difficult it would be to eliminate the flatness from my swing entirely.

[Daves]

Perhaps copy Moe!?

[dc68]

Sweet another bullet in the ammo chamber!!!

"Hey mate what's with the swing? Its not as flat as it used to be."

Should be enough to put old custard nut off his game.

[henno]

Sweet another bullet in the ammo chamber!!!

Like you need another one. The magazine's already full, isn't it?

[Eag's]

Adam the position you get to in the last vid looks really good. Has Chris got you working on your posture?
I mean has he got you standing nice and tall with your arms hanging nice & relaxed?
Once you get your swing on a more upright plane & can return the club back to square more consistently, your Hcp will plummet mate :smt023

[razaar]

I saw it a little different Eags (the last vid); looked like the club was laid off and the transition to downswing moved outside the plane.

[Eag's]

I should of made myself clearer, I was referring to the first swing vid compared to the last vid & previous vid's henno has posted. Looks to be quite an improvement to me.

[dc68]

Like you need another one. The magazine's already full, isn't it?


I may keep it in the spare.

[henno]

Adam the position you get to in the last vid looks really good. Has Chris got you working on your posture?

Yep, but mainly to stop me ducking into the ball (chest/chin towards the ball) or sliding laterally towards the target. Or both. My problem is that I play my ball rather forward expecting the lateral slide, and when it doesn't happen I hit it fat. But when I do, and the ball isn't forward a mile I cold top it, or straight up blade it. I just need to pick a setup and stick with it I think.

Chris seems like a great swing coach so far. He recognises my faults (too flat, too quick, etc) as well as my positives (flexible, tall, long arms etc) and chooses small tweaks to make those faults usable within the limitations of my body frame (ie "one plane swing") rather that completely rebuilding my swing which would take more time and money than I have.

A good example is the difference between you and I. I am tall, flexible and skinny whereas you are shorter, with more muscle with less flexibility but more power. You swing upright then inside, whereas I come out wide and flat. I could probably never have a swing like yours. At least not without years of work and a lot of time and money. Even my dodgy swing could get me from 19 to 10 with a plan, a few tweaks and a bit of work. (And less of a custard brain.)

[henno]

I saw it a little different Eags (the last vid)

I'm not sure f you saw it before Ray, but here is the full swing of that animation.

ZOcHvGJqYZ0

[goughy]

You're swings not too flat until you lose your club during your follow through like Tiger but you hit someone in the ankle!

[Eag's]

Glad you are happy with Chris mate, stick with him and you will reap the benefits. The next lesson I have with him is to teach me how to fade the bloody ball ;)

[BrisVegas]

what's wrong with that swing? you 'could' **** your wrists a bit more so it doesn't look so laid off, but otherwise i reckon your swing is good.

[markTHEblake]

That swing clip looks pretty good, not flat at all and I can see some One plane concepts on the backswing, but it looks nothing like that pink frog in the blender I was watching at the pelican waters driving range last sunday.

[henno]

That swing clip looks pretty good, not flat at all and I can see some One plane concepts on the backswing, but it looks nothing like that pink frog in the blender I was watching at the pelican waters driving range last sunday.

Here's me at my flatty best (worst):

LTAIQkj9UHo

[Johnny Canuck]

Here's me at my flatty best (worst:)

LTAIQkj9UHo

You need Aldo's fridge. It sorted out his flat swing.

[Iain]

I thought I had a flat backswing!!!

[markTHEblake]

Henno, if you are trying "one plane" stuff your shoulders are turning too flat.

If you freeze the 2nd vid at top of backswing and draw a line to the ground you shall see it hits the base of the camera stand.

As this bloke has been teaching you this stuff, look at getting the DVD set "Plane Truth for Golfers" available at your favourite online store....
The DVD shows the way to check your shoulder plane, which i shall try to explain briefly.

the line from the shoulders at top of backswing should point to the ground somewhere between the ball, and one club length from the ball.

Hope that makes sense, if not, i'll scan a page from the book

[razaar]

Blakey if you do that move with a posture that is upright wouldn't that promote a reverse pivot? Check out this vid of Zac Johnson who is a classic one plane swinger. Notice how the plane of his shoulder turn is in sync with his upper body posture. The shoulder plane gives the inside element to the swing while the arm plane gives the up and down movement. The arms and shoulders may get on the same plane at the top of the backswing and then they move again on different planes.
http://www.pgatour.com/swingplex/02/40/24/index.html

[3oneday]

Goodness Raz, it can wait mate :shock: !!!


:lol:

[adlo]

I am concerned with how well Henno dresses, for a chopper.

[LarryLong]

I am concerned with how well Henno dresses, for a chopper.

:smt038

Nobody seemed to mention that the 'ugly bad' ball seemed to go pretty straight. I reckon all these blokes are just trying to ruin you with information. :)

[3oneday]

I'm sorry, but a "layoff" is where you get to the top of the swing and the first movement thereafter, the club falls..... Henno looks like his first movement is actually over the top.

[henno]

I'm sorry, but a "layoff" is where you get to the top of the swing and the first movement thereafter, the club falls..... Henno looks like his first movement is actually over the top.

It most certainly is. If you look at the second swing (the really bad one) if I don't come over the top I almost can't get to the ball from my position at the top. In that instance all is lost at the takeaway, as the first movement is open and flat and way inside.

Ray and MTB, you are both pretty much right. For it to work, I need to have good posture as it all depends on twisting around my spine and hips more than the work done with my wrist and arms... or something. I have already drawn lines all over both swings, and yes that is exactly the point that Chris made: I need to get the shaft pointing a foot or so past the ball, not three metres. Shoulder turn is everything in a one-plane-swing, apparently.

[razaar]

Goodness Raz, it can wait mate :shock: !!!


:lol:
Had just walked in the door following work and a workout & didn't feel tired laddy. But thanx for noticing.:wink:

[razaar]

It most certainly is. If you look at the second swing (the really bad one) if I don't come over the top I almost can't get to the ball from my position at the top. In that instance all is lost at the takeaway, as the first movement is open and flat and way inside.

Ray and MTB, you are both pretty much right. For it to work, I need to have good posture as it all depends on twisting around my spine and hips more than the work done with my wrist and arms... or something. I have already drawn lines all over both swings, and yes that is exactly the point that Chris made: I need to get the shaft pointing a foot or so past the ball, not three metres. Shoulder turn is everything in a one-plane-swing, apparently.
The big danger of a too flat swing is the right shoulder has a tendancy to push the arms into the downswing.

If he is telling you this be sure to ask him why and then tell me.

[Hux]

Henno

After playing wth you and watching you duff 75% of your second shots I think you need to adjust the lie of your irons from 2* upriight to 20*flat:-)

[henno]

That's just Murphy's Law. I couldn't get off the tee the whole champs weekend, but hit my irons well. The reverse was true on Sunday. Probably because I was trying to smash everything into the wind, or maximise the downwind advantage.

C'est la vie.

[Pippolo]

Flat is not necessarily wrong. Hogan, Knudson, Norman, O'Grady, Snead, Trevino, Palmer used very flat swings and they are some of the best ball strikers that ever lived (Hogan and Moe Norman being the best).

[grandmasterb]

To all the swing gurus out there, without going into massive detail what is the easiest way to help combat a "flat swing" ???

[markTHEblake]

To all the swing gurus out there, without going into massive detail what is the easiest way to help combat a "flat swing" ???



get a lesson. To begin with how do you know your flat swing is bad, and if you fix it yourself how would you know that you are not fixing a fault with a fault.

[grandmasterb]

get a lesson. To begin with how do you know your flat swing is bad, and if you fix it yourself how would you know that you are not fixing a fault with a fault.

Unfortunately its the result from a lesson. To quote razaar "GMB..you have the flatest swing I have ever seen." so at a guess it was pretty flat :lol:

[razaar]

To all the swing gurus out there, without going into massive detail what is the easiest way to help combat a "flat swing" ???
The correction is relevant to why your swing is flat. Can you articulate what your swing feels like. Do you start the backswing with your hands? Does the club move outside the ball target line from the start and get laid off?

The normal correction is a one piece takeaway with the upper chest kicking off the backswing. When the club shaft is parrallel with the ground the thumbs will be pointing towards the sky; this is where you start c0ck8ing your wrists with the butt of the shaft pointing bwtween your feet and the ball/target line. Keep turning and raise the left shoulder to touch or cover the chin. Remember you have a right arm that acts as a support and a brace for the left arm. Flat swingers tend to let the right elbow get too far behind the right hip in the backswing.
The thought is turn and lift, drop and turn. I thought we covered this before.

[virge666]

Am I happy with the flatness of my backswing? Hell no!

I have a few drills I am trying to do to correct it (refer: here (http://ozgolf.net/forums/showpost.php?p=371506&postcount=78)), but hoisting the club so high just feel foreign to me.

Henno,

Is it too late for me to jump in a get a bit of action ?

[Yossarian]

Jump in virge! Henno loves homo!

[henno]

Henno,

Is it too late for me to jump in a get a bit of action ?

'Bout time you showed up. Sledge away.

[grandmasterb]

The correction is relevant to why your swing is flat. Can you articulate what your swing feels like. Do you start the backswing with your hands? Does the club move outside the ball target line from the start and get laid off?

The normal correction is a one piece takeaway with the upper chest kicking off the backswing. When the club shaft is parrallel with the ground the thumbs will be pointing towards the sky; this is where you start c0ck8ing your wrists with the butt of the shaft pointing bwtween your feet and the ball/target line. Keep turning and raise the left shoulder to touch or cover the chin. Remember you have a right arm that acts as a support and a brace for the left arm. Flat swingers tend to let the right elbow get too far behind the right hip in the backswing.
The thought is turn and lift, drop and turn. I thought we covered this before.

Its actually hard to describe in words as when i swing it "feels" great but obviously the outcome isn't that flash :?

[virge666]

'Bout time you showed up. Sledge away.

Cool beans,

Because I don't think you have a swing plane that is too flat. and I would question your motives into changing said swing plane.

Your swing plane looks dead set perferct for a one-plane swing pattern.

So the only real question is is one of sequence... and that next question is

How do you start the backswing ?
or
What do you do for the transition ?
or
What is your first move down ?

Have you a video from the front ?

[henno]

How do you start the backswing ?

Now you're talking (and therein lies the "real" issue). My poor swing starts with a flip/twist of the hands open, low and inside on the backswing.


What do you do for the transition ?

I don't really "think" about it, but in the above case I usually pick the club up and throw it out and OTT, or keep it stupidly laid out and try to salvage something. This tends to lead with the hosel though, and shanks abound.


What is your first move down ?

No idea. I would have normally said a casting action, but I've been back on the hooky wagon for the past few months since those vids were taken, so I'd have to assume that is no longer the case. (I do get the occasional shitty pull though, which shows that the OTT move is still in there somewhere.)


Have you a video from the front ?

Yep. The lateral movement makes me see fat shots and cold tops in my nightmares. :mrgreen:

CiU81mTiuk4

[Jono]

Henno, why do you have the ball way forward in your stance for an iron shot?

[MegaWatty]

A few of us saw Scott Strange out today, and he seemed to have have a pretty flat swing. Hits it alright just quietly.

If he's not an Ozgolfer, then I guess this will be considered a threadjack.

[adlo]

He had a very flat plane. One plane swing seems to produce very powerful ball striking.

[Jono]

I'm sorry, but a "layoff" is where you get to the top of the swing and the first movement thereafter, the club falls..... Henno looks like his first movement is actually over the top.

I thought the term "lay off" just referred to the top of the backswing position, where the club points left of target (or right handers) when the club is parallel to the ground.

[Jono]

Flat is not necessarily wrong. Hogan, Knudson, Norman, O'Grady, Snead, Trevino, Palmer used very flat swings and they are some of the best ball strikers that ever lived (Hogan and Moe Norman being the best).

I assume you mean Moe Norman, not Greg Norman. ;)

I don't agree that Snead or O'Grady had a flat swing.

[adlo]

What type of swing did Greg Normal have?

[henno]

Henno, why do you have the ball way forward in your stance for an iron shot?

It's a 5-iron, not that it matters. And refer here:


Yep, but mainly to stop me ducking into the ball (chest/chin towards the ball) or sliding laterally towards the target. Or both. My problem is that I play my ball rather forward expecting the lateral slide, and when it doesn't happen I hit it fat. But when I do, and the ball isn't forward a mile I cold top it, or straight up blade it. I just need to pick a setup and stick with it I think.

[virge666]

Henno, why do you have the ball way forward in your stance for an iron shot?


Look sat his swing and see how little movement he has in the legs and hips . . . the ball has to be in front otherwise he would never get to it.



He had a very flat plane. One plane swing seems to produce very powerful ball striking.

No it doesn't - they all produce powerfull ball flights - they just have to be done correctly.

=====

Back on point.

Go back to the range tomorrow and I want you to practice by leave the hands behind the body on the downswing... work with me on this.

I need you to start using your shoulders in a much more aggressive way, in other words - leave everything else as it is and unwind the shoulders as much and as hard as you can on the downswing. I want to see you a bit more OVER THE BALL at setup as well.

But really I need you to go and get a copy of the "The plane truth for golfers DVD" Buy it on eBay for SFA and use it to study your one plane swing.

In all honesty - it will make you a much better player than you are now. That downswing is a bit of a mish mash and by working on a one plane technique - you can turn that into some very good

Enjoy

[Jono]

It's a 5-iron, not that it matters. And refer here:

Henno, a topped shot doesn't usually happen because the ball is too far back. In fact, it happens because the bottom of your swing arc is BEHIND the ball (ie. ball too far forward) and you catch the ball on the way up. Thus, you can top it OR hit it fat with the same swing fault.

[Jono]

Look sat his swing and see how little movement he has in the legs and hips . . . the ball has to be in front otherwise he would never get to it.


I don't follow. What does lack of lower body movement require forward ball placement? If anything, golfers with big leg drive (eg Nicklaus) are more likely to require forward ball placement.

To me, it seems henno lunges with the upper body.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4803/hennoaddress.jpg

Note address head position.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8033/henno.jpg

Head hasn't moved much at all ... a bit stack and tiltish.

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/7572/henno2.jpg

Head has moved at least 3 inches forward.

[markTHEblake]

What type of swing did Greg Normal have?

was flipping through "Shark attack" the other day and the swing sequences strike me as being distinctively a two plane swing.

[Pippolo]

I assume you mean Moe Norman, not Greg Norman. ;)

I don't agree that Snead or O'Grady had a flat swing.

http://www.historicgolfphotos.com/content/store/products/11078/3/11057.jpg

http://www.lagpressure.com/lagpressure/snead1.jpg

They look pretty flat to me.;)

[razaar]

Pip every advanced golfer gets to this position because coming into the ball the swing must follow the plane of the club shaft at address. None of the players on your list have the arm plane under the shoulder plane at the top. The only tour player that I can recall who did is Barry Lane from GB and he changed it to a more conventional arn plane later in his career.

[Jono]

They look pretty flat to me.;)

The flatness of the swing usually refers to the top of the backswing position, not how they make the plane shift from turned shoulder plane to the elbow plane coming into impact.

For example, I don't think you would call John Daly's swing flat. But if you take the picture of him mid downswing where he shifts planes, he'd look flat too.

Have you got any pics of these guys at the top of the backswing?

[Jono]

I found one of Snead.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3885/sneadtop.jpg

He's perfectly on the turned shoulder plane (as per TGM). He's not flat.

[Iain]

Henno, a topped shot doesn't usually happen because the ball is too far back. In fact, it happens because the bottom of your swing arc is BEHIND the ball (ie. ball too far forward) and you catch the ball on the way up. Thus, you can top it OR hit it fat with the same swing fault.

But the bottom of the swing arc is below the left shoulder.

[just]

But the bottom of the swing arc is below the left shoulder.
Which is Jono's point. The bottom of the arc should be just in front of the ball, which it can't be if the ball is too far forward.

[Iain]

Which is Jono's point. The bottom of the arc should be just in front of the ball, which it can't be if the ball is too far forward.

Have a look at the address picture, draw a line from Henno's left shoulder straight down, and it's just infront of the ball.

[Iain]

Henno's got a very narrow stance for a 5 iron, which is why the ball looks further forward than what it is. The ball is pretty much below the logo on his shirt which I think is just about perfect.

[razaar]

But the bottom of the swing arc is below the left shoulder.
It would be if one swung with only the left arm but we don't so the bottom of the swing is directly below the pivot point and where that point is at contact.

[razaar]

Our prospective champ has no concept of how to start the downswing, if he did he would kick all our arses.

[Iain]

I'm not sure what the post you quoted of mine Raz has to do with your reply?? Mine was mentioning his stance width, nothing about how flat his swing is??

[razaar]

Sorry mate I started on the stance issue and decided on this line of thought.

[Iain]

No probs Raz!!

[Jono]

But the bottom of the swing arc is below the left shoulder.

Iain, not many weekend hackers bottom out below the left shoulder. You need a late release to do that. Looking at Henno's swing, the only way he gets to the ball is with the upper body lunge. If he kept his head back, he would bottom out 3 inches behind the ball.

IMO, he would be better off putting the ball 1-2 inches behind where it is now and working on staying behind it. More powerful and you tend to come more from the inside this way.

Once Henno's swing improves and he develps a late release, he can put the ball more forward.

[Jono]

Here you go.

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3627/hennoimpact.jpg

Even with the head lunging forward, his club and left arm has straightened out about 2-3 inches behind the ball.

[3oneday]

Henno, I have a suggestion and I haven't clicked play, just in case your moving image moves me.

Just go and f u c king hit it.



There you go, hope this helps.

[Iain]

Even with the head lunging forward, his club and left arm has straightened out about 2-3 inches behind the ball.

So he's flipped at it? Surely the clubhead is going to keep going down until the left arm is vertical? At which point it will start to come up and in.

[Iain]

Good suggestion 3....

[Jarro]

Settle the debate for us then will you henno.

Try hitting some irons with the ball a little further back in your stance and let us know if your ballstriking improves.

Cheers :mrgreen:

[grandmasterb]

Henno, I have a suggestion and I haven't clicked play, just in case your moving image moves me.

Just go and f u c king hit it.


There you go, hope this helps.

As Tin Cup would say "grip it and rip it" :mrgreen:

[Jono]

So he's flipped at it? Surely the clubhead is going to keep going down until the left arm is vertical? At which point it will start to come up and in.

Yep, another case of the flip. By the time his left arm is vertical, his clubhead should be slightly on the way up.

[3oneday]

Settle the debate for us then will you henno.

Try hitting some irons with the ball a little further back in your stance and let us know if your ballstriking improves.

Cheers :mrgreen:
thanks Risky 8)

[virge666]

So run me through what we just did here ?

We showed Henno who has one of the most blatent single plane backswings ever on video and said it was too flat

To prove our point we compared Henno's swing plane to a couple of old farts from the 16th century who were two plane swing patterns and said "See, Henno is flatter - he has to be more upright like these bloke with different swing patterns"

Then we said something about ball position being too far forward and maybe we should move it back - because that is why you are flipping it. This included the low point discussion, where someone bright spark said that under left shoulder was not the low point because your right arm is holding the club aswell. ????? WTF !

And in the end we said lets move the ball back and see if that changes your swing plane...

Have I got that about right ?

[senecio]

Pretty close I reckon.

[grandmasterb]

So run me through what we just did here ?

We showed Henno who has one of the most blatent single plane backswings ever on video and said it was too flat

To prove our point we compared Henno's swing plane to a couple of old farts from the 16th century who were two plane swing patterns and said "See, Henno is flatter - he has to be more upright like these bloke with different swing patterns"

Then we said something about ball position being too far forward and maybe we should move it back - because that is why you are flipping it. This included the low point discussion, where someone bright spark said that under left shoulder was not the low point because your right arm is holding the club aswell. ????? WTF !

And in the end we said lets move the ball back and see if that changes your swing plane...

Have I got that about right ?

Seems to be on the money, do you have any other conflicting or wrong info you would like to add virge???

[virge666]

Seems to be on the money, do you have any other conflicting or wrong info you would like to add virge???


Nope - just making sure it wasn't the morpheine.

As you were gentlemen.

[razaar]

Seems somebody likes your swing plane Henno...maybe he should copy it.

[Jono]

Then we said something about ball position being too far forward and maybe we should move it back - because that is why you are flipping it.

Forward ball position doesn't cause a flip. But it makes the flipper's result worse.

IMO, Henno should
a) bring the ball back an inch or two
b) which will make him less likely lunge his upper body forward
c) staying behind the shot will make him more likely to come from the inside
d) which will cut out the gay slice
e) which means he can stop wearing his pink outfit.

;)

[Iain]

So run me through what we just did here ?

We showed Henno who has one of the most blatent single plane backswings ever on video and said it was too flat

To prove our point we compared Henno's swing plane to a couple of old farts from the 16th century who were two plane swing patterns and said "See, Henno is flatter - he has to be more upright like these bloke with different swing patterns"

Then we said something about ball position being too far forward and maybe we should move it back - because that is why you are flipping it. This included the low point discussion, where someone bright spark said that under left shoulder was not the low point because your right arm is holding the club aswell. ????? WTF !

And in the end we said lets move the ball back and see if that changes your swing plane...

Have I got that about right ?

Can I just point out Virge that I only got involved in the forward ball position argument, and I have no problem with Henno's ball position....

[Eag's]

How about we just let his coach sort him out end of story. Chris Gibson knows his stuff and will get Adam on the right track soon enough.

[virge666]

Seems somebody likes your swing plane Henno...maybe he should copy it.


Hmmm...

Yes I am just so jealous of a static backswing where the hands suck the club a mile inside with absolutley no body action what so ever.

Followed by a huge OTT movement back to the ball holding the club open and underneath through impact to stop the ball going violently left resulting in either a weak slice or other concontion based on what the hands want to do at impact.

Dead set love that.

But yeah - move the ball back - that will make a huge diffence.

[virge666]

Forward ball position doesn't cause a flip. But it makes the flipper's result worse.

IMO, Henno should
a) bring the ball back an inch or two
b) which will make him less likely lunge his upper body forward
c) staying behind the shot will make him more likely to come from the inside
d) which will cut out the gay slice
e) which means he can stop wearing his pink outfit.

;)

For one to stay behind the shot - one needs to get behind the shot in the first place.

Seriously guys - you only need to se the first two feet of the backswing to see the problem.

Compare his swing to Zig's swing... same swing planes, there is about 4 to choose from.

[virge666]

How about we just let his coach sort him out end of story. Chris Gibson knows his stuff and will get Adam on the right track soon enough.


Fair call - not half as much fun - but fair.

[henno]

I just got home, and you guys are so mean. I'm going to cry myself to sleep tonight.

Oh, and the gay fade hasn't been around so much these days. I'm lucky to have one or two per round when I get all stupid and open and have a big swipe at the ball. It's the left that's been the concern of late. (Like I said, I probably need to update these swing vids, but I assure you that the flat takeaway is still there.)

I'm aware of the flip, I'm aware of the forward movement towards impact, I'm aware of the way open handsy takeaway, and I'm aware of my gay shorts. I just need to tackle one by one, starting at the handsy open backswing.

[zigwah]

i too have come to fear the left lately, my reasoning behind this is that when this happens i'm still coming ott, but because my posture and shoulder turn are better i get a pull or pull hook.

My shit shot is still the big cut, but more often now the bad shot is a fat shot that go no where with a draw.,

[razaar]

How about we just let his coach sort him out end of story. Chris Gibson knows his stuff and will get Adam on the right track soon enough.
Is this the Gibson at Lakelands who did his time at Keperra?

[Jarro]

Is this the Gibson at Lakelands who did his time at Keperra?

No this is the Gibson at Vic. Park.

[Courty]

I'm aware of the flip, I'm aware of the forward movement towards impact, I'm aware of the way open handsy takeaway, and I'm aware of my gay shorts. I just need to tackle one by one, starting at the handsy open backswing.

For the benefit of your playing partners, you should start with the shorts. ;)

[razaar]

No this is the Gibson at Vic. Park.
Thanks, Henno should have plenty to discuss with him at the next session.:D

[markTHEblake]

But yeah - move the ball back - that will make a huge diffence.

That morphein has really kicked in now :shock:

thanks for reminding me why I wont ever post my swing here.:D

[Hux]

As a certified Ozgolf chopper like my mate Henno I would like to thank him for being the unasked for target of your swing analysis - keeps the pressure off me :-)

And before you start Raz - yes I am working on controlling the reverse pivot and I think I hit maybe 6 good straight drives yesterday which is a big improvement. Shortened the backswing to no more than parallel (feels like a 1/3 swing) and a better posture at address leading to more static legs.
Will see how it goes on Bribie today.

[razaar]

You're safe Hux..made my last comment on the forum about the golf swing period. Nothing to do with forum members ,everything to do with SMS's signature about lurkers.

[virge666]

That morphein has really kicked in now :shock:

thanks for reminding me why I wont ever post my swing here.:D

Yeah - I bit too hard on that one... :)

[henno]

A few more recent swings. I'll probably cross-post this in the "Flattest swing on Ozgolf" thread... because it is.

It is worth noting that the wind is howling from the right in these vids, as evidenced by the flag on the right flapping and bending its ring off (best seen in the real-time vids). Also, the camera was sitting on top of a bin that was moving around (thanks Michelle for breaking the tripod), so nothing is perfectly aligned DTL, horizontally or vertically. Also, perspective appears a little wacky; blame the dodgy PAS camera I was using.

Slo-mo shots first:

7-iron slow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wKpuXkzRAQ)
3-wood slow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNBCQxFh9Q0)
Driver slow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUVOT50pLpA)

The same vids, but in real time with sound and a few other dodgy swings are here:

7-iron (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3zcrvgs1Zs)
3-wood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLVd_bSMurA)
Driver (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQWZGotnuk)

As usual, sledge away.

[Iain]

So have you ever tried just swinging more upright??

[henno]

So have you ever tried just swinging more upright??

I have, and the results aren't good. For some reason my brain says "something's not right here" and my wrists lay the shaft over with the shaft pointing away from the back of my head rather than down the line (hard to explain, but almost like an arched and twisted left wrist at the top). From there I'm lost, as I have to unarch the wrist to jag the club back on plane if I'm lucky but generally by that stage my hips have fired and the body is uncoiling and all is lost.

[Iain]

Fair enough then!! I should put my swing up, I think we're reasonably similar, in at least the one I have on video. Bent over a lot and swinging quite flat, although not quite "henno" flat.

[henno]

My medium-term goal is just to go from "henno" flat to regularly flat, and hopefully gain some consistency along the way.

[henno]

Rickie Fowler, you legend.

http://i.imgur.com/EM7Pyl.jpg

[Eag's]

I never thought I would see another one as flat as yours mate ;)