GPS carts - are they legal?

[Jono]

Just wondering ... are GPS systems legal for comp play? Few golf courses these days (including Brookwater) have GPS carts. I think these things are great ... like having your own caddie. Does anybody know whether these are legal under R&A and USGA?

[Fishman Dan]

Tour players don't use carts?

If a tournament is on, i guess they would all get one, or none of them would? At the NSW open some caddy's used buggies to cart around the clubs.

[Jono]

Can't understand why they don't allow GPS ... it's like having a good caddie, no? :?: Imagine having a yardage sprinkler next to your ball ... wherever your ball lands! :wink:

[AndyP]

If everyone playing in the comp has access to it, then it shouldn't be against the rules. As a result, the CCR would take care of the h/cap too.

[McMw]

Can't understand why they don't allow GPS ... it's like having a good caddie, no? :?: Imagine having a yardage sprinkler next to your ball ... wherever your ball lands! :wink:


question is - does everyone else have access to the same benefits???

I'm not sure what they do in Singapore - I've heard that some of the clubs that runs GPS on (all) their carts let it be for the members comp - some clubs disable the system (which I agree with)...

[Fishman Dan]

Can't understand why they don't allow GPS ... it's like having a good caddie, no? :?: Imagine having a yardage sprinkler next to your ball ... wherever your ball lands! :wink:

The benefit with GPS is that it also tells you distance to front/back of the green, water/bunker carries... groups in front :twisted:

So there's a lot more to it than a rough guide to the middle of the green ;)

[markTHEblake]

People have been lobbying the R&A for a long time about this, but i suspect they have commercial interest at heart. They argue that if Yardage books are legal why not GPS.

The R&A has made it clear they wont be budging on changing the rules to accomadate GPS.

[damoocow]

burn all carts - solve the problem - make people walk - solve the problem.

damoocow

[Jono]

question is - does everyone else have access to the same benefits???



If they were willing to spend the money on a GPS device ... :wink:

I guess you can argue that not everyone can afford a professional caddie (which is legal). If I could have Fanny attend my bag, I bet I could cut down a couple of strokes ... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Jono]

The benefit with GPS is that it also tells you distance to front/back of the green, water/bunker carries... groups in front

So there's a lot more to it than a rough guide to the middle of the green .



Yeah, but a caddie can do more. He/she can give you yardages, carry your bay, clean your clubs, give you emotional support, tell you to tuck your shirt in so that your big gut doesn't show on the followthrough ... :wink: :lol: :lol:

So, why is having a caddie legal? :?

[Jono]

They have handheld GPS golf aids now damo.



Precisely ... :wink:

[McMw]

jono - do you really believe that having all that information available to you at the cart (or caddy) is gonna make you a better player all off a sudden???

IMO, it's a little bit more than just "I didn't have the right distance".... :wink:

[BrisVegas]

Regarding Brookwater... The GPS is allowed for members/visitors comps, but for the NEC Master of Amateurs recently they disabled the system. Pretty sure they disable it for any major events

Interestingly, Brookwater offers the GPS kits to install on your own cart for those members who want it. Not sure the cost, but bet it aint cheap...

[Bruce]

To me, this is just stick in the mud stuff.

If someone was using a super-accurate yardage book, done on grid paper with every tree and landmark marked, no one would bat an eyelid. They would probably even let you use a pocket calculator if you were having trouble with doing pythagorean calculations in your head.

Do the same thing electronically though and suddenly it's a big deal.

Busy courses should be jumping at the opportunities. No more looking for a mark and then pacing things out and then starting your shot routine. You get to your ball and you play your shot. That could save a lot of time when multiplied by 4 players and 18 holes.

www.pga.com uses it for all the shotlink data.

[markTHEblake]

Do the same thing electronically though and suddenly it's a big deal.

Do you understand why the rule prohibits GPS?.

Lets face it, the only golf clubs that have an interest in GPS is the resorts, as it helps with management of the traffic (they know where you are), thus it helps get bums on seats, and they make more money.

A members course is not going to invest in it becuase the cost is so high, few clubs can afford that, and secondly, they are not trying to cram 400 social players a day onto the course.

Therefore if R&A changes the rules to allow GPS, in competitions there will be a select few that have access to it, and they will have a huge advantage over the rest.

[markTHEblake]

And in case you didnt know, Emerald Lakes has a handheld GPS system, cost is about $10 per round. Although the accuracy is somewhat dubious, we used it to set the Pins one night and the readings for some of the greens were out by up to 5m.

ie we measured a green front to back with GPS and then by pacing. 5metres was a big error when a green is only 20m long.

One of the guys is a surveyor, he said that most of the commonly used GPS systems are not accurate enough to meet a golfers needs. I forgot how much he said the margin for error is, but maybe 10 metres

G69, you might be able to verify that?

[Bruce]

Do the same thing electronically though and suddenly it's a big deal.

Do you understand why the rule prohibits GPS?.

Lets face it, the only golf clubs that have an interest in GPS is the resorts, as it helps with management of the traffic (they know where you are), thus it helps get bums on seats, and they make more money.

A members course is not going to invest in it becuase the cost is so high, few clubs can afford that, and secondly, they are not trying to cram 400 social players a day onto the course.

Therefore if R&A changes the rules to allow GPS, in competitions there will be a select few that have access to it, and they will have a huge advantage over the rest.

How is equity an argument against GPS? Only a select few have access to various other "premium" items and equipment that can give them an advantage over other golfers - how is GPS different?

We are only really talking about data and its' presentation. I say the only difference between a yardage book and a GPS is the method of presentation. Paper vs LCD. The granularity of the data being presented is irrelevant.

And you're right. Most GPS is accurate to 10m.

[markTHEblake]

How is equity an argument against GPS?

virtually everyone has a driver, putter and a bunch of clubs in between. not everybody will have a GPS system.

your asking for the R&A to make a rule that will benefit a minority, i doubt they are interested in doing that.


I say the only difference between a yardage book and a GPS is the method of presentation.

Unfortunately, the R&A says there difference is much more than that. A yardage book only gives general information, that is the same info available to everyone. A GPS gives specific information that is available to only one person.

dont mistake me for someone who is against GPS, I am all for it. I am only referring to why the R&A doesnt permit it.

[AndyP]

One of the guys is a surveyor, he said that most of the commonly used GPS systems are not accurate enough to meet a golfers needs. I forgot how much he said the margin for error is, but maybe 10 metres
When we played at Hope Island recently, there was a general agreement that the GPS was not accurate. And it was more than 10m.