manipulate handicapp

[Russell]

a couple of weeks ago we held a four ball best ball event.some pretty good scores were returned and i set about handicapping them(4 hours on a sat night). i went through the guide lines and double checked them all.
posted the results up ,only to have three members say "how dare i not tell them first that it was going to be handicapped,he lost 2.4 shots, c grade down to b with no chance of his much loved inter club c grade matchplay.
anyway he started crying that if he had known he would have adjusted the card differently.
this member has clearly said he would manipulate his card, in my eyes his handicap is still to high for his playing ability
do you think i should adjust his handicap on susspision or just let it go
id like your thoughts
ps.for clarification he said that as he putted out first ,his score went down first,if h"d have known about the handicap system he would have done the card differently

[WBennett]

He's a cheat. Use your discretion to take another shot off him just because you have the power....

[zacdullard]

Let him whinge. He deserves to have lost the shots so he can't have a say in the matter.

[Russell]

[quote=wbennett;361564]He's a cheat. Use your discretion to take another shot off him just because you have the power....[/quote

[mike]

Russell I think there are certain guidelines for handicapping on suspicion. There's a process you'd have to go through which I think involves Golf Queensland. I've heard Mareeba are in the process of doing the same.

2.4 shots lost in a 4bbb. Holy cow. How many times was he on the card?

[mike]

How is Julie by the way? Been a bit quiet lately.

[Johnny Canuck]

he has just admitted that he would cheat to manipulate his handicap.

i think a club "adjustment" is needed to correct the handicap even further.

[Russell]

Russell I think there are certain guidelines for handicapping on suspicion. There's a process you'd have to go through which I think involves Golf Queensland. I've heard Mareeba are in the process of doing the same.

2.4 shots lost in a 4bbb. Holy cow. How many times was he on the card?

thats the thing that aroused my suspission. i had our matchplay captain come to me and say this member cant be handicapped because he only appears 11 times(used to be 12 but now 9 )so he must have manipulated the card for that result.so i think that he thought he beat the system but didnt know the new rules.by the way the matchplay captain was his partner!!

he appeared 10 times with 3 points =30 1 with 4 =34 add 7 times with 1 1/2 points=44.5 round down=44,ccr36,8x.3=2.4 roughly from memory so dont quote me.

[Ferrins]

Sucked in to him for bending the rules for so long that now it's come back to slap him on the butt. I think you should keep a record of any comment he makes in relation to you both directly and as hear say. He is only confirming his guilt. The thing about this is that it's not cheating but actually fraudulent behaviour.

[3oneday]

He should be suspended for cheating, 34 points in 11 holes ?

Either he is a cheat on his handicap or he can't count. People like that should be suspended and made an example of in my opinion.

[Scottt]

Sounds like he needs a date with the board and a holiday from the club.

[LarryLong]

I'm constantly amazed by how many stories you hear about stuff like this.

If you're up for a fight about it, I would take it to the club's next meeting and ask the committee if they condone this sort of attitude to handicaps within the club.

Either that, or create an A4 sized poster of the bloke with his quote underneath his photo and put it up in the rooms somewhere. :)

[WBennett]

We had a bloke turn up for the Holden Scramble a few years ago off 27. His team shot net 51 or something and won by a ton.

A week later he had 50+ points - then someone recognised him as a former single figure marker from elsewhere.

Guys like that suck.

[Ned]

Russell,

As the Club Handicapper you can only make recommendations.

The following is the process for recommending adjustments.

Previously the rules were if you were on the card 14 times (and changed a couple of more times as well) then you were subject to handicapping, now if you have 42 points or more equivalent in a 4BBB then players must be handicapped (Golf Australia directive I believe)

Read through the process for handicapping on suspicion etc, as it’s not just a matter of personal opinion or belief. The good thing about Golflink is that you can easily export the player’s data to give you an average of a number of playing information. Do this yourself first before you raise it “officially’.

Otherwise if the player is actioned and appeals producing significant evidence that he/she has been penalised incorrectly then you and the Club are open to all sorts of ramifications etc.

9. Generally – Re-Assessment of Handicaps
RE-ASSESSMENT OF AUSTRALIAN MEN’S HANDICAP
(A) Handicaps are intended to enable players to compete in handicap events on even terms. When a player is showing better form
than their handicap or is showing an increased interest in playing better golf but is not returning cards which lead to an
automatic reduction in handicap and the improvement, current ability, or some other justifiable circumstances make it apparent
to the Handicap Manager/Committee of any Club of which the player is a member that the player is over-handicapped, their
handicap may be reduced. This should not be a penalty for lack of scores but solely to provide uniformity in handicapping
among all who play handicap golf.
(B) A player's handicap may also be increased for players who may be recovering from injuries, illness or other justifiable reason.
Such alterations may be effected at any time because the circumstances which give rise to this unusual step may be such as to
require fairly prompt action in fairness to all concerned.
(C) When a player's returns give rise to suspicion they may be attempting to "manipulate a handicap", or are in serious breach of
this System or the Rules of Golf or Etiquette (as contained in the Rules of Golf booklet), the Home Club any Club of which the
player is a member is empowered to investigate the player’s performances and, if considered warranted, temporarily suspend
their Australian Men’s Handicap.
(D) A decision to increase, decrease or suspend a player's handicap under this Section must be ratified by the General Committee
(Board of Directors) of the club which is taking such action player's Home Club.
(E) Notification of a decision to increase, decrease or suspend a player's handicap under this Section must be forwarded by the
Club taking such action to the relevant State Association (and, if the Club taking such action is not the player’s Home
Club, the club taking such action must also immediately notify the player’s Home Club). Such notification must include
copies of the accumulated information on which the decision was based. In all cases it is the Home Club that is responsible for
making the adjustment to Golf Link (or other handicap record system maintained by the Home Club).
(In the event that it is not the Home Club that has made the decision to take such action, the Home Club will be
obligated to immediately adjust the player’s handicap record in accordance with the direction of the Club that has
made the decision. The Home Club may appeal the decision to the State Association, however any such appeal must
not delay the amendment of the player’s handicap record to have it reflect the determination of the other Club. Once
such advice has been forwarded to the Home Club, any competition committee should consider the figure contained in
this advice to be the player’s current Australian Men’s Handicap.)
(F) Should the State Association or Golf Australia, on inquiry, be satisfied that a player's Australian Men’s Handicap has not been
determined in accordance with the Golf Australia Handicapping System or that the player has acted in serious breach of this
System or the Rules of Golf or otherwise detrimentally to the best interests of the game, it may withdraw that player's Australian
Men’s Handicap.
(G) The State Association or Golf Australia, on inquiry, may amend or re-instate a player’s Australian Men’s Handicap. A decision of
the Golf Australia Handicapping & Course Rating Committee will be final.
(H) Implementation Conditions: The following conditions are to assist clubs in implementing this Section and to provide uniformity in
handicapping among all who play handicap golf:
H.i The General Committee (Board of Directors) must accumulate data, cards, scores, competition results, that would indicate
handicap adjustments are necessary.
H.ii The General Committee (Board of Directors) must as a body, make a decision to increase or decrease a member’s
handicap as indicated by this Section of the Golf Australia Handicapping System.
H.iii No one person or group of persons, other than the General Committee (Board of Directors) has the power to increase or
decrease a member’s handicap when exercising a Club’s authority under this Section.
H.iv At no time can the General Committee (Board of Directors) ever “freeze” (or “cap”) a member’s handicap that is being
calculated in accordance with the Golf Australia Handicapping System, at a particular figure.
H.v Appropriate letters for use by clubs are available from State Associations wishing to implement this Section. The first letter
advises the member that their handicap is to be reviewed due to better than reflected, or otherwise, performances. The
second letter advises of the newly approved handicap.

[Webster]

Some players just score better in fourballs because there is less pressure. It doesn't mean they are cheating (although the bloke referred to in the original post is very suss)

[solarman]

Russ, he sounds pretty sus to me.
I cannot stand guys who manipulate scores.
You are cheating others and not only that people question your character every round after that and see you in a different light.
Gee, I wish I could have strokes wacked off me at the moment.
Take one more off him for questioning you.

[Pippolo]

A disgrace to the spirit of golf, handicaps are not there to be manipulated and abused but to let us all have a fair chance of competing in a field of golfers with different abilities.
Take him down to +6!!!:twisted:

[Hux]

Well I think it's great that he got handicapped by 2.4. The spirit of the game is self improvement and to play to as low a handicap as you can possibly achieve and still compete against the field.

I was on the card 11 times yesterday and we had a net 65 4B stroke. On a couple of other holes I let my partner score first. Didn't worry me overly as I am sick of having a chopper's handicap and I was playing okay except for a couple of holes when the driver chose to desert me or I had a brain fart.
They haven't done the Golflink update yet as Sunday comp isn't done straight up - however I expect to do at least 1.0 or 1.3. If I had not had those couple of killers I would be quite happy to man up to the expected drop of 2+.

I am sick to death of people saying I am not a 20 handicapper because I hit a reasonably decent ball, however put me in a single event at my home course and that is about all I can play to - maybe next game will be different.

[razaar]

Under the USGA system, I believe there is provision for using the two best scores out of 20 if a player blatantly tries to manipulate his/her handicap.

[markTHEblake]

do you think i should adjust his handicap on susspision or just let it go
id like your thoughts

Handicap him according to the rules and leave it at that.

Fortunately the guy will not understand the new handicap system when it comes, and it will adjust his handicap down according, and he wont understand why, and you will not have to explain it.

[adlo]

Tend to agree with the general sentiment on here.

What an idiot, deserves more than a drop in handicap.

[Fraser]

Tell him to build a bridge,
agree with all the above posts,
personally i dont tolerate this sort of stuff.

[Russell]

well it looks like i wont need to take any more shots off him
he played off his new h/capp of 16 on sat and shot 39 stab points!!
quite a feat for someone who cries that its unfair that they were handicapped in a 4bbb
i think he realised that ,when i didnt make a mistake on his handicapp ,that playing 20 bad games to make c grade wasnt as much fun as trying to play to his new handicapp

[Tomo]

cut another 2 off him then.

[Daves]

Every club has these clowns. We seem to be able to get much bigger fields for 4BBB events than individual events, wonder why!

[Tomo]

At my club the biggest burgular is the President.

[Daves]

Hmmm,

winners of last weeks 4BBB stableford had 55 points! 26 and 15 handicappers. 26 (26.2) got cut by 3.6 to 22.6! He went out again at another course on the weekend, had 39 points and lost another 0.4! Ouch!

[PeteyD]

That's not an unbelievable cut for a high capper.

Not everyone that returns a good score is a cap rorter.

[Pippolo]

Now I hope I don't shoot another 88 tomorrow off 28...LOL

Actually I hope I shoot an 85!!!

[pom]

When you lose.4 for every shot under H/cap you can get cut by some pretty big numbers. & lets remember, It is much easier for a 27 marker to shoot 10 under H/Cap than it is for a 7 marker.Played in a 4 ball a few weeks ago & finished with 44 points. I had 35 & partner had 36. Works out that way sometimes
As for H/Cap manipulators. Every club has them. funnily enough . in the long run they tend not to win very much anyway.

[Pippolo]

BTW How do I add my handicap link here, I've tried to copy and paste but don't seem to be able to make the word "Handicap" an active link and I end up with an ugly long sentence....Thanks.

[zigwah]

I don't get why people are saying things like ouch when someone loses a shot, it's too hard to get down.

I am not getting a handicap until i'm sure of what i'm shooting, so i can start off as low as possible, because it's just too hard to keep going down consistantly.

[Johnny Canuck]

BTW How do I add my handicap link here, I've tried to copy and paste but don't seem to be able to make the word "Handicap" an active link and I end up with an ugly long sentence....Thanks.

Type whatever you want to appear in your sig like this:

ALDO's Golf Swing was Found Here (http://www.outonthegreen.com)

Highlight it, then click the hyperlink button found in the toolbar above. Enter the URL of your golflink and hit ok.

[adlo]

That is not very nice. Sledge me in my own thread fwend!

[Daves]

That's not an unbelievable cut for a high capper.

Not everyone that returns a good score is a cap rorter.

Nah its not, and agree not necesarily a rorter. His net score was one shot better than Russell's example. (9 by 0.4 = 3.6 vs 8 by 0.3 =2.4). Don't know the guy. First time he has ever broken his handicap apparently, only the 3rd time he has broken 100 in competition! He was credited with an 88 off the stick under the handicapping methodology.


I don't get why people are saying things like ouch when someone loses a shot, it's too hard to get down.

I am not getting a handicap until i'm sure of what i'm shooting, so i can start off as low as possible, because it's just too hard to keep going down consistantly.

Under the current system it would take 40 rounds of not breaking his handicap for him to get back to his starting handicap. Unless he is on a strong improvement slide he is going to struggle to play to the new handicap.

[Pippolo]

Type whatever you want to appear in your sig like this:

ALDO's Golf Swing was Found Here (http://www.outonthegreen.com)

Highlight it, then click the hyperlink button found in the toolbar above. Enter the URL of your golflink and hit ok.

Thanks Johnny, done.

[morgy]

This kind of stuff amazes me.... After getting my first HC in Feb I am BUSTING to get it down! I don't get these idiots that want to keep their's up so they can win a dozen balls every few weeks...... absolute muppets! If they are going to throw a few rounds to keep their HC high, at $15-$20 a comp fee, they might as well save up their coin, buy a few balls and spend their time wanking at home... then they'd truly feel good about themselves.

I won one of the comps at my club a few weeks back and still didn't feel like i'd earned it because my HC is so damned high (high but reasonable considering I shot 114 last week). If I ever caught someone doing this type of crap i'd tell them to f**k off somewhere else.... report him to he board or name and shame him in the club newsletter.