Bunkers - A rant

[Hux]

I have played a few club courses around Bris lately that I haven't visited for a while and have found that generally speaking the state of bunkers is crap.

Firstly Gailes....
I know Bunkers are a hazard but it is supposed to be for play not to penalise your clubs. Bunkers full of shale and gravel or that hard that your spikes don't mark them and the rake can't penetrate are just stupid. Really nice on those forged wedges too. How about making them GUR if you aren't going to maintain them. I'd prefer to play off a cart path than most of their bunkers.

Second Carbrook...a couple of crud bunkers there too. Managed to gouge the face of my lob wedge..which WAS almost new.
Third Windaroo...jesus do they get lessons on bunker care from Gailes?
Keperra...I'll make an exception as they have been smashed with two lots of flood damage so the $$$ must be hurting.

G69 is spot on about the need to look at alternatives if a club can't afford to maintain bunkers.

Or is it just me????

[mike]

It's a hazard. Tough titties.

[AndyP]

Stop thinking about resale when you get in one.

[Minor_Threat]

I agree mate, if they are as bad as you say they are then they should be made GUR.

[TheTrueReview]

I agree Hux. Treat them with the contempt that they deserve. If playing a social round, self-pronounce them as G.U.R.

[Webster]

pick it up and throw it out

[Johnny Canuck]

All I ask for bunkers is that they
a) have sand
b) have the same type of sand and don't change depending on the bunker (Lakelands, I'm looking in your direction)
c) are consistent.


I played the Vines a few years back and shot 77, with 4 to get out of a bunker as there was zero sand, just hardpan.

Conveniently, on the next hole the marshal pulled up and asked me what I thought of the course.

[Dazza]

All I ask for bunkers is that they
a) have sand
b) have the same type of sand and don't change depending on the bunker (Lakelands, I'm looking in your direction)
c) are consistent.

I agree. Up until about 8 months ago every bunker locally was only half full.
If you're going to go to the effort to put them in, at least top them up with sand occasionally.
Not like we're short of sand round here either, and at least 3 members have their own tip trucks!

[terrys]

They have has some issues with bunkers at my course due to their shape and the heavy rain we get washing out sand. There has been a program to re engineer most of them. Some have been rebuilt to pot like bunkers which look fantastic and should have no issues with the sand being washed out, and others have been converted to grass bunkers, which add a new dimension to the course.

[Daves]

It is certainly a growing issue at Reddie Bay I think. The club is aware of it and I believe they have long term plans to address it.

The other effect of it is that you start to get stones being tossed up onto the greens with bunker shots. If you are not careful to check when putting near a bunker then your ball can suddenly go sideways half way to the hole when it hits one of the stones!

It also seems that they store their blue metal for the path areas next to the sand heap. We were find little bits of blue metal on the greens and I thought they must have been in the drainage base at the bottom of the bunkers until I saw blue metal in the sand at the bucket refills! Must remember to mention that one to the Course Director!

[mike]

I don't understand everybody's argument here.

Bunkers are a hazard. There's supposed to punish a poor approach. If the bunker is a bit scungey and you don't want to scratch your shiny new wedge, take an unplayable.

[Webster]

I hate it when the water hazards are too soft and you ball sinks all the way to the bottom.

[s12raider]

Mike,

If the bunkers are supposed to sand have in them and don't then, while the bunker fits the definition of "hazard", the course (and therefore the club) is making false statements and could be liable for any damage due to "misleading" players et al.

If I went along with your logic then a road could be made of anything and therefore a major freeway could be made of hay for example as long as meets the definition of a road. Most people define things with 'reasonable' understandings (and this is where definitions are made in law) and thus while a farm road can be dirt a major freeway is not going to be made of hay. I'm trying to show the "reasonableness" test of what a bunker should be and if not IT SHOULD BE CLEARLY STATED at the first hole tee off to indicate what the bunker contents are made up of.

And yes I did not have much sleep.

[parlyboy]

I hate it when the water hazards are too soft and you ball sinks all the way to the bottom.

Your soft Jack...:mrgreen:

[senecio]

Second Carbrook...a couple of crud bunkers there too. Managed to gouge the face of my lob wedge..which WAS almost new.

You'll be pleased to know that part of my $500 loan to the club will be put towards bunker improvement.

I just try to stay out of them.

[razaar]

It's a hazard. Tough titties.
And that is the line Committees take when they get into office. Ground staff hate bunker duty, for a start they have to get off the machines so if it is not an issue for the Committee guess what - very limited bunker maintenance. Well maintained tees, greens and bunkers on a golf course are something to look out for if you are considering membership IMO.

[Hux]

In my first post I said bunkers were a hazard. Probably a poor choice of words. As they really aren't a hazard in golfing parlance.

Let's look at the definition of a bunker..... (okay an online dictionary)

Bunker: Sports A sand trap serving as an obstacle on a golf course.

Now in golfing terms we think of bunkers, rough and other things like trees as obstacles. You are penalised by having to play out of it, over it or around it...correct.
Hazards - Water and OOB's would be my take on what consitutes a hazard. Penalties may be applied by stroke count not by affected shot. Take a shot out of a water hazard/pond etc rather than take the penalty and you risk your equipment.

If we accept the definition of a bunker surely at the very least we should expect sand it it, not compacted earth. My point is that a BUNKER is a sand trap...not a rock trap or a gravel pit.

A member at Gailes/Windaroo etc etc paying $1k p.a should surely receive a certain standard of condition for there coin??

[Hux]

I don't understand everybody's argument here.

Bunkers are a hazard. There's supposed to punish a poor approach. If the bunker is a bit scungey and you don't want to scratch your shiny new wedge, take an unplayable.

So I land in a crap hard bunker or worst case run long and roll in. I claim unplayable 1 shot . Drop is nearest point of relief no nearer the hole. So is that always going to be outside the bunker?

[Tex]

Not disputing that it is a hazard which should be avoided, I think the problem is they are exclusively a 'maintained' hazard, creating an understandable expectation of condition, if the are not 'maintained' properly ... well worthy of a rant.

I rant even when they are maintained properly so think your rant was was pretty pi55 poor actually Hux ;)

[PeteyD]

A bunker is a hazard. I believe there is no definition of a bunker in the rules of golf. Take an unplayable and drop it back in the bunker if you no likey (look up rules for unplayable). It is 1 shot and probably better than knifing it across the green into the water. (error corrected)

[mike]

So I land in a crap hard bunker or worst case run long and roll in. I claim unplayable 1 shot . Drop is nearest point of relief no nearer the hole. So is that always going to be outside the bunker?
No. You can't drop outside the bunker. You either take relief within the bunker or re-play your shot from it's original position.

s12raider that is the stupidist post I've read this month. We're talking about bunkers, not roads.

Bunkers are a hazard. There should be no guarantee you'll get out of there with your first shot.

Manicuring bunkers is tough work. 3 years ago I took it upon myself to maintain the 4 bunkers on our course. I raked them before every comp, removed all leaves, trimmed the edges and shovelled the sand back in place after any torrential rain. I did this until some old bitch whinged to me that her ball had landed in a kangaroo paw print.

I repeat. Bunkers are a hazard.

The end.

[haysey]

I thought Mareeba only had 2 bunkers?


Or have they filled a couple in because no one will maintain them....

[mike]

There used to be two bunkers on #14.


Or have they filled a couple in because no one will maintain them....
Yes

[haysey]

There used to be two bunkers on #14.

Yes

Ok. Thanks mate

[paulyboy]

Well that's one thing, our bunkers at Sandhurst are not too bad, but the member maintenance and etiquette SUCKS. So often you end up in some rude and lazy mongrels size 8 1/2 footprint.

[pom]

So I land in a crap hard bunker or worst case run long and roll in. I claim unplayable 1 shot . Drop is nearest point of relief no nearer the hole. So is that always going to be outside the bunker?
Claim an unplayable with the 1 shot penalty then either drop the ball in the bunker or go back to where you played the previous shot.These are the only options under the rules.

[Minor_Threat]

Claim an unplayable with the 1 shot penalty then either drop the ball in the bunker or go back to where you played the previous shot.These are the only options under the rules.I think you will find there are three options mate..

1. Replay from where the lase shot was played
2. 2 club lengths no nearer the hole.
3. Go back on a line with the pin and your ball position as far as you like.

[pom]

I think you will find there are three options mate..

1. Replay from where the lase shot was played
2. 2 club lengths no nearer the hole.
3. Go back on a line with the pin and your ball position as far as you like.
True. But the 2nd & third option the ball must be dropped in the bunker.

[Minor_Threat]

True. But the 2nd & third option the ball must be dropped in the bunker.Yes that is correct.. :)

[Courty]

Yes, I agree that bunkers are a hazard. But I do believe there should be a minimum standard of upkeep.

- Their depth should be consistent across the course.
- They should be filled will sand (not rocks).

That's it.

[mike]

Courty what about the trees on the right of 4 @ Cairns. That's a hazard isn't it? It's just too hard to find a ball in there. And when you do find your ball, it's sometimes near impossible to get a clean strike at it.
I think the Cairns green staff should go in there every day and pick up all the leaves and twigs and palm fronds.














;)

[Courty]

Courty what about the trees on the right of 4 @ Cairns. That's a hazard isn't it? It's just too hard to find a ball in there. And when you do find your ball, it's sometimes near impossible to get a clean strike at it.

You are correct, but that type of hazard is usually not in the line of play. Bunkers are.

[mike]

It's in my line of play ...

[Courty]

:lol:

As I'm sure you are aware, I meant the line of play intended by the course designer.

Those trees are not intended to be played at, over or through. ;)

[mike]

OK I'll remember that.

[mike]

Ban the rake.

[damoocow]

Ban the rake.

Agreed - bunkers are too easy - not a real hazard anymore

[Bruce]

I was talking to the guys at Keperra earlier this year. Their bunkers are shithouse after getting hammered by some big storms.

To fully redo all their 62 bunkers with new drainage, new sand, new shaping and new bunker mat on the faces to eliminate washouts..the cost was over $400k.

Its a huge cost if you want to do it right.

Perhaps they have too many of them and could reduce their maintenance by reducing their number.

Bunkers are suffering from feature creep. As their numbers have expanded so have our expectations of them.

[sms316]

Perhaps they have too many of them and could reduce their maintenance by reducing their number.

Bunkers are suffering from feature creep. As their numbers have expanded so have our expectations of them.
Bruce, Keperra is 27 holes, so obviously costs are about 50% higher to start with.

I wouldn't say it is over-bunkered though.

[Scottt]

G69,

Is there absolutely 0% chance of 17 at The Gong being retained?

[Hux]

There used to be two bunkers on #14.

Yes


Are you for real???
Here you are maintaining this holier than though attitude on bunkers but play on a course that "used to have" all of 4 bunkers and now has 2 because they filled the rest in!!!!

I am talking about courses with multiple greenside bunkers on every hole - not 2.
Poke your head out from your cave sometime. Imagine the frustration of 40 unmaintained bunkers and see if your pious position doesn't change.

[Andrew]

Bunker maintenance is expensive because it’s time consuming. There are many courses around Australia that would have better playing surfaces if they had less bunkers.

In many cases, a slope that runs your ball away from the green leaves a more difficult shot than if a bunker was placed next to the green. The first thing it does is require a variety of shots to recover, whereas you can extract yourself well from most bunkers with one type of shot. It often doesn’t even require a lot of man-made contouring. If the land slightly falls away to one side, then that side of the green becomes your side of greatest risk & reward.

[Andrew]

G69,

Is there absolutely 0% chance of 17 at The Gong being retained?

Rich, the old 17th is the long par 3 (approx 204m) at the northern tip of the course. I'm pretty sure it was gone in you original masterplan.

It would be sad to see the drop down short 15th go as well. S'pose the sheds can't go over near the appartment 'cause they might hear noise from time to time. Developers are seriously 9 kinds of suck in an 8 suck bag.

[mike]

Are you for real???
Here you are maintaining this holier than though attitude on bunkers but play on a course that "used to have" all of 4 bunkers and now has 2 because they filled the rest in!!!!

I am talking about courses with multiple greenside bunkers on every hole - not 2.
Poke your head out from your cave sometime. Imagine the frustration of 40 unmaintained bunkers and see if your pious position doesn't change.


Settle down champ. I don't have a holier than though (sic) attitude when it comes to bunkers. My view is you play the course as it is.

I have played Paradise Palms, Half Moon Bay and Cairns quite a few times this year. All have plenty of bunkers. All bunkers have variances in condition, grain size, hardness and type of sand. (not so much PP) I know if I end up in a bunker it is not a given that I'll get out easy. It's just part of the game.

[razaar]

A few words about bunkers from Superintenants in USA. :lol:
http://turf.lib.msu.edu/2000s/2004/040308.pdf
http://turf.lib.msu.edu/2000s/2005/050132.pdf
http://turf.lib.msu.edu/2000s/2009/090328.pdf

[Minor_Threat]

Settle down champ. I don't have a holier than though (sic) attitude when it comes to bunkers. My view is you play the course as it is.

I have played Paradise Palms, Half Moon Bay and Cairns quite a few times this year. All have plenty of bunkers. All bunkers have variances in condition, grain size, hardness and type of sand. (not so much PP) I know if I end up in a bunker it is not a given that I'll get out easy. It's just part of the game.Of course you play the course as it is! Noone has any choice...

I agree with Hux on this, you are basing your views on a course that has 2 bunkers FFSand you may get in them once in a blue moon! Try playing regularly at a course where you can easily get in 5 or 6 bunkers a round a see how you feel about hard pan and rocks in bunkers then..

[Ferrins]

I practise a cut bunker escape with a 6 iron so when I get rocks in the mix I can get it out without F'ing up my wedges. I've got 2 replacement 6 iron heads because there easy to buy cheap as there x demo's. I also use the 6 iron for really dodgy potentially club head damaging lies

[Ned]

Interesting Thread Inspector Gadget!!!

Having had a good read through ALL of the posts, I think that some may have grabbed the bull by the tail in respect to what you were in fact saying.

“I know Bunkers are a hazard but it is supposed to be for play not to penalise your clubs.”

Hux has acknowledged they are hazards, I believe his point was they are to penalise play, not DAMAGE equipment due to poor/inappropriate/no maintenance.

Now we may not be able to be like some of the consummate Ho’s or the crafty Club rebadge experts on this site and to be confronted with a bunker that is more like a creek bed (rocks and crap included) or hard as a dry clay pan then not only does it represent the distinct possibility that you are about to damage some hard paid or worked for equipment, but to players also.

I know I’ve played from a pot and in the ensuing shot copped a spray in the face because of poor “sand” or poor “care”. Fortunately I had the Golfers Australian Standard and Approved Safety $500 safety glasses on!!!!!!!!!!!

At least proactive Committees at some Clubs have been reasonable and GUR’d identified bunkers until they could bought to what they are there for, penalise a player, not damage one or said equipment.

And Paradise Palms for the most have plenty of sand in their bunkers…………………following foto confirms this!!!!!!!!!!!! (Nice foto Haysey)


http://gallery.me.com/haysey2/100012/photo1237699110570/web.jpg?ver=12377009020001


http://gallery.me.com/haysey2/100012/photo1237699049536/web.jpg?ver=12377009450001

[AndyP]

All courses should have exactly the same bunkers too. It's not fair that I have to get used to different types of bunkers (amount/type of sand), when I play a different course.

[Yossarian]

Yeah but they should be bunkers not gravel pits.

[mike]

Settle down champ. I don't have a holier than though (sic) attitude when it comes to bunkers. My view is you play the course as it is.

I have played Paradise Palms, Half Moon Bay and Cairns quite a few times this year. All have plenty of bunkers. All bunkers have variances in condition, grain size, hardness and type of sand. (not so much PP) I know if I end up in a bunker it is not a given that I'll get out easy. It's just part of the game.

Try playing regularly at a course where you can easily get in 5 or 6 bunkers a round a see how you feel about hard pan and rocks in bunkers then..
Why don't you try reading my post that you quoted. I highlighted in red in case you missed it.

[Ferrins]

Revenge of the cursed sand bunker

[mike]

... I know Bunkers are a hazard but it is supposed to be for play not to penalise your clubs...
Let's just agree to disagree. Your main issue seems to be the possibility of scratching your new wedge.

The way I look at it? They're golf clubs. You hit things with them. Sometimes they get scratched or dinged. No big deal to me.

[Minor_Threat]

Why don't you try reading my post that you quoted. I highlighted in red in case you missed it.Like I said try playing them regularly.. Not a "few" times!

[adlo]

The way I look at it? They're golf clubs. You hit things with them. Sometimes they get scratched or dinged. No big deal to me.

Mike, I am truly shocked by that comment.

You always play the latest and greatest gear.... and you would never tamper with your equipment.

[mike]

MT this is just getting silly now. How many times do I have to play a course to form an opinion on it's bunkers.

You must be a Bulldogs supporter.

[Minor_Threat]

MT this is just getting silly now. How many times do I have to play a course to form an opinion on it's bunkers.

You must be a Bulldogs supporter.Its not about a course it is about bunkers in general..

It appears that your home club has two bunkers on it and you are of the opinion that a bunker does not need to adhere to any standard. This is based on the fact that you can get into a maximum of two bunkers per round.

My point is that if you played regularly at a course with numerous bunkers on each hole you would not have the same stance.

Yes I am a Bulldogs member of NRL and AFL.

[mike]

Its not about a course it is about bunkers in general..Yep, I figured that.



It appears that your home club has two bunkers on it Correct.



and you are of the opinion that a bunker does not need to adhere to any standard.Correct again.



This is based on the fact that you can get into a maximum of two bunkers per round.Good maths. I'm impressed.



... if you played regularly at a course with numerous bunkers on each hole you would not have the same stance.Wrong. I never have and never will complain about the condition or position of any hazard, bunker, lake, creek, tree, etc etc.

Our opinions differ. I'm happy to leave it at that.

[sms316]

... if you played regularly at a course with numerous bunkers on each hole you would not have the same stance.


If you played a course regularly and knew which ones weren't to your liking you would know which ones to avoid. A bit like out of bounds if you think about it.

All you people whining about consistency of bunkers - man up FFS. Learn some decent technique.

[Tex]

All you people whining about consistency of bunkers - man up FFS. Learn some decent technique.

WHAT IS the technique for large Blue Metal stones in bunkers? :razz:

[Courty]

WHAT IS the technique for large Blue Metal stones in bunkers? :razz:

Exactly. At my club, they decided to relocate the sand stockpile to the pad where they previously kept gravel for the paths. Guess what gets scooped up every time they pick up a bucket full of sand?

[Hux]

Let's just agree to disagree. Your main issue seems to be the possibility of scratching your new wedge.

The way I look at it? They're golf clubs. You hit things with them. Sometimes they get scratched or dinged. No big deal to me.

So I like to look after my gear...shit that is a crime isn't it!! I put the head covers back on after every shot too.

Strangely enough I look after all my things. Do you slam your car door into another in a car park just cause the parks aren't wide enough?

But Mike I think you are just missing the point. I don't have an issue with bunkers - I have an issue with poorly maintained bunkers. If I put one under the trees (like usual at Bribie) and I ding a club off the lie I wear it - it's a non maintained part of the course.

Point is bunkers are supposed to be filled with sand - not rocks that is the point of a bunker, they aren't hard compacted dirt with no sand either. If you leave something in a state of disrepair you are saying F you to everyone that plays on the course or worse pays membership.

At the champs go and play at Gailes - get into some bunkers and tell me just how great they are and how its all just part of the game and you enjoyed the experience!!

[Hux]

If you played a course regularly and knew which ones weren't to your liking you would know which ones to avoid. A bit like out of bounds if you think about it.

All you people whining about consistency of bunkers - man up FFS. Learn some decent technique.

Not once have I said anything about consistency...condition only. I don't care if they are grainy in one, fine in another, raked daily, weekly or just by player, shallow, deep or upside down. Couldn't give a FF in fact.
I just ask that it in fact be a bunker. That is contain sand not shale or gravel and certainly not be a bed of hard packed dirt interspersed with rock.

I know I have described half of Keperra's bunkers :razz: - actually the poor old Kep was just coming back when the 2nd storm and flood undid all the hard work.

BTW What has happened to the practice green? Last time I was there it was looking like my lawn...26 different varieties of grass!!

[pom]

If you played a course regularly and knew which ones weren't to your liking you would know which ones to avoid. A bit like out of bounds if you think about it.

All you people whining about consistency of bunkers - man up FFS. Learn some decent technique.
Would be interested to know how you go about avoiding green side bunkers. It has been my experience in golf that normally when you try to not hit that little white ball somewhere, that is exactly where it goes.
Other than that . Bunkers are a Hazard. Play the ball as it lies & get it out of there.

[BrisVegas]

hux - i'd love to hear what you think of Windaroo's bunkers!

[Hux]

hux - i'd love to hear what you think of Windaroo's bunkers!
Not as bad as Gailes but still crap.

Shame as the greens are good and the fairways generally are pretty good. We started on 13 on Friday for the shotgun start and that was a tough warm up. Damage was done by the time we got into the dry part of the course.

[mike]

Strangely enough I look after all my things. Do you slam your car door into another in a car park just cause the parks aren't wide enough?
I don't get the analogy there but no I don't.


At the champs go and play at Gailes - get into some bunkers and tell me just how great they are and how its all just part of the game and you enjoyed the experience!! I've played plenty of golf and been in plenty of shitty bunkers and it's never affected my view of the course I was playing.

Honestly.

[AndyP]

Car analogy: If there are roadworks with loose gravel, should one take a detour to avoid the possibility that the car might get a stone ding?

[s12raider]

Mike I'm so glad to have made your top month list - I see comparisons or analogies never were in your vocab.

Kia kaha fella, kia kaha

[markTHEblake]

I can steer a car straighter than i can steer a golf ball!

We have a magazine article on the noticeboard that is about golf course maintenance costs, and has a picture of a bunker with a heap of money thrown in it. As you can guess the article is suggesting clubs can save a bunch of money by getting rid of bunkers.

Since the rain stopped, our new greenkeeper has got stuck into maintenance and replairs, and has filled in 5 bunkers so far, dont think he has stopped either. We had about 40 and I reckon that is 20 too many.


Whilst it would be nice to emulate Melbourne courses with hundreds of bunkers, we don't have the luxury of digging a hole and sand just appears. We got to keep filling them with sand from elsewhere, and the stuff doesnt grow on trees. On the other hand a hole with a bit of rough - grass is technically free!

[Spider Lover]

An interesting topic. Personally I think bunkers should be maintained and have enough good quality sand in them you don't hit dirt, rocks etc.

I don't think a bunker is too much of a hazard for anyone with a handicap of about 12 or below. They can usually give themselves a decent chance of a sand save.

I'd like to see a compromise in that bunkers are not raked. We all know you can still get the ball out but other things have to be taken into consideration such as, is the ball in a footprint, is the sand heavily compressed, is the ball resting against a little ridge, etc.

Bunkers should still be a real hazard so that when you enter them you think, 'Oh, sh!t', instead of, 'Oh, well'.

[Bruce]

I'd rather not play out of a footprint.

Which adds my little maintenance rant to the pile. People who walk large dogs on the course and don't clean up after them. I've ended up in a fair few tracks left by large dogs in bunkers. If you want to walk on the course then treat it as if you were playing it and clean up after yourselves.

[In the Hole]

I can steer a car straighter than i can steer a golf ball!

We have a magazine article on the noticeboard that is about golf course maintenance costs, and has a picture of a bunker with a heap of money thrown in it. As you can guess the article is suggesting clubs can save a bunch of money by getting rid of bunkers.




that is interesting and figures to, our bunkers are in bloody ordinary condition..to a point where I agree with earlier comment that could aguably be judged out of play, pooled water, mud and bugger all sand is a tough ask by anyones standards...any tips by the way...and don't say avoid them:oops:

[nuttedit]

Question golf designer why dont we build bunkers like in Scotland and Ireland with layers of turf in thr face and hard faces so the ball rolls back most of the time and gives you sand under the ball. Sure they are pot bunkers and u might not get a great stance but generally have a chance if your technique is good. Interested on your thoughts.


I was talking to the guys at Keperra earlier this year. Their bunkers are shithouse after getting hammered by some big storms.

To fully redo all their 62 bunkers with new drainage, new sand, new shaping and new bunker mat on the faces to eliminate washouts..the cost was over $400k.

Its a huge cost if you want to do it right.

[sms316]

I find that bunkers are shithouse when they only maintain them once a week. Christ knows what they are doing for the rest of the week.

[razaar]

I find that bunkers are shithouse when they only maintain them once a week. Christ knows what they are doing for the rest of the week.
Sitting on machines or annoying somebody in the office or proshop, perhaps. Forgot, don't they maintain bunkers on machines?:wink:

[zigwah]

Bunkers are always awsome where i play :)

[henno]

There are some new products on the market like Bunker mat and Sportcrete that allows the faces to drain and therefore requiring less sand to be put on the faces which hopefully reduces plugging. The jury is out on some of these new techniques but signs are that they are pretty good..at a cost of course.

If this is the fancy new stuff you mentioned they put in the faces of some of the bunkers in Wynnum, I am still not entirely sold. If the material is placed in an area where your ball can collect (rather than roll back) it can feel like you're hitting off a chopping board covered in a few mm of sand. To the eye it looks like fluffy, dry sand, but upon hitting it, it's hard as a rock underneath.

A good idea, sure, but like all things there needs to be some tweaking to ensure it has the desired effect.

[virge666]

I love sod faced bunkers - awesome look.

High sand for mine. Or I have played a few courses in the USA where the bunker faces are wooden.... yep wood, that hard stuf.

Don't skull it.

[just]

Question

From an aesthetic point of view do you prefer the look of high sand up the faces or flat bottom bunkers with grass faces ?

I like the flat bottom bunkers with grass faces. Henno likes fat bottom clunkers with gross faces (refer to Music thread).

[mike]

Question

From an aesthetic point of view do you prefer the look of high sand up the faces or flat bottom bunkers with grass faces ?
I like the look of the big sandy wall.

Moonah Links Open course, I think it's the par 3 11th, has a bunker on the front right where the top of the bunker face must be 2 metres above my head height. Awesome.

No short jokes please.

[Bruce]

I like the look of the big sandy wall.

Moonah Links Open course, I think it's the par 3 11th, has a bunker on the front right where the top of the bunker face must be 2 metres above my head height. Awesome.

No short jokes please.

Have I told you the story of the Best. Sand Save. Ever.

[mike]

Do tell.

[Bruce]

http://ozgolf.net/forums/showpost.php?p=229889&postcount=46

And reading down from there it looks like you have heard it before Mike :)

[BrettM]

As a Super I always thought flat bottom bases were the right way to present a bunker.

But how about the good Dr's effort at Cypress Point? Many of the bunkers there are like this, they vary in their slope to suit the surrounding contours. Don't the best golf course architects lay their courses over the land available? This is the LHS bunker at the 1st green.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x67/kelbrett/P2140040.jpg

[AndyP]

The story needs pics, Bruce.

[adlo]

As a Super I always thought flat bottom bases were the right way to present a bunker.

But how about the good Dr's effort at Cypress Point? Many of the bunkers there are like this, they vary in their slope to suit the surrounding contours. Don't the best golf course architects lay their courses over the land available? This is the LHS bunker at the 1st green.


Brett, my brief looks at Cypress when I drove past (rather than walk it- you lucky bugger) amazed me.

Compared to the other "premium" courses on the peninsula, the bunkering of Cypress stands out. It looks like the most beautiful, natural bunkering. Is it the best bunkered course in the world?

[Bruce Dickinson]

Brett, my brief looks at Cypress when I drove past (rather than walk it- you lucky bugger) amazed me.

Compared to the other "premium" courses on the peninsula, the bunkering of Cypress stands out. It looks like the most beautiful, natural bunkering. Is it the best bunkered course in the world?
Its pretty special

[adlo]

Amazing stuff, looks stunning from this POV:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/images/CP13.jpg

[razaar]

Not many approach shots would bounce down the slope to that green.

[BrettM]

Brett, my brief looks at Cypress when I drove past (rather than walk it- you lucky bugger) amazed me.

Compared to the other "premium" courses on the peninsula, the bunkering of Cypress stands out. It looks like the most beautiful, natural bunkering. Is it the best bunkered course in the world?

Wait until I play it adlo, hopefully early next year as I've got an invite.

Is it the best bunkered course in the world? There's no doubt that strategically it is awesome. But bunkering style is an individual taste. I love courses like Friars Head, which in many ways is similar to CPC. Looking at old photos of CPC to what is there today, I think Fazio left them a little clean, but maintenance again is an issue.

Friars Head #10

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x67/kelbrett/FriarsHead.jpg

[adlo]

Brett, you lucky, lucky man.

CPC is a "Bucket List" course for me, enjoy it.

[Courty]

Question

From an aesthetic point of view do you prefer the look of high sand up the faces or flat bottom bunkers with grass faces ?

Definitely high faces, but I'd prefer my course had flat bunkers with grass faces.

[zrw]

JC... had finchy out last week his only thought on our pots was to cut down the fringe on the side `s so that the ball can roll into the bunker easier but leave the top fringe.

[ParMaster]

Friars Head looks like a great course. It's funny however that they don't have distance markers or indexes and distances on the scorecard.

Yeah CPC isn't too bad a course from what I hear...

;)

[nuttedit]

Nuts

I guess we're also comparing bunkers built on a naturally sandy site to those built on a clay site.
When building them on a sandy site they naturally drain...take most of perth..dig a hole and you have a free draining bunker.

Over here where a high percentage of courses are on clay sites they need to be able to drain. I have occasionally heard Moe preferring bunkers that sit flush with the ground (aka St Andrews Beach) as opposed to those that look like that have been build up. This is done because the lowest point of the bunker has to drain somewhere and on a flat site this is very difficult.

The sod stacked faces are to protect from erosion. The old bunkers at NSW were just normal edge but it gets so damn windy it constantly changes the edges and shape of the bunker. The sod stacked walls basically fix the bunker edge. Un fortunately these sods have to be redone about every 6 years or so.

The problems with bunkers built on clay and having high sand faces is they often try to put the sand thicker on the faces to keep it there. Thicker sand on the faces often means balls plugging up there. There are some new products on the market like Bunker mat and Sportcrete that allows the faces to drain and therefore requiring less sand to be put on the faces which hopefully reduces plugging. The jury is out on some of these new techniques but signs are that they are pretty good..at a cost of course.

Thanks for the info. I do prefer hard sand faces and those timber faces are a definite no, god know where the ball might go if you hit them, could do some real damage to one's self. I'll just have to enjoy the sodded faces on the links.:smt038

[Daves]

I am usually happy to take bunkers as they come, but must admit I am getting a bit annoyed with hidden wet bunkers at the moment.

Our cored greens are getting regular overnight waterings it seems. In some cases the sprinklers are also saturating green side bunkers but it is variable. During the morning the top crust dries out and you are none the wiser until the club head hits through the crust and buries in the wet concrete mix laying in wait for you underneath. If it was real sand in the bunkers the problem would not happen, drainage etc would ensure the water got away quickly, but our semi clay and dirt jobbies just turn into a stiff slurry then dry as hard as concrete after!

[razaar]

I am usually happy to take bunkers as they come, but must admit I am getting a bit annoyed with hidden wet bunkers at the moment.

Our cored greens are getting regular overnight waterings it seems. In some cases the sprinklers are also saturating green side bunkers but it is variable. During the morning the top crust dries out and you are none the wiser until the club head hits through the crust and buries in the wet concrete mix laying in wait for you underneath. If it was real sand in the bunkers the problem would not happen, drainage etc would ensure the water got away quickly, but our semi clay and dirt jobbies just turn into a stiff slurry then dry as hard as concrete after!
Pretty common situation with most Brizzy clubs. The older systems use full circle sprinkler heads on the greens which does the bunkers and the greens surrounds. Bunkers get a double dose with runoff from the green (depending on the design) which carries organic matter and top dressing particles which infiltrates the bunker sand. The greens surrounds only need watering once or twice a week under normal conditions, not every day. The surround can be watered by hand or a series of sprinklers using a hose with a male bayonet connector. The sprinklers servicing the greens would be better directed inwards.

[mike]

I am usually happy to take bunkers as they come
Good philosophy.

[sms316]

How about fairway bunkers where a ball landing in the face bury 10 inches underground? Finding the ball was akin to a Egyptian searching for a lost tomb.

[razaar]

In contrast some fairway bunkers are like hardpan and no problem at all. Sometimes you wish the ball was in the bunker rather than in a poor lie in the fairway. Hard to understand why they are there. A dense grass bunker presents a challenge.

[Hux]

Anyone else notice that stones could be removed from Pac Harbours bunkers - on the notice board for local rules.....un f'en believable - common sense!!!!!

[TheNuclearOne]

Anyone else notice that stones could be removed from Pac Harbours bunkers - on the notice board for local rules.....un f'en believable - common sense!!!!!

We have that at Yeppoon too.