The X20 Tour expermiment - Part 2

[virge666]

Carrying on from here

http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15093

=====

Righto then - took the sledgehammers out yesterday and risking more abuse from Henno, here is the result. As a side note, I've a bit of a sore back at present from living in a chair, I can swing OK, but the walking hurts after about an hour.

Firstly, 14 greens in regulation. And shot 3 over which is my handicap. Course was a Saturday usual almost off the champ tees. Which to be honest... ain't that long. I hit a lot of 8-PW shots today and a lot of 4 irons of the Par 4's and 5's

So here is the honest truth.

-Yes, they go straighter, the ball flight with real balls is quite good which I did not expect.
-Yes, I can hit them high and low and move them left and right. It is hard to get it to move a lot though.5-10m not a problem. being about to move 15-20 without a lot of guessing without overdoing it is quite hard.
-Yes, the distance control is sensational. Frigging amazing to be honest.
-Yes, it is easier to hit and score with. I had 5 birdies today and missed two 8 footers for more.
-Yes, they are WAY easier out of dodgey lies and rough.

But... there is no feel, there is no "squish", there is no indication of the collision between the club head and ball. there is this weird sort of "click" as the ball goes up in the air. Thats it. Even with soft stepped shafts, you can feel the position of the head and the flex in the shaft, but the feedback from contact is totally foreign. It is like hitting wood against wood.

So this is the argument, personally clubs like this offer no reward for a flushed shot but they hit the ball closer to the pin.

This is not the forged vs cast argument either . . this is pure club design. Miss the sweet spot by 4mm on a small head and the club head twists, the ball collision is different. Do the same on a club head like the X20 tours and the twisting just doesn't happen, the clever weight distribution just covers it up and the club head just powers through.

So what do we want - the reward for a good shot in feedback . . . or shorter putts ?

[Ferrins]

If these clubs float your boat and your looking for a secondhand set then I saw a good set at Virginia GC for $330. DG S300 I think

[3oneday]

Sounds like you should keep the Tours until you shoot under par, then reassess based on how long that takes to happen.

[Johnny Canuck]

do you even need to ask the question?

does this even need a thread?

all the feedback you need lies close to the pin.

[virge666]

all the feedback you need lies close to the pin.

Not always . . . it is the big question of WHY you play golf.

Do you play it just for score . . ?

Or for THAT 6 iron you hit into the 4th hole,
Or it is to show off the latest and greatest sticks you got from BSG.
Or for the longest drive of your group.
Or it is the clubs you made, or the technical side
Or is it the course design and the walk you have
Or is it the guys you play with
Or to getaway from something or someone.

It isn't always about the score . . .

And what if my ball striking gets worse because I start using 8 hybrids ?
What will my friends say ?

What to do . . .

[ParMaster]

Golf is played for enjoyment.

Now it's where the enjoyment comes from that is opinion. To me the most fun is playing a shot that is so tough, and it comes off. There is no better satisfaction than that.

But it is a great feeling to have played a good round and to walk away knowing you tried your best and played to the best of your ability.

[Daves]

That "squish" feel is very addictive!

[adlo]

Lower scores.

To fulfill your macho desires, go play a round with some blades and squish some shots every month or so.

[Captain Nemo]

Keep them, ive gone from 11 to 7 in the short time ive had them, and had the odd 4 over par rounds, which im happy about.
Now if i can only putt............

[s12raider]

I think the age old adage is "be careful what you wish for"

[LarryLong]

Keep 'em. There's nothing like the feeling you get from sneering at blokes who are struggling to hit their blades. :)

Actually, you could try out a theory of mine. I've always thought that the way to do it would be to practice exclusively with your less forgiving clubs, and then play your comp golf with the shovels. Assuming that the clubs are the same length and weight, shafts are the same and sweet spots are in the same place (big assumption, I guess) you might be able to keep your ball-striking genius and get away with a couple of mishits when it really counts.

Does anybody do this?

[Eag's]

do you even need to ask the question?

does this even need a thread?

all the feedback you need lies close to the pin.

I could not agree more JC. For someone who seems so focused on improving their game Virge, then the answer is obvious. I would not give a toss how the shots felt of the club face if I was hitting 14 greens and giving myself that many chances at birdie.

[Captain Nemo]

I could not agree more JC. For someone who seems so focused on improving their game Virge, then the answer is obvious. I would not give a toss how the shots felt of the club face if I was hitting 14 greens and giving myself that many chances at birdie.


Here, here!:smt038

[Ferrins]

It's in the mind and after awhile you'll be selling them just like Perci.

[Jarro]

It's in the mind and after awhile you'll be selling them just like Perci.

... and don't we all love him for that :mrgreen:

Virge ... post #12 makes the definative statement.

Listen to the man !!!

[Johnny Canuck]

Not always . . . it is the big question of WHY you play golf.

Do you play it just for score . . ?

Or for THAT 6 iron you hit into the 4th hole,
Or it is to show off the latest and greatest sticks you got from BSG.
Or for the longest drive of your group.
Or it is the clubs you made, or the technical side
Or is it the course design and the walk you have
Or is it the guys you play with
Or to getaway from something or someone.

It isn't always about the score . . .

And what if my ball striking gets worse because I start using 8 hybrids ?
What will my friends say ?

What to do . . .

What's more enjoyable?

Hitting it to 20 feet and two putting for par, or hitting it to 10 and making bird?

I'd play with a dildo on a stick if it got me better results approaching greens.

By the sounds of things, you'll be hitting the ball closer to the pin so no one will be able to tell if your ball striking gets worse. Also, who says that your ball striking will get worse? By that logic, if I go back to my blades, my ball striking will improve?

Give it a bit more trial and error and get over the honeymoon period. Once you have done this, make a decision.

Maybe a combo set is in your future.

[zigwah]

I'd play with a dildo on a stick if it got me better results approaching greens.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Dildo on a stick, u crack me up!!! :smt038

[kwantfm]

I'm sort of surprised by this thread. I always got the impression from Virge that it was always about the score...

[BrisVegas]

are you going pro any time soon? does your score equate to food on the table? There are a heap of pros playing AP2s, TP, Ping and other cavity/pocket cavs because they need to hit it close to stay on tour. Sometimes you should do thing because it makes you feel good, not because it makes sense.

[Johnny Canuck]

like me playing a square driver.

[kwantfm]

are you going pro any time soon? does your score equate to food on the table? There are a heap of pros playing AP2s, TP, Ping and other cavity/pocket cavs because they need to hit it close to stay on tour. Sometimes you should do thing because it makes you feel good, not because it makes sense.

That's exactly the point... I'm pleased to see that this thread has brought together a whole host of reasons why we play golf. I play Mizuno MP-32s despite being a teen handicapper... they feel good, they look good. I tried MX-200s, a much more forgiving club, but didn't like the lack of feedback.

Probably should add that if it were all about score then I probably would have topped myself sometime during my last dozen rounds...

[oncewasagolfer]

What's more enjoyable?

Hitting it to 20 feet and two putting for par, or hitting it to 10 and making bird?

I'd play with a dildo on a stick if it got me better results approaching greens.

By the sounds of things, you'll be hitting the ball closer to the pin so no one will be able to tell if your ball striking gets worse. Also, who says that your ball striking will get worse? By that logic, if I go back to my blades, my ball striking will improve?

Give it a bit more trial and error and get over the honeymoon period. Once you have done this, make a decision.

Maybe a combo set is in your future.

I'd like to see that:smt038

[kwantfm]

I'd like to see that:smt038

I'd like to see the reaction from other members...

[oncewasagolfer]

Priceless

[henno]

JC if you come to the champs, I expect you to drop a wedge to make way for a dildo-on-a-stick in the bag.

[Johnny Canuck]

what loft?

[oncewasagolfer]

make it a flop wedge;)

[henno]

what loft?

Vertical. Although I think it's more about head weight. ;)

[TheTrueReview]

Virge, another vote for the X-20 Tours. Enjoyment should be your golfing raison d'être. If good results = enjoyment, the answer's obvious. Not that this affects you I'm sure, but 'ego' should be left to the hackers.

[Johnny Canuck]

5 degrees upright?

[Yossarian]

High bounce.

[razaar]

Didn't Rocco Mediate play the Cally X-20 Tour irons when he tied Tiger in the US Open?

[LarryLong]

I thought it was more to do with shaft length?

[zigwah]

It's not the size of shovel, it's how you dig with it.

[3oneday]

Get some toppies.

[virge666]

What I want to know JC is if it is any good out of the rough ?

[Johnny Canuck]

Great out of the thick bush.

[PeteyD]

what about into the poop?

[pt73]

Didn't Rocco Mediate play the Cally X-20 Tour irons when he tied Tiger in the US Open?
No he played the regular X-20 and I think he still does.

http://blogs.golf.com/equipment/2008/06/rocco-mediates.html

[virge666]

I saw a WITB for Rocco and he said he was using the Diablo's . . . hmmm he might be a switcher ...

[pt73]

The Cally site says he's using X-20 but that may be out of date.

http://www.callawaygolf.com/Global/en-US/TheTour/StaffPros/RoccoMediate.html

[3oneday]

Didn't he previously use Nike hacksticks too ?

[virge666]

Didn't he previously use Nike hacksticks too ?


Yeah he did in a previous life. Those slingshots were awful clunky dead clumps of iron.

[3oneday]

I'm not sure he even used those, there was a funny set, nike NDS or something ?

[virge666]

I'm not sure he even used those, there was a funny set, nike NDS or something ?

Wow . . i know he had a crook back but NDS !!

[Jono]

Ozgolf.net

It's not about the score ...

(insert PeterRS's picture here)

;)

[henno]

Ozgolf.net

It's not about the score ...

http://imgur.com/bwP0A.jpg


;)

[Johnny Canuck]

http://imgur.com/bwP0A.jpg

OZGOLF.NET IT'S ALL ABOUT THE WARRANTY!

[Yossarian]

:smt046

There needs to be a pot stirring emoticon.

[Scottt]

http://imgur.com/bwP0A.jpg

OZGOLF.NET IT'S ALL ABOUT THE WARRANTY!

:lol:

:smt038

[BrisVegas]

hey speaking of hybrids (thread-tangent)... Anyone had any experience with either:

Grafalloy Prolaunch Red Hybrid (LOW, 89gram, 2.0 torque)
Grafalloy Prolaunch Platinum Hybrid (LOW-MID, 81gram, 2.0 torque)
Epic Hybrid (MID, 85gram, 2.5 torque)

I hit a high ball and was wondering if I should stick to a low launch style shaft in a hybrid or go for something mid-height? I've enjoyed DG S300 and V2 104gram in the past, if that helps... I've also hit the Prolaunch Red in a 13deg 3 wood and liked the flight I got from that.

[Johnny Canuck]

Aldo has the Red in his hybrid. Still has the pull.

Simmsy has the Platinum, I believe.

[razaar]

Surprisingly the Proforce V2 High Launch lowered my ball flight (G10 21*). Not sure why that is, less ball spin obviously, more torque than the Prolaunch maybe.

[BrisVegas]

sorry, i thought i'd posted my thread jack/tangent in the hybrids off the deck thread.... my bad. i'll post my question over there. sorry Rain Man, you can have your thread back now.

[daMANiack]

Hi,

Been using X-20 Tours for maybe 18 months now, can't really fault the set, I play off 5 to 7 and have shot under par with these a number of times, 69 one day.

Maybe Adam Scott needs to get a set of X-20 Tours to get his confidence back. :)

I liked the X-20 Tour so much I purchased the X-22 Tour with PXF, re-shafted with Ns Pro 100 but don't like as much as the X-20 Tour and they've been retired to the cupboard until they agree to behave.

Cheerz :) :D ;)

[Scottt]

You grown tits yet hitting these godawful things, Virge Vadge?

[Craig_Syd]

I play the normal x-20's and while not exactly the same to be honest I know what Virge is saying... I have been wondering if I hadn't hit one out of the middle since I got them 18mths ago but they just keep going where I want them too!
You can't agrue with the results, I have gone from 9 to 4 since I started playing them, so despite the feel I will be sticking with them......
Must be a Northern Beaches thing......8-)

[razaar]

My iron play has been atrocious this year, mainly because my swing speed has dropped off through old age. After yesterday's gruelling display of weak iron shots, I have finally realised that my game requires all woods or the next best thing. So off I went on a shopping spree this morning to see what was out there. As fate would have it, I ended up with Cally X20s :lol: because they just happened to be perfect for me. I seem to have gained ten extra metres with the 5-iron and a much higher ball flight. Every shot I hit felt like they came right out of the sweet spot...something which has been missing from my iron game recently. I tried the X22's and they felt exactly like the X20's. Price was the final decider, less than 1/2 the original price.

Virge.. stay with the X20s, advice from an old head who has played blades & musclebacks for 40 years.:)

[goonie]

Virges X-20's are gone. I am thinking of getting some X20 Tours as a back up set myself.

[rodders]

Virges X-20's are gone. I am thinking of getting some X20 Tours as a back up set myself.

Yep, I got them. Played well today with my 2005 TP's but wondering how good these irons are given the raves about them.

[goonie]

Yep, I got them. Played well today with my 2005 TP's but wondering how good these irons are given the raves about them.

let me know if you don't like them.

[rodders]

let me know if you don't like them.

Will do.

[Scottt]

I seem to have gained ten extra metres with the 5-iron

That's because it's a four iron!

[Yossarian]

My gosh everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

[razaar]

That's because it's a four iron!
Say what! Both the 4 & 5 irons are the same length as my Mizunos & the lofts look very similar yet the ball comes out higher. The Cally shafts may be softer than the Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue shafts in the Mizzes but I have no way of telling without access to a frequency machine. The ball goes very straight but then again I have a straight ball flight, tending to a slight fade in the irons and the opposite in the woods.

[goonie]

Razzar what mizzies do you have? Are they MP30's?

[razaar]

Razzar what mizzies do you have? Are they MP30's?
Yep same clubs you saw at Wynnum.

[virge666]

Razzar what mizzies do you have? Are they MP30's?

Which are pretty much MP 62's . . . another great set from Mizz that cost nothing and are a timeless classic.

[goonie]

Virge have given us a run down of how the X-22 tours go yet?

[adlo]

Gathering dust I'd say goonie.

[virge666]

Gathering dust I'd say goonie.

Yeah mate. Just out of the op.

If you were in sydney you could borrow them.

No golf til march.

[adlo]

Wow, that's a huge break. Please keep us all posted Virge and hope your recovery is quicker than anticipated.

[goonie]

Yeah mate. Just out of the op.

If you were in sydney you could borrow them.

No golf til march.

Hope everything goes well, and you recover quickly.
I am recovering from a small procedure too, so I am spending my time looking for something to put in my spare KBS's :-)

How do they compare to some of your previous clubs, and how have they gone in the time that you have played them?

[SV8]

a guy next to us at the parkwood driving range faked a wrist injury and stopped hitting his mizuno blades with x100's because he felt embarrassed not being able to get a six iron off the ground, great looking bats and bag though ! go with the squish feel even if its the old kel nagle's

[zigwah]

X20 Tour with KBS Tour shafts = OMG I love these irons and shafts, anyone out there thinking of changing from blades or the like, do it, do it, just do it.

They are so forgiving and seriously they don't look like massive shovels when you look down on them.

Par 3, 7 iron out of the toes right centre of the green, the old kzgs would have said yeah right buddy.

Hands down the best irons i have hit ever, from prosimmon crusaders to ram tour grinds, king cobra oversize, mcgregor the dr, mp33's, ping i3's, j33 combos, nak np 1's, KZG's and a handfull of others.

These are number one for forgiveness

Do It

[TheNuclearOne]

X20 Tour with KBS Tour shafts = OMG I love these irons and shafts, anyone out there thinking of changing from blades or the like, do it, do it, just do it.

They are so forgiving and seriously they don't look like massive shovels when you look down on them.

Par 3, 7 iron out of the toes right centre of the green, the old kzgs would have said yeah right buddy.

Hands down the best irons i have hit ever, from prosimmon crusaders to ram tour grinds, king cobra oversize, mcgregor the dr, mp33's, ping i3's, j33 combos, nak np 1's, KZG's and a handfull of others.

These are number one for forgiveness

Do It

Now isn't that a far cry from yesty's comments and thoughts Zig.

As i said, you can't go on absolute first impression, and forget what they freq'd per the scale. Very glad to see they worked out mate.

[TheNuclearOne]

Another thing, i really don't see much competition (for you) for the X-20 T's among your mentions.

[zigwah]

As far as forgiving goes, they would be hard to beat.

you just don't get that pure "squish" that you get from a blade, but i think i can live with that

[DracZ]

Another thing, i really don't see much competition (for you) for the X-20 T's among your mentions.

He basically went from zero-offset blades and minimal offset players cavities to shovels. Why does it come as some huge surprise that these are by far the most forgiving?

Try some i5's / i15's / AP2s / J36 PC's on for size :)

[zigwah]

Don't kill my buzz man :)

[TheNuclearOne]

He basically went from zero-offset blades and minimal offset players cavities to shovels. Why does it come as some huge surprise that these are by far the most forgiving?

Try some i5's / i15's / AP2s / J36 PC's on for size :)

Exactly hahahahaha

[zigwah]

I think i'll stick with what i have for the moment, but as always anything is for the at the right price ;)

[goonie]

Glad you found a set you like and works, I'm very tempted by the X-22 tours.

[rodders]

Thank fk I just sold my X-20 tours on ebay - they were scaring the neighbour's children!

Anyone want to bet Zig does not have them in 6 months time?

[DracZ]

Thank fk I just sold my X-20 tours on ebay - they were scaring the neighbour's children!

Anyone want to bet Zig does not have them in 6 months time?

Its okay, I'm sure zagwah will pick em up when the time comes ;)

[PeteyD]

Thank fk I just sold my X-20 tours on ebay - they were scaring the neighbour's children!

Anyone want to bet Zig does not have them in 6 months time?

Was that the set that sat at $202 for ages and then shot up?

[rodders]

Went for $380 PD. Sold to a nice bloke who is collecting sunday.

Had em for a couple of months but geezsus.... it was like having an ugly sister - you dont look at em all the time, but you know they are there!

[razaar]

Zig, you must have lucked out with the lie of your Callys. This is the big danger of buying these type of irons if you don't know your personal lie angles and overlook to enquire about those you are buying.

[razaar]

Went for $380 PD. Sold to a nice bloke who is collecting sunday.

Had em for a couple of months but geezsus.... it was like having an ugly sister - you dont look at em all the time, but you know they are there!
I think it works - beautiful clubs for a beautiful swing; not so beautiful clubs for a not so beautiful swing; ugly clubs for an ugly swing. Golf is not like some other other things.:wink:

[zigwah]

Thank fk I just sold my X-20 tours on ebay - they were scaring the neighbour's children!

Anyone want to bet Zig does not have them in 6 months time?

I'll have a hundred on it, what odds?

[virge666]

Say what! Both the 4 & 5 irons are the same length as my Mizunos & the lofts look very similar yet the ball comes out higher.

Lower COG mate - much higher launch.



How do they compare to some of your previous clubs, and how have they gone in the time that you have played them?

I think I may prefer the X20 just slightly - but I like the look of the X22 more. I think my Ego may leave me with the X22.

Mizuno Mp30 or MP60 would and is still my choice of forged irons... For slightly larger the Hogan FTX.



Hands down the best irons i have hit ever, from prosimmon crusaders to ram tour grinds, king cobra oversize, mcgregor the dr, mp33's, ping i3's, j33 combos, nak np 1's, KZG's and a handfull of others.

These are number one for forgiveness


No - they are not.. there are much more forgiving clubs out there. It is just that you have found a set of clubs that match your skill level much more.



Now isn't that a far cry from yesty's comments and thoughts Zig.

As i said, you can't go on absolute first impression, and forget what they freq'd per the scale. Very glad to see they worked out mate.

+1 on all that... and Zig.... TOLD YOU SO !!!!



As far as forgiving goes, they would be hard to beat.

you just don't get that pure "squish" that you get from a blade, but i think i can live with that

Yes you do. And you get it more often due to the club design.


Don't kill my buzz man :)

Trying not to mate... Ride that train.

[zigwah]

Well if there is more forgiving irons, i haven't hit them.

I have found that because the topline is half whatever they put on the face and half chrome that when addresing the ball, i only really notice the painted bit, don't even notice the chrome bit, making them not seem so shovelly.

The dilemma i have now is, that i have 6-PW with Stiff KBS tours soft stepped once, the ball flight is reasonably high and my consistant shot is out of the heel.

I have a set of KBS regs coming, wondering if i should hardstep them, straight away, or if i don't hardstep them and they are too soft is it going to throw the whole set out if i decide to have them hard stepped after having them cut to length and frequency mathed?

Or should i soft step the 6-PW set i have now, one more time to get right in between flexes and if they are suitable flog the regs uncut.

Is the consistant heel shot a sign of the shaft being too stiff?

[razaar]

It is in your swing, the hands are not returning through their address position. More than likely your ball position is too far back. With a 5 and 6 -iron the leading edge of the clubhead should be slightly ahead of centre at address, therefore the ball will be forward of that. There is also offset to consider and the hosel being closer to the body than the KZG's etc.

[zigwah]

ball is under my left nipple Raz

[razaar]

Does your posture have a tilt to the right?

[zigwah]

pretty sure it does, i have some vid of this morning on the camera, i'll try and get it up soonish

[virge666]

Stop trying to fix the tools !

Your trying to tune a car you can't drive yet