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View Full Version : The OZgolf cricket debates: Matthew Hayden



AndyP
24th January 2005, 11:57 AM
Where do we stand with Matt the Bat?

He is in some seriously poor form.

Has he ever really been suited to the one-day game? He was only picked for the one-day side in the first place, because of outstanding test cricket form.
Last night he had a big opportunity to make a score, and he still stuffed it up.

I don't think he should be dropped yet, as he has earnt a bit of a form slump (unlike others), but he can't keep failing like this for too much longer (but you wouldn't know with the Aust selectors).
We have already seen that Clarke is very capable of opening the batting.

Jarro
24th January 2005, 12:03 PM
i can't see him being dropped. He still is a very good cricketer.. he's just going thru a from slump, as all players do.

If we dropped every player that went thru a rough patch, nobody in the current side would still be there.

3oneday
24th January 2005, 12:27 PM
Where do we stand with Matt the Bat?

He is in some seriously poor form.

Has he ever really been suited to the one-day game? He was only picked for the one-day side in the first place, because of outstanding test cricket form.
Last night he had a big opportunity to make a score, and he still stuffed it up.

I don't think he should be dropped yet, as he has earnt a bit of a form slump (unlike others), but he can't keep failing like this for too much longer (but you wouldn't know with the Aust selectors).
We have already seen that Clarke is very capable of opening the batting.Andippy, seriously, can you call for his head and demand that he be dropped......

This is the only way he will score some runs, work your magic son :lol: :lol:

Bruce
24th January 2005, 12:29 PM
He will be retained in the 'rotation' but short of a turnaround, his opportunities will dwindle gradually. I am prepared to bet that he won't be part of the 2007 World Cup squad right now.

Hayden moved in when Mark Waugh retired/was-dropped and I think Golden Boy has shown that he will fill that role nicely. (notwithstanding the debacle of the last 5 overs last night being nursed to his ton by both Punter *and* the Pakis)

Fishman Dan
24th January 2005, 12:34 PM
Hayden moved in when Mark Waugh retired/was-dropped and I think Golden Boy has shown that he will fill that role nicely. (notwithstanding the debacle of the last 5 overs last night being nursed to his ton by both Punter *and* the Pakis)

You are a very bitter man. Saucer of milk anyone ;)

Yep, he was nursed to his ton (by the Paki's?) - and why not? We still won with 15 overs on the board.

They'll stick with Matt the Bat, but Clarke has proven beyond any doubt that he deserves an openers spot - if not now then in the near future. Clarke is currently batting too low however, and batting 1 spot below Crusty the Clown has to change (and will, no doubt).

McMw
24th January 2005, 12:39 PM
as long as they keep on winning, don't think much will be done...

but if this poor form continues in the ODI, it'll creep into his Test Match form, and that would be a big concern for the selectors...

do we really need Hayden in the ODI team??? don't think so...

Fishman Dan
24th January 2005, 12:43 PM
do we really need Hayden in the ODI team??? don't think so...

I agree - he's as good as any when he's going, but he's in a poor run of outs. The Gilchrist / Clarke combination could be the goods.... and they're both NSW'men ;) :lol:

I predict we'll see Hayden pulled out of the ODI team so he can continue to focus on his Test batting, as well as provide the longevity to stay fit.

AndyP
24th January 2005, 12:47 PM
Andippy, seriously, can you call for his head and demand that he be dropped......

This is the only way he will score some runs, work your magic son :lol: :lol:
:lol:
Sorry, not quite ready to do that yet.

AndyP
24th January 2005, 12:49 PM
The Gilchrist / Clarke combination could be the goods.... and they're both NSW'men ;) :lol:
Let me guess. Katich to come in to the side for Hayden.

Actually are you claiming Katich as a NSWelshman?

Fishman Dan
24th January 2005, 12:52 PM
The Gilchrist / Clarke combination could be the goods.... and they're both NSW'men ;) :lol:
Let me guess. Katich to come in to the side for Hayden.

Actually are you claiming Katich as a NSWelshman?

:smt017 :smt102

AndyP
24th January 2005, 01:22 PM
The Gilchrist / Clarke combination could be the goods.... and they're both NSW'men ;) :lol:
Let me guess. Katich to come in to the side for Hayden.

Actually are you claiming Katich as a NSWelshman?

:smt017 :smt102
Well, doesn't the success of the Australian team depend on having as many players from NSW in the side as possible?

Bruce
24th January 2005, 02:30 PM
Hayden moved in when Mark Waugh retired/was-dropped and I think Golden Boy has shown that he will fill that role nicely. (notwithstanding the debacle of the last 5 overs last night being nursed to his ton by both Punter *and* the Pakis)

You are a very bitter man. Saucer of milk anyone ;)

Yep, he was nursed to his ton (by the Paki's?) - and why not? We still won with 15 overs on the board.

They'll stick with Matt the Bat, but Clarke has proven beyond any doubt that he deserves an openers spot - if not now then in the near future. Clarke is currently batting too low however, and batting 1 spot below Crusty the Clown has to change (and will, no doubt).

Did I really sound bitter?

Golden Boy is ready to open right here, right now, and *will* be opening the innings in 2007. Hayden needs to find something else or he will find himself in a managed exit strategy.

And I rated the Pakis as complacent in getting Clarke to the ton for both the dropped catch on 97, which would have been a bad miss in park cricket, and for the lazy captaincy that saw very clearly what was happening but didn't act to try and change things. Inzy just let the game meander along - like always.
My biggest problem was that the last 5 runs kind of overshadowed the previous 95 which were just awesome. The boy can bat.

CobraSS
25th January 2005, 10:58 AM
I would have deliberately bowled a wide so he didn't get his 100, but that's just me :lol:

Bruce
25th January 2005, 12:19 PM
Exactly Cobra - or at least something to make things interesting.

Here's a hypothetical idea. I think at one point Clarke needed 5 of the last 7 runs. So perhaps the bowler 'slips' and sends down a rank ball a mile wide of leg stump that goes for 4 wides. Clarke now needs 5 of the last 2 runs and must hit a boundary if he wants the ton. The field is then placed to stop the 4 rather than the stupid point of bringing everyone in to stop the last single with 15 overs still remaining and Clarke only needing to pierce the field for the 100. He can have the single and still win the game but how bad does he want three figures? Force him to go hard and risk it all. It would have given the Pakis a chance to take a tiny little phyrric victory out of the game instead of the complete rout they ended up with.

Just a "what if" scenario that Inzy could have considered.

Fishman Dan
25th January 2005, 12:24 PM
Just a "what if" scenario that Inzy could have considered.

Perhaps Inzi checked the odds of a Clarkey ton before the game ;)

gazgolf1
25th January 2005, 12:25 PM
When does the footy season start. :wink:

AndyP
25th January 2005, 12:38 PM
When does the footy season start. :wink:
24 days until pre-season.
58 days until round 1.
8)

3oneday
25th January 2005, 12:59 PM
When does the footy season start. :wink:
24 days until pre-season.
58 days until round 1.
8)real footy, or that arial tripe you and fish dribble over ??

Fishman Dan
25th January 2005, 01:08 PM
Hey Rain Man - how long until State of Origin :?: :twisted:

Oh, and Pete, that would be "aerial"... but not bad for the Doggies supporter. Pre-Season..... shouldn't that mean your team is out terrorising some small-time country town at the moment?

Jarro
25th January 2005, 02:50 PM
Hey Rain Man - how long until State of Origin :?: :twisted:

Oh, and Pete, that would be "aerial"... but not bad for the Doggies supporter. Pre-Season..... shouldn't that mean your team is out terrorising some small-time country town at the moment?

.. yeah i heard they were heading out to Casino.

3oneday
25th January 2005, 02:55 PM
Hey Rain Man - how long until State of Origin :?: :twisted:

Oh, and Pete, that would be "aerial"... but not bad for the Doggies supporter. Pre-Season..... shouldn't that mean your team is out terrorising some small-time country town at the moment?and it took me three goes to spell it rong :oops: :wink:

About to embark on their overseas jaunt, something about being Premiers ??? not sure, think that was the reason :P , next couple of weeks we should be back in the news :P :shock:

Pete :P

Fishman Dan
25th January 2005, 03:15 PM
.. yeah i heard they were heading out to Casino.

There's enough good quality league-gene's around there at the moment without the need for the Doggies to go around sewing their seed. With the likes of Ben Kennedy and the King boys, the Casino 1st XIII would be a pretty good squad.

Onewood
31st January 2005, 07:22 AM
Hayden has got to go for the finals, along with Symons :evil: enough is enough, these guys are putting to much presure on everybody else....

Clarke to open, Watson to come in for Symons and leave Katich in 8)

Game over no one will touch a side that is in form rather than a side thats trying to get some form back :D

3oneday
31st January 2005, 07:36 AM
Hayden has got to go for the finals, along with Symons :evil: enough is enough, these guys are putting to much presure on everybody else....

Clarke to open, Watson to come in for Symons and leave Katich in 8)

Game over no one will touch a side that is in form rather than a side thats trying to get some form back :Dpretty much spot on, although I've still got my doubts about Watson, he bowls with pace but doesn't seem to be doing much with it. There does seem to be more of an argument for a decent slow bowler rather than another quick, ie the quicker they bowl the quicker they hit the fence :D

Pete

Fishman Dan
31st January 2005, 08:16 AM
Has to happen, you can't keep gambling on Haydo's return to form.

Symond's got a start, looked in complete control and played his standard loose shot to throw it all away. Mind you, pretty good catch and equally ar$ey runout was good to watch. His bowling was pretty average - but he's not a 10-over bloke!

Ponting's captaincy again failed. Giving Youhana and Inzi 6 per over in easy singles for 10 overs was boring to watch, they did it too easy. Symonds/Clarke/Katich should have combined as the 5th bowler.

AndyP
31st January 2005, 09:23 AM
Clarke to open, Watson to come in for Symons and leave Katich in 8)
I think you will find that Lehmann, at least, will come into the side.



Re Symonds
His bowling was pretty average - but he's not a 10-over bloke!
You didn't think his last 3 overs going for 40+ was top bowling? :roll:


It will be interesting to see what the selectors do for the finals. With their track record, I can't see them dropping Hayden. :smt011
It also looks like Watson is out of favour, and Hogg failed with both bat and ball last night.
All-rounder position still looks open.

Bruce
31st January 2005, 11:34 AM
Last night should also have put to rest the idea of playing Brett Lee back into the side. On a WACA track where he should have terrorised batsmen according to his reputation - he went for 8+ runs an over.

Even my wife has noticed it. "Gee, he gets hit for a lot of 4s doesn't he." If the level of understanding of this nuffy's problems has reached her then it must be completely obvious to the selection committee. CUT HIM LOOSE!! He is a completely one dimensional bowler.

Fishman Dan
31st January 2005, 11:45 AM
Last night should also have put to rest the idea of playing Brett Lee back into the side. On a WACA track where he should have terrorised batsmen according to his reputation - he went for 8+ runs an over.

Even my wife has noticed it. "Gee, he gets hit for a lot of 4s doesn't he." If the level of understanding of this nuffy's problems has reached her then it must be completely obvious to the selection committee. CUT HIM LOOSE!! He is a completely one dimensional bowler.

Bruce, i figured you for a top bloke, and the Duff-man avatar is a gem, but listening to the missus about cricket tactics is a no-no [-X . All they notice is 4's, wickets (if it's clean-bowled), and any jewellry a player might be wearing.

FYI - Symonds - 65 off 9 (7+ per over). Hogg 71 off 10 (7+ per over), Lee 9.2 overs, 63 runs (just about 7 per over) - Lee's final 2 balls going for 4 didn't help, but i don't think he was the culprit here.

In the middle overs when the game was to be won, Symond's spell brought them back into the game. Factor in Lee's batting over the past couple of games, i don't think there's any room for Kaspa 8)

3oneday
31st January 2005, 11:49 AM
Andippy, seriously, can you call for his head and demand that he be dropped......

This is the only way he will score some runs, work your magic son :lol: :lol:
:lol:
Sorry, not quite ready to do that yet.well ???? now would be a good time :lol: :lol:

AndyP
31st January 2005, 11:50 AM
Factor in Lee's batting over the past couple of games, i don't think there's any room for Kaspa 8)
Fishy, you forgot to mention his fielding. After all, isn't that what the selectors look at (with an exception for Boof). ;)




Andippy, seriously, can you call for his head and demand that he be dropped......

This is the only way he will score some runs, work your magic son :lol: :lol:
:lol:
Sorry, not quite ready to do that yet.well ???? now would be a good time :lol: :lol:
Gaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn! :lol:

-----------------

It's been a while since a Qld'er has commented on Hayden or Symonds? :-k Sulking? :razz:

Bruce
31st January 2005, 12:52 PM
Last night should also have put to rest the idea of playing Brett Lee back into the side. On a WACA track where he should have terrorised batsmen according to his reputation - he went for 8+ runs an over.

Even my wife has noticed it. "Gee, he gets hit for a lot of 4s doesn't he." If the level of understanding of this nuffy's problems has reached her then it must be completely obvious to the selection committee. CUT HIM LOOSE!! He is a completely one dimensional bowler.

Bruce, i figured you for a top bloke, and the Duff-man avatar is a gem, but listening to the missus about cricket tactics is a no-no [-X . All they notice is 4's, wickets (if it's clean-bowled), and any jewellry a player might be wearing.

FYI - Symonds - 65 off 9 (7+ per over). Hogg 71 off 10 (7+ per over), Lee 9.2 overs, 63 runs (just about 7 per over) - Lee's final 2 balls going for 4 didn't help, but i don't think he was the culprit here.

In the middle overs when the game was to be won, Symond's spell brought them back into the game. Factor in Lee's batting over the past couple of games, i don't think there's any room for Kaspa 8)

I'm not exonerating the performance of others. I wanted to make sure chainsaw boy got his bollocking too. Symonds must have photos of AB and Hohns in the showers together or something. It seems the only possible explanation as to why he is in the side. It is nearly 2 years since the World Cup in which time he has done nothing. Let him go. Hogg is borderline. Apart from last night he has been OK, but I won't shed a tear if they drop him to try someone like a Cam White.

Jarro
31st January 2005, 04:28 PM
although neither of them have made many runs this summer, Hayden and Symonds will feature in the ODI finals series ...... Punter and the rest of the selectors have openly stated that ... 8)

... so get used to it boys :P :lol:

AndyP
1st February 2005, 09:25 AM
although neither of them have made many runs this summer, Hayden and Symonds will feature in the ODI finals series ...... Punter and the rest of the selectors have openly stated that ... 8)
Ponting isn't a selector, and that must have been some guy that just looked like Allan Border, who stated that Hayden's position would be "assessed" for the finals. :roll: In other words, he's in trouble.

Jarro
1st February 2005, 05:48 PM
although neither of them have made many runs this summer, Hayden and Symonds will feature in the ODI finals series ...... Punter and the rest of the selectors have openly stated that ... 8)
Ponting isn't a selector, and that must have been some guy that just looked like Allan Border, who stated that Hayden's position would be "assessed" for the finals. :roll: In other words, he's in trouble.

since when has a captain never had a say in who's in his side. You mean to tell me Steve Waugh never had a say in who was in any of his teams :roll:

Alan Border is well known to give players a spray in the media in order to get them to respond. I know he said that Hayden was on thin ice.. but he never said that he was out of the team.

Fishman Dan
1st February 2005, 05:54 PM
Alan Border is well known to give players a spray in the media in order to get them to respond. I know he said that Hayden was on thin ice.. but he never said that he was out of the team.

Most players respond when their names come up. I reckon he just needs a bit of luck and he'll post a big score.

That Afridi catch the other day... he never looked like getting it, and if you watch the replay it pretty much hit him in the left-hand and just stuck there! He was the most surprised of anyone.

AndyP
4th February 2005, 02:06 PM
Surprise, Surprise, Hayden has been dropped. :roll:
It's going to be a tough slog for him to get back in now, even though Future Boy just had a failure.
Could this be the end of his one day career?

Couple of other changes too.
Kaspa has also been dropped for Brett Lee, which seems a bit rough.
And Hogg to 12th man for Watson.

Jarro
4th February 2005, 05:00 PM
i can see one change they'll make.... Hayden back in opening, and Lehman to get the flick :roll:

Good to see Symonds get amongst the runs again :D

terryand
4th February 2005, 05:12 PM
Pity Futureboy couldn't handle the pressure of replacing one of the games' greats.....

Big shoes to fill http://deephousepage.com/smilies/walksmil.gif

Terry.

gazgolf1
4th February 2005, 05:48 PM
i can see one change they'll make.... Hayden back in opening, and Lehman to get the flick :roll:

Good to see Symonds get amongst the runs again :D

I can't understand how that fat clown Boofhead Lehmann keeps getting a game...he's scored a grand total of 83 runs for the entire 1 day series and he gets a Golden Duck today trying to reverse sweep the first ball he faced.How many up and coming good young players has this overrated goose kept out of the Australian side. :roll:

Jarro
4th February 2005, 05:58 PM
i can see one change they'll make.... Hayden back in opening, and Lehman to get the flick :roll:

Good to see Symonds get amongst the runs again :D

I can't understand how that fat clown Boofhead Lehmann keeps getting a game...he's scored a grand total of 83 runs for the entire 1 day series and he gets a Golden Duck today trying to reverse sweep the first ball he faced.How many up and coming good young players has this overrated goose kept out of the Australian side. :roll:

..add to that the fact that he's probably the worst fielder you've ever seen :roll:

He's gotta go :x

AndyP
4th February 2005, 08:19 PM
i can see one change they'll make.... Hayden back in opening, and Lehman to get the flick :roll:
I can't understand how that fat clown Boofhead Lehmann keeps getting a game...
..add to that the fact that he's probably the worst fielder you've ever seen :roll:

He's gotta go :x
I'm not a Lehmann fan, and I want him to go. But I have heard that he is the unofficial captain of the side (surely he can't be any worse than Ponting), a leader within the team. I can't think of any other reason that he would be in the side. Although I was astonished to see that his ODI bowling average was only 26.

Only 83 runs, and he scored most of those in one of his innings. Pretty poor return for a batsmen.

They supposedly dropped Bevan because they wanted to build the team for the 2007 World Cup. So why is Lehmann in the side, when there is no way he will still be around then.

McMw
4th February 2005, 11:47 PM
good point....WHY did Bevan get dropped??? :(

Ducky
4th February 2005, 11:55 PM
Because he plays for Tasmania now, and one Tasmanian in the Australian team is more than enough.

:P

Kind regards,

Ben (Ducky).

Jarro
5th February 2005, 06:55 AM
good point....WHY did Bevan get dropped??? :(

for the exact reason AndyP said earlier .... the ACB wanted to build a younger side for the 2007 World Cup .... and Bevan didn't fit into their plans.

Which in itself is just another reason to ditch Lehman, how bloody old will he be in 2007 :shock:

McMw
5th February 2005, 01:12 PM
lehman must be the "office" boy in the ACB admin.... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Fishman Dan
5th February 2005, 10:20 PM
good point....WHY did Bevan get dropped??? :(

More to the point - why'd NSW get rid of him? He's made a billion runs for TAS this year.

Jarro
6th February 2005, 06:00 AM
stands to reason Fishy, once they knew he wasn't any longer needed for the Aussie team.. there was no way he was going to still have a home in the Blues side.

Onewood
6th February 2005, 07:56 AM
Bevo, is getting on and seen the Tassie experience, more as a money thing :roll:

Fishman Dan
6th February 2005, 08:49 AM
Well, i'm off to the cricket - i'm guessing we'll see Hayden in the team at the expense of Katich.

If so, strange concept. I thought Katich would be better suited to the SCG pitch, and he could bowl if required.

Chalk up another big 'X' for captain Ponting ;)

damoocow
6th February 2005, 08:32 PM
Fishy - I think you will find Katich will be a permanent fixture in the one day team after Final One and his unsportsman like failure to walk when clearly caught behind - he will fit in well with the poor sport psyche of the team.

damoocow

Fishman Dan
6th February 2005, 10:12 PM
We fell over the line again tonight, due to the Paki's inability to maintain a structured innings. That score tonight was 30 short of what we should have scored.

The Mail: A heated discussion has been witnessed between M. Hayden and A. Border in the dressing room. At times Hayden is said to have looked frustrated and heated.

We'll await the team to tour NZ.

Onewood
7th February 2005, 06:53 AM
Dan, what was the Atmosphere like when Glenn McGrath walked out 8)

Do you think the bean ball Lee bowled was a little pay back :D

3oneday
7th February 2005, 07:15 AM
The Mail: A heated discussion has been witnessed between M. Hayden and A. Border in the dressing room. At times Hayden is said to have looked frustrated and heated.
Couldn't really imagine AB taking a backward step.

Fishman Dan
7th February 2005, 08:18 AM
Dan, what was the Atmosphere like when Glenn McGrath walked out 8)

Do you think the bean ball Lee bowled was a little pay back :D

There was a standing ove for Pidge when he walked out to bat, it was quite extroadinary. Kerry O'Keefe commented on the fact that he was 5 runs off 100 career ODI runs, but he suggested that he'd end the match 5 runs short too. It was hilarious when he raised the bat (2 inside edges later) for his 100.

The beamer certainly was payback. Again, a big fat red X for Ponting. As soon as Razzaq came to the crease Lee was in Punter's ear - he wanted first crack at Razzaq, and any half-decent captain would have given it to him, and it what the cricket loving crowd wanted to see. Lee was warming up for some time before finally being given the ball. As a fast bowler myself (in my prime), i would have been doing the same thing.

It was a shame that he resorted to a beamer, but it was coming and was well deserved. There were 2 or 3 very good quick short balls in the over prior - all below the shoulders too so he could have bowled 6 if he wanted to. Rudy was quick to point out the beamer and warn Bing and Punter.

Jarro
7th February 2005, 10:10 PM
The Mail: A heated discussion has been witnessed between M. Hayden and A. Border in the dressing room. At times Hayden is said to have looked frustrated and heated.
Couldn't really imagine AB taking a backward step.

I CAN :shock:

.. Hayden is not exactly a little guy.

terryand
7th February 2005, 10:21 PM
The Mail: A heated discussion has been witnessed between M. Hayden and A. Border in the dressing room. At times Hayden is said to have looked frustrated and heated.
Couldn't really imagine AB taking a backward step.

I CAN :shock:

.. Hayden is not exactly a little guy.

And AB is.....and old to boot.

Terry.