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Eag's
10th August 2009, 02:36 PM
I have never really given to much thought to ball position except maybe with the Driver. Where do you guys and gals play your irons? Do you keep a constant position for all clubs or do you move it back in your stance when using more lofted clubs.?
Also with bunker shots where should the ball be middle, forward etc...?

Grunt
10th August 2009, 02:39 PM
I have been playing the irons with the ball too far forward, hence me hitting it left. Taking more notice that I am stepping it back with the shorter irons.

AndyP
10th August 2009, 02:40 PM
I struggle a little with ball position too. I'm reading Pelz at the moment and he is saying how vital it is, otherwise you compensate in your swing.

Bunker = Front heel

virge666
10th August 2009, 02:41 PM
Under your left tit for everything... it is just before the low point of your swing.

Adjust your stance width to wider for longer clubs and narrow for shorter clubs.

Yossarian
10th August 2009, 02:44 PM
Under your left tit for everything... it is just before the low point of your swing.

Adjust your stance width to wider for longer clubs and narrow for shorter clubs.

Wow I've actually been doing something right.

Jarro
10th August 2009, 02:49 PM
Thanks for the tip Virge ... i've almost got it right ;)

Eag's
10th August 2009, 02:55 PM
Yeah I think I let my position wander a bit during rounds. Heading to the range tomorrow to try out the left tit position ;)

Pieface
10th August 2009, 03:04 PM
I have been playing the irons with the ball too far forward, hence me hitting it left. Taking more notice that I am stepping it back with the shorter irons.


I'll try to remember this point. I have been going left on my well struck shots lately and I think the ball has been creeping forward.

razaar
10th August 2009, 04:13 PM
Depends on the shot you choose to play and the topography (slopes etc) you have to play from. The important thing is to have the ball positioned at the bottom of your swing. If you are in the habit of taking one or more practice swings before a shot, use this as an opportunity to see where the bottom of your swing is for that shot and set up over the ball with that info.

moree golfer
11th August 2009, 08:29 AM
I was reading Arnie's tips on the Golf Digest webpage and he has a different approach for different clubs as follows:

HOW TO ADJUST YOUR STANCE Generally, the less lofted the club, the shallower the angle of attack should be; the more lofted the club, the more descending the angle should be.
With the driver and fairway woods, your stance should be fairly wide and square to support the long, sweeping swing required to hit these clubs. But as you go through the bag, to the long, middle and short irons, you should progressively narrow and open your stance to set up an increasingly descending downswing.
You'll find that positioning your feet in relation to the length of the shaft—open and narrow with short clubs; wide and more square with longer ones—is easy to get used to.
WHAT I THINK TODAY
Opening the stance for short clubs also pre-sets the body pivot through impact. You don't need power with these clubs, but you do need control.

Golfnut
11th August 2009, 10:45 AM
What's classified as mid irons these days as most people don't play 2i or 3i's anymore......7, 6, 5??

3oneday
11th August 2009, 11:05 AM
What happens if your breasts move when you swing ?

Lucasto23
11th August 2009, 11:20 AM
3, i thought you sorted that problem out already ;)

Andrew_S
11th August 2009, 11:28 AM
I thought different people continue to validly argue different philosophies when it comes to ball position.

I could be doing this all wrong, but I tend to play the shorter clubs closer to my front foot and my longer irons closer to the middle. I find I get a higher ball flight/spin when the ball is further front and can really hit down on the ball.

During a lesson it was explained to me that putting the ball back further in the stance reduces the chances of chunking it. Someone smarter than me could probably explain why, though I'm certain there's probably a counter argument that also makes sense.

AndyP
11th August 2009, 11:35 AM
During a lesson it was explained to me that putting the ball back further in the stance reduces the chances of chunking it. Someone smarter than me could probably explain why, though I'm certain there's probably a counter argument that also makes sense.There is less chance of chunking it because it is closer to where the natural low point of your swing is.

Eag's
11th August 2009, 11:39 AM
Just got home from a long range session where I tried Virge's left tit position.
I was certainly hitting the ball a lot more solid than usual, even taking real divots.:shock: I can normally carry a sand bucket a whole round and use maybe half of it if I am lucky.
The other thing I tried today was to put the club more in my fingers in my left hand rather than to much in the palm.
It seemed to help me generate a lot more club head speed and shots were coming out of the middle more often 8-)

ParMaster
11th August 2009, 12:11 PM
Good for you Eags.

As for me, I normally place the ball in the middle of my stance for the irons and woods and on the short irons (7,8,9,PW) I play it slightly further back. Almost off my back foot.

Where abouts do you guys place the ball when your putting? For me it's still middle of the stance.

Jarro
11th August 2009, 12:15 PM
yeah nice work Eagsy 8)

I also went to the range today to try this out, and found it to really be beneficial with the shorter irons .... i was hitting them so much better/straighter :)

virge666
11th August 2009, 12:21 PM
As for me, I normally place the ball in the middle of my stance for the irons and woods and on the short irons (7,8,9,PW) I play it slightly further back. Almost off my back foot.
.

This is because you have very very little lower body rotation in your swing. - having the ball further back stops you from hitting it fat.

2" inches in front of your sternum for putting.

ParMaster
11th August 2009, 12:24 PM
I'm trying to work on my swing now so we'll see how that works out in a month.

Do you think i need the ball further forward?

virge666
11th August 2009, 12:31 PM
I'm trying to work on my swing now so we'll see how that works out in a month.

Do you think i need the ball further forward?

You play off a handicap of 1 . . . 'nuf said.

But if you want more power - you are going to have bring you lower body into play. It will give you rotation and a little more oomph.

Have a look at Allenby's swing for an exaggeration.

ParMaster
11th August 2009, 12:34 PM
Nah I'm chopping it off 2 virge. :)

Thanks for the advice. What are some good drills to work in bringing my lower body into the swing though?

virge666
11th August 2009, 12:56 PM
Chopping off 2... nice.

Tiger's practice swing is my favourite.

rebjon
11th August 2009, 07:16 PM
Chopping off 2... nice.

Tiger's practice swing is my favourite.

What about GE and RSS Virge....

What is the recommended ball position from your experiance ????

adlo
11th August 2009, 07:41 PM
Probably what he said earlier mang :roll:

mike
11th August 2009, 09:51 PM
I would've thought everybody would be different.

The last lesson I had, the coach had me hitting everything from 3 wood to wedge from the centre of my stance. Took some getting used to but it works for me.

I used to have the ball too far forward resulting in lots of thinned shots. Yukko. I now hit the ball much much more consistently.

adlo
11th August 2009, 09:53 PM
Tend to agree Mike, but Virge does seem to know his stuff.

I play 6 iron down from the middle.
Hybrids down to 5 iron a few inches forward of middle.
Driver and 3 wood close to inside of left heel.

uahmad
12th August 2009, 08:01 PM
obviously left tit if you're right handed right?

virge666
12th August 2009, 10:39 PM
Guys - Look at the logic.

Low point of the swing is under the left shoulder - pretty much is for all players if your left arm is straightish at impact.

Now another concensous is that the low point of the swing is about 4 inches in front of the ball. I think this is a "golfing machine" thing, and the are pretty good on the technical shit.

So - 4 inches back from your left shoulder is around your left tit. So if you put the ball under your left tit wih all clubs . . . then in theory, your ball should be in the perfect position at impact.

Now as your clubs get into the longer clubs . . . you need a more shallow angle into the ball - so all you do it widen your stance to shallow it out. But just keep the ball under your left tit for all of it.

Golfnut
12th August 2009, 10:45 PM
I've struggled a little with ball position so I'll be trying this next time i'm at the range Virge....all sounds good in theory.

Next question is......where should the hands be if the club head is forward of centre using the left tit theory?

DracZ
12th August 2009, 11:09 PM
virge - thanks for the tip, tried it out today at the range and it seems to be working. seems to also set your spine angle at the perfect tilt, no more reverse pivot etc.

chappy1970
29th October 2009, 09:54 AM
My game off the tee has been slowly but surely pulling my game apart. I am really happy with my iron play and the new hybrid has been a revelation. Putting has been a little off recently, but I attribute that to my limited playign schedule.

Driving the ball and the three dog has been crucifying me of late and after some research and actually thinking about the ball flight I am currently getting (as well as reading some posts in this thread) I a have deduced that I am playing the ball a little too far forward in my stance for these two clubs.

I am going to play the 3 dog close to centre, where the irons are played from and the big dog an inch or 2 forward of that.

The ball flight has been on a good trajectory but always with a right to left, virging on more of a hook than a draw. I have been getting good distance but need to make alignment adjustments for the ball flight. I think that if I can sort this out i can get back into single digits (currnetly on 9.5 = 10) as the last few outings have been a disaster and incredibly frustrating.

Chappy

razaar
29th October 2009, 10:22 AM
Chappy it may not be ball position but in your arm swing and the club's relationship with the left forearm. At the top of the backswing the shaft and clubface have to be aligned with the left forearm to get consistant results. Sometimes we get in the habit of letting the left wrist bow to the right in the backswing which gets the club laid off and the alignment with the left forearm is lost. The pros get get away with it because they have eliminated all slack from their swing and use their body turn to return the clubhead through the ball position. Before blaming ball position I'd check that you are not losing control of the clubhead during the takeaway.

chappy1970
29th October 2009, 10:36 AM
Cheers Raz.

Q's - If I am not experiencing the same result with the clubs that are used with a decending blow as opposed to that of the driver, will this be a swing fault. Purely a question.

razaar
29th October 2009, 10:46 AM
Yes. The more lofted clubs produce more backspin which reduces the side spin factor. The ball runs up the face on a less oblique angle with the more lofted clubs. Does that make sense to you?

chappy1970
29th October 2009, 11:03 AM
It does, my query was that if the probable cause that you outlined in post #33 was resident in my swing, wouldn't it affect all the clubs rather than just the driver/3wd?

I am having good success with all other clubs (except the f%^ken flat stick, it's got me beat at the moment).

All advice gladly accepted.

chappy1970
29th October 2009, 11:05 AM
Raz I just re-read your post, cancel the above query.

If I have the ball running up the face of the driver, I think I am in a spot of bother.

razaar
29th October 2009, 11:13 AM
I know your dilema. I raised the club/arm alignment issue because there is a tendancy with the longer shafts to bring the clubhead around the body and forget about c0cking the wrists upwards. You will be the best judge about this.

chappy1970
29th October 2009, 11:17 AM
I am certainly an expert on c0cking things up from the tee at the moment.

Hopefully utilising a combination of what you have mentioned and what I believe is the root cause, I can report back after Sunday mornings round in a more affirmative manor.

razaar
29th October 2009, 11:24 AM
Raz I just re-read your post, cancel the above query.

If I have the ball running up the face of the driver, I think I am in a spot of bother.
Chappy, no no no! A downward blow with the driver will produce more backspin than a level and upward blow, its the clubface being oblique with the swing path that creates the side spin. The less loft the more side spin. In a full drive the clubhead will swing through the ball in excess of 100mph.the time the ball is in contact with the clubhead at this speed is 0.0005 seconds which is a quarter of an inch.

chappy1970
29th October 2009, 11:56 AM
I understand Raz, I was merely mocking my poor form with the driver at the moment.

3oneday
29th October 2009, 12:47 PM
I prefer my ball to be positioned on the green.

henno
29th October 2009, 07:00 PM
The "everything under the left tit" works fine for full shots, but what about spinny squirters, or soft, high shots, and chips and pitches. I assume (depending on the club in hand) that the ball position is moved back/forward in these cases?

At least I do. :-k

virge666
29th October 2009, 08:43 PM
The "everything under the left tit" works fine for full shots, but what about spinny squirters, or soft, high shots, and chips and pitches. I assume (depending on the club in hand) that the ball position is moved back/forward in these cases?


Ball forward = higher flight
Ball back = lower flight.

I think that is from the school of the bleeding obvious... isn't it ?

Love the descriptions though...

One thing I will add - to get more spin, you need clubhead speed, not a steeper angle of attack. (very important to know the difference)

Choppers move the ball back to make it spin.
Better players just compress the ball.

zigwah
29th October 2009, 08:54 PM
Trap it :)

henno
29th October 2009, 10:05 PM
I think that is from the school of the bleeding obvious... isn't it ?

Yeah, but I went to the school of the bleeding hopeless so occasionally I need to know I'm barking up the right tree. 8-)

idgolfguy
30th October 2009, 12:49 AM
Guys - Look at the logic.

Low point of the swing is under the left shoulder - pretty much is for all players if your left arm is straightish at impact.

Now another concensous is that the low point of the swing is about 4 inches in front of the ball. I think this is a "golfing machine" thing, and the are pretty good on the technical shit.

So - 4 inches back from your left shoulder is around your left tit. So if you put the ball under your left tit wih all clubs . . . then in theory, your ball should be in the perfect position at impact...

In his book, The Impact Zone, Bobby Clampett talked about some research that he did that showed that the better the player, the further the low point of the divot was in front of the ball. For professionals, this was measured to be 4-6 inches. It stands to reason that with full extension and flat left (or target wrist) just after impact, the club head is furtherest away at that point.

For most of us who aren't professional and don't have 'golf-tuned' muscles, that ball position may vary slightly until we are warmed up. Some days we just don't sync well and may pay to move the ball forward or back depending on our dynamics at that time.

Clampett's book is a good read, even if you you don't agree with everything he espouses.

chappy1970
2nd November 2009, 08:20 AM
Just an update on my results from the weekend.

I finished with 32 points, which may sound average, but considering I was coming from a particularly low base over the past few months avg 23 - 27 points, I was happy.

My form from the tee showed some improvement, but inconsistency still penalised me.
Putting was my big enemy yesterday, with the dew on the greens not disapating for the whole round, in fact, half of the round I had the umbrella up due to the constent dew/mist/light drizzle. I just couldn't talk myself into hitting the pill hard enough on the greens and conservatively I probably cost myself between 6-8 shots with my lack of agreesion when needed. It wasn't until teh last 5 holes that the greens quickened up and I was able to give the ball enough of a rap to get it to the hole, this contributed to my scole of -1 for the last 5 holes.

Has my game turned the corner, don't know, but it was better.

chappy1970
17th May 2010, 12:42 PM
Virge's post #29, more specifically, playing all my decending blow shots from under the left tit changed my game yesterday.

After a very average front nine I tinkered with moving the ball position to (as above), coupled with the necessary spine tilt at address I have neglected for so long allowed me to craft a handy 35 (-1) off the stick on the back nine.

Cheers Virge