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edhannan
19th June 2009, 01:38 PM
Apologies if this thread should be in Golf Matters rather than here.
There are several recent mentions of a drill (one-foot back, ball-striking, compression) described by Shawn Clement. They got me browsing through his instructional vids on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=493A6D197446DD67).

Clement has posted 84 vids there covering a pretty full range of golf issues from short chips to full swing. I like some of what I see, not so sure about others and not expert enough to distinguish lead from gold.

What do you see the collection that you'd recommend? wouldn't? And why?

razaar
19th June 2009, 02:19 PM
Anything that makes the ball go where you want it to go is good. Basically that is what it is all about - getting the ball from A to B in as few hits as one can manage. For the present, I would only use those drills that fit in with your concept of what a golf swing is. Can you put into words your concept of a golf swing? It will help you if you can and might give others here something to work with in making suggestions.:)

edhannan
19th June 2009, 03:35 PM
Fair enough. I subscribe to Gary Edwin’s right-sided swing approach and gradually am reshaping my swing to that model. Like most converts to that approach (unlike beginner golfers) my main learning tasks are “unlearning” many aspects of a more conventional swing. Here’s how I understand the right-sided swing.
Body angles at address affect all that follows. Edwin swingers set up into their left side (for right handed golfers) so that the left side, shoulder through hip and foot, are perpendicular. A slight axis tilt and relatively wide stance gives a reverse-K look. A pronounced spine angle lets the arms hand straight down from the shoulders. Hands slightly ahead of the clubhead create a shaft lean. In many respects, the set-up at address previews the impact position.
The set up at address establishes the swing radius (distance between sternum and clubhead) that remains constant throughout. The wrists are set at address and do not change much, if at all, throughout the swing. The hands stay in front of the chest through the backswing, downswing, at impact and in the follow through.
In the backswing, there is very little, if any, lateral movement. From address to the top, the sequence is hands, arms, shoulders and hips. The left side stays forward against the wall. The shoulder turn is relatively flat. The right side turns back from the target line as though one were drawing back to deliver a punch.
From the top, the shoulders stay closed to the target as the arms and right shoulder drop on plane to the delivery position. The release is a body release with the right hip coming around the left (rather than the left spinning out of the way).
In general, the swing is very compact, visually simple and quite effective when properly executed. In theory, if you set and maintain your body angles correctly, you can swing your arms as hard as you want. I’m not there yet.

razaar
19th June 2009, 05:17 PM
Good stuff. Any drill that helps with feeling the club head would be a good one. Feeling the club head means feeling the clubhead in the backswing from hip high (parallel with the target line) to shoulder high (@ 45% angle) to just under parallel (top of b/swing).
Feel the club head -
hold the club straight up, can't feel the clubhead (too light);
hold the club straight out, feel all the club head (too heavy);
Hold the club at 45%, in between (just right).

You will need a strong left side for this swing type and very flexible quadratus lumborum muscles to keep the hips stable during the swing. Maybe you need to identify exercises and stretches which compliment this swing type if you are having problems.

http://www.floota.com/QuadratusLumborumStretch1.html

edhannan
19th June 2009, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the website reference, Razaar. I didn't know I had a quadratus lumborum.

adlo
19th June 2009, 09:18 PM
Looking through the Edwin book/vids we got through the GE syndicate......

This may be a stupid question but I would appreciate thoughts here. What is the best way to try and make swing changes? I will try and explain..... it is hard to know if you are performing drills and swing changes as they are intended. If you do not have access to a coach, what is the next best thing?

razaar
19th June 2009, 09:25 PM
Looking through the Edwin book/vids we got through the GE syndicate......

This may be a stupid question but I would appreciate thoughts here. What is the best way to try and make swing changes? I will try and explain..... it is hard to know if you are performing drills and swing changes as they are intended. If you do not have access to a coach, what is the next best thing?

Are we talking about improving our golf game i.e shooting lower scores or something else?

adlo
19th June 2009, 09:27 PM
Can you explain Raz?

ddasey
19th June 2009, 09:37 PM
Looking through the Edwin book/vids we got through the GE syndicate......

This may be a stupid question but I would appreciate thoughts here. What is the best way to try and make swing changes? I will try and explain..... it is hard to know if you are performing drills and swing changes as they are intended. If you do not have access to a coach, what is the next best thing?

Adlo, good question.

Out of interest what do you think of the GE syndicate material??

adlo
19th June 2009, 09:39 PM
Quite good. I thought the vids might be a bit more thorough, but perfect for someone such as myself.

I don't see what Virge would get out of it. Seems like GE 101.

henno
19th June 2009, 09:41 PM
I don't see what Virge would get out of it. Seems like GE 101.

My thoughts exactly. Simple for a doofus like me, but I wonder what value would be gained for the dedicated GE disciple.

just
19th June 2009, 09:42 PM
Worth what we paid, but I don't know if I would be happy if I had to shell out the $90 odd asking price.

ddasey
19th June 2009, 09:43 PM
I have been slowly getting through the book and so far I like what I see.

I am real keen on giving this a crack.

Maybe we should start a new GE thread and bribe Virge to assist with questions / tips.

adlo
19th June 2009, 09:44 PM
Good point Just!

adlo
19th June 2009, 09:44 PM
I have been slowly getting through the book and so far I like what I see.

I am real keen on giving this a crack.

Maybe we should start a new GE thread and bribe Virge to assist with questions / tips.

Good idea. Virge seems happy to spread the GE lurve :)

henno
19th June 2009, 09:46 PM
The only thing I dislike about it is the cult-like behaviour of his followers. It is like a a fundamentalist religion, with the blind faith to go with it.

ddasey
19th June 2009, 09:48 PM
Sorry but I couldn't resist.

You are a bad influence....;)

http://www.mycommentshot.com/import/graphics/Showing_love/dropping-in-to-spread-some-love.gif

ddasey
19th June 2009, 09:49 PM
The only thing I dislike about it is the cult-like behaviour of his followers. It is like a a fundamentalist religion, with the blind faith to go with it.

Maybe we can start our own Ozgolf cult...

Yossarian
19th June 2009, 09:57 PM
And all wear snuggies!

razaar
19th June 2009, 10:04 PM
Can you explain Raz?
Sure...the bottom line in golf is about scoring. There are many players who have very good swings but can't score and there are players who have very ordinary swings who can score. The record books a full of the latter.

The safest and surest way to improve is to go with the swing we have and learn to hit our best shots 90% of the time instead of 30% or whatever. That applies to all elements of the game. I like Jim Flick's words - "Lets play golf, not work it". Making swing changes is work and there is no guarantee that we will score any better when the changes do become habit, because we still have to hit our best shot more often to improve our scores. Can you see where I am coming from?

Daves
19th June 2009, 10:19 PM
Apologies if this thread should be in Golf Matters rather than here.
There are several recent mentions of a drill (one-foot back, ball-striking, compression) described by Shawn Clement. They got me browsing through his instructional vids on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=493A6D197446DD67).

Clement has posted 84 vids there covering a pretty full range of golf issues from short chips to full swing. I like some of what I see, not so sure about others and not expert enough to distinguish lead from gold.

What do you see the collection that you'd recommend? wouldn't? And why?

For me Shawn is one of the best golf instructor communicators out there. Lots to learn for the hacker in his vids, and they are free to watch so the price is pretty good! He is a S & T man but does not push it to the exclusion of the basics. Plus the bugger can play off scratch left and right handed! so he is the man! You won't suffer too much damage listening to Shawns instruction IMO.

Beetle34
19th June 2009, 11:51 PM
No way look for my buddy Rickard Strongert, he is the shizzle my nizzle, the videojug way.

adlo
19th June 2009, 11:56 PM
Sure...the bottom line in golf is about scoring. There are many players who have very good swings but can't score and there are players who have very ordinary swings who can score. The record books a full of the latter.

The safest and surest way to improve is to go with the swing we have and learn to hit our best shots 90% of the time instead of 30% or whatever. That applies to all elements of the game. I like Jim Flick's words - "Lets play golf, not work it". Making swing changes is work and there is no guarantee that we will score any better when the changes do become habit, because we still have to hit our best shot more often to improve our scores. Can you see where I am coming from?
Yes I can.

Can you make me shoot par?

Johnny Canuck
20th June 2009, 12:01 AM
Yes I can.

Can you make me shoot par?

I can answer that one for you...:mrgreen:

adlo
20th June 2009, 12:17 AM
And.....

adlo
20th June 2009, 12:19 AM
And don't say swing harder

Johnny Canuck
20th June 2009, 12:33 AM
It's a start.

edhannan
20th June 2009, 01:35 AM
Looking through the Edwin book/vids we got through the GE syndicate......

This may be a stupid question but I would appreciate thoughts here. What is the best way to try and make swing changes? I will try and explain..... it is hard to know if you are performing drills and swing changes as they are intended. If you do not have access to a coach, what is the next best thing?

I share your pain. Outside of the GE website and Virge, I don't know of any sources to tap into. No local help here in Canada. So pursuing the Edwin approach is a challenge.
Perceptive coaching is a key element. Case in point is the one-foot-back drill. I've "used" it for years with some benefit. But from Clement's thorough video treatment, I see that I haven't been doing it very well. I guess if you really know your stuff you can coach yourself, but even the pros (maybe especially the pros) rely on others to help them sort out:
- like this, not like that
- what applies and what does not

edhannan
20th June 2009, 01:50 AM
Sure...the bottom line in golf is about scoring. There are many players who have very good swings but can't score and there are players who have very ordinary swings who can score. The record books a full of the latter.

The safest and surest way to improve is to go with the swing we have and learn to hit our best shots 90% of the time instead of 30% or whatever. That applies to all elements of the game. I like Jim Flick's words - "Lets play golf, not work it". Making swing changes is work and there is no guarantee that we will score any better when the changes do become habit, because we still have to hit our best shot more often to improve our scores. Can you see where I am coming from?

I'm relating this to 30 + years of coaching basketball...another game of getting the ball in the hole. Helping kids to improve their shooting was not a matter of moulding them all into the same textbook form. Rather it was a case of looking at each one individually and deciding which eccentricities didn't matter and which ones were limiting their effectiveness or would limit their development. The ideal was not to turn them all into pretty shooters but consistent ones.

edhannan
20th June 2009, 01:58 AM
For me Shawn is one of the best golf instructor communicators out there. Lots to learn for the hacker in his vids, and they are free to watch so the price is pretty good! He is a S & T man but does not push it to the exclusion of the basics. Plus the bugger can play off scratch left and right handed! so he is the man! You won't suffer too much damage listening to Shawns instruction IMO.


I see in the responses of youtube viewers a number of comments about stack and tilt. Some visual similarities, I guess. Some viewers see S&T elements in the GE swing too.

But Clement says he is NOT a stack and tilt advocate.

razaar
20th June 2009, 06:33 AM
I'm relating this to 30 + years of coaching basketball...another game of getting the ball in the hole. Helping kids to improve their shooting was not a matter of moulding them all into the same textbook form. Rather it was a case of looking at each one individually and deciding which eccentricities didn't matter and which ones were limiting their effectiveness or would limit their development. The ideal was not to turn them all into pretty shooters but consistent ones.
Come on now, how could you not teach your b/ball students Bill Sharman's technique.:)

razaar
20th June 2009, 09:17 AM
Yes I can.

Can you make me shoot par?

After seeing your swing there is no reason why you can't. You have a better swing than mine, hit the ball further than I can...remember Bill Murray teaching Andie MacDowell to flip cards into the hat in "Groundhog Day"...you've got to want it!!:)

adlo
20th June 2009, 03:45 PM
Thanks Raz. Passion for the game is low at the moment, hoping to come back refreshed from holidays and see if I can't shoot some decent scores.

zigwah
20th June 2009, 03:51 PM
Maybe we can start our own Ozgolf cult...


Ive found the perfect leader, i heard he is looking for a new gig

Yossarian
20th June 2009, 07:08 PM
Thanks Raz. Passion for the game is low at the moment, hoping to come back refreshed from holidays and see if I can't shoot some decent scores.

Maybe you need
http://i41.tinypic.com/ao00i8.jpg

To get the passion.

adlo
20th June 2009, 10:00 PM
Mate, I have zero interest in AFL and still hate the Dockers.

Ferrins
12th August 2009, 08:58 PM
watched some sappy pommie bloke in plus fours and he fixed up my bunker play in just over a minute. Brilliant!!!!

virge666
13th August 2009, 11:23 AM
The only thing I dislike about it is the cult-like behaviour of his followers. It is like a a fundamentalist religion, with the blind faith to go with it.

+1 and Amen.

It is like Apple Mac people, they shit me to tears.

zigwah
13th August 2009, 11:36 PM
you guys crack me up!!! Henno your a perfect candidate for neways or the other one AMWAY :)

virge666
14th August 2009, 10:03 AM
I see in the responses of youtube viewers a number of comments about stack and tilt. Some visual similarities, I guess. Some viewers see S&T elements in the GE swing too.


There is SFA stack and tilt in either pattern - Shawn is very Leadbetterish with the top resisting the bottom and loading up the right foot. Almost like Jim Hardy's single plane theories.

Edwin is more body release with the arms speed being the juice of the swing. The hands stay way more neutral.

It seems the world is full of dickheads who believe there are only two kinds of swings... one that move the head over the right foot and the ones that dont. The first is Nicklaus and the second is Stack and Tilt.

For the record - I like Shawn's stuff, it is a very good pattern and he loves his work.

edhannan
14th August 2009, 12:44 PM
"For the record - I like Shawn's stuff, it is a very good pattern and he loves his work."

Right on re his attitude toward teaching golf. He seems genuinely excited about the game and helping players get better.
Have sent him a couple of emails with questions and comments and received same day responses.