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Jono
5th June 2009, 08:02 AM
I might not agree with Virge's swing theories, but I have to say that Virge is the most generous person when it comes to giving his time to help others with their golf swings.

I've had 3 range sessions with him now and as much as he has tried to help me, I think it's a case of "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". :oops:
In the end, I've taken away 1 or 2 tips that seems to be helping the most. We'll see on Monday at Gold Creek.

Each time we were at the range, Virge spent about 30% of that time hitting balls. Other 70% was spent helping others on the range. At Narrabeen range, he is known as THE GURU. :lol:

Anyway, thanks Virge. :smt023

zigwah
5th June 2009, 08:07 AM
never had a range session with virge, but his time helping me with my swing has been outstanding, even he gives me the shits sometimes and i'm sure i give him the shit a lot.

what jono said thanx virge

Love to have a range session one day, never know what's around the corner

BrisVegas
5th June 2009, 08:09 AM
is that what you two were up to last night when you phoned? Sounded like you were getting pretty hot and heavy with each other, that's for sure.... Not sure of the need to call me in the afterglow though!

virge666
5th June 2009, 11:44 AM
Hey Jono,

It is pretty easy when you work with two kinds of people... people that have no idea and people that have good control of their hands. Your in the last group.

The problem I have always had with students is breaking habits, no matter how much you explain and how much the student understands why you just can't have one particular move or idiocracy.

Your move into impact is a/the major problem, you saw the change in ball flight and especially balance once you got your shoulders under control. Below is an excerpt from some doc I have collected over the years on the transition. I hope it helps.

Transition
The transition in any golf swing is perhaps the most important move and the most difficult for most to understand. It is what gives a golf swing its athleticism, grace and power. In both swings, the body must begin moving back to the target before the club reaches the top of swing. In any good golf swing, the arms do nothing active from the top of the swing until they get back down to atleast hip high, this allows them to store potential energy to be used exclusively through the hitting area. The longer they stay passive, the better, as this allows the body to control the club rather than the arms.

The transition is the single most important move for storing power in the golf swing. It is the transition that allows the golfer to maintain lag in the wrists that allow the club to whip through impact with little apparent effort from the body. Ben Hogan was, of course, the absolute master of this.

Hogan began moving his body back to the target very aggressively well before he reached the top of the swing and he, himself, stressed the emphasis of getting the hips moving while the arms stay passive. Hogan said that his "arms were getting a free ride." For many, getting the lower body to move in one direction while the club continues to move back is a difficult task. One way I teach this move is this that as long as the club is moving back away from the target on the backswing, the body can be rotating back away from the target. However, after the club is perpendicular to the ground, it begins moving "back" toward the target as it approaches the top of the swing.

It is during this time that the body must be "preparing" to move back toward the target. It does not happen this early, but if you think of it happening in this way it will give the body time to respond to the minds instructions while you are learning the idea. It is at this point, when the body begins rotating back to the left that you can't rotate your torso too fast.

The jeopardy in the two plane swing of rotating the body too fast is the don't have time to get the arms back down on plane and they get stuck behind you. In the one plane swing, that is the exact desired effect. You want the left arm to feel as if it were being drug or forced through the downswing by the body. It is as if the left arm were velcroed to the chest, very relaxed but whipping through impact. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of the transition. It is the transition that stretches the muscles to their fullest extent and this stretching is what allows them to "snap" back like a rubber band to generate tremendous speed with very little effort.

Jarro
5th June 2009, 11:47 AM
Oh boy .... i'm looking forward to seeing this new Jono swing at the Nudgee Plate 8)

3oneday
5th June 2009, 11:50 AM
Hey Jono,

It is pretty easy when you work with two kinds of people... people that have no idea and people that have good control of their hands. Your in the last group.

Correct your typo Virge, I liked where you started to go... then you went soft !!!!



:lol:

3oneday
5th June 2009, 11:51 AM
Oh boy .... i'm looking forward to seeing this new Jono swing at the Nudgee Plate 8)
I hope it's easier to watch than that last paragraph :shock:

virge666
5th June 2009, 12:03 PM
Correct your typo Virge, I liked where you started to go... then you went soft !!!!
:lol:

Sorry Pete,

Jono hits the ball a mile by spinning his hips and flipping his hands over. His hands and lower body are STUPIDLY quick. But in doing this - all the control goes from the swing. To stop it going left all day - John keeps the club face open through impact. What you hear on TV as "holding it off".

To hold the clubface open John opens his shoulders on the downswing. This is usually OK if it is a "little" open. But he opens them a tonne. So step one is to clear the hips while keeping his shoulders closed more on the downswing.

John got the hang of this with irons quickly and his ball flight immediatley improved. But he was a bit of a pussy with the driver, and went back to what he thought was comfortable, and then hooked and blocked the tits off everything.

:)

(is that better 3od)

3oneday
5th June 2009, 12:21 PM
Thanks, good recovery ;)

schanop
5th June 2009, 01:23 PM
Top stuff maestro virge :-)

virge666
5th June 2009, 01:52 PM
Thanks, good recovery ;)


It just isn't me with out some hard love. :)

I am just putting together someone's i10 with KBS tour 90 shafts for the Doc.

He may not get them is they are as good as i think they will be.

life is good.

3oneday
5th June 2009, 02:31 PM
I am just putting together someone's i10
never look back ;)

just
5th June 2009, 02:34 PM
It just isn't me with out some hard love. :)

I am just putting together someone's i10 with KBS tour 90 shafts for the Doc.

He may not get them is they are as good as i think they will be.

life is good.

What are your thoughts on the Tour 90's, virge? Comparable to anything?

virge666
5th June 2009, 02:36 PM
What are your thoughts on the Tour 90's, virge? Comparable to anything?


Ask me on Tuesday. Glue will set overnight tonight.

markTHEblake
5th June 2009, 04:45 PM
Oh boy .... i'm looking forward to seeing this new Jono swing at the Nudgee Plate 8)

He is a new Jono alright, the new name is TwoJono

virge666
5th June 2009, 05:22 PM
One more for Jono.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JES-8I-VAk&feature=channel

Jono
5th June 2009, 06:05 PM
Oh boy .... i'm looking forward to seeing this new Jono swing at the Nudgee Plate 8)

Jarro, no new swing. Not enough time before Nudgee Plate. Just trying to make my swing more workable.

For those who haven't seen my swing, I take the club inside with a closed face then towards the top, my left hand cups which gives me a bit more wrist hinge. This puts the club about 30 degrees across the line at the top. (ie. pointing 30 degrees right of the target) My right hip moves away from the target and I tend to lean towards the target at the top. From this steep position, when I'm swinging well, I flatten the shaft whilst re-routing the hands/clubhead in a sort of over the top move to get the club back on plane towards the target.

I tend to hang back at impact and as a result, hit my irons very poorly. No compression. With the driver, I tee it up high so that even if I hang back, I can hit up on it and still get a clean contact.

Those who met Virge already know, but he sort of likes the sound of his own voice. ;) He spews out golf terminologies at million miles an hour. Out of 10 million things he told me to do, I have simplified it down to two points.

1) lean the upper body AWAY from the target at the top, not towards it.

2) Keep the upper body closed longer on the way down

I'll work on these first before a complete overhaul of my swing.

virge666
5th June 2009, 09:25 PM
Those who met Virge already know, but he sort of likes the sound of his own voice. ;) He spews out golf terminologies at million miles an hour. Out of 10 million things he told me to do, I have simplified it down to two points.

1) lean the upper body AWAY from the target at the top, not towards it.

2) Keep the upper body closed longer on the way down

I'll work on these first before a complete overhaul of my swing.


Yeah I would agree with all that !

Also that the hips lead the shoulders on the downswing. In fact as long as you keep your shoulders closed more - you cannot clear your heaps too much.

Clubs should be ready tomorrow evening...

senecio
5th June 2009, 09:26 PM
For those who haven't seen my swing, I take the club inside with a closed face then towards the top, my left hand cups which gives me a bit more wrist hinge. This puts the club about 30 degrees across the line at the top. (ie. pointing 30 degrees right of the target).

In one paragraph, you've just described my swing, freakish!!

Virge, when are you next in Brisbane so I can partake in one of these range sessions?

markTHEblake
6th June 2009, 12:17 AM
I have simplified it down to two points..

Seems too complicated to me, I couldnt handle that much techy info, i need to get it down to
one point.

No wait, one vibe.

PeteyD
7th June 2009, 07:04 AM
It's the vibe, the feel ....

Way too technical for me, but Jono thrives on that stuff.

Jono
7th June 2009, 09:15 AM
Seems too complicated to me, I couldnt handle that much techy info, i need to get it down to
one point.

No wait, one vibe.

Not that easy to explain a vibe in words though ...

Virge does plenty of saying "move this way, not that way" ... And plenty of "that's a bloody aweful swing". Is that enough vibe for you? :roll: :lol:

Jono
9th June 2009, 07:40 PM
As per Virge's instructions, I'm going to try to change my impact position.

Here is a photo of my impact position that SMS took at Gold Creek.


http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6169/impact.jpg
You can see that my shoulders have opened up too much, too early. This usually causes a big block out right or a sweeping hook if I manage to flip the clubhead closed. This drive went about 20 meters right of target.

My goal is to keep the shoulders closed longer on the downswing and try to have them only slightly open at impact.

kev
9th June 2009, 08:47 PM
Jeez Jono, you couldn't get a bigger picture could you??? :shock:

virge666
9th June 2009, 09:01 PM
Agreed mate - little smaller please or don't embed it.

Jono
9th June 2009, 10:06 PM
Sorry, I just copied and pasted SMS's file. :p

Better now?

markTHEblake
9th June 2009, 10:13 PM
Better now?

tell him to hold the camera with two hands next time.

PeteyD
10th June 2009, 04:15 AM
Funny oblong ball you play with Jono. Try getting a round one!