Up and downs

[Mayhem]

I am not getting any positive results in the 'up and down' column in my golf stats. My GIR reg isn't too bad and my putting is getting better but need to work on my Up and downs. I played with a bloke last week who plays off 6. We had similar fairways and GIR. He shot a 71 and me an 88. He had 20 putts and I had 35.

He just chipped on really close every time. Neither of us bombed a big putt. I left many chips outside my comfortable 1-putt distance.

I am not sure whether I should be using wedges like I usually do. (S or LW) I have been told I would do better with a 7 or 8 iron. I just don't feel that comfortable with them as I tend to hit too far past the hole.

I practice chipping in my yard weekly to get better feel and have modified a SW into a chip-stick and that has helped a little.

Anyone have some advice on getting more up and downs? Can you identify anything I am doing wrong?

[PeteyD]

Advice tends to be - use whatever gets it rolling on the green first, and learnt to chip under a seat or bench. David Williams over on another forum had a list of shots that was good. Might pay to search it out.

Did you watch what the 6 marker did to chip it close?

[Mayhem]

I am pretty sure he used a 9.

Kept it low and let it roll out. I tend to use loft and this has not worked for me.

All the blokes who are good at their up and downs at wembley tend to use low lofted irons and roll it in. I just don't trust it.

Is the key reading the line? getting the weight right?

[PeteyD]

Practice.

[Mayhem]

Practice.

With what?? Stick with the wedgesor change to a lower loft iron?

[Lucasto23]

With what?? Stick with the wedgesor change to a lower loft iron?

If you don't wanna use the 9 use your PW, it's still a wedge.

If you have nothing to fly over treat it like a putt, find the line, land the ball on your line and let it roll out & praticing this is the only way to improve your short game and improve your up and downs.

Just focus on short back swing long follow through until you get your feel and the rest will come. otherwise just get a lesson

[Mayhem]

If you don't wanna use the 9 use your PW, it's still a wedge.

If you have nothing to fly over treat it like a putt, find the line, land the ball on your line and let it roll out & praticing this is the only way to improve your short game and improve your up and downs.

Just focus on short back swing long follow through until you get your feel and the rest will come. otherwise just get a lesson

Would love to get lessons. Heading on a round the world trip at the end of year so watching the cash.
In feb i will get clubs fitted properly and have a couple of lessons. The advice I am getting from the forum is making improvements for now.

Thanks for the advice!!

With the backswing I have read up about the backswing and am at a loose end.

Do I draw straight back or swing the club across the body? straight line through the ball or swing on an arc?? I have read conflicting reports.

[gazgolf1]

I'm a big fan of Stan Utley's philosophy, he believes that any swing in golf including chipping, pitching and putting is a smaller version of the full swing. So for me that meant putting more weight onto my left side, moving my ball position more forward and rotating my body when chipping and pitching. Getting the clubshaft more vertical at impact lets you use the bounce as it was intended on your wedges.
So now intead of opening my stance, putting the ball way back and chopping down on it I feel like I just turn through and collect the ball. Like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzS_HwzChaA

[razaar]

Would love to get lessons. Heading on a round the world trip at the end of year so watching the cash.
In feb i will get clubs fitted properly and have a couple of lessons. The advice I am getting from the forum is making improvements for now.

Thanks for the advice!!

With the backswing I have read up about the backswing and am at a loose end.

Do I draw straight back or swing the club across the body? straight line through the ball or swing on an arc?? I have read conflicting reports.
Can you describe your chipping technique?

[Mayhem]

My stance is slightly open (in the aim of allowing my upper body to rotate) and my feet are slightly wider than shoulder width.

I choke down a little in the grip and open the face of the club a little.

I have stopped trying to use my wrists and elbows when chipping. I have been using a chip-stick to try and get the upper body rotation controlling the chip. this has helped me judge the weight better IMO.

Oh and my follow through..........the clubhead finishes infront of my left knee at that height.

Mentally I am not sure if I should 'power up' through the downswing and try to hit it or just let the momentum of the upper body rotation striker the ball.

I have been tinkering around and trying two different backswings. One that goes straight back and forward as if I am putting. The other method is more of an arc where I draw the club back past the line of my body.

Hope that is comprehendable.

[Chris32]

After reading a bit of Dave Pelz's books I've been chipping with my feet quite close together, and using lower lofted clubs. Works a treat, you just have to get used to it

[Mayhem]

I'm a big fan of Stan Utley's philosophy, he believes that any swing in golf including chipping, pitching and putting is a smaller version of the full swing. So for me that meant putting more weight onto my left side, moving my ball position more forward and rotating my body when chipping and pitching. Getting the clubshaft more vertical at impact lets you use the bounce as it was intended on your wedges.
So now intead of opening my stance, putting the ball way back and chopping down on it I feel like I just turn through and collect the ball. Like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzS_HwzChaA

Good video and this seams to be the kind of swing I am more comfortable with. I am finding there are two different schools of thought out there. Some encourage the fact that chipping should be a miniature version of your full swing. Others like Prof Pelz says it should be a different swing or style.

I will keep browzing through the Pelz and Utley gear and see what I can find.

Thanks for the link

[Mayhem]

After reading a bit of Dave Pelz's books I've been chipping with my feet quite close together, and using lower lofted clubs. Works a treat, you just have to get used to it

I have recently read an article in Golf Magazine about some lads who went to the Pelz school of golf. This shorter stance is common and most people ore suggesting lower lofts.

Thanks for the plug. Where is a good place to find Pelz gear??

[Bungeye]

best chipping tip I ever got from Paul King.

1. Pick a club with enough loft to carry to the green, get it running as soon as possible
2. Feet close together
3. Soft hands (yeah yeah)
4. Don't flick your wrists or elbows trying to 'lift' the ball.
5. Keep the clubs head low and accelerate through the swing

Looks a lot like the youtube vid gaz posted. When I remember to do it all it works a treat.

[razaar]

My stance is slightly open (in the aim of allowing my upper body to rotate) and my feet are slightly wider than shoulder width.

I choke down a little in the grip and open the face of the club a little.

I have stopped trying to use my wrists and elbows when chipping. I have been using a chip-stick to try and get the upper body rotation controlling the chip. this has helped me judge the weight better IMO.

Oh and my follow through..........the clubhead finishes infront of my left knee at that height.

Mentally I am not sure if I should 'power up' through the downswing and try to hit it or just let the momentum of the upper body rotation striker the ball.

I have been tinkering around and trying two different backswings. One that goes straight back and forward as if I am putting. The other method is more of an arc where I draw the club back past the line of my body.

Hope that is comprehendable.

Mate, I hope you are picking a spot to land the ball on. Not once did you mention a target. There are so many techniques, most of them are pretty sound but you need to select the right target for the club you have selected and have a feel for how far it will release or stop for the swing intended. Hitting down on the ball is important to achieve a pure hit as is holding the club in the left palm to keep the wrists quiet and have the hands in front of the ball at contact. Your thoughts should be on making a good strike and landing the ball on the target.

[simmsy]

best chipping tip I ever got from Paul King.

1. Pick a club with enough loft to carry to the green, get it running as soon as possible
2. Feet close together
3. Soft hands (yeah yeah)
4. Don't flick your wrists or elbows trying to 'lift' the ball.
5. Keep the clubs head low and accelerate through the swing

Looks a lot like the youtube vid gaz posted. When I remember to do it all it works a treat.



Yeah i reckon this works pretty well for me. I use a similar swing to my putting swing but my feet are very close together for chipping and slightly open. Definately don't flip your wrists, allow and trust the loft of the club to carry you to the spot you have picked out on the green to land it.
Practice with a similar ball to what you play with during your game too.
No point practicing chip'n'run with a pinnacle rock and then playing with a Pro V.

[Mayhem]

Mate, I hope you are picking a spot to land the ball on. Not once did you mention a target. There are so many techniques, most of them are pretty sound but you need to select the right target for the club you have selected and have a feel for how far it will release or stop for the swing intended. Hitting down on the ball is important to achieve a pure hit as is holding the club in the left palm to keep the wrists quiet and have the hands in front of the ball at contact. Your thoughts should be on making a good strike and landing the ball on the target.

I should have mentioned a target......I usually have one.

I work on the rule that you SW ot Lob wedge should get you 3/4 of the way to the pin and release, 9 iron I aim half way to the pin. This goes out the window is I have little green to work with. In those cases I am going to start using a 9 and reading the line. Let it roll.

[Mayhem]

best chipping tip I ever got from Paul King.

1. Pick a club with enough loft to carry to the green, get it running as soon as possible
2. Feet close together
3. Soft hands (yeah yeah)
4. Don't flick your wrists or elbows trying to 'lift' the ball.
5. Keep the clubs head low and accelerate through the swing

Looks a lot like the youtube vid gaz posted. When I remember to do it all it works a treat.

Sound like sound advise. I have never understood the idea of having soft hands. I have tried it out before (what I thought it meant: lazy hands.) and I felt as though I didn't have enough control and I hit fat shots.

Can someone elaborate on the concept?

[PeteyD]

I can't do that. I need to target the hole and trust myself to land it to get there. Each to their own.

Practice with all your clubs to find what is most comfortable. There is nothing wrong with chipping with a wood or hybrid.

[sms316]

Send Pyongyang a PM for advice. He is the best chipper of all time. There is a video of his actio somewhere.

[Mayhem]

I can't do that. I need to target the hole and trust myself to land it to get there. Each to their own.

Practice with all your clubs to find what is most comfortable. There is nothing wrong with chipping with a wood or hybrid.

So you fly it close and get it to stop?

I have used different clubs at my local practice range. Hard as concrete but it did illustrate that I am more consistent with the SW than LW. I will head out to a decent practice green and continue research.

[razaar]

Sound like sound advise. I have never understood the idea of having soft hands. I have tried it out before (what I thought it meant: lazy hands.) and I felt as though I didn't have enough control and I hit fat shots.

Can someone elaborate on the concept?

Dead hands is a better way of saying it. If the club c0cks the wrists (ever so slightly) during takeaway then there is no unc0cking or release in the throughswing; the hands stay in the c0cked position leaving the clubhead to meet the ball without any help from the hands.

[PeteyD]

So you fly it close and get it to stop?

I have used different clubs at my local practice range. Hard as concrete but it did illustrate that I am more consistent with the SW than LW. I will head out to a decent practice green and continue research.


No, I chip it onto the green and let it roll out, but the hole is always my target, not where i want the chip to land.

[adlo]

If I can say a few things here.... I play with Mayhem a fair bit.....

Mayhem, you would benefit greatly from Willows article, I will send you a link, you may have to sign up as a user on a new forum to access it.

Mayhem, the article will switch a few light bulbs on in your mind re: chipping and the full swing. You do not compress the ball when you are chipping and this leads to inconsistent distance control. That is your main fault.

In terms of club selection, most guys at Wembley have a short game that suits a flat course with flat greens. They cannot use the same technique at a course with difficult green complexes. They have no understanding how to use the bounce on their wedges, or hit a flop shot, or to manufacture some extra spin. The ONLY know the bump and run. Some of them use it very well. It is a great shot to have in the arsenal, but it is only one greenside shot that is available to you.

That being said, I agree with what most people have said here and that is to get the ball rolling ASAP, which on a flat course means you will normally play bump and run shots.

And more improtantly, I have a great bottle of red for Saturday night, should go a treat with my onion soup :razz: I can discuss the finer points of the short game with you then.

[Mayhem]

If I can say a few things here.... I play with Mayhem a fair bit.....

Mayhem, you would benefit greatly from Willows article, I will send you a link, you may have to sign up as a user on a new forum to access it.

Mayhem, the article will switch a few light bulbs on in your mind re: chipping and the full swing. You do not compress the ball when you are chipping and this leads to inconsistent distance control. That is your main fault.

In terms of club selection, most guys at Wembley have a short game that suits a flat course with flat greens. They cannot use the same technique at a course with difficult green complexes. They have no understanding how to use the bounce on their wedges, or hit a flop shot, or to manufacture some extra spin. The ONLY know the bump and run. Some of them use it very well. It is a great shot to have in the arsenal, but it is only one greenside shot that is available to you.

That being said, I agree with what most people have said here and that is to get the ball rolling ASAP, which on a flat course means you will normally play bump and run shots.

And more improtantly, I have a great bottle of red for Saturday night, should go a treat with my onion soup :razz: I can discuss the finer points of the short game with you then.

Cheers mate looking forward to it. I am going out to chase a fine bottle of port. I have a couple of labels in mind.

Any great drops in the port department lads?

[razaar]

Don't you lads in the west drink invalid port.:mrgreen:

:lol:

[Mayhem]

Dead hands is a better way of saying it. If the club c0cks the wrists (ever so slightly) during takeaway then there is no unc0cking or release in the throughswing; the hands stay in the c0cked position leaving the clubhead to meet the ball without any help from the hands.


So I understand it is more of an issue with the wrists rather than the hands??

With that said..........I should be keeping the triangle shape with my shoulders and arms?

[Mayhem]

Don't you lads in the west drink invalid port.:mrgreen:

:lol:

Invalid Port?

I understand our southwest is not the best climate for port. Anyone over there in the east have better suggestions?

[razaar]

So I understand it is more of an issue with the wrists rather than the hands??

With that said..........I should be keeping the triangle shape with my shoulders and arms?
Adam will know what I am referring to; enjoy your wine.:)

[Mayhem]

Adam will know what I am referring to; enjoy your wine.:)

Cheers Raz

[adlo]

This link is gold. (http://www.thegolfforum.com/index.php?showtopic=2994)

You will need to be a registered user.

Mayhem, look at Willows follow through compared to "picking up" the ball when you chip.

[sms316]

This link is gold. (http://www.thegolfforum.com/index.php?showtopic=2994)

You will need to be a registered user.

Mayhem, look at Willows follow through compared to "picking up" the ball when you chip.
Ah yes. Pyongyang in all of his glory.

For serious advice - one of the golf mahs this month has an additional mag with short game tips. Mickelson's "hinge & hold" technique is very simple and very effective.

[PeteyD]

Listen to SMS, at least you know he can get up and down. Or ask 69er.

[markTHEblake]

Listen to SMS, at least you know he can get up and down. Or ask 69er.

yeah but 69er doesnt know how he does it. he's like the shooter that closes his eyes and then aims, and still hits the target. He is the closest thing to Ty Webb that we have got, except he looks much more like Al Czervik

[sms316]

http://www.pgatour.com/2009/tourlife/instruction/03/17/blog_317/index.html

[Coogee Beach]

Mate there's a whole bunch of good tips on YouTube ... enter "golf" and "chip" and see how you go.

A good one was only swinging back as far as you swing forward ... and neither time the head goes above your hands ...

I use a 54 degree wedge ... for just about everything ... but I'd like to get better with 8-iron to get the thing rolling ... spinning a bit, perhaps ...

good luck.

[Johnny Canuck]

Mate there's a whole bunch of good tips on YouTube ... enter "golf" and "chip" and see how you go.

A good one was only swinging back as far as you swing forward ... and neither time the head goes above your hands ...

I use a 54 degree wedge ... for just about everything ... but I'd like to get better with 8-iron to get the thing rolling ... spinning a bit, perhaps ...

good luck.]

Yeah, try that Mayhem.:smt038

[Mayhem]

http://www.pgatour.com/2009/tourlife/instruction/03/17/blog_317/index.html


Cheers mate, looks good. Will give a going over and give it a crack.

[Mayhem]

]

Yeah, try that Mayhem.:smt038

Thanks lads.

One question: what loft is considered standard on a SW?

[PeteyD]

Sand wedges are all 54-56 *. Some how they have missed out o nthe shriking loft disease that has seen the Gap wedge created. Think it has to do with hitting it out of sand and needing that angle to do it.