Is it a disadvantage on the PGA Tour to be a quick player?

[Andrew]

Cabrera made a complaint to an official today about the pace of play. There have been complaints made by quick players in the past.

Having been to a few PGA Tour events in America, I remember the first tournament I attended being surprised at how much time many of the players took over each shot. Of course, they are playing for their livelihood, so I understand their caution, but the speed of play seems to be dictated by the slower players.

My question is not should something be done to speed the slower guys up, but…

Should quick players who are on the brink of one of the top tours learn to slow down so they are not at a disadvantage?

[virge666]

Geez - that is a good question.

I would suggest we speed up the play instead... with a shot clock.

[Minor_Threat]

I am a quick player and when I was playing on the Australasian Tour I struggled with the pace of play.

I agree with a shot clock no doubt.

[razaar]

Don't think it is an issue. When Tom Watson and Jack Nicklaus went head to head, Watson who was very quick usually came out on top. Jack was a slow deliberate player but that is his nature. Guys who play quick learn to play mind games - I read that Fred Couples talks sports and mentally paints the outlines of trees when the talk runs out. Mickleson & Bones make a chess game of every shot, now that would be a fun group to be in - NOT. Ben Crane is one of the slowest but he is such a nice guy he gets away with it. TV coverage and crowd control can influence the speed of play as will course difficulty. If a quick player was to get out of his natural rythmn of doing things it may be to his detriment to change.

[Andrew]

I would suggest we speed up the play instead... with a shot clock.

It would be interesting to see how players handle a shot, although I don’t know how it would be administered.

Most of you guys probably don’t follow the Snooker, but The Premier League tournament in the UK has used a shot clock for the last 5 years. Ronnie (The Rocket) O’Sullivan, who has always been known as a fast player, has won all 5 years under the shot clock system.

[Webster]

Ben Crane is one of the slowest but he is such a nice guy he gets away with it.

Not sure Sabbatini would agree with you there...Crane is a cockhead who needs to hurry the **** up!

They should impose 2 shot penalties in the slow players to ensure that rounds dont take more than 4 hours.

Who was the last player on the PGA Tour to get a 2 shot penalty for slow play?

[Grunt]

I watched it this morning when Kevin Na was taking ages to play shots. Also after the complaint was made his game turned to shit too.

[goughy]

I have no issues with a shot clock. I mean, don't they already 'supposedly' have a system in play for players/groups who take too long? Is it just not enforced as such? Then there can be no complaints. You can take up every second of your allowable time, just no more.

[u8ergolfer]

Seen a few occasions when groups are put on the clock over a few years, and pretty much all that happened was the SLOW player miraculously finds he can play his shot 10 - 15 sec quicker, bewildering the others in the group who have been frustrated by the pace for a few holes..only prob then is all players are then on the clock, and the others start to get quick and out of their rhythm as a result. frustrating for all concerned.

[Bruce]

A fast player is certainly at a disadvantage as groups only ever move at the speed of the slowest member. A slow guy has no incentive to speed up and so won't.

Surely TV could put the pressure on the various tours to get the game speeded up. They want to have their coverage completed on time and so they could insist on the field moving at a reasonable pace.

[markTHEblake]

Slow players dont bother me. i have the slight advantage that with most of my golf i usually hit from the tee first and hit my approach shots last, and as i am a fast walker (maybe slower now) i tend to just go straight to my ball and am happy to wait as long as it takes. Gives me time to think about my shot and also get my breath back :-)

So I imagine if i was a tour player, i would feel the same. I could get to my ball and have a longer time to plan my shot while the other bloke is friggin around.

On the other hand i have played about 10-12 rounds in pro tournaments, where its just me and 2 pros in the group. Bloody hell, talk about hard to keep up. Usually Teeing off last and these bastards are half way down the fairway before i pick my tee up, and if course i am first away from the fairway. Not to mention that they dont stop for a crap, beer and refill the drink bottle after 9 either.

[Courty]

Watching the pros dawdling and mulling over club selection and wind direction surely must set a bad example for the millions of amateurs who watch them. They see it on TV and want to emulate their favourite players when they play.

[3oneday]

Watching the pros dawdling and mulling over club selection and wind direction surely must set a bad example for the millions of amateurs who watch them. They see it on TV and want to emulate their favourite players when they play.
Na

[senecio]

Surely TV could put the pressure on the various tours to get the game speeded up.

Where's Kerry Packer when you need him. One Day Golf!!

[Tongueboy]

dead. but it does shit you when you get stuck behind someone who is frigging around just like they do on tele! hate slow play

[sms316]

Cabrera made a complaint to an official today about the pace of play. There have been complaints made by quick players in the past.

And Cabrera was pretty much crucified in commentary for making the complaint. They didn't say it directly, but it sounded to me like they didn't agree with it.


Ben Crane is one of the slowest but he is such a nice guy he gets away with it.


Not sure Sabbatini would agree with you there...Crane is a cockhead who needs to hurry the **** up!

Agree with Jack. I don't think Sabbatini was out of order when he walked off on Crane.


I have no issues with a shot clock.
There is one. From memory on the Oz Tour, it is 45 seconds from when it is your turn. Not sure how much that is enforced though.

Slow play is pretty much the biggest issue in golf today. The amount of time it takes to play a round of golf on a Saturday prohibits a lot of people to committing to membership in a society which demands more of your time than ever before.

[kobbsno10]

I remember in the Abu Dhabi Championship back in january the day was coming to an end and it was starting to get dark and the players were trying to finish before it got dark! Talk about fast golf then....and it was even better golf from the players! I dont think the players need all that time over a shot to weigh it up, they just do it because they can! Bring in a shot clock I say!

[bergsey]

I was staggered when going out to the Johnnie Walker earlier in the year how bad it had become. 5 hour rounds almost seemed like the norm and scoring was pretty good. No one seemed in much of a hurry and some of the players took forever over each shot.

I agree should be a shot clock type format so that everyone is treated equally. You'd be pissed under the current model being a quick player and getting put on the clock if it is someone else's fault. Why they don't enforce penalties even at the club level for slow play is beyond me - plenty of warnings saying we are going to do it but it never happens!

[3oneday]

Probably cause half the culprits are on the committee !

[23Rounder]

They should definately speed up the slow players. Unfortunately I think it is somewhat of a disadvantage if you are a fast player on the PGA Tour and I think it should be the opposite

[razaar]

Probably cause half the culprits are on the committee !
Universal problem.:lol:

[markTHEblake]

There is one. From memory on the Oz Tour, it is 45 seconds from when it is your turn. Not sure how much that is enforced though.

the shot clock is only enforced when the players are advised by the officials they are on it, for example would be if they had fallen behind the group in front, as a result of slow play by one of both.

Otherwise they can take as long as they like over a single stroke (within reason) without fear of penalty

[u8ergolfer]

players cant be penalised until they have 1. been told they are out of position, 2. monitored by the clock then given a time warning.. 3 .still behind and finally measured at a time beyond the 45/50/55 second rule that applies once on the clock..

I have yet to personally see a player penalised for slow play, not saying it hasn't happened, but I haven't seen one enforced..

on a side topic anyone know of any recent slow play penalties on tour anywhere?

[lucky]

Slow play equals more TV coverage - equals more advertsing revenue - equals increased power when negotiating TV rights for the Tour - equals no change anytime soon. Getting cynical in my old age:)

[Scottt]

Lucky, I'd have thought they have a given telecast duration and fast play means more shots shown, means more viewers, means higher advertising rates, no?

[Daves]

Kevin Na was apparently the target of Angel's spit. Serial offender I believe.

[Boonie]

Andrew,

It can definitely be a disadvantage to be a quick player amongst slow players. If you were on the PGA Tour you would have to get used to it quickly though. If it let you effect your golf, you would be off the tour very quickly.

I used to play a lot slower than I do now, mainly because I used to play a lot of amateur events, and just went with the 'norm' so it didn't put me off.

I played the Aussie Amateur this year and the slow play just drove me insane, and I let it get to me a bit, which was dumb. Ended up having a bit of a blue with one of my playing partners, which did nothing for my golf!

We were miles behind in the 1st round and this guy was soooooo slow. There was a Qld rules official in a cart behind the 13th green, and I went up him for a chat (while the guy was 16om back up the fairway still) to try and explain why we were so far behind. His response was "Oh, your playing with ----ly, he is always slow". Needless to say the player in question was in the Qld state squad and just got a quiet friendly reminder, and was then left alone.

You definitely need to make a conscious decision to not let it get you, and come up with something to think about.