Attn low markers: The Secret?

[Scottt]

Virge/Jack/DC/Canuck/MinorThreat/3OD/Raz/assorted others,

What's The Secret to consistent mid 70s golf?

I have improved out of sight since leaving Australia. Playing all sorts of courses I've never seen before, I am posting 8-10 over as a matter of course. The links golf has added some shots to my bag and got the brain more involved.

+1 front/back nines, hitting lots of fairways and greens, and my newfound interest in GCA has meant I am making a lot more strategic decisions on the tee, which coupled with a more mature "no hero shots" approach is taking the triples and doubles out of play more.

Bit of swing work as well means a much more consistent strike, but the rally low rounds are escaping me still.

What is it that turns those high-70s/low-80s into really good ones?

For nine rounds this year

81.88 ave score (ave par is 71)
33.88 ave putts

45% GIR
61% Fairways Hit

9% birdies
37% pars
37% bogeys
12% double bogeys
3% others

1.88 putts per hole
2.00 putts per GIR
21% one-putt
68% two-putt
9% three-putt

[Johnny Canuck]

Chipping and putting. Get it to a level where you can get up and down from anywhere. It erases the ugliest shots!

[Moe Norman]

you're not hitting enough greens in relation to your fairway stat, and 2 putts per GIR is not a good stat (not that I am any better) you obviously need to putt better or hit it closer

[Webster]

I am posting 8-10 over as a matter of course.

Is this in competition golf, or just mucking around on your own stuff ala scarfie style? As you should know, there is a big difference.

There is no secret as such. Lowing your handicap to the level you seek is a combination of improved ball striking/short game and especially putting. But overall, you need to work on your course management to eliminate more bad shots from your game. That is the secret if there really is one - reduce the bad shots rather than trying to hit more good shots.

And above all put the ball in play off the tee. If you can do that consistently (forget about distance, its not that relevant at all) you have no chance. 61% FIR's leaves a lot of room for improvement.

[PeteyD]

And above all put the ball in play off the tee

Missing this is what causes the blowouts I reckon. Game is heaps easier from the fairway.

[gazgolf1]

Missing this is what causes the blowouts I reckon. Game is heaps easier from the fairway.

I agree, I'm off 6 purely because I hit the driver pretty straight. I'm a crap iron player and an average putter but I avoid the big numbers because I rarely hit my second shot from the trees.

[Moe Norman]

here I was thinking 61% FIR was high!

[Yossarian]

What is an average FIR for say a 6 marker?

[Iain]

here I was thinking 61% FIR was high!

Me too Moe!!

Scott, I would've thought that 33 avg putts isn't anywhere near low enough, especially for only 45% of GIR....

Like Johnny said, chipping and putting.

[Courty]

There's 2 schools of thought here:

1. Short game
2. Finding fairways

IMO, it's a combination of both, probably a 60/40 split in favour of the short game.

[PeteyD]

I think part 2 avoids the blowouts, and part 1 is for shaving strokes. If I have no blowouts I play under my choppers handicap. That is when the short game would come into it's own.

[razaar]

Its a gradual progression through the game. The progression speeds up once the player ceases making the ball the target. Some never get beyond this stage.

[bag_of_ants]

"making the ball the target"

This is intriguing, what do you mean by it razaar?

[Johnny Canuck]

I think fairways are overrated. Depending on the course, you can still score very well from the rough. Look at Phat Phil.

One good shot around the green per hole will pay way more dividends than a fairway hit.

[PeteyD]

It is not the 'fairways hit' stat that is important. It is having a playable second. No good hitting your drive into the trees if you can't get out.

[Minor_Threat]

A couple of things that has helped me during my time:

1. Develop a "stock" shot. This is a shot you can hit all day everyday, be it a fade / draw / straight whatever, but this is a shot you hit as often as possible. Its like a bit of a safety net.

2. Hit the shots you KNOW you can hit. NOT the shots you THINK you SHOULD be able to hit.

3. Develop your short game. I have always dedicated 85 - 90% of my practise to short game (100m in). If you can get this right, it doesnt really matter if you spray a few.

4. Never give up on a round. Some of my bests round are not the very low under par, but the ones where I know I was hitting it like a dog but was still able to scramble level or +1.

5. Be precise. Many amateurs make the green the target. Make the pin or a specific spot in the background the target. You will find that if you miss your target you will still catch the fairway or green.

[markTHEblake]

What's The Secret to consistent mid 70s golf?

The appropriate combination of Talent x brains x practice.

[razaar]

"making the ball the target"

This is intriguing, what do you mean by it razaar?
Focusing on where exactly the player wants his ball to finish. Advanced golfers are very aware of the target they have selected and this awareness is in their mind as they are swinging. Ordinary golfers are fixated on hitting the ball and advancing it in the general direction of the target, the total focus is on wacking the ball and hoping it lands in a good spot. Golf is a target and numbers game. Hit the target consistantly and the numbers reduce; conversely if the target is "down there somewhere etc" the numbers increase.

[Tongueboy]

straight off the tee,chipping,putting and a clear head with simple thoughts on the course. be smart and play at your own pace. plus what every one else has said.

[Scottt]

Chipping and putting. Get it to a level where you can get up and down from anywhere. It erases the ugliest shots!

True. This has been possibly the most difficult part of the transition over here, because the short game required on links courses, as you can appreciate, is quite different to the parkland game, and the greens have a lot more "stuff" going on than I am used to.


you're not hitting enough greens in relation to your fairway stat, and 2 putts per GIR is not a good stat (not that I am any better) you obviously need to putt better or hit it closer

Probably true, and GIR has risen from mid-high 30s last year, so it's getting better. 10-11 is my goal, and to be honest I probably miss out on more GIRs because of my driving. When I miss a fairway, I don't f**k around, and when the rough is as tall as Verne Troyer, GIR from there is out the window.


Is this in competition golf, or just mucking around on your own stuff ala scarfie style? As you should know, there is a big difference.

There is no secret as such. Lowing your handicap to the level you seek is a combination of improved ball striking/short game and especially putting. But overall, you need to work on your course management to eliminate more bad shots from your game. That is the secret if there really is one - reduce the bad shots rather than trying to hit more good shots.

And above all put the ball in play off the tee. If you can do that consistently (forget about distance, its not that relevant at all) you have no chance. 61% FIR's leaves a lot of room for improvement.

Good point about eliminating really bad shots. Between that and getting up and down and making the birdie chances, is probably where much of it lies.

It's a combination of comp golf and non-comp golf.


Me too Moe!!

Scott, I would've thought that 33 avg putts isn't anywhere near low enough, especially for only 45% of GIR....

Like Johnny said, chipping and putting.

My putting was around 31ppr when I as hitting less greens. While I am now having 2-3 more putts, I am saving 4-5 shots on approaches, so now the key is to keep the GIR stat high and get putts back down to 31-32.


A couple of things that has helped me during my time:

1. Develop a "stock" shot. This is a shot you can hit all day everyday, be it a fade / draw / straight whatever, but this is a shot you hit as often as possible. Its like a bit of a safety net.

2. Hit the shots you KNOW you can hit. NOT the shots you THINK you SHOULD be able to hit.

3. Develop your short game. I have always dedicated 85 - 90% of my practise to short game (100m in). If you can get this right, it doesnt really matter if you spray a few.



Hard thing is that my club is 2h away and there is no good short game practice area near where I live. To compromise I have started arriving 1h before my tee time to do some chipping/pitching, but it's still not enough.

[adlo]

1. Develop a "stock" shot. This is a shot you can hit all day everyday, be it a fade / draw / straight whatever, but this is a shot you hit as often as possible. Its like a bit of a safety net.

2. Hit the shots you KNOW you can hit. NOT the shots you THINK you SHOULD be able to hit.

3. Develop your short game. I have always dedicated 85 - 90% of my practise to short game (100m in). If you can get this right, it doesnt really matter if you spray a few.

4. Never give up on a round. Some of my bests round are not the very low under par, but the ones where I know I was hitting it like a dog but was still able to scramble level or +1.

5. Be precise. Many amateurs make the green the target. Make the pin or a specific spot in the background the target. You will find that if you miss your target you will still catch the fairway or green.
This is a great post, thanks Minor Threat.

Scottt, when I saw this thread I thought you were asking for this....
http://www.traceyhabron.com/images/the%20secret.jpg

Seriously though, I pay a lot of attention when I play with low markers to see what makes them able to shoot so low. As I am sure you realise, when your game is "in the zone" (and this would be the same for most players of your ability) you can hit the same shots as low markers, but it is that you cannot do it with consistency.

I find most low markers have a huge strength. That is, they are either flushers (hitting a lot of fairways and greens) or they have a crazy short game. If they have both, they will likely be off scratch. If you are not a natural flusher, I think more time needs to be invested into the short game.

I also often find low markers convert great tee shots into birdies a lot of the time. Whereas mid markers convert great tee shots into pars, and sometimes birdies.

Looking at your stats, I do not think you convert enough fairways hit into GIR and I think you are 3 putting too often per round.

[markTHEblake]

I find most low markers have a huge strength.


yeah - they hit better shots.

[Scottt]

You're outdoing yourself, Blake.

Adlo, I know what you mean. I have 2-marker mates who hit 16 greens and make nothing, and I have others who put it somewhere near the green, then do something special to get down in two.

I guess there are many paths from 9 to 4-5: I am going to find one of them though.

Not considering Miro's methods though...

[adlo]

Yes and no MTB. Some low markers have an average long game but are amazing putters. So they hit better shots in certain aspects of their game.

However, most mid markers are trying to be pro. Do everything right. However, I think by playing and practising to strengths we (mid markers like me, not you) we could lose quite a few strokes.

[Scottt]

If I stope hitting tee shots into the hay, I will save three shots a round at Deal just like that!

[oobsadd2]

Yes I have the secret, and i can share it with you.
Log on to my web site and view the preview of the amazing hints and tips that are guaranteed to export you to the golf game you have always wanted.
Read the testimonies of the thousands of satisfied customers who have already reached golfing nirvana.
Just 12 easy payments of $29.99 and golfing legend status could be yours.
But dont delay this offer is only for the next 5 callers.

www.inyourdreams.com

[sms316]

The secret - practice your arse off at all aspects of your game. This includes having regular lessons, whether you are hitting it good/bad/indifferent.

Shhh - don't tell anyone.

[markTHEblake]

You're outdoing yourself, Blake.

well it really is a dumb question.

virtually every answer that has been given is a tip that applies equally to any golfer that wants to improve, not specifically to become a low marker.

[3oneday]

Course management, I had 4 birdies on Satdy around Dunheved and still shot 80 !

Keep it in play, don't aim at sucker pins (in fact, don't aim at any pins) and think you can sink any putt inside 20 feet !

[v205]

"I'm a terrible putter..."

"Hit your approach closer to the pin!"

[Johnston]

I am not sure if there is any secret apart from having some balls and determination as well as an attitude that borders on being serious and carefree and finding that balance between the 2 if that is possible.

[PeteyD]

What we have here, is a failure, to communicate.

[Fishman Dan]

Don't play after minimal sleep following a successful poker night which ended hours prior to your tee time.

[Scottt]

Don't play after minimal sleep following a successful poker night which ended hours prior to your tee time.

So what you're saying is always plan a good excuse?

[Mayhem]

Playing to your strength is a definate positive. Don't try to hit all the shots in the hero blogs and stick to what you know you can do well. Practice and pro advice must be right up there. I have found quality rather than quantity works well when you practice. Know what you need to work on. Get a plan an how to achieve your goal. Practice it. I have done this with my iron shots and have hit more greens in reg.

Just can putt now. I have been working on that but am struggling with determining how to build a good consistent stroke. Working on it.

[adlo]

Mayhem, I have a few tips I picked up from a good putting lesson I had. They are yours for free next time we play (in a social round).

[Mayhem]

Social round?? Good thing about playing Wembly together is we are in different divisions now. Comp round may be fine?? I have been working on the putting a fair bit. I try repeating the same thing but it feels different and gets different results. A hand would be handy.

[adlo]

No worries. I am happy to throw a few ideas at you when you are in a comp, just won't do it without someone saying it is OK. It messes with my head when I am thinking about new things during a round, I have enough stupid thoughts going through my head :)

I think we can get a smooth putting stroke working in no time.

[CallyFTi]

What about the mental side of the game? All I have read is practice this and practice that, of course all that is very important, but you all know the basic swing concepts and how to stroke a putt.

If you really want to improve, you have to improve the mental side of golf, visualisation etc, for example, seeing the ball go in the hole and then step up and do it. Or on a long hole you know you can't reach, play it as a 3 shotter, yes you may make a bogey, and sometimes a par, but that is better than a double or worse.....

Golf is 95% in your head and 5% technique :)

If your mental game is good, you won't be sucked into going for sucker pins or trying hero shots, playing the shots that you know you cannot pull off in the back of your mind, which is not positive.
You would play to your strengths and never your weaknesses, but the time to practice your weaknesses is on the practice area and make them strengths.

Improving my mental game has helped reduce my handicap and shoot under par off the stick :)

[Boonie]

..see next post, messed this up.

[Boonie]

If your mental game is good, you won't be sucked into going for sucker pins or trying hero shots

...and if your technique is good you can go for sucker pins and play hero shots!

[Boonie]

I've seen you play Boonie..you suck !

I personally don't recall ever playing together 69'er:-k....however I didn't refer to myself in my post. I was more referring to hero bunker shots that genuine guns like you play over and over again.

[v205]

Someone once said to me

"The secret? Sure...the secret is there is none. There is only practice." What a spoil spot.

Whatever happened to "Grip it this way... there...single handicapper now." :>

[virge666]

well it really is a dumb question.

virtually every answer that has been given is a tip that applies equally to any golfer that wants to improve, not specifically to become a low marker.

+1 on all that.

Lower markers hit the ball better, they got this way by practicing and learning how to play the game. It takes time, effort, a few tantrums and a few breakthoughs.

Personally, as long as my body holds up, and even if I take 2 years off - I will never play off double figures again. That is because all low markers have a grasp of the basic fundementals.

If you are playing off double figures than you quite simply do not.

[PeteyD]

Nah you are full of it. There is a low marker secret that you won't share with us hackerators! ;)

[Fishman Dan]

It's all about where you hit the tree.

[virge666]

Nah you are full of it. There is a low marker secret that you won't share with us hackerators! ;)


yeah - your right.

The secret of golf is to have your elbows pointing at your hips at all times.

Enjoy

[adlo]

yeah - your right.

The secret of golf is to have your elbows pointing at your hips at all times.

Enjoy
Virge, it has been a while since you ended a post with Enjoy. Classic stuff.

[Mayhem]

yeah - your right.

The secret of golf is to have your elbows pointing at your hips at all times.

Enjoy

Sounds easy mate.................ah ah...........wouldn't know what that looks like. I will try though.

In your experience is mental game or good technique more common in low markers?

I have found working on my mental game has had more impact on my game lately. This is largely because I have not had time to go to the range.
The range helps my metal game too. It all goes in circles.

[PeteyD]

Both. I am totally mental and my game reflects that.

[razaar]

yeah - your right.

The secret of golf is to have your elbows pointing at your hips at all times.

Enjoy
Love it, heehee.

Four things all low markers have in commom IMO - stay centred, control of the clubface, target awareness & don't interfere with their natural ability. If there is a secret to the golf swing it is staying centred. Control of the clubface means control of the ball. Target awareness is esential to scoring. Natural ability is that special something that we do subconsciously.

[dan]

The secret is in the dirt........apparently.:-s

[virge666]

Sounds easy mate.................ah . This is largely because I have not had time to go to the range.
The range helps my metal game too. It all goes in circles.

I am more a discipline person that a "mental side" kind of player.

The mental game is for people who put pressure on themselves... it is a sports game FFS.

Just work out soemthing you can repeat and then trust it. then repeat it.

[adlo]

I am more a discipline person that a "mental side" kind of player.

The mental game is for people who put pressure on themselves... it is a sports game FFS.

Just work out soemthing you can repeat and then trust it. then repeat it.

I think that is the crux of a good mental game too though Virge.

[adlo]

OK, this might sound like a stupid question Virge, but what are good ways to repeat swing patterns so they get ingrained?

I think the problem of many mid markers, like me, is that we can shoot the lights out one day and play like crap the next. For me a big part of that is ball striking with irons... inconsistent. Some days it feels easy to "repeat" a great swing and other days it doesn't. Any tips?

[v205]

I'd be interested in what low markers are currently thinking as their main swing thoughts?

ie.. always point elbow at body... don't collapse the knee foundation...

Not that I'm a low marker... but my current swing thoughts are:
- keep the wrist firm through contact ( due to being a bit of a flipper)
- don't put pressure on the grip with the thumb (wrong to use thumb for power?)

What's yours? :D

[3oneday]

Where's this one going.

[Scottt]

Same place every thread here goes!

[3oneday]

Same place every thread here goes!

sorry, that was my swing thought :lol:

[Scottt]

:lol:

In that case: low and left ;)

[BrisVegas]

I think the problem of many mid markers, like me, is that we can shoot the lights out one day and play like crap the next. For me a big part of that is ball striking with irons... inconsistent.

That is precisely why I am getting lessons at the moment. :(

[LarryLong]

Booooooooooo-yah!!!!!!!

Maybe that's why I'm not privy to the Secret. :)

[sms316]

I'd be interested in what low markers are currently thinking as their main swing thoughts?

I work on a "checkpoint". Making sure that the clubhead is directly behind my hands when the shaft is parrallel to the ground on the way back.

Everything else takes care of itself after that. If I don't go through that point, I don't have much chance of getting in the right position from there.

[LarryLong]

I work on a "checkpoint". Making sure that the clubhead is directly behind my hands when the shaft is parrallel to the ground on the way back.

Everything else takes care of itself after that. If I don't go through that point, I don't have much chance of getting in the right position from there.

I always go back to this If I ever mess my swing up by trying stupid things I read on golf forums. The ball definately goes better for me if that's the only thing I worry about.

[virge666]

When you are out driving an manual car... What do you think when you change gears ? SFA - right ? you just change gears.

Now . . . go back in time to when you were learning how to drive a manual. What were you thinking back then ?

Low markers have learnt to change gears without thinking about it. Not saying we don't screw up a few changes... but we are not thinking about it when doing it.

That is the best i can do. Enjoy.

[Chris32]

Funny, the last few rounds I have played, I have only ever thought about 2 things whilst over the ball.

Target - settle on a target, and as I am over the ball, look up and double check my aiming point.

Ball - Once I have settled on that, then all I do is focus on the ball.

Swing wise, unless I am trying to hit a specific shape or bend it around something I don't think of anything.

The results of my last half a dozen rounds are a massive improvement over those of 6 months ago

[Moe Norman]

I don't think about much at all when addressing the ball, that is until I have hit a bad shot...

[adlo]

That is precisely why I am getting lessons at the moment. :(
Was fortunate to have a round with Willow, David Williams, today. Got some great advice. Once it settles in we'll see how the irons go.

When you are out driving an manual car... What do you think when you change gears ? SFA - right ? you just change gears.

Now . . . go back in time to when you were learning how to drive a manual. What were you thinking back then ?

Low markers have learnt to change gears without thinking about it. Not saying we don't screw up a few changes... but we are not thinking about it when doing it.

That is the best i can do. Enjoy.
Makes sense.

It is hard to explain why that is so hard to do..... you want to keep improving and investing in your swing, but that tends to keep your head full of stuff which can produce poor results on the course. So if you switch off your brain and try and trust your swing sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And when it doesn't work you go back to working on your swing and filling your brain with information and the cycle continues..... :-s brain melt

[Scottt]

Adlo, I'd suggest the good players do their thinking and grooving on the range, so when they play, the swing is dependable and repeatably. Turning the head off only works, IMO, if the body is trustworthy.

[Mayhem]

Adlo, I'd suggest the good players do their thinking and grooving on the range, so when they play, the swing is dependable and repeatably. Turning the head off only works, IMO, if the body is trustworthy.

I tend to play my best my golf when I am not thinking. I make sure my address is right, swing natural, keep my head down and follow through. That is the routine I am trying to get into right now. Having said that if I hit a bad shot..............I try to adjust and try different things. Thinking while you are swinging.............I have never hit a good shot in this mindset. Still some days I can't go unconscious.

[Johnny Canuck]

no real swing thought for me. i just make sure i am aiming where i want and am set to hit the shot i want. the rest of it happens automatically.

if i start having problems with a certain thing during a round, i might find my correction, ensure i do it a couple times and then settle back into thoughtlessness.

[adlo]

no real swing thought for me. i just make sure i am aiming where i want and am set to hit the shot i want. the rest of it happens automatically.

if i start having problems with a certain thing during a round, i might find my correction, ensure i do it a couple times and then settle back into thoughtlessness.
I just thought it was because Canadians can't multi task.

[Mayhem]

no real swing thought for me. i just make sure i am aiming where i want and am set to hit the shot i want. the rest of it happens automatically.

if i start having problems with a certain thing during a round, i might find my correction, ensure i do it a couple times and then settle back into thoughtlessness.

Ah sweet thoughtlessness

:-k

[adlo]

Adlo, I'd suggest the good players do their thinking and grooving on the range, so when they play, the swing is dependable and repeatably. Turning the head off only works, IMO, if the body is trustworthy.
You are right, but I never practice.... so I am screwed. Oh well.

[Johnny Canuck]

Practice is overrated. Get on the course and play!