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Scottt
8th April 2009, 05:39 PM
Fellas,

Here it is. Thoughts?

The hands already being behind me at hip level and the loss of posture at impact are standing out to me, along with a possible late introduction of the hips - which has always been an issue for me.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/98e1c52933.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
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Jarro
8th April 2009, 05:40 PM
Mighty nice backyard you have there :shock:

gazgolf1
8th April 2009, 05:42 PM
Virge?

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 06:00 PM
Is that a compost bin in the corner?

Scottt
8th April 2009, 06:02 PM
Good spot uber, indeed it is.

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 06:05 PM
In a yard that small, what do you do with compost?

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 06:07 PM
You look like a Jim Hardy OPS student to me.. who are you modelling your swing on?

LarryLong
8th April 2009, 06:12 PM
In a yard that small, what do you do with compost?

Quality question, that. :smt038

Scottt
8th April 2009, 06:16 PM
Dunno uber, it was there when we moved in, but I am heartened to see you were listening during our threadjacking lesson yesterday.

LarryLong
8th April 2009, 06:27 PM
OK then, on topic. :)

I'm sure the resident experts will weigh in on this one, but it looks to me like your hands are a long way 'behind your back' at the top. Is this good?

I know if I try to do that I'm heading for a snap-hook, but I'm hardly one to dish out advice.

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 06:28 PM
What Are you working on RSS, Hardy, TGM?

Scottt
8th April 2009, 06:29 PM
You look like a Jim Hardy OPS student to me.. who are you modelling your swing on?

I'm a student of trial and error. More of the latter than the former :lol:. As a teen I liked to think I swung it like Lonard. I clearly don't, but I'm happy enough not modelling myself on anyone, because we're all physically different.

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 06:34 PM
A Swing model is something to aspire to, not actually be per se, So a model will contain all of the elements that you have and those that you don't that you will see I hope easily and be able to work on. That's why I like Edwin so much.

However, I do have lots of Hardy I can talk about as well.

Obbos from the pics.

pic 1..Your weight is almost certainly back on your heels, not the balls of your feet. plenty of angle at the knees to tell you that, I think you'll benefit from them being straighter, but with a hint of flex there. It will let you get your buttocks out mor and your arms will now 'hang' a little more freely.

Scottt
8th April 2009, 06:38 PM
face-on pics added to OP

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 06:41 PM
pic 2. Right leg looks like it has straightened right out and gone backwards, it should retain its flex point. I reckon your body mass would be over the outside of your pelvis at this point. probably way too far.

See how you can see plenty of the shaft and the blur of the clubhead behind you,
(i'd love to draw lines here) that blur needs to be closer to your hands so you are maintianing your radius from the centre of your body to the club head. (have a look at where 3someday had his club at the 9 oclock possy in virges commentary vid a few days ago)

Scottt
8th April 2009, 06:43 PM
That much is among my worries uber, because I fear that I get it so far behind me that I get a bit stuck.

Should I be trying to replicate Tiger's possie in this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp1BvVQbUTQ)?

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 06:55 PM
pic 3.. comes from pic 2 really .. see how the shaft is pointing over to the left of the frame..fix it at pic 2 and pic 3 will be better..where it should be pointing more at the target. Your shoulders could be a little more horizontal here for mine.

next couple of pics to drop it on plane.

Impact pic. Left side looks like it is going up, not backwards, also look at your right leg/ hip between pics 4 and 5.. almost the same shape, hasn't moved at all, but the right shoulder has gone way under not around to get the club back somewhere near on plane at impact.

try working the right hip around and level a bit more as the shoulders turn not work vertically as they begin to let the arms pass in front of your body.

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 07:05 PM
first step I would work on is the take away..Toe of the club pointing straight up in the air at nine o'clock, hands/handle just past your right foot, then back to address. Have you got GE's RRS DVD? theres a good part on it where he just hammers a club into an impact bag from this position..

Jono
8th April 2009, 07:12 PM
Scott,

you can't post video? Still pics only tell half the story.

What's your normal shot shape? Your typical bad shot?

Scottt
8th April 2009, 07:17 PM
Virge has played with me enough to answer these questions objectively.

Vid is tiny. I will try to post.

Shape is a 3-4m draw with irons/hybrids and dead straight with driver, tending to a fade.

Miss is a push, usually.

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 07:25 PM
First two pics face on.. Set up is nice and level, but your not really "against the wall"

Second pic.. see how your right side angle completely dissappears..mass has gone way over..

As I said first step would be a set up drill to get your body shape right then just take it back to parallel like I said in the previous post, and while holding that shape,hit the impact bag for a few days..

Jono
8th April 2009, 08:01 PM
I bet Scott's thinking, "Where's my Virge? I want Virge ..."

:p





:lol:

Scottt
8th April 2009, 08:17 PM
:lol: not at all Jono...

I did some mirror work now trying to get the clubhead blocking my hands at 9 o'clock, felt like I was taking the club away towards second slip!

adlo
8th April 2009, 08:22 PM
I love it how there is no final pic face on, I'm assuming Scottt just planted his iron into the fence and snapped it clean in two.....

Scottt
8th April 2009, 08:38 PM
It didn't miss by much Adlo, I'll tell you that much. The first vid, which didn't come out well enough features my missus (holding the camera) saying "f**k Scott, you nearly knocked the fence over" :lol: I didn't have a practice first to make sure I'd have room!

adlo
8th April 2009, 08:41 PM
:lol: :lol:

With my long arms I would have swung a choked down wedge to be safe.

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 08:47 PM
:lol: not at all Jono...

I did some mirror work now trying to get the clubhead blocking my hands at 9 o'clock, felt like I was taking the club away towards second slip!

But now your not.. bet if you take a pic of yourself doing the drill to the nine o clock pos and compared it to your swing pic and you'll know right away - it aint at 2nd slip its at the keeper.

This is the beauty of the RSS..Thats your hitting position too.. provided you have set the angles and you retain them, you'll come back to this position to hit the ball from time and time again

Scottt
8th April 2009, 08:50 PM
Stop making sense, Uber. :lol:

The pro at my club is pretty well regarded. I'm thinking I should bite the bullet and get some lessons.

adlo
8th April 2009, 08:50 PM
Slight threadjack u8er, but why do a lot of players struggle with the longer clubs (ie driver) with RSS and S&T?

Johnny Canuck
8th April 2009, 09:04 PM
The yard really isn't that small. Scottt is a giant.

adlo
8th April 2009, 09:07 PM
The yard really isn't that small. Scottt is a giant.
:smt038:smt038:smt038

Scottt
8th April 2009, 09:08 PM
:lol:

Yeah, that's actually a full-size soccer field, right there...

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 09:30 PM
Slight threadjack u8er, but why do a lot of players struggle with the longer clubs (ie driver) with RSS and S&T?

Flatter plane from final 1/4 of downswing thru to impact - remember ideally your hands come back to the same position as what they were at address. It is essential with RSS, so there is bigger errors with it the longer the club gets as the radius is greater, if your not doin it right.

Don't know much about the stack N' Broken Back suffice to say if Badds has had enough of it, must be plenty of others leaving the camp now as well.

It was always to 'hipsy for mine, and if your mucking around with mass movement like that, well,just a little off and 'whoa where did that one go' seemed to be the case.

RSS players for mine always miss to the right, and its like its squeezed out, cut and low. Edwin is an extrme anti hook anti left way of playing golf.

I've seen plenty fighting rotation, trying to hold the club in front of the chicken wing instead of letting it catch it and pass it, letting the hands go down the 'messy' target line instead of moving out and around the left pocket.

What I've got from GE over time is the insistence that almost always the reason for the miss is always the same urge to fight a continuously bad ingrained habit of the golfer. So they can be different per player.

adlo
8th April 2009, 09:38 PM
Thanks for the answer. Makes sense.

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 09:44 PM
Stop making sense, Uber. :lol:

The pro at my club is pretty well regarded. I'm thinking I should bite the bullet and get some lessons.

You in the UK?

why don't you go and see one of the GE instructors there.. email Luke and they'll give you the contact details..

Scottt
8th April 2009, 09:46 PM
I'm not a big fan of a full-on drink-the-kool-aid RSS experience, from what I have seen.

Andrew Reynolds is my club pro. Not sure if he has an affiliation.

u8ergolfer
8th April 2009, 09:53 PM
2 things you should do in life before you die...

1. Convert to the Right Side


2. Support The Mighty Saints

adlo
8th April 2009, 09:54 PM
They do drink Kool Aid in the GE camp don't they :)

virge666
8th April 2009, 10:53 PM
Virge?

There is no ball, not going to waste anyone's time if there is no ball.

Scottt
8th April 2009, 11:01 PM
C'mon Virge. Humour me.

Jono
8th April 2009, 11:09 PM
I actually agree with Virge on this one. :shock: :lol:

Scott, hit something. Even if it is a whiffle ball. And aim it at something. Even if it is a spot on your fence.

Your swing can look totally different.

Scottt
8th April 2009, 11:20 PM
There was a balled up piece of paper there then...

adlo
8th April 2009, 11:22 PM
You were aiming for a specific blade of grass.

Scottt
8th April 2009, 11:28 PM
Okay.

A couple of questions then. I want my hips and shaft to be parallel when my hands are at 9 o'clock?

It feels more normal with a bit of backyard practice, but feels much more upright, Is that correct?

Next chance I get to practice for real will be when I play on Friday. Trial by fire.

Scottt
9th April 2009, 12:36 AM
Looks better already, IMO

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Scottt
9th April 2009, 12:38 AM
First thing I notice is how much more the right elbow is pointing straight down. And it actually looks like a golf swing! Kinda...

u8ergolfer
9th April 2009, 07:00 AM
Without a pill just take it to the position in the first pic, resist the temptation to swing beyond this point...' could be the pic angle tho' but don't push your left arm away from your chest to do this, it sort of comes across and squeezes against it. You could do with the arms moving it to this position with say half as much initial shoulder rotation as your second lot pof pics displayed..when you have the toe of the club in the air did your left fist cover up the last few toes and top of the arch of your right fight when you look down?

This position is only really neutral for some.. if you have a look at Pampling on youtube, you'll see plenty of vids where he has rotated it even more than this.

As for no ball, I'll defer there, however if your practicing positions and angles, no need for one IMHO. But an impact bag as I said would be the trick in the back yard.

u8ergolfer
9th April 2009, 07:01 AM
And next time your down the range tape your swing from front on and behind..

virge666
9th April 2009, 08:24 AM
Slight threadjack u8er, but why do a lot of players struggle with the longer clubs (ie driver) with RSS and S&T?


They don't, I find the RSS makes the long clubs WAY WAY easier. it just doesn't feel as powerful as spinning those hips and hanging behind it.

The only time you will have trouble with longer irons is when you do the bullshit Edwin imitation of sticking out your left hip and swinging with your arms only.

:)

u8ergolfer
9th April 2009, 09:18 AM
Virge, do you lean towards the Kevin Healey model RSS more?

razaar
9th April 2009, 09:40 AM
Scottt...if your backyard is that wide , how wide is the house/unit. Or have you been relegated to the dog run?:lol:

adlo
9th April 2009, 10:12 AM
They don't, I find the RSS makes the long clubs WAY WAY easier. it just doesn't feel as powerful as spinning those hips and hanging behind it.

The only time you will have trouble with longer irons is when you do the bullshit Edwin imitation of sticking out your left hip and swinging with your arms only.

:)

Which is what I have seen :cry:

virge666
9th April 2009, 10:31 AM
Virge, do you lean towards the Kevin Healey model RSS more?

I see both sides and really . . . there ain't that much of a difference. I know the hips work differently, and the arms load up inside a bit more with Gaz... but really, we are all in the same boat.

I look for 5 things in a swing.

Good setup position,
A good turn in the right direction
early release of the hands on the downswing
A body or hands release.
A finish over the shoulders.

I like to see fast arms and a slow stable lower body, i dont really care if you clear the hips like Pamps or hold them like Rebecca. As long as you have good store up and release either the back or the body... it is all good.

u8ergolfer
9th April 2009, 10:51 AM
So sometimes I'll see guys go.. I can do that..then they proceed to do " The Bullshit Edwin Imitation " Oh how many people think thats' all there is to it.. touche..

moree golfer
9th April 2009, 11:26 AM
I look for 5 things in a swing.

Good setup position,
A good turn in the right direction
early release of the hands on the downswing
A body or hands release.
A finish over the shoulders.

I like to see fast arms and a slow stable lower body, i dont really care if you clear the hips like Pamps or hold them like Rebecca. As long as you have good store up and release either the back or the body... it is all good.
Virge, when you say early release of the hands in the downswing I presume that is different to casting, which is not desirable? I have been working especially hard on keeping the bend in my right wrist through impact while turning with my upper body. Am I on the right track concentrating on the wrist position?

virge666
9th April 2009, 11:41 AM
Virge, when you say early release of the hands in the downswing I presume that is different to casting, which is not desirable? I have been working especially hard on keeping the bend in my right wrist through impact while turning with my upper body. Am I on the right track concentrating on the wrist position?


OK,

Great Question.

Casting = Losing the angle in the right wrist early.
Early release = Uncocking the right wrist on plane early in the downswing to build up some club head speed.

Early release is different to casting as the angle stays in the right wrist all the way down.

Think Karate chop vs a "Slap" - the slap loses the angle in the right wrist and the karate chop doesn't

Learn this and you will be playing off single figures in 2 weeks.

moree golfer
9th April 2009, 11:54 AM
Thanks Virge, its good to know that if I get this right I may finally hit GIR more often, and not before time. Our club champs follow Easter and I am ready to smash all-comers in C-Grade lol.

virge666
9th April 2009, 11:56 AM
Thanks Virge, its good to know that if I get this right I may finally hit GIR more often, and not before time. Our club champs follow Easter and I am ready to smash all-comers in C-Grade lol.

Aren't you a B-Grader ?

An easy way to do it is to think of "casting on plane"

Do it with your wedge - and you will see immediatley a lower ball flight with more spin.