Bag Setup

[u8ergolfer]

The two driver thread got me thinking, and for fear of hijaking it thought I'd start this one.

Most Am's I know would benefit from setting up their bag with a nod to distance control above all else. I used to become sick of trying to explain how to set up the golf bag to guys who think its just itto be able to hit an 8 iron 170 metres, but now I'm just amused at their ignorance.

Heres my rules.. they aren't hard and fast, but they get the job done.

I like three go to distances in my bag covered. these are 200m, 150m, and 100m.
thus the club for these are:

200m = rescue/hybrid.

150m = 7 iron (or 6 depending on wedges).

100m = gap wedge.

I don't carry a three Iron, preferring to carry four wedges myself.

my wedges are

112m = Pitch. (47 degree at the MMT)

100m = Gap. (51 bent to 50)

85m = Sand (56/14 deg - plenty of bounce)

70m = Lob. (60 bent to 59)

Now filling the gap between the 112/115 distances,

125m = 9 iron

137m = 8 iron

150m = 7 iron

and then the 150m to 200m distances

158m = 6 iron

167m = 5 iron

180m = 4 iron

200m = hybrid

The three metal (wood) goes 220m nicely and I don't want it going any more,

Finally the driver, Which I FLY AT BEST only 252m. Its' essential to know how far this will fly (as opposed to finishing) 'cause it all about carrying things with it, not hitting it a dead distance to something. If I'm out to do this I will hit something far far shorter anyway.

I've got things nicely balanced, 7 clubs below the 150 meterage ( See where the scoring zone is) and 3 clubs above 150 to the 200m point, beyond that, only the big dog and the three metal.

[virge666]

That is eerie - almost identical - like exactly identical..

really weird.

[u8ergolfer]

Don't really play much else other than by numbers now Virge...Everything equates back to a number, wind/ elevation/ temp/ humidity/ time of day/ (not that every item has to be callculated for every shot mind) just soooo surprising how few people go about playing this way..another thing so many of them believe that the distance they hit their clubs at the range is the distance they'll hit it on the golf course as well..Ain't soo I'm afraid.

[Scottt]

112m = Pitch

125m = 9 iron

137m = 8 iron

150m = 7 iron

158m = 6 iron...


I notice you go from 12/13m gaps in the your short irons to 8/9 at the 7-6 area onwards. What are your lofts through the bag?

[Moe Norman]

those yardages are way too specific for me.

Driver: As far as possible
3-Wood: 220-230
19* Hybrid: 215
23* Hybrid: 200
4 iron: 185
5 iron: 175
6 iron: 165
7 iron: 155
8 iron: 145
9 iron: 130
PW: 120
53*: 100 and under
57*: rarely use it

[u8ergolfer]

On the longer ones' would have to honestly say don't know. currently using my old RAC LT (the older ones), after being seduced for the Tour Preferred last yr. didn't like the shape of em after a while, so they are keeping company with the beer fridge in the shed at the moment.

I do know the wedges, and 9 iron 'cause I check em pretty well monthly. (yesterday actually) 9 iron was 43. std lie angle.

I'm prepared to live with that big gap @ 180 - 200m to get an extra stick to use under 150m.

I'd prefer the gaps probably closer to 10 apart, but these are the numbers i've got used to. I don't find it all that hard to chew a bit off one or chip one if i need to down in these distances either.

[u8ergolfer]

My numbers come from the course, recording results where shots finished - factoring for wind etc, you get a gauge for em over a long period, If you read into my figures, you could also say this for example..

112m pitch means it won't go 115... and the 137m 8 iron means it won't go 140..(or rarely would it go that far etc)

[Moe Norman]

Mine vary greatly, as I hit different shots as the situation suits.

As an example, I list my 7 iron as 155m, but I know I can hit an 8 iron that far if I need to, and if the situation demands it I can obviously knock a 7 iron down to 120m

[u8ergolfer]

To compare lists then Moe, As I said in my initial post, I've factored for 7 clubs under 150m, on your figures, in your bag, there would only be 5. It surprises me that you don't have at least a distance for an 85% shot with your 57. Also, why don't you know how far your driver flies? No point bombing it as hard as possible over a 230m fairway trap on the inside of a dogleg if the runout through the f'way is 270, and you don't know the distance.

One thing I've learnt is I gain no benefit whatsover in trying to get an 'extra 5' from a club. I just loose control of the spin on the pill that way. But I know plenty that will rather hit something harder than softer, that's not me tho..

[virge666]

Everything equates back to a number

This is how professionals do it.

For this number I hit this club.
not
I can hit this club that number.

While it sounds very similar - it is VERY VERY different, especially on a golf course.

[Scottt]

carry in metres
dr 200 (my trap-carrying cut off, though 205-210 is maybe more correct)
1h 185
3h 175
4i 165
5i 160
6i 150
7i 140
8i 130
9i 120
pw 110
gw 95
sw 80

Then translating to yards and allowing for wind, elevation and run consipre to confuse me :lol:

[u8ergolfer]

This is how professionals do it.

For this number I hit this club.
not
I can hit this club that number.

While it sounds very similar - it is VERY VERY different, especially on a golf course.

That's why in my original post I started with the meterage Virge..:-k;)

[Moe Norman]

To compare lists then Moe, As I said in my initial post, I've factored for 7 clubs under 150m, on your figures, in your bag, there would only be 5. Not really. As a standard thing, if I'm 150 out I would be more likely to hit a 6 iron than a 7 iron - but there are so many variables its not worth me trying to list how far I hit each club.



It surprises me that you don't have at least a distance for an 85% shot with your 57. I never hit it more than 20m.


Also, why don't you know how far your driver flies? No point bombing it as hard as possible over a 230m fairway trap on the inside of a dogleg if the runout through the f'way is 270, and you don't know the distance. I know that I can make a 220m carry if I hit it correctly, but generally if I needed to hit it 220m to carry water, I probably would layup. I know that I can hit my driver 290 - 300m once in every 20 hits, so I don't kid myself that I know how far its going.


One thing I've learnt is I gain no benefit whatsover in trying to get an 'extra 5' from a club. I just loose control of the spin on the pill that way. But I know plenty that will rather hit something harder than softer, that's not me tho..Depends. If I'm behind a tree and 150m out, I will go for a very hard 8 iron, just for the extra loft to get over the tree. Or if I am 150 out and the pin is tucked behind a trap on the right. I will aim a soft 6 iron at the middle and try to hit a fade. If its on the left, I will aim a 7 iron at the middle and try to hit a soft draw. If there is room to run it in, it might be an 8 iron and a low punchy draw for control etc etc

[Scottt]

This is how professionals do it.

For this number I hit this club.
not
I can hit this club that number.

While it sounds very similar - it is VERY VERY different, especially on a golf course.

Can you elaborate on that, Virge. I'm interested...

[virge666]

Can you elaborate on that, Virge. I'm interested...

It is about mind set and setup. it sounds like exactly the same thing... but it aint. Working off numbers and not clubs frees up you mind in an amazing way.

Go out and hit some balls on a range or radar kit. Hit 10 balls and work out your longest and shortest. Use those numbers instead of a 150m club. So you now have a 142-154m club. As you get better - these "ranges" get smaller.

Bring that to the golf course and see how much better you play. It will blow your mind.

[henno]

And to think I got called a pensioner for saying that my 8-iron sometimes goes 140m and sometimes goes 130m :-P

[adlo]

And to think I got called a pensioner for saying that my 8-iron sometimes goes 140m and sometimes goes 130m :-P
Seemed a bit rough

[virge666]

And to think I got called a pensioner for saying that my 8-iron sometimes goes 140m and sometimes goes 130m :-P


I know Scott fitness regime. And I have read about yours...

Slight difference hence the dig. :)

[Scottt]

I don't follow. Are you saying I'm a fat prick?

[u8ergolfer]

And to think I got called a pensioner for saying that my 8-iron sometimes goes 140m and sometimes goes 130m :-P

So you need to play for the distance it most often goes, not best case it goes this..and keep your measurements..use your GPS shot track, or if your lasering, + or - it from the point you lasered at.

[virge666]

I don't follow. Are you saying I'm a fat prick?


Henno's workout below, what's yours ?

-----
Monday - Bis, Tris, shoulders
Tuesday - Chest, back, lats
Wednesday - Cardio (run, bike or squash)
Thursday - Leg day
Friday or Saturday (not both) - Cardio again (if I plan to get pissed Friday night, I go friday afternoon, otherwise saturday morning)
-----

[u8ergolfer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by u8ergolfer http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/images/ozgolf/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/showthread.php?p=303742#post303742)
To compare lists then Moe, As I said in my initial post, I've factored for 7 clubs under 150m, on your figures, in your bag, there would only be 5.

Not really. As a standard thing, if I'm 150 out I would be more likely to hit a 6 iron than a 7 iron - but there are so many variables its not worth me trying to list how far I hit each club.

NOt after you listing how many variables there are or how far you hit it, what you need to do is keep it simple, ELIMINATE variables, you do this by coming back to one number - how far to where I need to hit it to, today!

dad de dah de dah..wind into off left.. uphill (x) metres..playing distance is therefore XXX..It is "Y" Iron then..

Smelly Pin.. dont want to play at it prefer to be short and right.. take (zz) off then..it is now XXX- (zz) metres ok now its "Y-1" iron.

Its simply an analytical commitment now..

[u8ergolfer]

Quote:
I never hit it more than 20m..

Need to surprise yourself with it one day and make it an effective member of your distance game..

[u8ergolfer]

Quote:

"I know that I can make a 220m carry if I hit it correctly, but generally if I needed to hit it 220m to carry water, I probably would layup. I know that I can hit my driver 290 - 300m once in every 20 hits, so I don't kid myself that I know how far its going."

220 over sand is the same as 220 over water if you trust your swing, So why wouldyou doubt hwhether you are going to hit it correctly or not? I suspect there is a touch of self doubt there, Bunker or water, a hazard is a hazard. Self trust is the ability to dispence with the self doubt because of the challenge it presents.

Measure your good ones whenever you hit them, take a mental note on where they landed, and where the finished..pace them off quickly and jot them down, keep track of them and in a few months you'll be much more aware of your capabilities.

[Scottt]

Henno's workout below, what's yours ?

-----
Monday - Bis, Tris, shoulders
Tuesday - Chest, back, lats
Wednesday - Cardio (run, bike or squash)
Thursday - Leg day
Friday or Saturday (not both) - Cardio again (if I plan to get pissed Friday night, I go friday afternoon, otherwise saturday morning)
-----

20min on treadmill at 2min intervals of 6.5km/h and 13.5km/h twice a week, two 1-1.5hr walks (quite brisk) with the missus through the common each week, two 20min stretching sessions and, it must be said, quite a fair bit of bed cardio lately :smt060 (I'm crediting the cooler temps).

I used to do lots of weights and crap when I played cricket and footy... now I can't be arsed. I have become appalingly lazy. I'm 101kg and my body fat would be about 20%. When I was 20 I was 108kg and bf% would have been 35%, I reckon. I was a massive fat prick.

In fact, anyone who owns Big Heavy Stuff's "Dear Friends and Enemies", there is a pic of me in the liner notes from about a month after I started losing the weight. You wouldn't be able to tell it's me.

Wow, now that is a threadjack :lol:

[Scottt]

Quote:
220 over sand is the same as 220 over water if you trust your swing, So why wouldyou doubt hwhether you are going to hit it correctly or not? I suspect there is a touch of self doubt there, Bunker or water, a hazard is a hazard. Self trust is the ability to dispence with the self doubt because of the challenge it presents.


That's like saying "running 200m through gunfire is just like running 200m through dudes throwing tennis balls, they're both missiles".

You can play from the sand, for starters...

[henno]

And you can be a further 150m up the fairway for 2. That's difficult to do after finding the water :-)

[u8ergolfer]

That's like saying "running 200m through gunfire is just like running 200m through dudes throwing tennis balls, they're both missiles".

You can play from the sand, for starters...

Lack of Commitment there Scottt? if you've got 200 to carry, and the advantages lie beyond it, (approach angle, club for next shot etc), then you trust it and take it, 'cause in my book its a no brainer.

If you don't then you play the shot that makes your next one easiest.

And no, it aint running through gunfire BTW its a game,unfortunately some I'm sure see it like that.

[u8ergolfer]

And you can be a further 150m up the fairway for 2. That's difficult to do after finding the water :-)


At what point do the wobbly knees kick in then round here? I'm getting the impression there aint too many of you out there that really trust your swings.......

[Scottt]

WTF?

Our point was that a bunker and a water hazard to not penalise you equally.

[henno]

I lost 5 balls on Sunday, 6 balls the week before. My swing is about as trustworthy as a crooked car salesman at present.

[u8ergolfer]

WTF?

Our point was that a bunker and a water hazard to not penalise you equally.


I've got your mindset.. your hazard bound and penalty bound.. I ask you..how often do you play a shot to simply to avoid a penalty?

Do you stand on a tee or over a shot thinking " don't hit it in the water"
or "don't hit it in the bunker"

What if I said to you the carry over the water was only 50 metres.. You'd think that was easy.. but what if I said the carry over the greeside trap was 50 metres, but you only had 55 to the pin... would you avoid the shot and pitch it sideways?

[Scottt]

You've misunderstood me totally.

If I take a risk in golf, the reward needs to justify it. The reward for a 220m water carry needs to be greater than the same carry over a trap to tempt me because the punishment if I hit it in the hazard is greater.

I could thin it or toe it and not fly it the distance I flush it. That happens.

An approach shot from inside 160m is different to me than a drive, because I have options either side of the distance required. I wouldn't hit a 1 hybrid just over a hazard off the tee if I could hit driver, clear it easily and still be in the fairway, but from 140m in the target is more specific and clearing the immediate hazard is only half the equation.

[markTHEblake]

220 over sand is the same as 220 over water if you trust your swing,

Its not the same because the ball doesn't travel as far over water, and the hotter it is the greater the effect. Something like the humidity separates the air molecules, reducing the capacity of the spinning ball to produce lift.

I'd never heard this before in all my life until the weekend, this helicopter pilot explained it well, with the analogy, if he is hovering over water he needs to use 30% more power than if over land.

[u8ergolfer]

You've misunderstood me totally.

If I take a risk in golf, the reward needs to justify it. The reward for a 220m water carry needs to be greater than the same carry over a trap to tempt me because the punishment if I hit it in the hazard is greater.

I could thin it or toe it and not fly it the distance I flush it. That happens.

An approach shot from inside 160m is different to me than a drive, because I have options either side of the distance required. I wouldn't hit a 1 hybrid just over a hazard off the tee if I could hit driver, clear it easily and still be in the fairway, but from 140m in the target is more specific and clearing the immediate hazard is only half the equation.


Thats my point. I pose the need to carry a hazard for a result worth the risk..not simply because it can be done, that's amateur golf. The point was if it needs to be done, it can be done. But it won't happen often if at all with an immediate display of self doubt.

Likewise if A hybrid is only going to just clear a hazard why not take the big dog and ensure the job is done properly.. its the same thinking I see from so many when it comes to layup yardages.. I've lost count of the number of golfers who choose to layup for one reason or another take a club that gets them into the trouble they were trying to avoid by taking a club that is bound to get it to the hazard or whatever if they hit it their best.. every time to the man they get their best out with said club and sure enough in the shit..

The thread is about getting people away from being club bound to being more Meterage savvy..thinking the number first and how they can work with it withiout being tied a club.

[u8ergolfer]

Its not the same because the ball doesn't travel as far over water, and the hotter it is the greater the effect. Something like the humidity separates the air molecules, reducing the capacity of the spinning ball to produce lift.

I'd never heard this before in all my life until the weekend, this helicopter pilot explained it well, with the analogy, if he is hovering over water he needs to use 30% more power than if over land.


That's a good one.........

[Moe Norman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by u8ergolfer http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/images/ozgolf/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/showthread.php?p=303742#post303742)
To compare lists then Moe, As I said in my initial post, I've factored for 7 clubs under 150m, on your figures, in your bag, there would only be 5.

Not really. As a standard thing, if I'm 150 out I would be more likely to hit a 6 iron than a 7 iron - but there are so many variables its not worth me trying to list how far I hit each club.

NOt after you listing how many variables there are or how far you hit it, what you need to do is keep it simple, ELIMINATE variables, you do this by coming back to one number - how far to where I need to hit it to, today!

dad de dah de dah..wind into off left.. uphill (x) metres..playing distance is therefore XXX..It is "Y" Iron then..

Smelly Pin.. dont want to play at it prefer to be short and right.. take (zz) off then..it is now XXX- (zz) metres ok now its "Y-1" iron.

Its simply an analytical commitment now..
thanks.

Normally I just ignore wind, pin position, whether its uphill or downhill, what lie I have, what shot shape I need. Instead I just pull out a GPS device and a club to match the number :roll:

[adlo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by u8ergolfer http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/images/ozgolf/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/showthread.php?p=303742#post303742)
To compare lists then Moe, As I said in my initial post, I've factored for 7 clubs under 150m, on your figures, in your bag, there would only be 5.

Not really. As a standard thing, if I'm 150 out I would be more likely to hit a 6 iron than a 7 iron - but there are so many variables its not worth me trying to list how far I hit each club.

NOt after you listing how many variables there are or how far you hit it, what you need to do is keep it simple, ELIMINATE variables, you do this by coming back to one number - how far to where I need to hit it to, today!

dad de dah de dah..wind into off left.. uphill (x) metres..playing distance is therefore XXX..It is "Y" Iron then..

Smelly Pin.. dont want to play at it prefer to be short and right.. take (zz) off then..it is now XXX- (zz) metres ok now its "Y-1" iron.

Its simply an analytical commitment now..
Almost too easy :D

[markTHEblake]

Normally I just ignore wind, pin position, whether its uphill or downhill, what lie I have, what shot shape I need. Instead I just pull out a GPS device and a club to match the number :roll:

or we just do a Peter Thomson and go with the vibe of it.

[Scottt]

dad de dah de dah..wind into off left.. uphill (x) metres..playing distance is therefore XXX..It is "Y" Iron then..

Smelly Pin.. dont want to play at it prefer to be short and right.. take (zz) off then..it is now XXX- (zz) metres ok now its "Y-1" ironDoes youateagolfer think we mortals are just pulling a club based on what the sprinkler head says. I'm truly lost now.

I thought the unspoken assumption when asking what distance do you hit X was flat and still.

I get Virge's explanation of have a club for a distance instead of a distance for a club, but a lot of the rest of it just seems like an attempt to make something pretty simple and straightforward seem really complicated.

[adlo]

Scott, I think work out what the yardage is going to play like, then grab the club for that number.

Johnny Canuck is a good example. Say he is 135m out into a 2 club breeze to an uphill green, he will say it is playing 160m, convert it to 176 yards (ie he now has his "number") and grab his 176y club.

[Scottt]

That's what I was thinking. Doesn't everyone already do that?

I didn't realise there were people who didn't select a club that way... and I'm not being a smartarse. That would genuinely come as a surprise to me.

[adlo]

Agreed.

[u8ergolfer]

Scott, I think work out what the yardage is going to play like, then grab the club for that number.

Johnny Canuck is a good example. Say he is 135m out into a 2 club breeze to an uphill green, he will say it is playing 160m, convert it to 176 yards (ie he now has his "number") and grab his 176y club.


That's what I explained isn't it..process it back to a single number..distance required comes before thinking what club is required..

The Uphill/downhill is another..too many guys I know 'take one extra' or go back one without really taking into account the numerical influence of the shot..

As for Breeze,I have now for a few years rated it as a measure in metres..no longer is it 2 clubs or 3 clubs, so its 15m into, 20m help.

[Scottt]

That's all well and good, but you were explaining it like some earth-shattering breakthrough. I truly don't know a soul who doesn't already do that.

[u8ergolfer]

Observe some of your partners in the next week or two and, even yourself, and I bet you/they pull a club without having a solid meterage number every once in a while..I do and its a habit that hurts more than it helps..

You only have to fall into the habit once or twice a round and it'll cost you shots..

[Jono]

Henno's workout below, what's yours ?

-----
Monday - Bis, Tris, shoulders
Tuesday - Chest, back, lats
Wednesday - Cardio (run, bike or squash)
Thursday - Leg day
Friday or Saturday (not both) - Cardio again (if I plan to get pissed Friday night, I go friday afternoon, otherwise saturday morning)
-----


Do you think those exercises would have any bearing on how far he hits the ball?

[virge666]

Do you think those exercises would have any bearing on how far he hits the ball?

Yes. Heaps and heaps and heaps.

[Jono]

Yes. Heaps and heaps and heaps.

Probably made him shorter than he would have been if he did no weights.

[virge666]

Probably made him shorter than he would have been if he did no weights.

Bullshit.

[Webster]

Finally the driver, Which I FLY AT BEST only 252m.

That's a pretty big carry for the driver. What handicap do you play off?

[Jono]

Bullshit.

Bodybuilding style weightlifting is the worst thing you can do if you want to gain clubhead speed.

1) it moves heavy objects SLOWLY. Golf swing moves light thing FAST. Training the former does not train you for the latter.

2) it isolates the muscles. Great for rehab type work but shit if you are training for an explosive compound movement.

Some types of weight training are better than others at explosive movements. eg. olympic style lifting (c&j and snatches) and kettlebells.

When this flu wears off, I'll do a short video on types of exercises that will increase clubhead speed.

[grandmasterb]

I dont break up my bag the same way as you guys but i do carry the clubs i KNOW i can hit rather than those i SHOULD hit.

Basically my bag is:
Driver - 250+
hybrid - 220+
5 - 190+
6 - 180+
7 - 160+
8 - 150+
9 - 130+
PW - 120+
52 - 110+
56 - 100+
60 - 90+

[Jono]

I dont break up my bag the same way as you guys but i do carry the clubs i KNOW i can hit rather than those i SHOULD hit.

Basically my bag is:
Driver - 250+
hybrid - 220+


Are they carry distances? In meters?

[grandmasterb]

Are they carry distances? In meters?

Sorry should of said there in meters and yes thats carry.

*Zips on flame suit*

[BrisVegas]

hang on, have i loggged on to BSG by mistake?!!?!? :lol:

[u8ergolfer]

That's a pretty big carry for the driver. What handicap do you play off?


One of the legacies of growing up playing on Kikuyu fairways was learning to keep it in the air a long way.. my driver probably only gets 10 to 12 meters of roll out past that..

Thats where I've found ball spin control is critical to my game.

Mucked around with the Titleist performamce fitting centre a year or so ago, and they were the figures their launch montor came up with. I make a mental note of the meterage that I fly the ball as I play, and its pretty well within a couple of it.

They suggested a shaft change, went from 65g in x to 75g in S..which lowered my launch angle from 14 to 12.5 but got me up from a flight distance of 245m to 254m. That said, in still conditions, 255 is just out of my league.

[moree golfer]

Sorry should of said there in meters and yes thats carry.

*Zips on flame suit*
LOL :smt038 nice GMB

[virge666]

Bodybuilding style weightlifting is the worst thing you can do if you want to gain clubhead speed.


No one mentioned Body Building style weightlifting. no one at all.

I am just under 80Kg, I have put on about 8-9Kg in the last 12 months by going to the gym and adding strength. lot of legs, back, shoulders and chest. Bugger all cardio cause I bloody hate it.

I am more stable, better balanced and stronger than I have been since the Army a decade ago. There is more to the golf swing than just clubhead speed.

2 rules
- If you want clubhead speed - low weight - hi rep.
- If you want strength - High weight - low rep.

2 more rules.
- Gymwork of any kind is better than no gym work at all.
- Bigger guys hit the ball further than little guys.

1 last rule
- 21's suck.

:)

[virge666]

hang on, have i loggged on to BSG by mistake?!!?!? :lol:

Here we go . . .

< sits down with popcorn >

[grandmasterb]

LOL :smt038 nice GMB

Hey im only new here but i know the rules :mrgreen:


No one mentioned Body Building style weightlifting. no one at all.

I am just under 80Kg, I have put on about 8-9Kg in the last 12 months by going to the gym and adding strength. lot of legs, back, shoulders and chest. Bugger all cardio cause I bloody hate it.

I am more stable, better balanced and stronger than I have been since the Army a decade ago. There is more to the golf swing than just clubhead speed.

2 rules
- If you want clubhead speed - low weight - hi rep.
- If you want strength - High weight - low rep.

2 more rules.
- Gymwork of any kind is better than no gym work at all.
- Bigger guys hit the ball further than little guys.

1 last rule
- 21's suck.

:)

How tall are you virge, going off your vids id say your around the 6 foot mark???

[Hux]

Surely this discussion should have been reserved for a For Sale thread :-)

U8 raises good points for people with poor course management. However seems most people here have real no issues with course management.
Vegas on the other hand could do with some, he missed his approach on the 2nd at Brooky a couple of weeks ago by about 20mm from 150m out, perhaps a 6.99 iron would have been better than the 7 :-) :-)

[BrisVegas]

Vegas on the other hand could do with some, he missed his approach on the 2nd at Brooky a couple of weeks ago by about 20mm from 150m out, perhaps a 6.99 iron would have been better than the 7 :-) :-)

Weirdly enough I've parred or birdied the 2nd a lot lately, but have started to lose the plot on the 1st hole. I keep meaning to GPS plot the carry over the left traps, so I have something to aim for. I've had a lot more success on the 17th since I plotted the carry distance over the right traps, ie. go/no-go distance.

[Jono]

No one mentioned Body Building style weightlifting. no one at all.


By "bodybuilding" style, I meant the kind of training that isolates each muscle group, using controlled movement. Non explosive, slow stuff.

I look at Henno's workout plan, and I see a typical "bodybuilding" style workout. Great for stimulating muscle hypertrophy, not so good at training for explosive compound movements.



I am just under 80Kg, I have put on about 8-9Kg in the last 12 months by going to the gym and adding strength. lot of legs, back, shoulders and chest. Bugger all cardio cause I bloody hate it.


Strength and explosive power are two different things. Training for pure strength can actually DECREASE power production.




I am more stable, better balanced and stronger than I have been since the Army a decade ago. There is more to the golf swing than just clubhead speed.


That's not the point. You seemed to indicate that Henno should be hitting further because he is "fitter" and pumps iron at the gym.

My point is that it is a common misconception that lifting weights in isolated, slow manner (what I refer to as "bodybuilder style") will allow you to hit the ball further by increasing your clubhead speed.

You're better off doing faster, more explosive movements that will increase the recruitment of the type IIx fibers.

If you are weight training to gain more stability/strength, that's another story.




2 rules
- If you want clubhead speed - low weight - hi rep.
- If you want strength - High weight - low rep.

2 more rules.
- Gymwork of any kind is better than no gym work at all.
- Bigger guys hit the ball further than little guys.

1 last rule
- 21's suck.

:)

Virge, virge, virge ... I love the way you turn your opinions into "rules" ... :lol:

Why would you want to do high rep if you want to increase clubhead speed? Any research to back this up?

The right sort of gym work is better than no gym work at all for a specific task. If that task was to increase clubhead speed, doing slow contractions with weights can do more harm than good.

As to bigger guys hitting longer, just tell that to Jamie Sadlowski. If you have lots of type IIx fibers and you can recruit them, you'll outdrive big muscleheads any day.

[henno]

6'2" and 83kg. Any talk of "bodybuilding" is laughable.

[Jono]

I've had a lot more success on the 17th since I plotted the carry distance over the right traps, ie. go/no-go distance.

That's uphill as well, isn't it? How far to clear the traps from the blue tees?

[Jono]

6'2" and 83kg. Any talk of "bodybuilding" is laughable.

Really? So what kind of weight training do you do? Why do you isolate each muscle group?

[sms316]

6'2" and 83kg. Any talk of "bodybuilding" is laughable.
You don't even have the biggest pecs in your avatar.
:mrgreen:

[henno]

Really? So what kind of weight training do you do? Why do you isolate each muscle group?

Sort of. Biceps are about the only muscle I isolate on it's own (And as I have already discussed, biceps are effectively superficial "mirror muscles" anyhow).

I isolate muscle groups for sure, but not individual muscles, if that makes sense.

Deadlifts isolate 70-odd percent of the body's workable muscle, and they are a staple of the hardened bodybuilder. So I don't think it is fair to say bodybuilder-type excercises are the ones that isolate individual muscles.

For what it's worth, for any particular muscle group I always try to pick a compound exercises where I can. For example, back excercises are always chin-ups, rows etc... legs are always squats, lunges (rarely deadlifts though).

These are all well known compound exercises, but are still the staple of the hardcore bodybuilder.

[Jono]

OK. I'm being unfair to the bodybuilder. Yes they do compound exercises. I'm all for squats, deadlifts etc as strength gaining tool.

I don't like how bodybuilders train certain muscle groups only at a time. eg. biceps and back one day. triceps and chest another day. This might be great for creating muscle hypertrophy but this is not how we function in everyday life. Unless your goal is to get bigger muscles, I don't think you should train this way.

I'm by no means a fit athlete, but I was much worse. I had surgery about a year and a half ago which damaged my pituitary gland. I was tired all the time, and my joints were so stiff that I couldn't even get down on the ground. I started researching for ways of working out to give me FUNCTIONAL fitness. Then my Ho instincts took over and now I've got a fancy home gym. :roll:

:lol:

[virge666]

Virge, virge, virge ... I love the way you turn your opinions into "rules" ... :lol:


Cause it is easier without adding all your complicated rubbish KISS.



Why would you want to do high rep if you want to increase clubhead speed? Any research to back this up?


Tiger said so. Mike Weir's trainer said so. Adam Scott's trainer said so. Paul Casey's trainer said so. John Daly's trainer doesn't exist.

We are not talking about elite atheletes fine tuning their swing to meet AIS requirements, we are talking about 25-54 year old enjoying there golf because their body stays with them.

Get out there and get some exercise, any at all, just get out there.



As to bigger guys hitting longer, just tell that to Jamie Sadlowski.


Wow - one person - How about Camillo, Charles Howell and Sean OHair. For every skinny bloke on tour I can show you 10 bigger bloke who make it look easier with less wear and tear on the body. I cannot even imagine how to get into Camillo downswing or Sean O'hair's position at the top.

For everyone skinny Long Driver competitor - I can give you 50 big bastards who thump it.

Henno - The gym regime is sensational, Mr Cranky Pants is just winding us up.



6'2" and 83kg.


What i am saying is that a fit person who goes to the gym like Henno, should be able to hit an 8 iron more than 130m easily. A change in technique is required.

[Jono]

Tiger said so. Mike Weir's trainer said so. Adam Scott's trainer said so. Paul Casey's trainer said so. John Daly's trainer doesn't exist.


You're listening to the wrong guys. It's like me listening to Dr Phil for some practice tips. ;)

[Jono]

What i am saying is that a fit person who goes to the gym like Henno, should be able to hit an 8 iron more than 130m easily. A change in technique is required.

OK. I agree with that. 8)

[henno]

I don't like how bodybuilders train certain muscle groups only at a time. eg. biceps and back one day. triceps and chest another day.

What is wrong with that? It is pretty hard to properly exercise all of the muscle groups in one hour every day. And I'm sure as hell not going to do deadlifts every day. They are called DEADlifts for a reason: that'd kill me! I am sure that would surely border on overtraining anyway. Muscles need rest to build and repair (and gain strength as a result) which is why I move on to another muscle group on day 2, day 3, and so on.

I agree if you are refering to idividual muscle isolation. I am generally not interested in exercises that only hit one muscle (Why guys always on the calf-muscle machine at the gym I'll never know). But working out opposing muscle groups to a schedule is the best way to get things done for me. In one week I can get to all of the major muscle groups, as well as the odd cardio hit.


This might be great for creating muscle hypertrophy but this is not how we function in everyday life. Unless your goal is to get bigger muscles, I don't think you should train this way.

My goal is strength, as well as building lean muscle. Well, my ultimate goal is strength and fitness and a lowering of the overall bf %, but it gets far easier to strip fat with the more muscle you have.

[virge666]

You're listening to the wrong guys. It's like me listening to Dr Phil for some practice tips. ;)


LOL !

:lol:

[grandmasterb]

Your all skinny little kents so quit the moaning already!!!

[peter_rs]

For everyone skinny Long Driver competitor - I can give you 50 big bastards who thump it.

That is a big call which you cannot backup.

[Jono]

What is wrong with that? It is pretty hard to properly exercise all of the muscle groups in one hour every day.

What's the definition of "properly exercise"? To failure? Again, that may be great for muscle hypertrophy but not for functional training.

Here's a sample training regime that contrasts with yours.

Monday - strength work (squats, deadlifts, presses) NOT to failure.
Tuesday - speed work (agility ladder, jumping jacks, chains, etc)
Wednesday - interval training (short explosive intervals)
Thursday - kettlebell work
Friday - olympic lifting work (front squats, overhead jerks, high pulls) leading up to c&j and snatch.
Saturday - circuit training
Sunday - rest
(each workout followed by 10 minutes of dynamic stretching)

Your routine is basically weights for strength/hypertrophy and cardio for fat loss. Again, typical "bodybuilder" routine. The above routine is much more functional. Each muscle group is worked out each time but in a different manner. Strength, Power, Speed, Flexibility, Core stability, Mobility ...

[BrisVegas]

That's uphill as well, isn't it? How far to clear the traps from the blue tees?

Yeah it's a little bit uphill. We have black and gold tees, so I assume you mean the blacks? I have no idea about the blacks, as I haven't played a monthly medal since getting my GPS. I'd suspect it's 240+, ie. too bloody far to carry. From the gold tees it's 200-220 depending on which end of the tee box is used. I can 'just' get it over from the golds on a good hit. I love the 17th hole from the golds as it tempts me on BOTH the drive and the second shot to 'have a crack'. I've had almost as many eagles as doubles there, as a consequence. :lol:

[virge666]

That is a big call which you cannot backup.

How many competative long drivers are under 90kg ?

[Jono]

How many competative long drivers are under 90kg ?

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. Just because the guys at LD comps are big, does that mean you'll be longer too if you lift weights and gain 10kg of muscle? My answer is no. Especially if you train "bodybuilder style". :razz:

The LD guys are big but they are also fast, especially with their hands and arms. Of course bigger guys who have longer levers and more fast twitch muscle fibers are at an advantage. However, in the end, you have to be able to recruit those fibers very quickly. The biggest doesn't win. The fastest does.

[peter_rs]

How many are under 5ft...

90kg for a 6ft plus athletes is not big.

Of the Oz LD guys Mark Bylsma is 6ft 5 and about 140kg last time I tallked to him the rest are bean polls.

John Noble, Dayn Nola, Brent Kearney, Ben Dyer, Simon Abbott, Matt McDonald, Stephen Kennedy are all over 6ft and under 90kg at a guess.

As for overseas I don't have details but, when you watch the World Champs most of the guys are bean poles these days. There are few guys in the Jason Zuback model 5ft10 102kg of power.

I guess it is a relative thing. But I would still say the ratio is way out.

[BrisVegas]

The LD guys are big but they are also fast, especially with their hands and arms. Of course bigger guys who have longer levers and more fast twitch muscle fibers are at an advantage. However, in the end, you have to be able to recruit those fibers very quickly. The biggest doesn't win. The fastest does.

the longest guy I can think of springs to mind!

http://www.nathanuebergang.com/profile

6'6" & 90kg streak of duck poo... :lol:

[Jono]

the longest guy I can think of springs to mind!

http://www.nathanuebergang.com/profile

6'6" & 90kg streak of duck poo... :lol:

I can see where he gets his distance.

Favourite Food: Korean BBQ’s… Oh yeah!!

:lol:

[Scottt]

Tiger said so. Mike Weir's trainer said so. Adam Scott's trainer said so. Paul Casey's trainer said so. John Daly's trainer doesn't exist.

:lol::lol: :smt038

I think I just laughed so loud I woke my housemate up

:lol:

Great set-up.

[zigwah]

Anyone seen Once were warriors?

That scene where jake the muss smacks the **** out of that huge ****, and then says something like, he's been lifting too heavy and forgot to work on speed.

Best excercise imo is boxing and running and other bat and ball games or foot and ball games even ten pin bowling.

Why do the pro bodlybuilders seperate body parts and train them on different days? because the muscle needs time to heal and grow bigger, so they dont want to work a particiular muscle group too hard 2 or 3 days in a row or too close together, the body needs too repair itself.

[razaar]

My understanding is that most of the power in a golf swing comes from centrifugal force, generated by muscles that rotate the body through the swing. The centrifugal force is the result of unhinging the wrists through impact. Studies show that 30 pounds of muscle mass are needed to impart the energy to the golf club in that half second from the top to impact; and that doesn’t include the muscles involved in stabilization. There is not that much muscle in the arms and hands, so the bulk of the muscle power must come from the larger muscles in the torso, legs and shoulders.

It’s the technique in imparting that energy that determines the outcome, so it stands to reason that a tighter coil will deliver more rotational speed than a loose coil or one that is swaying. As an example, spin a bicycle wheel, now take the wheel off the bike and install it on an axle which has a smaller diameter than on the bike and give it a spin. Nuff said. Same principle with a golf swing, the tighter the turn the more rotational force will be applied in the through swing. Strength is required for mobility and stability with flexibility being the link between both.

If you are exercising for golf, my advice is to concentrate on exercises that improve balance, strengthen postural muscles (posture means power) and flexibility. Don’t neglect the forearms, wrists , fingers and ankles.:)

[virge666]

If you are exercising for golf, my advice is to concentrate on exercises that improve balance, strengthen postural muscles (posture means power) and flexibility. Don’t neglect the forearms, wrists , fingers and ankles.:)

With you on all that.

Didn;t soem idiot a while back say Triceps were responsible for 80% of the golf swing speed.

Jono will know - I think it was the bloke with Natural Golf...

[Jono]

With you on all that.

Didn;t soem idiot a while back say Triceps were responsible for 80% of the golf swing speed.

Jono will know - I think it was the bloke with Natural Golf...

His name is Jack Kuykendall. He said 85% of the speed comes from right tricep and right forearm. :shock:

Biggest con artist in the field of golf/science. He changes his swing theories like ... like 3oneday changes his driver. ;)

[Jono]

If you are exercising for golf, my advice is to concentrate on exercises that improve balance, strengthen postural muscles (posture means power) and flexibility. Don’t neglect the forearms, wrists , fingers and ankles.:)

I may as well take up yoga then ... :roll:

:lol:

[Moe Norman]

Anyone seen Once were warriors?

That scene where jake the muss smacks the **** out of that huge ****, and then says something like, he's been lifting too heavy and forgot to work on speed.

.
"Too much weights, not enough speed work - silly pruck"

[Scottt]

That last quote is used often, and IMO accurately, by a mate to describe Phil Waugh. I never knew it was from Once Were Warriors.

[u8ergolfer]

Abso f uck ing loutely astounded by how far from topic this has got to from the original post..............

[Moe Norman]

you were talking too much nonsense anyway

[henno]

No thread has ever stayed on topic in the time I have haunted ozgolf.

And I'm not about to let that start now.

[u8ergolfer]

you were talking too much nonsense anyway
Well then don't reply to me in future, clown.......

[Scottt]

Uber, if this type of business shits you, my only suggestion is that Ozgolf ain't the forum for you! :lol:

[Moe Norman]

you started talking most of your nonsense after I replied, Mr Squiggles

[u8ergolfer]

Don't mind the shit or the banter at all.. but on topic would be noice.. what is stopping them creating a new thread if they want to argue over their pecs and tricepts?

[Hux]

What's to stop them? Ozgolf culture demands they do it.
Threads are a free form location for a discussion to start and move through sometimes even returning on topic.

Try selling something!

[adlo]

Abso f uck ing loutely astounded by how far from topic this has got to from the original post..............

Mate, I asked about what people thought the most groundbreaking album was, and I ended up learning what albums Scottt and Henno lost their virginity to :lol:

Its the norm around these here parts

[Scottt]

Just don't try it in one of Grunter's threads. He's more serious about OT posts than he is about his OT at work. :lol:

[Dotty]

I noticed that Marge Simpson and Cheif Wiggum both have blue hair.

Do you think they are cousins?

[henno]

Milhouse is their illegitimate love child.

[adlo]

In theory communism works. In theory....

[mike]

My neighbour finally found his hammer.

[razaar]

Played Bribie GC on the weekend ....twice. Was down to play Pacific Harbour GC on the Saturday but they closed the course due to wet conditions. WTF, given that both clubs are on the same island and the old course was hardly affected by the wet conditions - we were left wondering.

[LarryLong]

I too am horrified by the level of threadjacking that takes place on this site. What does everybody else think?

[henno]

I too am horrified by the level of threadjacking that takes place on this site. What does everybody else think?

This wasn't an actual threadjack, though (apart from the last few sarcastic obvious jacks). It was a conversation, which changed direction.

Conversations are a fluid, dynamic beast. Sure, it got away from the original post, but it was lead there by a thread of discussion.

[Jarro]

Threadjacking is what makes this place :mrgreen:

We luv it !!!!!!

[Dotty]

This thread started by pointing out the obvious to the everyone who plays golf (except a complete novice), then progressed to arguing with those that agreed with it.

In reality, we all stuff up the occasional distance to the pin (otherwise we'd be in Augusta this week).

I didn't read much of the muscle and gym stuff, but it looked interesting enough and informative enough to justify a thread of its own.

[sms316]

I ended up learning what albums Scottt and Henno lost their virginity to :lol:

Please tell me it was a different song, or at the very least, songs played at different times/venues.

[Hux]

Ooowww that sounds nasty Sms are they more than golfing partners?

Now to get back off topic.... playing at Redcliffe today. It shoud be nice and wet. And I just finished work so now sleep and play golf. Shoudl be a recipe for average play...4BBB - feel sorry for my playing partner.

[Webster]

ogilvy will be hard to beat

[Dotty]

My neighbour finally found his hammer.
Mike, is this from Garrison Keilor?

[razaar]

Ooowww that sounds nasty Sms are they more than golfing partners?

Now to get back off topic.... playing at Redcliffe today. It shoud be nice and wet. And I just finished work so now sleep and play golf. Shoudl be a recipe for average play...4BBB - feel sorry for my playing partner.
Redcliffe did well in knocking off Indro at Reddy last Sunday in the pennant round..very impressive.:-s

[Bruce]

Does anyone know what is going on at the corner of Collins and Russell streets this morning?

[markTHEblake]

I too am horrified by the level of threadjacking that takes place on this site. What does everybody else think?

no different to any other forum, news group or even in person conversations.

[adlo]

Please tell me it was a different song, or at the very least, songs played at different times/venues.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I missed this one.

Dunno, ask Scotttt is he went to Rootfest '96.

[Scottt]

I was 13 in 1996... so no. :lol:

[qbnchopper]

I was 13 in 1996... so no. :lol:

A late starter then eh ?;)

[Scottt]

:lol:

[Hux]

Scotttt you are so 90's.

[Scottt]

I am. I was aged 7 when it started, 17 a month after it ended - I am truly a product of the 90s.

[BrisVegas]

Scottt, I never picked you as older than me!? I was 6 thru 16 in the 90's.

[Hux]

I too am a product of the 90's...nearly killed myself on a motorcycle in 1990 and decided to give them away. If I had kept riding I wouldn't have made into the next decade.

[henno]

10 through 20 here. I always assumed I was the young upstart in this place.

I suppose you are only as young as the girl you feel. ;-)

[Scottt]

Scottt, I never picked you as older than me!? I was 6 thru 16 in the 90's.

I thought you were 35 or so?

[Scottt]

How old's your missus Henno? Mine's 23 (she was 19 when we got together).

[henno]

How old's your missus Henno? Mine's 23 (she was 19 when we got together).

26 ...

... old hag!



;)

[Scottt]

Is BrisVegas seriously 25?

[senecio]

Is BrisVegas seriously 25?

Not a chance.

[Iain]

26 ...

... old hag!



;)


10 through 20 here. I always assumed I was the young upstart in this place.

I suppose you are only as young as the girl you feel. ;-)

Me too. On both counts!!!

[henno]

Me too. On both counts!!!

... and I almost joined Pacific today!

I'm starting to think you might be the Shelbyville to my Springfield.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5995/115ckw.jpg

[Moe Norman]

I tink Vegas has the 80's and 90's mixed up

[PeteyD]

I think Vegas is just mixed up.

[Iain]

He's just had a hard life!!

[BrisVegas]

i look pretty crap for 25.

[PeteyD]

Kids age you real quick!

[adlo]

10 through 20 here. I always assumed I was the young upstart in this place.

I suppose you are only as young as the girl you feel. ;-)
Best vintage Henno, same here ;)

[markTHEblake]

the 90's were a massive decade for me, i started it drunk, deliriously single and foolish, and finished it sober, married with children and foolish.

Maturity is overrated.

[mikezone13]

14 through 24... I feel old and dirty!

[Courty]

15 to 25... all over in the blink of an eye.

[Hux]

God I feel old around this discussion...26 to 36.

And can you young folk please layoff with the "only old as the woman you feel bit" please - mine 3 years older than me.

[Grunt]

19 - 29 here, was a pretty good time in most part. Rough start and settling end.

[connico]

How many competative long drivers are under 90kg ?

They have to be big so there arms and hands don't cause them to lift off... Some of those guys can sure swing a bat :P

Regardless its good to see you and jono playing nice... bahaha

[Moe Norman]

9-19 - best years of my life the 90's and started off brilliantly witha Pies Premiership and finished nicely with Australian Cricket and Rugby World Cup victories!

[LarryLong]

15-25. Discovered girls and alcohol, and found out that I couldn't handle either of them very well. Started out young and carefree, ended up married and balding.

[Hux]

15-25. Discovered girls and alcohol, and found out that I couldn't handle either of them very well. Started out young and carefree, ended up married and balding.

Me too but it was probably a lot earlier in the 90's for both events :mrgreen: