who was Australia's worst post war cricket Captain?

[u8ergolfer]

Any nominees.. Bill Lawry, Kim (I cry for you) Hughes?

[WBennett]

As a captain, Ricky Ponting.

As a player, Ray Bright - one ODI for one loss.

[PeteyD]

Ponting. Useless.

[Webster]

As a captain, Ricky Ponting.



Retard.



Try Graham Yallop or Kim Hughes.

[PeteyD]

Too far before my time. I vaguely remember kim hughes crying.

[u8ergolfer]

Forgot Yallop, but he got thrown a fractured team in troubled times..

[Tomo]

Kim Hughes

[Webster]

Forgot Yallop, but he got thrown a fractured team in troubled times..

And got flogged. Whats your point?

[u8ergolfer]

what does "what's your point" mean?

[Sydney Hacker]

I am too young (just) to remember much of Yallop, but guys who I have a lot of respect for their cricketing knowledge always bring him up.

One of the nicest things I have heard said about him, was he was retard completely out of his depth. The worst can't be repeated here !

[raidrboy]

I will throw in Ian Craig, he was like a lamb thrown to the slaughter just to young to control players like Harvey, Benaud etc.

[u8ergolfer]

Ian Craig, but did have some talent to mould..was in many respects a bit like Border wasn't he?

Seemed to have the talent to work with.. wonder what he would have done with Warne or Merv...

[henno]

Michael Clarke.

[markTHEblake]

You cant really judge a Captain like that. Typically they were chosen because they were a combination of the best cricketer and leader at the time, if they are the worst, then thats a reflection on the team also.

If you look at who are best captains were, consider again the team they had under them. Thats like saying Viv Richards was a great captain.

[3oneday]

Michael Clarke.

damn, took mine :lol:

Greg Chappell. Disgraced us when he made his brother bowl that ball.

[u8ergolfer]

You cant really judge a Captain like that. Typically they were chosen because they were a combination of the best cricketer and leader at the time, if they are the worst, then thats a reflection on the team also.

.

To paraphrase Burley Griffin..Its a bit like how camels came about.. They are really horses designed by committees.. similar to the selection of the Aust. Cricket captain in lean times..

As a reflection of that trend then..I suppose it makes 'em the best of the worst..

Craig had some to work with, So too Lawry, What about the Chappell led side to the World Cup in '75, post the 5-1 result against WI.

Yallop I suppose is the man for me.. Dead set out of his league and charged with the most vaunted position in Australian Sport at the time..:smt030

[u8ergolfer]

damn, took mine :lol:

Greg Chappell. Disgraced us when he made his brother bowl that ball.

As an act WAY DOWN THERE..

BTW anyone still got a set of those cheap AD 21's...


just curious

[LarryLong]

Steve Waugh.

Had the most talented team in the world by a mile and the worst opposition in history and still felt the need to play dirty.

[Scottt]

How so, Larry?

[LarryLong]

I know I'm being set up for a bit of disdainful abuse here, but I always thought Waugh took the whole mental disintegration/sledging/on-field abuse thing to a whole new level when he really didn't need to.

Just a different interpretation of 'worst' and maybe just a little bit of trolling into the bargain. :twisted:

[markTHEblake]

Had the most talented team in the world by a mile and the worst opposition in history and still felt the need to play dirty.

Spot on there.

[macjackass]

I know I'm being set up for a bit of disdainful abuse here, but I always thought Waugh took the whole mental disintegration/sledging/on-field abuse thing to a whole new level when he really didn't need to.

Just a different interpretation of 'worst' and maybe just a little bit of trolling into the bargain. :twisted:

Couldn't agree with you more. Complete tool (Waugh that is, not you;))

[Scottt]

Steve Waugh gets a bad wrap. A number of former test players from a number of countries have said the sledging by Steve Waugh's side was no worse than many Aussie sides that came before it. The main difference was that Tugga made no attempt to cover it up, he was happy to admit that went on.

Read about the Ian and Greg Chappell era and the order by Allan Border re: the team's behaviour towards England before the 1989 Ashes Series. It has been rampant for decades, but it wasn't talked about.

Macjack, for someone who hates newspaper journalists you appear to let them do more of your thinking for you than is wise. ;)

[Andrew]

Steve Waugh gets a bad wrap.
Agreed. I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but I'll say this. Steve was not only an excellent captain, but nothing happened (sledge wise) in his side that didn't happen in many other teams. Yes, even other countries.

On top of that he is a truly nice & genuine person who has not let fame change him.

[Scottt]

On top of that he is a truly nice & genuine person who has not let fame change him.

:smt038 I 100% agree.

[adlo]

On top of that he is a truly nice & genuine person who has not let fame change him.
I have heard that from quite a few sources of people who know him or have met him. Good on him.

[Sydney Hacker]

Agreed. I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but I'll say this. Steve was not only an excellent captain, but nothing happened (sledge wise) in his side that didn't happen in many other teams. Yes, even other countries.

On top of that he is a truly nice & genuine person who has not let fame change him.

I couldn't agree more, Steve's only problem was when asked about sledging he didn't lie about it.

Every other country in the world before he was captain, while he was captain and after he was captain sledged just as much if not more then the aussies.

[3oneday]

I know I'm being set up for a bit of disdainful abuse here, but I always thought Waugh took the whole mental disintegration/sledging/on-field abuse thing to a whole new level when he really didn't need to.
it's called an opinion, and as long as it is yours then Scotttttttt will allow it...

Be careful though, it doesn't happen often ;)

In the defence of Waugh, I get the impression he had several big heads to control, something that Ponting couldn't do. I also loved watching Waugh bat, he was such a terrier.

If I was being fair dinkum in my own opinions, Greg Chappell did one dumb thing but Kim Hughes was a weakling !

Oh, and Allan Border was by far the best post war, in my opinion ;)

[Scottt]

Worth a read for Hughes critics (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25147843-5003413,00.html)


A FEW weeks ago, when the story of the set-to between Michael Clarke and Simon Katich was splashed on back pages around the country, it raised something of a ruckus.

Some believed it was shocking, a rare example of dissension within a top sporting outfit; others couldn't understand the fuss.

Former Broncos winger Michael Hancock commented: "So what? It happens all the time. Alfie Langer and Kevvie Walters used to annoy me the way they used to muck around, and sometimes I wanted to kill them, but it blew over. It's nothing new."

A book that hit the shelves this week supports Hancock's view. There is nothing new about players in sporting teams getting offside with each other - it has been going onfor years.

Except the feud the book explores wasn't just a few blokes mucking around, and it didn't just blow over.

It tore the Test team apart and all but destroyed one of the most talented cricketers this country has produced.

The book is Golden Boy, an unauthorised biography of former Australian captain Kim Hughes by journalist Christian Ryan, and the revelations it makes about the relationship between Hughes and two of Australia's most revered cricketers, Dennis Lillee and Rod Marsh, are astonishing.

Lillee and Marsh passed up the chance to give their sides of the story, but Ryan has spoken to players and officials who had front-row seats to the goings-on in the 1970s and '80s and it makes compelling and, at times, sickening reading.

It was a time when young cricketers were expected to earn their stripes. There were no welcome mats put out, whether at grade, state or national level. More an approach along the lines of "throw him in the deep end and see if he swims", but the picture Ryan paints goes far beyond that. Even after Hughes had been appointed Australian captain the treatment he received from his fellow West Australians vacillated somewhere between persecution and mutiny.

According to Ryan the problem came to a head when Hughes was chosen to succeed Greg Chappell ahead of his vice-captain Marsh.

Marsh was hurt, and his mate Lillee maintained the rage on his behalf.

In the days before batting helmets, Lillee made it his business to bowl to Hughes whenever he was in the nets. And he bowled as if it was the first over of an Ashes series.

Teammates recall the net sessions:

Murray Bennett: "I couldn't believe it. The two blokes were on the same side and Lillee seemed to be taking some cheap shots at him.

"Every ball was short. I thought 'there's something missing here'. I guess I was a bit disgusted."

Geoff Lawson: "Lillee nearly broke Kim's arm. Just ran in and bowled lightning to him in the nets andKim had to go off for an X-ray, as I recall. Got him on the forearmthe day before the Ashes started. Graeme Wood (recalling the day before a Test against Pakistan at the Gabba): "Oh, you know, again it was on. I remember Kim getting hit, right near the elbow, sort of, the forearm.

"Had to get ice on it and there was doubt whether he would play. Not the great morale-booster you need before a Test."

In one passage, former Australian vice-captain Craig Sergeant recalls a net session during which Lillee let fly a bouncer at Hughes, followed through, retrieved the ball and looked remorseful.

"Sorry."

"Oh, that's OK."

"Sorry I didn't f - - - in' hit ya."

According to the book, while Marsh did not have the armoury to intimidate Hughes in the nets, he made his feelings known with equal lack of subtlety on the field.

Ryan writes that Test newcomer Michael Whitney saw Hughes make a field change and Marsh shake his head for several seconds before letting out a big sigh. Once the field was set, Marsh would sometimes whistle and move the player back 5m. Now that's completely usurping the captain's authority.

When Australian coach Peter Philpott approached Marsh on the 1981 Ashes tour and said, "Rodney, we've got to try to help him", the answer was, "He's got the job. He's a big boy. Let him stew in it."

Philpott told Ryan: "It wasn't a pleasant relationship between Kim and the other two. They thought he was a soft boy. They were two hard men and they didn't have much respect for him. They threw him to the wolves."

The most enduring images of Hughes's career are his sensational innings in the Centenary Test at Lord's in 1980, and crying his eyes out when resigning the captaincy in Brisbane, four years later. This book fills in the in-betweens.

It suggests that, in comparison to the Kim Hughes era, the current Australian Test team over the past few months has been a sanctuary of friendship, love and understanding.

Then again, the same could be said of HMS Bounty.

[PeteyD]

The team got a bad repuatation under Waugh. I think he had great strength and leadership as a captain. He had to to control some of his players. Border was similar, but he started with crap and forged a solid team.

By definition the underarm bowl was totally legal at the time, and although not sporting was certainly not wrong. Apparently the batsaman could have flicked the ball up with his foot and then belted it (I believe England used to practice this).

[3oneday]

Worth a read for Hughes critics (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25147843-5003413,00.html)it was in the paper Scottt, unfounded tripe.




:lol:

[macjackass]

Steve Waugh gets a bad wrap. A number of former test players from a number of countries have said the sledging by Steve Waugh's side was no worse than many Aussie sides that came before it. The main difference was that Tugga made no attempt to cover it up, he was happy to admit that went on.

Read about the Ian and Greg Chappell era and the order by Allan Border re: the team's behaviour towards England before the 1989 Ashes Series. It has been rampant for decades, but it wasn't talked about.

Macjack, for someone who hates newspaper journalists you appear to let them do more of your thinking for you than is wise. ;)

I don't hate all journo's, just the clueless ones that right for news ltd. I've met Steve Waugh a couple of times and he seemed like an arrogant prick. As for thoughts, maybe you should come up with your own rather than trying to sound cool all the time. ;)

[markTHEblake]

Apparently the batsaman could have flicked the ball up with his foot and then belted it (I believe England used to practice this).

Doug Walters hit a 6 with his 3rd attempt doing exactly that at training a couple of days after the event.

[sms316]

I know I'm being set up for a bit of disdainful abuse here, but I always thought Waugh took the whole mental disintegration/sledging/on-field abuse thing to a whole new level when he really didn't need to.

Just a different interpretation of 'worst' and maybe just a little bit of trolling into the bargain. :twisted:
I love the whole "mental disinigration" thing. In fact I reckon it should not only be encouraged, it should also extend to other sports.

Survival of the fittest.

[kpac]

On top of that he is a truly nice & genuine person.

Tell his wife that.

[Webster]

Kim Hughes was a sook. And the one time i met Steve Waugh he came across as a real tossbag, although there are plenty who reckon he is a good bloke.

[zigwah]

1 Kim Hughes
2 Greg Chappel
3 Ricky Ponting

[Webster]

I've met you jack..you are a tossbag !

Yeah, but I dont pretend to be anything else, dickhead...

[Webster]

Good one champ !

wanker...

[dc68]

"

[sms316]

"
Well said.

[PeteyD]

=;

[3oneday]

I've met you jack..you are a tossbag !


Yeah, but I dont pretend to be anything else, dickhead...


Good one champ !


wanker...

you roosters feeling left out or somethin ???

[dc68]

Well said.


thanks

[Bruce]

Can we take a mild tangent?

Haddin is statistically the worst post war keeper (http://fddp.theage.com.au/news/sport/haddin-may-be-no-1-by-and-by/2009/03/24/1237656931685.html)

More byes than pretty much everybody who was billed as a 'keeper.

[3oneday]

Not surprising.

[Scottt]

I don't hate all journo's, just the clueless ones that right for news ltd. I've met Steve Waugh a couple of times and he seemed like an arrogant prick. As for thoughts, maybe you should come up with your own rather than trying to sound cool all the time. ;)

:smt022

[Andrew]

I've met Steve Waugh a couple of times and he seemed like an arrogant prick.

You are entitled to your opinion & I would probably be considered bias, but I have known Steve since we were 15 & have remained friends with him ever since. At know time have I seen him act like an arrogant prick in private or in public.

[razaar]

My vote would have to go to Graham Yallop, a great batsman but totally out of his depth as an Australian Captain. Captains don't pick themselves but end up with the lumps....selectors always seem to escape under the radar.:mad:

[Moe Norman]

Tell his wife that.
what is this rubbish?

[Scottt]

I was wondering the same thing, Moe, but didn't want to dignify it.

[markTHEblake]

Its an interesting observation about Yallop. So who should have been captain instead of him? Most of the players in his team had debuted in Tests only about a year before, so there really was no experience to draw from. Gary Cosier maybe?

[Moe Norman]

I was wondering the same thing, Moe, but didn't want to dignify it.
must have him confused with AB

[razaar]

Its an interesting observation about Yallop. So who should have been captain instead of him? Most of the players in his team had debuted in Tests only about a year before, so there really was no experience to draw from. Gary Cosier maybe?
Didn't Yallop replace Bob Simpson?

[markTHEblake]

OTOH yes., Simpson only captained Australian in two series, against India and then the West Indies, then he retired again.

[u8ergolfer]

Simmo.. GREAT Batsman, GENTLEMAN, and darn good at golfing the ball as well.. I think he played of 2 or 3 at Concord...

[Scottt]

"Golfing the ball" - I am seeing this term more and more lately. Has to be the worst golf term ever. Where the f**k did it come from? My guess is America...

[Moe Norman]

nah, it comes from old farts and has been around forever

[Scottt]

Truly? There you go... every day's a school day!

[u8ergolfer]

Where did it come from? The Scots actually.You used to golf your ball upon the links..the term golf is in this sense becomes the Verb.. The ball is the noun.

[u8ergolfer]

Some other antiquities with the language..You were always upon the links..you were golfing, not playing golf..

[Scottt]

I have generally had an issue with golf as a verb (ie. "I've golfed with him"). I'm surprised it came from the Scots.

Though I also thought until last year that suicide was a noun that had been bastardised into a verb until a language expert at Sydney Uni told me in fact it was initially a verb that went the other way.

[u8ergolfer]

Golf and Suicide.. who would have ever thought about managing to put the two together in one post....

[henno]

Though I also thought until last year that suicide was a noun that had been bastardised into a verb until a language expert at Sydney Uni told me in fact it was initially a verb that went the other way.

I am not ashamed to admit that it wasn't until after I had completed my journo degree that I too became aware of this. Also from a university word-smith.

I guess the verb is so rarely used, and the noun is so common, that's it's a logical (albeit incorrect) assumption to make. :-s

[mike]

Harsh calls on Yallop.

He was thrown in the deep end and given an inexperienced 3rd string aussie side with his main strike bowler a lazy, pig headed, injury prone wanker.

[WBennett]

Retard.

Try Graham Yallop or Kim Hughes.

Since Ponting became Captain, he missed various games and was replaced by other members of the team for a game or two. Each time Warnie, Gilchrist and even Pup showed more initiatiave and confidence in their decision making process than Punter ever has.

He's just a dumb greyhound owner from Launnie who can bat, not a tactician or one able to think outside the square.

Yallop was also before my time, but he sure didn't have the squad that Ponting had. Yallop proved you can't polish a turd

[Bungeye]

my vote for Ponting. If another team gets on top he seems to have no ideas to try to attempt to 'make' something happen. Can't fault him with a bat, but as a captain, he's a show pony. Looks good when it going well, clueless when it isn't.

[Tongueboy]

Harsh calls on Yallop.

He was thrown in the deep end and given an inexperienced 3rd string aussie side with his main strike bowler a lazy, pig headed, injury prown wanker.

refresh my memory....so long ago and a dark time in Australian cricket!

[Tongueboy]

also my vote has to go to Kim Hughes and Ponting just doesn't do it for me. never has.

[mike]

refresh my memory....so long ago and a dark time in Australian cricket!Rodney Hogg.



Re: Kim Hughes. If my memory serves me correctly, and it often does, Kim Hughes was the captain when the ACB and WSC rejoined forces. He was given the captaincy as a reward for not defecting and was shown no support by the other senior players at the time (Chappell, Marshy etc)


Correct me if I'm wrong, although I rarely am.

[Scottt]

Wikipedia's great, huh :lol:

[mike]

Huh?

[BrisWesty]

Simmo.. GREAT Batsman, GENTLEMAN, and darn good at golfing the ball as well.. I think he played of 2 or 3 at Concord...

And a hard nut to boot. I reckon Australia's climb back up the rankings had a lot to do with him as coach.

Have to agree about Yallop being given a poisoned chalice as captain. If his autobiography can be believed, he got given the short straw by Ian Chappell when he replaced McCosker in the Australian team against the Windies, then to face the Poms as captain when you've lost probably the top 20 players to WSC. Tough going.

Perhaps he was seen as the establishment, just like Kim Hughes, by the WSC guys when they reunited. For some reason he seemed to be on the outer.

[markTHEblake]

Re: Kim Hughes. If my memory serves me correctly, and it often does, Kim Hughes was the captain when the ACB and WSC rejoined forces. He was given the captaincy as a reward for not defecting and was shown no support by the other senior players at the time (Chappell, Marshy etc)

OTOH the captains of Australia beginning with the WSC exodus, went like this, Simpson, Yallop, Hughes, G.Chappell, Hughes again, Border.

Greg Chappell was captain for several years upon immediate return from WSC, not Hughes, so he didnt get any reward.

It was Marsh and Lillee that backstabbed Hughes, not Chappell.

[BrisWesty]

Hughes got to be captain for some of the tours that Greg Chappell didn't want to go on.

[mike]

OTOH the captains of Australia beginning with the WSC exodus, went like this, Simpson, Yallop, Hughes, G.Chappell, Hughes again, Border.

Greg Chappell was captain for several years upon immediate return from WSC, not Hughes, so he didnt get any reward.

It was Marsh and Lillee that backstabbed Hughes, not Chappell.

Yeah I knew it was something like that.

Chappell did play under Hughes didn't he?

[mike]

...and Kim Hughes, the poor bastard, was probably THE most entertaining batsman we've ever had.
When he was on song he was incredible.