Heath Ledger...Sympathy Oscar ?

[damoocow]

Firstly I must confess to never seeing any Batman movie [except for the original 1966 version] and although viewing plenty of excerpts of other Batman remakes I guess the whole franchise just seemed a bit gay and dull to me.............as for Ledger have only see him on screen in Knight's Tale in which his performance was good and Two Hands in which he was terrible......so having seen only what the studio would release [in advertising]of his portrayal of the Joker in the current movie am I right in thinking that his portrayal was oscar worthy only because he is dead ?

[adlo]

Best performance in a movie for me since Philip Seymour Hoffman in Capote.

Not a big Batman fan, but the past 2 movies have been excellent. Well worth a look.

So to answer your question, a resounding NO.

[zigwah]

yeah mate he was creepy, and played it to the hilt great movie great part played by Heath

[Johnny Canuck]

i was very skeptical, but after seeing the movie, he more than deserved it. you would never know it was him.

[mike]

Movie was shit, he was ok. Not Oscar-worthy, just ok.

[Moe Norman]

given their reluctance throughout history to award posthumous oscars, I'd say he was more than worthy.

If anything, his death counted against him but he was so good he won anyway.

bit of a stupid thread anyway Damo, you've seen him in 2 movies!?

He was fantastic in Monster's Ball, Candy, Brokeback Mountain and many more.

[Scottt]

What Moe said. If sympathy Oscars were handed out, there would be more than two statuettes ever handed out posthumously (both Aussies, mind you).

[PeteyD]

I beleive the 2 latest Batman movies are totally different again (compared to the ones form the 90s). A lot darker, much like the revamp of the comic itself.

[goughy]

Two Hands, one of his first movies I believe (even before 10 things I hate about you) and aussie made. I'm surprised you liked him a Nights Tale (which I haven't seen); would have thought it was the type of thing you hated.

If you hadn't known HL was the joker you would never have picked it was him in a million years, but you would have thought that who ever it was was gonna win an oscar. Just a chilling purely evil character, that no doubt caused him the inner trouble that led to his death.

I suggest you see the movie, if only so you can answer the question you ask yourself!

[Jarro]

He was great in the Batman movie ... like everyone has said, a really dark character

[Courty]

Meh, the movie was average. He was ok. It was a sympathy thing.

[sms316]

Does anybody else get the impression that Ledger's family are enjoying the spotlight?

[henno]

I know it's weird, but somehow I can't stop thinking that winning the oscar actually taints his acting achievements somehow. I am no bandwagon jumper (MT460 aside) but I honestly do think was a great actor, yet to reach his peak. However, this will all be overshadowed by the "was he or wasn't he" talk about his posthumous sympathy-oscar.

If he hadn't won, he would have been remembered for his individual acting performances, not the shiney gold statue gathering dust in a cupboard somewhere.

[Moe Norman]

but on your logic that it was a sympathy oscar, why have there been so few posthumous oscars?

Especially when there have been some serious favourites over the years hat didn't win, despite being dead and thus more likely for your mythical sympathy oscar.

There was oscar buzz before he died, there were no standout competitors and he was brilliant in the part - it was a well deserved win.

[henno]

but on your logic that it was a sympathy oscar?

That's not what I said at all. All I said that is I can't help thinking that the constant chatter about it possibly being a sympathy oscar might take away from what were otherwise great individual performances.

[3oneday]

He's not American, why would they give him sympathy ?

[peter_rs]

The best batman bad guy of all time. And one of the creepiest roles in general. It was well worth it.

[Johnny Canuck]

Does anybody else get the impression that Ledger's family are enjoying the spotlight?

As a parent, I say no. I think it is helping them deal with the tragic loss of their son.


but on your logic that it was a sympathy oscar, why have there been so few posthumous oscars?

Especially when there have been some serious favourites over the years hat didn't win, despite being dead and thus more likely for your mythical sympathy oscar.

There was oscar buzz before he died, there were no standout competitors and he was brilliant in the part - it was a well deserved win.

Exactly. Ledger wasn't even that big of a name in the US. There have been a lot bigger actors that have passed that would have been more liekly to recevie a sympathy oscar.

The movie was good, not great, but Ledger was simply fantastic in the role. He changed people's views on a character that has been around for 68 years, without having anyone criticize the performance. Normally if someone were to do this and re-invent a character, they would get torn to shreads.

[Fishman Dan]

Firstly I must confess to never seeing any Batman movie [except for the original 1966 version] and although viewing plenty of excerpts of other Batman remakes I guess the whole franchise just seemed a bit gay and dull to me.............as for Ledger have only see him on screen in Knight's Tale in which his performance was good and Two Hands in which he was terrible......so having seen only what the studio would release [in advertising]of his portrayal of the Joker in the current movie am I right in thinking that his portrayal was oscar worthy only because he is dead ?

Not at all. Ledger was brilliant in this role. The movie is dark and gruesome, and you really grow to loathe The Joker, largely because Heath commanded respect in this performance.

It was a laydown misere that he got the Oscar, he was brilliant.

[adlo]

Does anybody else get the impression that Ledger's family are enjoying the spotlight?
No.

I have had the chance to meet his father Kim a few times. He is a successul business man over here and he has no desire to be in the spotlight despite his money and (his then) famous son.

[goughy]

Who else would agree that if you didn't know who played the role of the Joker you would never in a million years have picked Ledger as being him? Even knowing it was him I literally can't pick him inside that character at all! That's something you don't see much these days. Most actors seem to have something of themselves in their role.

[Fishman Dan]

Who else would agree that if you didn't know who played the role of the Joker you would never in a million years have picked Ledger as being him? Even knowing it was him I literally can't pick him inside that character at all! That's something you don't see much these days. Most actors seem to have something of themselves in their role.

I'll admit to not knowing, and being totally shocked when I learned that it was him.

[poidda]

I would never have picked John Hurt being the elephant Man either. ;)

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t289/Madhouse82/ElephantMan.jpg

[Dotty]

Why wasn't the Exterminator nominated? :razz:

[goughy]

I'll admit to not knowing, and being totally shocked when I learned that it was him.

I have to ask how in the world you didn't know it was him before seeing it? Helen Keller would have known it!!

[Fishman Dan]

He was wearing make-up!!!

[shazza_rs]

I'm with goughy. If i didn't know that Heath Ledger was playing the joker then i wouldn't of picked him as the actor.

[AndyP]

What Moe said. If sympathy Oscars were handed out, there would be more than two statuettes ever handed out posthumously (both Aussies, mind you).

but on your logic that it was a sympathy oscar, why have there been so few posthumous oscars?

Especially when there have been some serious favourites over the years hat didn't win, despite being dead and thus more likely for your mythical sympathy oscar.

Name names please.
Give me a big long list of people who would get close to being nominated for a performance and die before the Oscars came around.


The movie was good, not great, but Ledger was simply fantastic in the role. He changed people's views on a character that has been around for 68 years, without having anyone criticize the performance. Normally if someone were to do this and re-invent a character, they would get torn to shreads.
How much of that is due to the director/writers though?
I don't know where the line is for what the actor brings to the role and what he is directed/written to do.

FWIW I loved the movie, and thought Ledger's Joker was one of the best villians I've ever seen in a movie (while maintaining some realism).

[rodders]

Watched Dark Knight a few weeks ago purely to see if all the usual crap talk of winning an Oscar was on the cards.

Think Batman movies generally shite.

Was really impressed with Ledger - acting was great.

Instead of sympathy vote - who else deserved it more?

[goughy]

Spot on rodders! There are plenty of cases of the less deserving actor receiving the oscar (Denzel in Training Day and Halley in Monsters Ball come to mind (and I'm not racist - Sidney Poitey was a most deserving liftime winner that year).

[LarryLong]

Must've been a lean year if somebody won an oscar for a performance in a Batman movie. :razz:

Which begs the question: what's the worst movie ever to produce an oscar for an actor/actress?

[henno]

Must've been a lean year if somebody won an oscar for a performance in a Batman movie. :razz:

Which begs the question: what's the worst movie ever to produce an oscar for an actor/actress?

Hmm... Gladiator, Driving Miss Daisy, Titanic, Dances With Wolves, Million Dollar Baby.

These all won Best Picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Picture), sadly.

[Fishman Dan]

I have to ask how in the world you didn't know it was him before seeing it? Helen Keller would have known it!!

Actually I just re-read the wording of your question..

I genuinely don't follow anything to do with Hollywood, and I was crazy-busy during September/October/November. I bought Batman Begins Blu-Ray special edition, and there was a comic book-style version of the first scenes of The Dark Knight.

I only knew that The Dark Knight had been released when I climbed onto an Air NZ flight to Auckland, but the flight was barely long enough to watch any movie. We had under-seat fold-out tellies because my colleague is 6'9" and we had the row behind the stewardess area - so we didn't get to watch any movies until the flight had well and truly begun.

On the return home I travelled alone, and I could start watching as soon as I took my seat. It finished about 20 minutes before landing in Sydney. I don't think I watched the credits (opting instead for something like Bro Town ;)) - so still had no idea it was Heath after watching it!!

[Flowergirl]

Does anybody else get the impression that Ledger's family are enjoying the spotlight?

Yea I thought that too. I looked at them standing there - with humility and dignity and thought - gee I bet they are glad Heath is dead so we are standing here and not him.:shock:

SMS - do you try to be a dickhead or does it just come naturally.:smt093:smt093:smt093:smt093:smt093:smt0 93

[damoocow]

given their reluctance throughout history to award posthumous oscars, I'd say he was more than worthy.

If anything, his death counted against him but he was so good he won anyway.

bit of a stupid thread anyway Damo, you've seen him in 2 movies!?

He was fantastic in Monster's Ball, Candy, Brokeback Mountain and many more.

Not really stupid I would think.......more after opinion than anything - not likely to see the movie even at dollar day prices at the local video shop........only thought about starting the thread after recalling Kerry O'Keefe on ABC radio when asked about Ledger's performance as 'The Joker' replied , 'Villains are the easiest roles to play'....I don't really give a rats arse if the goss is good or bad BUT O'Keefe does have a point and his comment is very accurate.

[Moe Norman]

Name names please.
Give me a big long list of people who would get close to being nominated for a performance and die before the Oscars came around.
How long does it need to be?

James Dean and Spencer Tracy were pretty notable actors with Oscar buzz surrounding them at the time of their deaths, neither went on to win one.

James Dean was actually nominated pposthumously in consecutive years, because one movie took 13 months to get released after he died. He was only in 3 movies, so not a bad strike rate!

Spencer Tracy got nominated for 'guess who's coming to dinner' and Sidney Poitier won best actor for the same movie, sympathy did nothing for Tracy.

There have only been 6 posthumous acting nominations anyway, most of them well deserved. Strangely, Finch the aussie that did win it, was reportedly the biggest surprise - beating out De Niro in Taxi Driver, while Ledgers win was widely expected due to this outstanding performance and lack of competition.

[goughy]

Must've been a lean year if somebody won an oscar for a performance in a Batman movie. :razz:

Which begs the question: what's the worst movie ever to produce an oscar for an actor/actress?

Monsters Ball! Halley was ok in it, not even close to worthy of an oscar (unless 'getting busy' counts towards an oscar) and the movie was just awful.

[adlo]

In the last few years I would say Denzel getting the oscar for Training Day.

That was a rubbish movie, and his performance was average.

[AndyP]

How long does it need to be?Larger to be able to say there have been so few posthumous Oscars or that there should have been more. There just hasn't been that many dead people in the running in the first place.

[Scottt]

Not really stupid I would think.......more after opinion than anything - not likely to see the movie even at dollar day prices at the local video shop........only thought about starting the thread after recalling Kerry O'Keefe on ABC radio when asked about Ledger's performance as 'The Joker' replied , 'Villains are the easiest roles to play'....I don't really give a rats arse if the goss is good or bad BUT O'Keefe does have a point and his comment is very accurate.

Kerry O'Keeffe the cricketer?

His opinion is worthwhile because? Does he have some secret film expert side I don't know about?

[Johnny Canuck]

Villains are the easiest role to play? I guess we should be celebrating Bale's flawless portrayal of Batman. It was a very complex role. The Joker's was nothing compared to that.

[adlo]

JC, never underestimate the power of the Bruce Wayne/Batman or Clark Kent/Superman phenomenon. It takes amazing acting. No one ever knows their true identity!!

[Moe Norman]

Larger to be able to say there have been so few posthumous Oscars or that there should have been more. There just hasn't been that many dead people in the running in the first place.
Enough to say they don't just give them out for sympathy, especilly when you throw James Dean into the mix, who was also young etc etc.

He had 2 nominations and they didn't give him a 'sympathy oscar'

Maybe Heath was just the best getting around? (Should have won for Brokeback anyway)

[Johnny Canuck]

It would have been hard talking like Bale did for that entire movie. He deserves an Oscar for that.

[adlo]

True, imagine the amount of throat lozengers they must have had on standby!

Seriously though, thommo is spot on. If James Dean didn't get a sympathy vote, why would Ledger?

Considering he played a role that had already been played by Jack Nicholson, and put him to shame, he deserved that oscar.

[Johnny Canuck]

Don't forget Cesar Romero!

[AndyP]

Arnie should have got one for his chilling portrayal of Mr Freeze.

[sms316]

Yea I thought that too. I looked at them standing there - with humility and dignity and thought - gee I bet they are glad Heath is dead so we are standing here and not him.:shock:
That was not my point and to say so is just plain stupid. If I was ever in their position (and I hope like hell I never am), I just couldn't see myself wanting to leave the house - let alone going to award ceremonies and conducting press conferences. But hey, each to their own.



SMS - do you try to be a dickhead or does it just come naturally.:smt093:smt093:smt093:smt093:smt093:smt0 93
I took lessons. But thanks for the thoughtfull, and insightfull post.:smt022

The way people have carried on emotionally about Heath Ledger and even things like the Victorian bushfires would have you believe that they actually personally knew the people involved. I really admire Tiger Woods as the greatest sportsman of our generation, but if he was hit by a bus today I wouldn't have any trouble sleeping tonight.

I just don't get it.:smt102

[Johnny Canuck]

That was not my point and to say so is just plain stupid. If I was ever in their position (and I hope like hell I never am), I just couldn't see myself wanting to leave the house - let alone going to award ceremonies and conducting press conferences. But hey, each to their own.


The way people have carried on emotionally about Heath Ledger and even things like the Victorian bushfires would have you believe that they actually personally knew the people involved. I really admire Tiger Woods as the greatest sportsman of our generation, but if he was hit by a bus today I wouldn't have any trouble sleeping tonight.

I just don't get it.:smt102

Just curious SMS, do you have kids?

[sms316]

Yes (1). What does that have to do with anything?

[Johnny Canuck]

Just in relation to the comment about not wanting to leave the house.

Their son has been dead for over a year. How long should they wallow inside for? The award is a way to celebrate his life and his accomplishments, something any proud parent would have done.

A mate of mine passed away and was granted his university diploma posthumously by the university. It was accepted on stage by his parents and his brother. It brought a ton of happiness to the family and helped them deal with what had happened. That is a lot better therapy than not leaving the house as you suggested you would do in this situation.

The scenarios are exactly the same, just on a different scale due to the nature of Heath's career.

I just asked if you had kids because I didn't think that a parent would even suggest that a family is loving the spotlight at the expense of their son's death.

I do agreee with what you say about people carrying on emotionally about his death and I would be the exact same if the Tiger Wood's scenario happened. To suggest is about the bushfires is a little harsh.

[sms316]

I just asked if you had kids because I didn't think that a parent would even suggest that a family is loving the spotlight at the expense of their son's death.


That is not what I said (see below). Of course they would prefer to have their son still alive.


Does anybody else get the impression that Ledger's family are enjoying the spotlight?

[Iain]

That is not what I said (see below). Of course they would prefer to have their son still alive.

You might not of said it exactly, but the parents wouldn't be in the spotlight if Heath was still alive. So it's understandable how one could come to that conclusion on what they thought you might of meant.