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zigwah
22nd January 2009, 06:42 PM
Well i just got a set together and i have a quick question for you all Just been belting balls around the paddock (we have 40 acres here).

The irons i got i hit really straight, very high ball flight, they have s300 shafts in them, the driver i got has an Aldila dvs 65s and i am hitting a massive fade/slice, everytime.

My thoughts are that i may need a stiffer shaft in the driver and fairway wood.

What do you guys think?

henno
22nd January 2009, 07:03 PM
Stiffer shafts is not always the cure for a fade/slice.

More often than not (at least in my case) it is an outside-in swing caused from feeling to need to hit the driver harder/different to how you hit your irons.

Unless of course, your driver has a neutral/open face, and your irons are draw-biased and/or offset to buggery.

BrisVegas
22nd January 2009, 07:14 PM
this may sound silly, but are you setting up with a square clubface at address?? I know it's something I get wrong pretty much every time I play, so it's worth checking.

Moe Norman
22nd January 2009, 07:28 PM
stiffer shafts would increase the chances of hitting it right, so if anything you would need softer shafts

3oneday
22nd January 2009, 07:41 PM
Stiffer would normally do what moe says, it could be the "smash" factor ? ie, it's a driver, I have to smash the **** er :lol:

zigwah
22nd January 2009, 08:28 PM
I was thinking that the longer shaft in the driver is more flexible than the irons, leaving the club face open at impact and thats the reason i'm not slicing the irons?

3oneday
22nd January 2009, 09:10 PM
That also could be true, when you played last were you using steel in your driver ? You may consider swinging a lot slower for a while just until you get the feel for it again. The light and long shaft could be playing havoc.

zigwah
22nd January 2009, 09:14 PM
That also could be true, when you played last were you using steel in your driver ? You may consider swinging a lot slower for a while just until you get the feel for it again. The light and long shaft could be playing havoc.

When i last played i had aldila shaft also.

Will try a slower swing tomorrow and see what happens.

Courty
22nd January 2009, 09:27 PM
Wot 3oneday said. The flex shouldn't make much difference. I can hit anything from my x-stiff Superquad TP (with open face) to Haysey's reg shafted stuff with closed face... they all go straight, but the softer shafts just go higher.

henno
22nd January 2009, 09:30 PM
Wot 3oneday said. The flex shouldn't make much difference. I can hit anything from my x-stiff Superquad TP (with open face) to Haysey's reg shafted stuff with closed face... they all go straight, but the softer shafts just go higher.

I take it you're a good "releaser" of the club. I find with soft, whippy shafts in my driver I keep loading through the shot. I think this is more of a tempo thing than anything else, however.

zigwah
22nd January 2009, 10:04 PM
Ok, im no expert but this is what i know, or think i know about the golf swing, well my current situation

It shouldn't matter how you swing the club, as long as your clubface is square to the target at impact, that's all there is to hitting a straight golf ball.

If i have a divot that is pointing straight to the target and i'm slicing my club face is open at impact or im blocking it right because my shoulders aren't turning, or my hands haven't released through the ball, although i think this would result in a different divot? slicing divot, not as in fade but cutting the turf, if that makes sense? or my shaft is too whippy and club face is still open at impact.

Now i think my tempo is good but i'm no Freddie couples, i try to have the first part of my downswing to be as slow as my back swing until it reaches waist height, then i drive throught the ball.

Does that all sound like bullshit, or am i thinking too much?

I just know i cant hit driver like that when i get on course or i'll never see my wife lol, that may be a good thing :smt087

markTHEblake
22nd January 2009, 11:18 PM
they all go straight, but the softer shafts just go higher.

Then why does that pond way right on your first hole make you so nervous?

Golfnut
22nd January 2009, 11:46 PM
I'm doing exactly the same as you Zig....irons straight, driver sliced to buggery.

For me it was/is the smash factor....my solution; slow everthing down and concentrate of squaring the face at impact which should mean (I'm guessing) your releasing your hands/rist.

BTW. surely your not making divots with your driver!?!?!

mike
23rd January 2009, 08:23 PM
Then why does that pond way right on your first hole make you so nervous?

That's funny. You mean the first hole at Cairns ? Courty is the ONLY person I've seen put a ball in that pond and I've seen it twice.

haysey
23rd January 2009, 08:34 PM
That's funny. You mean the first hole at Cairns ? Courty is the ONLY person I've seen put a ball in that pond and I've seen it twice.


Has he really?



Hope to see that for myself on monday:D

haysey
23rd January 2009, 08:36 PM
Wot 3oneday said. The flex shouldn't make much difference. I can hit anything from my x-stiff Superquad TP (with open face) to Haysey's reg shafted stuff with closed face... They all go straight, but the softer shafts just go higher.



:-k

zigwah
23rd January 2009, 09:17 PM
Well first foray in over 7 years and what a shocker, 0 fairways 3 greens 18 putts, 45 and i was rooted at the end of nine holes!!!!!

3oneday
23rd January 2009, 09:20 PM
Well, I can now say first hand it aint the driver ;) the Mac I hit this arvo hit the back fence 250 away each drive (on the run of course ;)). That's as far and as straight as I can hit it !

I'll post a pic tomorrow of the face as well 8)

zigwah
23rd January 2009, 09:22 PM
Yeah, good on ya :smt108

3oneday
23rd January 2009, 09:23 PM
hehehe

zigwah
23rd January 2009, 09:23 PM
That's the thing hey, i reckon i hit 5 out of 6 drivers out of the guts, one was 2 fairways over, pin high

3oneday
23rd January 2009, 09:26 PM
Hmmm, have you stuck yourself on a video yet ? Super slow mo your transition, if you feel everything else is aligned OK. This is where I find I have troubles with blocking, where the club goes when I start my downswing.

zigwah
23rd January 2009, 09:28 PM
No, no video yet. Will check it out during the week.

The Mizuno raw's i just picked up saved my bacon, i thought for sure i would be hittting them fat to start after a long break

zigwah
23rd January 2009, 09:30 PM
The Mac actually motored, just not in the right diection!!!!

zigwah
23rd January 2009, 09:32 PM
I saw someone mention flipping in conjuction with high ball flight, can someone please explain this to me?

3oneday
23rd January 2009, 09:36 PM
virge666 is the flipping expert, so to speak :lol:

zigwah
23rd January 2009, 09:43 PM
Ok thanx, hopefully he reads this thread.

Golfnut
23rd January 2009, 10:22 PM
Well first foray in over 7 years and what a shocker, 0 fairways 3 greens 18 putts, 45 and i was rooted at the end of nine holes!!!!!

Mid 40's aint bad considering zig (That's my usual game actually 8-)).....you must have hit some decent recovery shots for 0 fairways.

markTHEblake
24th January 2009, 09:57 AM
That's funny. You mean the first hole at Cairns ? Courty is the ONLY person I've seen put a ball in that pond and I've seen it twice.

There is a thread here somewhere about how to play this 1st hole at Cairns, but Google earth cant zoom in close enough to see that pond its so small (and so far away), so i think Courty had to draw a red line around it. :razz:

virge666
25th January 2009, 11:15 AM
virge666 is the flipping expert, so to speak :lol:

Only because i am so damn good at it.

Flipping is the bending/breaking down of the the left wrist before or during or just after impact. (RH golfer) Also called "chicken wing", collapsed right side and a few others.

Flipping usually cause by hitting at the ball and not through it. The body and arms stop the clubface turns over and more loft is added to the face, hence the high draw you get. A lot of Juniors - myself included mastered this to get extra distance when we were small.

The trouble is there is no flight, no compression and very little spin. So the wind punishes it, distance control is crap and on bad days you hook the shit out of it or if added with a dodgey turn - you can slice it to the next golf course...

But if you get it right - it goes forever... which is why most golfers don't try and fix it. Those one or two good drives that day is enough to keep them happy.

The way to fix it is with work on posture and direction of turn. It takes ages and can turn you into a quivering mess.

zigwah
28th January 2009, 08:12 PM
I think i have fixed the problem :) I think i was opening my club face too much on the first part of my back swing, will see how it goes friday, when we head out for a round at Shepparton Golf course. watch this space

zigwah
28th January 2009, 08:15 PM
Only because i am so damn good at it.

Flipping is the bending/breaking down of the the left wrist before or during or just after impact. (RH golfer) Also called "chicken wing", collapsed right side and a few others.

Flipping usually cause by hitting at the ball and not through it. The body and arms stop the clubface turns over and more loft is added to the face, hence the high draw you get. A lot of Juniors - myself included mastered this to get extra distance when we were small.

The trouble is there is no flight, no compression and very little spin. So the wind punishes it, distance control is crap and on bad days you hook the shit out of it or if added with a dodgey turn - you can slice it to the next golf course...

But if you get it right - it goes forever... which is why most golfers don't try and fix it. Those one or two good drives that day is enough to keep them happy.

The way to fix it is with work on posture and direction of turn. It takes ages and can turn you into a quivering mess.

I don't think i am a flipper then Virge, as i have never been a big drawer of the ball, the occasional pull and snap hook but rarely a draw.

virge666
28th January 2009, 09:13 PM
I don't think i am a flipper then Virge, as i have never been a big drawer of the ball, the occasional pull and snap hook but rarely a draw.

yeah . . . flippers never hit that shot.

zigwah
31st January 2009, 09:22 PM
didn't play this week, just hit balls into the net.

Was shanking everything, so put the video on, OMG it was ugly!!!! club way off plane to the outside on the backswing and hitting early and coming over the top on the downswing, so now just working on getting back to an in to out swing path.

see how i go when this weather cools down a bit.

virge666
31st January 2009, 11:20 PM
Do you know what causes the shanks ?

Not why you were shanking . . . what the clubface is doing do cause a shank ?

zigwah
31st January 2009, 11:59 PM
flipping?

virge666
2nd February 2009, 05:10 PM
flipping?

Come on . . . you can do better than that.

Your problem is shanking the odd ball. So first off you have to figure out what is a shank, otherwise how can you fix it. I don't mean some bullshit reason like my left toe was pointed out too far or my head moved 3 inches back on the backswing.

What is the clubhead doing through impact to shank the ball ?

If you answer this correctly then you will have a chance of not only fixing the shanks but improve your ball striking. Especially pitching and chipping.

So, what causes a shank ?

zigwah
2nd February 2009, 06:58 PM
ok i'll have a crack.

Seeing as at the same time i was shanking, i was also getting a massive slice, i would assume that the club face would be open in the impact area?

I would also assume by the way i think i was hitting too early and coming over the top on the first part of my downswing, that i was chopping sort of down on the ball making my downswing shorter?

virge666
2nd February 2009, 11:16 PM
Seeing as at the same time i was shanking, i was also getting a massive slice, i would assume that the club face would be open in the impact area?


Good man !

A shank is caused by a CLOSING clubface. Yep - you heard me CLOSING clubface, much like a topped shot. You can check this with any pro worth their salt and they will back me up. Shanks are caused prematurely closing the clubface. (yes there is more to it.. but you have to start somewhere)

So the next question is - if you are shanking it and shanks are caused by a closing clubface, are your hands ahead of the ball or behind the ball at impact ?

zigwah
3rd February 2009, 07:38 AM
I would say hands would be way in front of the ball at impact

henno
3rd February 2009, 07:41 AM
I need to print out this thread and staple it to my eyelids. :shock:

Last week at the range, I hit at least 5 or 6 balls twice (*click-click* - hosel then clubface immediately after). And at the expense of possibly giving away the answer, the simple (and temporary? :razz:) fix was to just get my hands in the right spot through the ball.

](*,)

virge666
3rd February 2009, 09:36 AM
I would say hands would be way in front of the ball at impact

Sorry - No. Rehearse having the clubface closed and the hands in front at impact - now rehearse it with the hands behind... feel more familier ?

The "shank" is caused by swinging out to in and having the clubface extremely closed. This as mentioned above is probably the most distructive of all shots because it flies so powerfully and so dramitically off line. The problem quickly becomes phsychological and whilst usually showing up on short shots around the green, can soon infect mid and long irons as well.

So, with your swing as described by your video... if you get a little "over the top" or outside the plane as you put it and a little flippy at the bottom, you are in "hosel-town"

The easiest way to fix it is to hit "over the top pull cuts", this keeps the clubface open and trains the body to stay more level and over the ball through impact.

What this involves is what you already have being above the plane - but holding the clubface open through impact - the aim is to hit full 8i the same distance as you 9i except with a LOW cut.

Not a stupid violent slice - but a 10 yard fade. hit 5 of these then a couple of normal shots - you will never shank again.

Enjoy

Eag's
3rd February 2009, 09:54 AM
Spot on Virge :smt023 as many on here know, I have struggled with the shanks for sometime and it is a very frustrating experience :smt013
They really hit me bigtime when I had any wedge in my hand, my body would almost go into spasms through fear of the shank :smt087

What you have described above is a sure way of ridding yourself of them.
I am in the process of learning how to fade the ball with my golf pro and things are looking up. I still hit the odd one now and then but at least now I know what causes the shot.

virge666
3rd February 2009, 03:51 PM
Spot on Virge :smt023 as many on here know, I have struggled with the shanks for sometime and it is a very frustrating experience :smt013


Cheers Eag's. I get a bit cranky with people's self diagnosis. It really just belies straight forward thinking. Then I stop for a minute and relise I use to be exactly the same. :)

Stupid game.

zigwah
4th February 2009, 02:22 PM
So, with your swing as described by your video... if you get a little "over the top" or outside the plane as you put it and a little flippy at the bottom, you are in "hosel-town"

The easiest way to fix it is to hit "over the top pull cuts", this keeps the clubface open and trains the body to stay more level and over the ball through impact.

What this involves is what you already have being above the plane - but holding the clubface open through impact - the aim is to hit full 8i the same distance as you 9i except with a LOW cut.

Not a stupid violent slice - but a 10 yard fade. hit 5 of these then a couple of normal shots - you will never shank again.

Enjoy

This is just a bandaid fix isn't it Virge? Just trying to adapt and use the rest of what you have?

Why wouldn't it be better to fix the start of the problem, not the end?

I certainly don't want my stock shot to be a fade.

virge666
4th February 2009, 06:08 PM
This is just a bandaid fix isn't it Virge?


just so isn't. think about the problem that you have, and ask that question again.



Why wouldn't it be better to fix the start of the problem, not the end?


Interesting - where do you think the beginning and the end of the golf swing are ? What part of the swing do you think that decent golfers work on the most ?

Would you think that the backswing is more important than impact ?



I certainly don't want my stock shot to be a fade.


Of course you don't - no decent golfers hit fades, except for 6 of the top 10 golfers in the world. This is because you don't know the difference between a fade and a slice or a draw and a hook. You are basing your golfing direction on fables and falacies.

I am more than happy to spend the time answering questions... but you also have to work out a few things for yourself.

So lets start with the Q's at the top of the page.

zigwah
4th February 2009, 06:24 PM
just so isn't. think about the problem that you have, and ask that question again.

Ok, clubface shutting, out to in swing.

Interesting - where do you think the beginning and the end of the golf swing are ? What part of the swing do you think that decent golfers work on the most ?

I would think they work on takeaway and the start of the downswing the most.

Would you think that the backswing is more important than impact ?

I dont think any part is more important, but i do think that whatever the face is doing at impact can't be changed at the bottom of the backswing.



Of course you don't - no decent golfers hit fades, except for 6 of the top 10 golfers in the world. This is because you don't know the difference between a fade and a slice or a draw and a hook. You are basing your golfing direction on fables and falacies.

Sure lots of golfers hit fades, i just don't want it to be my stock shot

I am more than happy to spend the time answering questions... but you also have to work out a few things for yourself.

So lets start with the Q's at the top of the page.

virge666
4th February 2009, 06:53 PM
Firstly mate - sensational answers. Thanks for taking part.



Ok, clubface shutting, out to in swing.


So what do we fix first ? Closing clubface or the Swing plane ?

hint: mix and match them... what gives teh worst shot... OTT and open clubface - or - on plane and closing clubface ? Which one can you play golf with ?

More importantly - which one will be more consistant - and give you a lower score ?



I would think they work on takeaway and the start of the downswing the most.


nope - Impact. Impact is the "Moment of Truth" - i can put 100 top golfers on video for you and they will all look pretty much the same at impact, whilst their backswing will almost certainly be different.

Noone gives a shit about your backswing - if you fix impact, you will find that your backswing has usually "magically" sorted itself out. This process is called "educating the hands"



I dont think any part is more important, but i do think that whatever the face is doing at impact can't be changed at the bottom of the backswing.


A lot of people will disagree with you there... Steve Baan who coaches KJ Choi, Appleby and quite a few other golfers runs most of his schools using special drills that fix impact. I have seen this guy take a 19 marker and in front of 40 pro golfers improve this choppers swing in about 20 minutes.

All by fixing impact, adn this in turn flows back through your swing.



Sure lots of golfers hit fades, i just don't want it to be my stock shot


that's cool, I want you to hit draws too - just not hooks. I guarentee you that you cannot hit a draw at this present time. They are both very different beasts.

Can go into this more if you like.

So next step - what do we change ?

3oneday
4th February 2009, 07:07 PM
Damn, you got him started now Ziggy :lol:

zigwah
4th February 2009, 07:12 PM
Firstly mate - sensational answers. Thanks for taking part.

Hey, i'm here to learn and i don't mind a bit of to and fro and thanx for your time



So what do we fix first ? Closing clubface or the Swing plane ?

hint: mix and match them... what gives teh worst shot... OTT and open clubface - or - on plane and closing clubface ? Which one can you play golf with ?

More importantly - which one will be more consistant - and give you a lower score ?

My line of thought is that if i fix the start of my downswing, because i am on plane going to the top, and get more of an in to out swing path, my hands should somewhat fix themselves. I have been practicing pulling the butt end of the shaft more towards the ground first in stead of just about turning my arms throught the ball from the top it seems to help a little.

I'm all ears when it comes to fixing my hands at impact, do you have any ideas or drills how to do this?



nope - Impact. Impact is the "Moment of Truth" - i can put 100 top golfers on video for you and they will all look pretty much the same at impact, whilst their backswing will almost certainly be different.

Noone gives a shit about your backswing

This bit sounds good to me :)

- if you fix impact, you will find that your backswing has usually "magically" sorted itself out. This process is called "educating the hands"



A lot of people will disagree with you there... Steve Baan who coaches KJ Choi, Appleby and quite a few other golfers runs most of his schools using special drills that fix impact. I have seen this guy take a 19 marker and in front of 40 pro golfers improve this choppers swing in about 20 minutes.

All by fixing impact, adn this in turn flows back through your swing.

I have never heard this before



that's cool, I want you to hit draws too - just not hooks. I guarentee you that you cannot hit a draw at this present time. They are both very different beasts.

You are right, not even close to a draw, although i haven,t hit any ball other than into a net after practicing what i mentioned before, but it does seem to have fixed the shanking issue, albeit from only a hundred odd balls.

Can go into this more if you like

Please do , i'm startimng to get very interested.

So next step - what do we change ?

Well i'm sure you will say impact and i say downswing, like you said can we mix and match and work on both?

virge666
4th February 2009, 08:46 PM
Righto - I am open to all your ideas.

How do we fix your downswing ?

zigwah
4th February 2009, 08:55 PM
Not sure but i've trying to get left hip turn to pull the butt of the shaft straight down to the ground, but if i over do it or don't let the hips do it, i hit it fat, but i think that's just afeel thing?

zigwah
4th February 2009, 09:03 PM
One other thing i should mention, is i have a bad habit of going past parallel at the top of my swing and i hate it, and no matter how hard i try to stop just sort of parallel i just can't do it, it was evena bug bear when i was playing a lot.

virge666
4th February 2009, 09:05 PM
Not sure but i've trying to get left hip turn to pull the butt of the shaft straight down to the ground, but if i over do it or don't let the hips do it, i hit it fat, but i think that's just afeel thing?


Not quite sure what you are saying here... you may have to be more specific...

Left hip turning which way ?
This is on the downswing I guess ?

I was going to guess that you are pulling the club down on the downswing with you hips to try and get the club inside or under the plane. But I don't want to assume.

virge666
4th February 2009, 09:08 PM
One other thing i should mention, is i have a bad habit of going past parallel at the top of my swing and i hate it, and no matter how hard i try to stop just sort of parallel i just can't do it, it was evena bug bear when i was playing a lot.


Why do you think this is a problem ?

zigwah
4th February 2009, 09:19 PM
Not quite sure what you are saying here... you may have to be more specific...

Left hip turning which way ?

Left hip straight back to start down swing

This is on the downswing I guess ?

Yes

I was going to guess that you are pulling the club down on the downswing with you hips to try and get the club inside or under the plane. But I don't want to assume.

Yes correct.

zigwah
4th February 2009, 09:21 PM
Why do you think this is a problem ?

Pro i used to have lessons with always wanted me to not go over parallel, he reckons only Daly could pull it off consistently.

zigwah
5th February 2009, 05:36 PM
So how do we educate the hands?

virge666
5th February 2009, 08:44 PM
Pro i used to have lessons with always wanted me to not go over parallel, he reckons only Daly could pull it off consistently.

Well he is a moron. Swinging past parallel has everything to do with the direction of your backswing and absolutley nothing to do with conscious effort.

With a decent turn - you would have to be a gymnast to get the club to parallel.

virge666
5th February 2009, 08:52 PM
So how do we educate the hands?

Righto - you educate the hands by hitting half shots, and completing the nine ball drill.

Nine ball drill...

high, medium and low
fade, straight and draw. (10m each way)

The aim of the game is to hit nine different shots with say a 3/4 8 iron. So if you hit a 8 iron 130m... pick a target 100m away and LAND the ball on the distance with each shot. You must hit the ball to the distance - there is no point hitting one 140m and the next one 90m. This is VITAL.

What you will find is that there is a few shots you will have a lot of trouble hitting. Shankers usually struggle with low cuts (ironic huh ?)

That is educating the hands...

zigwah
5th February 2009, 09:06 PM
Well he is a moron. Swinging past parallel has everything to do with the direction of your backswing and absolutley nothing to do with conscious effort.

With a decent turn - you would have to be a gymnast to get the club to parallel.

So my shoulder turn is incorrect?

so if my club goes past parallel and points right of the target, what is wrong? too much shoulder turn?

zigwah
5th February 2009, 09:06 PM
Righto - you educate the hands by hitting half shots, and completing the nine ball drill.

Nine ball drill...

high, medium and low
fade, straight and draw. (10m each way)

The aim of the game is to hit nine different shots with say a 3/4 8 iron. So if you hit a 8 iron 130m... pick a target 100m away and LAND the ball on the distance with each shot. You must hit the ball to the distance - there is no point hitting one 140m and the next one 90m. This is VITAL.

What you will find is that there is a few shots you will have a lot of trouble hitting. Shankers usually struggle with low cuts (ironic huh ?)

That is educating the hands...


I'll give this a go thanx Virge, what am i trying to achieve, i mean what am i educating my hands to do? Memory?

henno
5th February 2009, 09:36 PM
Practice puts brains in your muscles.

- Sam Snead.

zigwah
6th February 2009, 02:50 PM
Went to Shepparton GC today for 9 holes had 55 with two 10's but i actually hit the ball better than the 45 the other day at Kialla. Driver is still right but not as far right as it was the other day.

No Shanks today but i did blade a few wedges, i would say at least half a dozen, contributing to my two 10's

1 fairway
0 greens
17 putts

2 OOB's

zigwah
6th February 2009, 02:55 PM
Virge after what you said about shoulder turn and going past parallel, would it make sense in getting a proper shoulder turn before working on educating my hands.

Is it possible my hands are doing the right thing at the bottom of the swing but everything is being thrown out, with shit shoulder turn?

I am finding other than shanking the ball my actual ball striking is ok, does finding out about the poor shoulder turn change you thinking at all?

zigwah
6th February 2009, 02:56 PM
Trying to post some video of my swing but i'm having trouble working out wondows movie maker

henno
6th February 2009, 03:00 PM
Trying to post some video of my swing but i'm having trouble working out wondows movie maker

That's because Windows Movie Maker is a crime against computing.

Using it makes baby jesus cry.

zigwah
6th February 2009, 03:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbWa4wgx5gc

Ok here it is warts and all

Be gentle

henno
6th February 2009, 04:03 PM
Gee, that's a nice looking driver :)

zigwah
6th February 2009, 04:27 PM
cheers mate, next time i need to know if my arse looks big in a pair of pants i'm asking you

virge666
7th February 2009, 10:10 AM
So my shoulder turn is incorrect?

so if my club goes past parallel and points right of the target, what is wrong? too much shoulder turn?


Have a look at Camillo on TV at present - he has one of the best shoulder turns in the game today. He is also one of the fittest, strongest and supple players on the tour. And he doesn't even get near parallel.

Check out JB Holmes as well . . . Lots of shoulder turn without all the little extra "hinges" of hips and wrists and knees. The result is something more balanced and easier to "SMASH" at.

Turn your shoulders back and keep your wrist neutral. You will see what I mean.

PS: Not pointing right either. :)

zigwah
7th February 2009, 10:46 AM
I'll have to check these guys out on you tube if they are on there, no foxtel here

virge666
7th February 2009, 12:07 PM
Google Veetle TV

free golf channel.

zigwah
7th February 2009, 12:10 PM
Thanx Virge

zigwah
8th February 2009, 05:46 PM
Hey Virge, checked out Camilo, really like the look of of his swing, short and sweet. So i gave it a try and blocked everything right, very little slice just a block, posture, poor shoulder turn? although it feels lkie to get the club to stop that short my shoulders hardly turned at all.

Haven't tried the 9 ball drill yet as i need to get a few more balls to lose in the paddock.

Anyone know where i can get bulk practice balls from cheap say 500 of em, just looking for balls that sre just about rooted, not split or anything?

3oneday
8th February 2009, 06:10 PM
I bought 200 off squizzysgolf balls one ebay for $55 delivered, actually I just emailed him instead of doing ebay. 27 cents a ball for hit aways is the best I could find.

zigwah
8th February 2009, 07:11 PM
Thanx for the info 3 sounds ok

zigwah
9th February 2009, 03:37 PM
Just wondering, when measuring for a club fitting do you have golf shoes on for your height?

virge666
9th February 2009, 03:39 PM
Just wondering, when measuring for a club fitting do you have golf shoes on for your height?


Do you have golf shoes on when you intend to use said golf clubs ?

:)

zigwah
9th February 2009, 03:44 PM
Yeah, i thought it was a sily question,but you know what htey say about not asking questions :)

How goes it Virge, when do we start the next Q&A session?

virge666
9th February 2009, 06:05 PM
Just doing my "end of month" run.

Gimme 24 hours.

zigwah
9th February 2009, 06:10 PM
No problems Virge no rush

zigwah
11th February 2009, 10:01 AM
Been practicing a revised version of the 9 ball, i call it the 3 ball drill lol, but i seem to be getting a little better ball fkight, not so erratic, althought i have only been using a 7 iron.

I don't feel in control of my swing as lot of times 3/4 of ther the way back and at the start of the downswing, but there has beenn improvment :)

zigwah
11th February 2009, 11:24 AM
Just been hiting a seven iron in the paddock and still hitting it 150 with a shortened swing, well i say shortened, i haven't videoed it yet

zigwah
12th February 2009, 06:56 PM
Here i was blissfully hitting 7 irons into the paddock and then bang shank, shank, shank,.

I've been trying really hard practicing slowly what i want my hands to do through impact and i thought i was getting somewhere but obviously not.

something seems terribly out of whack at the top, i'll try a video something tomorrow and see what u guys think, because i am at a loss.

razaar
12th February 2009, 07:26 PM
Here i was blissfully hitting 7 irons into the paddock and then bang shank, shank, shank,.

I've been trying really hard practicing slowly what i want my hands to do through impact and i thought i was getting somewhere but obviously not.

something seems terribly out of whack at the top, i'll try a video something tomorrow and see what u guys think, because i am at a loss.
Saw the first video and your trouble with the transition from the top. Think of the golf swing as a turn and lift, down and turn. The downswing is a drop of the arms into the plane set by the shaft angle at address followed by a turn. You are not getting into the slot and seem to be engaging the right shoulder in the downswing (the classic over the top move). The easiest way to learn this move is have the feeling of everything staying still fractionally at the top of the backswing while both arms are lowered or dropped behind to get a shallow or inside attack on the golf ball. The cursed right shoulder has no place in the golf swing. Hope this helps and I am not interfering with Virge's advice.

zigwah
12th February 2009, 08:53 PM
Thanx Razaar, alll info i get here i appreciate. Yeah hope to hear from Virge whne he's not so busy

zigwah
13th February 2009, 10:44 AM
Just uploaded a new vid.

Thought i had shortened my swing, but it's still the same :cry: doesn't look as much over the top as the last one, and been trying to "educate" hands at impact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvBe9BfWo4E&feature=channel_page

virge666
13th February 2009, 01:15 PM
I was going to do video and voices and stuff but sorry mate just don't have the time at present.

So . . . lets start at the beginning.

Your posture is awful, there is nothing about that setup position that allows you to load the club either on the way back or on the way down.

Your chin is down - your spine is curved and your arms hang inwards towards your knees - all you can do with this posture is start the takeaway way inside - then drive the right hip low on the downswing to get any power. Drive the legs too much and you will shank it.

So we have to fix your posture first.

Straighten your back, stick your chest out and get your chin up. Lets your arms hang and get the club out in front of you. Look at any of the younger Aussie players for comparison. Turn using your shoulders, not your hips, GET YOUR CHIN UP and keep it up.

Then we can TURN back and turn through. get your head and chest to face the target on the through, there is nothing on the ground 3 feet in front of the ball worth looking at so stop it. :)

Enjoy

zigwah
13th February 2009, 01:44 PM
I was going to do video and voices and stuff but sorry mate just don't have the time at present.

If you ever get time mate i would really appreciate something like this but if not your words are invaluable thank you

So . . . lets start at the beginning.

Your posture is awful, there is nothing about that setup position that allows you to load the club either on the way back or on the way down.

Can you please explain this further, the loading

Your chin is down - your spine is curved and your arms hang inwards towards your knees

Am i standing too close to the ball, and need to stand up straighter?

- all you can do with this posture is start the takeaway way inside - then drive the right hip low on the downswing to get any power. Drive the legs too much and you will shank it.

I don't quite understand this bit, am i slouched over and the only way i can take the club bcak on plane is on the extreme inside?

i am just about to upload a vid from the front maybe you could explain this further

So we have to fix your posture first.

Straighten your back, stick your chest out and get your chin up. Lets your arms hang and get the club out in front of you. Look at any of the younger Aussie players for comparison. Turn using your shoulders, not your hips, GET YOUR CHIN UP and keep it up.

Are my arms too close to the ball?

Then we can TURN back and turn through. get your head and chest to face the target on the through, there is nothing on the ground 3 feet in front of the ball worth looking at so stop it. :)

In my best pauline hanson voice please explain"

Enjoy

Thank you for your time Virge as i am sure it is valuable :)

zigwah
13th February 2009, 02:01 PM
Here is a front view and i can really see my hip turning more than shoulders

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6EJOT-yrSE

virge666
13th February 2009, 04:04 PM
Email me JUST ONE of those front swings - i will show you exactly.

BTW: You are asking the wrong questions - re read the instructions and all you questions are answered.

zigwah
13th February 2009, 04:39 PM
From what i can tell my shoulder turn is up the shit and i have been making my swing plane too flat to try and get an inside to out swing path thus doing the oppisite.

Is that anywhere near close?

E-mail sent

virge666
13th February 2009, 05:43 PM
Too complex - stop thinking, fix your posture and then lets have a look at your swing.

Straighten your back, stick your chest out and get your chin up. Lets your arms hang and get the club out in front of you.

You will feel like you are looking over your nose at the ball, but try it and see how your backswing feels. Keep your head more centered on the backswing - no need for it to move 2 feet right.

zigwah
14th February 2009, 12:55 PM
Thanx Virge i'll give the posture a good hard look, i think after so long out of the game , i just expected to grip it and rip like i used to, and up until now haven't really thought of posture much, well for the last 2 weeks.

One question, do you think i am swinging too flat, i tried swinging a lot more upright yesterday by that i mean trying what you said about posture, but also i noticed my shoulders torso and arms were pivoting too much so i tried concentrating on my shoulders doing the actual swinging, and it felt very wierd and i topped a few balls, and had to keep an eye on the dreaded reverse pivot, but i actually hit some pure golf shots with a bit of draw, not many, but enough to give encouragement, i know you don't want me thinking too much, but thats what i do, i have OCD when it comes to wanting to get back to where i was before i stopped playing and i will however many thousands of balls to achieve that.

I read your words and u are on the right track, i'm just slow on the uptake, so please be patient with and i will be a dilligent student

Once again VIrge thanx for your time

zigwah
14th February 2009, 01:34 PM
What guys on tour should i be looking at to see where i want my posture to be?

virge666
14th February 2009, 02:38 PM
Thanx Virge i'll give the posture a good hard look, i think after so long out of the game , i just expected to grip it and rip like i used to, and up until now haven't really thought of posture much, well for the last 2 weeks.


Alrighty - fix that posture and lets see how your swing looks.



One question, do you think i am swinging too flat, i tried swinging a lot more upright yesterday by that i mean trying what you said about posture, but also i noticed my shoulders torso and arms were pivoting too much so i tried concentrating on my shoulders doing the actual swinging, and it felt very wierd and i topped a few balls, and had to keep an eye on the dreaded reverse pivot, but i actually hit some pure golf shots with a bit of draw, not many, but enough to give encouragement, i know you don't want me thinking too much, but thats what i do, i have OCD when it comes to wanting to get back to where i was before i stopped playing and i will however many thousands of balls to achieve that.


OK, I have tried nice and that didn't work - let's go for stupidly arrogant and blunt.

You ask for advice, we offer advice and you totally ignore it and head off on some other tangent, making excuses for this and that.

Let's start again.



Straighten your back, stick your chest out and get your chin up. Lets your arms hang and get the club out in front of you. Look at any of the younger Aussie players for comparison. Turn using your shoulders, not your hips, GET YOUR CHIN UP and keep it up.


That is three times now I have said exactly the same thing - and on each occasion you have ignored it and gone off on something else.

Why adjust your hand position if your posture is wrong?
Why adjust your swing plane if your posture is wrong?
Why adjust your distance from the ball if your posture is wrong?

or . . .

If you change your posture - what happens to you hand position, swing plane and distance from the ball.

or . . .

I really couldn't care about you hand position, swing plane or anything else because it is attached to the end of an hunched over bloke with a spine like an upside down "J".

or . . .

If you do change your swing plane, hand position and whatever else grabs your fancy, what help is this if your setup position is not stable.

or . . .

Fix your posture first and then we can see what effect that has on swing plane, hand position and other stuff. but untill that time - it is bloody pointless trying to change anything else because the bit that your arms are attached to is awful.

or . . .

Whilst I see you have a good interest in various parts of the golf swing, the first port of call would have to be the posture. if we cannot get this setup position correct, then trying to make changes to arm and hand positions would be difficult to make permenant. it really is important that we stay focused on the first part of the swing and get that right before we move on to the other more technical parts.

or . . .

blah blah blah Fix your f*cking posture blah blah blah.

Enjoy

PS: this is what happens when i don't play golf on Saturday. :)

markTHEblake
14th February 2009, 03:12 PM
Here is a front view and i can really see my hip turning more than shoulders


Crikey! :shock: the thing that i find most noticeable is how the heck do you get in the front door?

the_man
16th February 2009, 01:21 PM
hahaha He is a tall lad thats for sure!

I had a lesson the other day and the pro only worked on 2 things, making a slight correction to my grip & fixing up my posture. The improvement this made was incredible. As Virge may have said above, the other things fell into place once I got my fundamentals 100% correct. Good luck with fixing up your swing mate!

virge666
16th February 2009, 01:31 PM
I had a lesson the other day and the pro only worked on 2 things, making a slight correction to my grip & fixing up my posture.

Good pro - you should stick with him. We need more like him that actally start at the beginning.

The simple logic is this.

If you cannot get your posture right - then what hope have you got with the first 2 feet of the takeaway. And if you get that wrong... you are just relying on hand eye co-ordination... and that is why you have good days and bad days.

If you get that posture right... then you can start to feel confortable over the ball and it just builds from there.

dan
16th February 2009, 01:57 PM
Good pro - you should stick with him. We need more like him that actally start at the beginning.

I will 2nd that. :wink:

There are too many "band aid" coaches.

razaar
16th February 2009, 03:11 PM
On posture - good posture is not stiff and straight but relaxed and extended. The back and neck need to be relaxed & extended to rotate around the spine. In fact the back will extend further the more it rotates. It cannot rotate effectively if it is held in a slumped or kinked posture. There maybe some rounding in the shoulder area but the mid to lower back & neck area needs to be extended to achieve a full coil and prevent injury.

3oneday
16th February 2009, 03:24 PM
You taking virge666 elocution lessons ?

virge666
16th February 2009, 03:30 PM
It cannot rotate effectively if it is held in a slumped or kinked posture.


Nice one razaar.

zigwah
16th February 2009, 05:43 PM
Thanx for the advice all, having been working on better posture and it feels very wierd indeed.

razaar
16th February 2009, 06:04 PM
This whole thread is weird.

zigwah
16th February 2009, 06:47 PM
This whole thread is weird.

Why is that Razaar?

zigwah
16th February 2009, 07:12 PM
Well here is my first recoreded attempt at a posture change, how far away is it from where i need to be? Am i grasping what you were talking about Virge?

BTW this isn't mean't to be a wind up and some of my questions may come across as idiotic, but i do want to learn :) If i knew all the answers i wouldn't have so many questions, so from now on i'll just listen and do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4qAbAQtiAk

markTHEblake
16th February 2009, 07:25 PM
Note to Golfer69, thats how to post a swing video, 2min44s of hitting balls, not 2min42s of waggle and one hit.

zigwah
16th February 2009, 07:42 PM
Note to Golfer69, thats how to post a swing video, 2min44s of hitting balls, not 2min42s of waggle and one hit.


What the? :-k

virge666
16th February 2009, 08:39 PM
Well here is my first recoreded attempt at a posture change, how far away is it from where i need to be? Am i grasping what you were talking about Virge?


Much better - So MUCH better. yes it does look like you are taking a dump - but that will soften up later. You look way more on plane on the downswing now and your legs are less active.

We will do a lot better if i can get a view in front though. We can now start to solid up your left side and give you something to hit against.

in fact - lets stick with front views for the time being.

zigwah
16th February 2009, 08:43 PM
ok, will do thanx

zigwah
17th February 2009, 07:43 AM
Ok, here is the front view as requested of my posture, some balls feel a lot better contact and others feel just plain unco. thanx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV-jFNAWf-o

razaar
17th February 2009, 07:58 AM
Why is that Razaar?
Well this thread is into its 6th page and you are just getting the fundamentals of posture. Reminds me of a radio series "when a girl marries" started when I was about 10 and was still going 20+ years later. This could be the longest thread in the history of forums.


http://gprime.net/flash.php/postingandyou

zigwah
17th February 2009, 08:01 AM
or days of our lives.

razaar
17th February 2009, 08:02 AM
or days of our lives.
that's the other one I was trying to remember.:lol:

haysey
17th February 2009, 10:08 AM
Keep it up Zigwah. That video is just like looking in a mirror:shock:


I'm watching this thread with a great deal of interest...

razaar
17th February 2009, 10:41 AM
zig..look closely at the video especially your hand position at take away; at the start it is off plane i.e, outside the line. This is what they refer to as lift and turn which results in a laid off club position and/or a flat plane at the top. This type of swing requires an inside loop at the start of the downswing and an aggressive body turn through impact and beyond with the arms being thrown out at the target from behind the ball position. I am sure Virge will agree on this.

adlo
17th February 2009, 10:43 AM
With all the quality advice from Razaar and virge here, i best get started on taking a video myself.

virge666
17th February 2009, 12:05 PM
Keep it up Zigwah. That video is just like looking in a mirror:shock:


I'm watching this thread with a great deal of interest...


You should . . . . Especially big bastards like yourself.

virge666
17th February 2009, 12:14 PM
I am sure Virge will agree on this.

Yep - welcome to direction of turn.

This is how your shoulders work on the backswing, or actually how they DON'T work on the backswing. At present you are turning with your torso and legs. There is no coil, and hence no "turn" and therefore no release.

Lets change that.

Firstly strengthen the grip in your right hand you are WAAAAAYY to weak. To strengthen it we rotate the right hand anti-clockwise so that our palm of the right hand is pushed against the grip - not the last three fingers of the right hand.

Next . . .

i want you to keep your hips facing the camera on the start of the backswing, I want you to coil your shoulders against your hips. The easiest way to do this is to bend you right elbow early in teh backswing and keep it close to your ribcage on the back swing. Pull that right elbow back past your ribcage and let your left shoulder come around.

lets see how you go with that... and yep - you will feel like a spaz.

zigwah
17th February 2009, 03:08 PM
I Just had a go, and yup felt like a spaz :) i'll give it a practice tonight and post a vid to see how i went, the strangest feeling to me was the grip.

zigwah
17th February 2009, 03:12 PM
I'm glad others are enjoying this thread as much as i am, as i was a little hesitant to start with asking questions, but the advice and instruction i am getting is in valuable and much appreciated Thank you

3oneday
17th February 2009, 03:19 PM
So does that mean it isn't the drivers fault ?


:lol:

virge666
17th February 2009, 03:23 PM
last thing i want to add with the turn.

I want you LEFT KNEE to move out over your left foot instead of twisting inside towards you right foot. Think of throwing a ball you actually brace your front foot/leg/knee.

This will solid up your base and shorten your swing.

zigwah
17th February 2009, 05:42 PM
Changed the name of the thread because this is turning into a journey

zigwah
17th February 2009, 06:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mExgGXXgfqc

This lot didn't actually feel too bad after a bit of practice

virge666
17th February 2009, 09:38 PM
Grip is better backswing isn't

I need you to stop turning your torso and to start turning your shoulders. When you turn your torso (hips and legs) your head moves about a foot backwards and the club goes too far inside. We cant have this, we need to get you UNSTUCK.

Lets try another way.

On the backswing - the left hip must NOT MOVE to the right. I just want you to pick the club up and wrap your arms around your neck.

Try this in the mirror. Keep going until you can do this without sliding that left hip to the right. i don't mind it coming forward an inch or two - but NOT to the right.

Enjoy

zigwah
18th February 2009, 08:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8OILBAAhIU

I think that went oook, felt so wierd doing nothing with my hips, and i was really fighting it.

Am i allowed to use the hips on the downswing? or is that further down the line Virge?

virge666
18th February 2009, 08:58 AM
Am i allowed to use the hips on the downswing? or is that further down the line Virge?

That is pretty impressive for 3 days work mate - well done.

Righto - next step. Lets use the hips on the downswing, the backswing looks better, the lower half looks sensational.

The aim of the game is to get in sync, the hips lead by about a millisecond. You have coiled up - now uncoil. Use your hips and entire right side of your body to smash it.

Let your head come up and around after impact, stop looking at the ground, otherwise I shall call you Cinderella. (Stayed at the ball too long) :)

Enjoy

zigwah
18th February 2009, 09:04 AM
ok, lol @ cinderella

I have plenty of time to practice, the reasons why, i went into in my intro thread.

I'll see how i go with that, really enjoying this btw thanx again it's been sensational

razaar
18th February 2009, 09:08 AM
This is a tip pulled off the net that may help and save Virge some typing.

Fire the Hips!

By Brett Gorney
PGA Director of Instruction, GolfTEC
July 26, 1999
Part 2 of a two-part series: Hip Rotation in the Golf Swing
Remember that little guy on the driving range from last tip--the one that was bombing his driver to the back of the range? Well, he wasn't hitting the ball that far just by keeping his hips from over-rotating on the backswing.
Part One of this article was about the hip rotation at the top of the swing. I wrote about turning the hips too far on the backswing--a common fault I see when teaching. Over-rotation of the hips creates a loss of power because the golfer then has to un-rotate even more in order to get back to the ball at impact.
Part of the power in the golf swing comes from the shoulder rotation being greater than the hip rotation at the top of the swing. Known as the X-Factor, this difference in rotation creates a stretch or coiling of the body. That puts you in a powerful position at the top, but this is only one-half of the golf swing.
All of the golfers that can hit the ball a long way have one thing in common. They are firing their hips around on the downswing. Another common fault I see in teaching is the student's hips not being open enough at impact. GolfTEC's motion analysis computer measures how many degrees the hips have turned open (towards the target) at the impact position.
Our data shows us that the PGA Tour player's hips are turned 40 degrees open at impact and most of the golfers I teach have only turned their hips 10 to 20 degrees open. This is typically the result of a lateral slide on the downswing rather than a turn of the hips. When the hips do not open through the impact area, there are usually several other reactions that amount to inconsistency and loss of distance.
As the golfer slides through the shot, inconsistencies and loss of distance arise from the bending of the left arm through the impact area (right arm for lefties). Ask yourself this question, "How consistent is 'bent' during a moving action?" As the left arm is bending, the club is being pulled away from the ball and inside the intended path.
Since the club is pulling in towards you, the ball is struck with a glancing blow and on the toe of the club resulting in a slice that doesn't go very far. Does this sound familiar? It is a very common fault, so here is a three-part drill to get you on your way to correcting the problem.
Start by setting up to the ball. Your belt buckle is facing the ball…this is zero degrees of rotation. We are looking for 40 degrees or more at impact. Keeping the club on the ground behind the ball and your upper body still, start turning your hips open toward the target. Your belt buckle should now be turned so that it is facing out towards your left foot. Now reset up to the ball, this time take a 1/4 backswing and make a slow downswing, turning your hips and stopping at the ball.
Again, your hips should be turned open toward the target so that your belt buckle is turned out towards your left foot. You will also notice that your left leg is straight and not bent at the knee. The last part of the drill is to take the 1/4 backswing and swing through this time trying to turn the hips as much as possible. Repeat this three-part drill 25 times and really concentrate on turning your hips open.
Here are some swing thoughts that a handful of my students think of when trying to turn the hips more through impact.
"Fire the right hip around."
"Fire the right knee towards the left knee."
"Get my left leg straight and left hip turned behind me"
"Get my right pocket turned to the ball as soon as possible."
"Turn my belt buckle towards the target"
"Hit the ball with my right hip."
There is no right or wrong thought, just find something that works for you. Practice this in front of a mirror so you can see the hips turning through. If you are keeping your hips from over-rotating on the backswing and doing it correctly, you should start to see more consistent ball contact and greater distance.

zigwah
18th February 2009, 09:19 AM
Thanx for the article razaar, i understrood some of it, and didn't understand a lot of it, i guess i will, as i come along further with the technical aspect of the swing, none the less though thank you for your time in digging this up for me, muchly appreciated

dan
18th February 2009, 10:02 AM
Virge will probably get to this point in due course, but the thing that stands out for me is you're not turning fully onto your left side through the shot. Chest needs to face the target whereas you're still looking down at the ground well after impact and follow through.

zigwah
18th February 2009, 11:47 AM
Well the time has come to put into practice the sequence i having been learning. And let me tell you it felt very very foreign, i almost feel at the top that i have no idea how to get back down the bottom and hit the ball, if that makes sense.

I think putting this altogether on a regular basis is going to be a challenge, but i'm up for it.

So here is the next instalment putting it all together

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHntoQo-CcE

zigwah
18th February 2009, 11:49 AM
Oh and btw half way through the clip i dash of to grab the tee, i do come back :)

razaar
18th February 2009, 06:20 PM
Ziggy...that looked pretty good...the acid test will be to see where the balls finish up without the net. One thing to always keep in mind is that you have to return through your address positin, otherwise there is no reason to have an address position. Your arms set up under your shoulders so they must return through the same position during the through swing. A good thought to have at the top of the swing is to swing down under the left shoulder from inside and extend out at the target. The right arm should finish higher than the right shoulder with the shoulders level & parallel with the ground (on normal shots) and the shoulders remain stationary at the finish.

zigwah
18th February 2009, 07:24 PM
Just whacked a heap of ball with the driver into the paddock, and i still sliced it :( i'm going to have to learn how to get back down to address like you said razaar.

Contact felt a lot better so the hard bit will be syncronising it all together and educating my hand i suppose?

i was really hoping to see a snap hook at least :(

zigwah
18th February 2009, 08:04 PM
Am i am flipping in gthat final vid virge?

markTHEblake
18th February 2009, 08:22 PM
..... and save Virge some typing

hell will freeze over first.

virge666
18th February 2009, 10:05 PM
You last iron before you pick up the driver is the one i like. You go back to your old turn with your legs and drive with the legs when you ge the driver out.

Lets see some swings where your hands don't go above shoulder height. i want the clubshaft pointing to 1 o'clock and your hands at shoulder height.

Throw the driver away - you can't hit it yet - lets just work on the irons and we can move up the food chain.

virge666
18th February 2009, 10:07 PM
Virge will probably get to this point in due course, but the thing that stands out for me is you're not turning fully onto your left side through the shot. Chest needs to face the target whereas you're still looking down at the ground well after impact and follow through.


This will happen as your upper body starts to do some work... there is still a bit to do here as your lower half is still hitting the ball - there is not much release of the hands.

And yep - big flip.

zigwah
19th February 2009, 09:10 AM
So does that mean it isn't the drivers fault ?


:lol:

I missed this, the jury is still out ;)

zigwah
19th February 2009, 09:14 AM
This will happen as your upper body starts to do some work... there is still a bit to do here as your lower half is still hitting the ball - there is not much release of the hands.

And yep - big flip.

i was always taught that the left hip started the downswing was this wrong or will i eventually get back to that but after i have retrained or unstuck my arms and shoulders?

zigwah
19th February 2009, 09:21 AM
just tried swing to shoulder height and getting the shaft to 1 oclock, initially i thought how the f*** am i going to do that. but after a few swings i was hitting it flush with a whole lot more power, what was happening here virge?

I will get some vid after the mrs gets home doing the mr mom thing atm


This may be a stupid qusetion but i'll ask it anyway do you mean 1 oclock when i look in a mirror or 1 oclock when i am swinging looking forward, i did the latter

razaar
19th February 2009, 02:17 PM
This may be a stupid qusetion but i'll ask it anyway do you mean 1 oclock when i look in a mirror or 1 oclock when i am swinging looking forward, i did the latter

Arms at 10.30, clubhead at 1.00 with clock behind you. The takeaway will involve a rotation of the arms (clockwise) and the right wrist bent back on itself with a flat left wrist. The rotation of the forearms will get the thumbs pointing upwards which will point the butt of the shaft inside the ball position and feet. To achieve this you will have to turn your shoulders and arms in a one piece takeaway with a suspicion of lift past hip high. This is a turn and lift not a lift and turn which you have been doing. The lift and turn has the shaft angle on takeaway outside the ball position with the clubhead subjected to the pull of gravity (can feel it pulling down on the hands) while the club is still going back, which leads to casting from the top. Conversely there is no gravity or weight felt when the shaft points between the feet and the ball position. I consider it important to have the arm plane higher than the shoulder plane. For one it allows you to keep the club in front of you (and not get stuck behind in the downswing) and to give the arms a running start before the shoulders start to open. Its a four horse race to get back to the ball, the hips should always get there first with the right shoulder, hands and clubhead arriving at the same time.

zigwah
19th February 2009, 03:38 PM
Ok, here is my "shortened" version of my swing i tried so hard to have hands at shoulder height but shaftshaft was no where near 1 oclock.

Why do i find it so hard to stop that shaft going over, is it wrist **** or shithouse shoulder turn or am i thinking too much again;)

I seem to be very inconsistent with this swing i'll hit the first one fat then the second one skinny and make good contact with the third which is most like a big slice :oops:

I may have been hitting balls too long, i may have a day or two off, as i have been hitting balls basically all day for 3 weeks :roll: and starting to get aching hands cause there not used to it all lol weak prick

Anyways here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE2qRoCzJCg

P.S Are you sick of me yet Virge and razaar?

zigwah
19th February 2009, 07:01 PM
I couldn't help my self and found that i needed to sit on the toilet more and that solved the movement of my legs and hips early :)

PeteyD
19th February 2009, 07:13 PM
Virge will never be sick of you. he is born to help and is good at it. In his special long winded manner

zigwah
19th February 2009, 07:16 PM
That's good to know cause im really in the shit now lol

zigwah
19th February 2009, 07:23 PM
Bow down and praise the golfing lords, i just hit a draw with a 6 iron, oh and you too Virge :smt038:smt038:smt038:smt038:smt038:smt038:smt038: smt038:smt038:smt038

It was pretty poor contact out of the toe, but a draw none the less

virge666
19th February 2009, 08:57 PM
Virge will never be sick of you. he is born to help and is good at it. In his special long winded manner


Thanks . . . I think . . .

:)

virge666
19th February 2009, 08:58 PM
Arms at 10.30, clubhead at 1.00 with clock behind you. The takeaway will involve a rotation of the arms (clockwise) and the right wrist bent back on itself with a flat left wrist.

Perfectly said mate.

zigwah
20th February 2009, 05:49 PM
Getting closer too, what i want to get closer too, couple of draws and a few straight ones today, driver still all over the place but feels like i'm not all that far away from hitting straight, I'd keep it in the bag but whats the point if i don't hi, I love the big dog has always been my fav club and always will be. Thanx for getting me this far Virge

zigwah
21st February 2009, 08:17 PM
Hit a few driver into the paddock today gettingmore of a fade now not so much a slice, i tried something i read in the artical razaar posted about a lot of amatuers not open their hips enough on the downswing, i looked at a lot of the vids i have posted and in all of them in most cases my hips were still facing forward at and in some cases well after impact, it seemed to help a little

virge666
21st February 2009, 08:23 PM
Where are your vids ?

zigwah
21st February 2009, 08:25 PM
the you tube links is that what you mean?

zigwah
21st February 2009, 08:28 PM
Ok, here is my "shortened" version of my swing i tried so hard to have hands at shoulder height but shaftshaft was no where near 1 oclock.

Why do i find it so hard to stop that shaft going over, is it wrist **** or shithouse shoulder turn or am i thinking too much again;)

I seem to be very inconsistent with this swing i'll hit the first one fat then the second one skinny and make good contact with the third which is most like a big slice :oops:

I may have been hitting balls too long, i may have a day or two off, as i have been hitting balls basically all day for 3 weeks :roll: and starting to get aching hands cause there not used to it all lol weak prick

Anyways here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE2qRoCzJCg

P.S Are you sick of me yet Virge and razaar?

or do you mean 10 and 1 vids if so this is it here it wasnt close to what you wanted and i habent done any video for a few days just swinging practicing the things you said i needed to work on.

virge666
21st February 2009, 08:35 PM
Please tell me what is on the ground 3ft in front of you that you INSIST on watching.

Whats wrong with the ball ?

Head up and chest to the target please.

zigwah
21st February 2009, 08:45 PM
I dont know, maybe the ball bouncing back of the net dunno, not sure i understand what you mean by that.

With getting my chest to the ball i'm not entirely sure, as i have always just hit the ball, good hand eye coordination, if my shoulders are rotating properly, can that be why i am having finishing facingthe target?

I have been practicing that though just not sure if i'm practicing the right thing.

virge666
21st February 2009, 08:51 PM
Go and hit some balls and answer a couple of Q's.

Hit some balls with moving you upper body, and then hit some with just your arms. Exagerate it move your body so much it feels stupid, then do the same but without using your upper body at all.

Have a guess what shot shape you have if you don't continue to move your upper body through impact.

zigwah
21st February 2009, 08:55 PM
that's a block sort of isnt it? i guess a push right or a duck hook if your hands really close through impact?

zigwah
21st February 2009, 08:59 PM
i feel at the moment my swingis like one of those clowns mouths at the show, you know the ones you put balls into their mouths, my whole body though, i'm finding it really hard at getting unstuck, but it will happen it's just a mattter of time and getting my head around some more stuff.

zigwah
21st February 2009, 09:03 PM
i would hit some balls now, to find for sure but the net is right outside the babies window

virge666
21st February 2009, 09:15 PM
OK,

Lets go back and tic and you can do some eval of your own. Look at your old swing and look at the last swing you posted.

What differences do you see. Play spot the difference.

zigwah
21st February 2009, 09:26 PM
Without looking at any of the previous swings the things that stand out to me are my follow through still looks the same,swinging more with my arms now,my body doesn't sway as much and i still have that irritating bit right at the transition to my downswing with my hands , how the f*** do i stop that.This bit, i think is a massive problem.

My bottom half is a bit more passive

Club is closer to parallel

My shoulder turn is less

May even have a little less club head speed

I looked at the iron shot in the last utube vid

zigwah
22nd February 2009, 09:13 AM
Go and hit some balls and answer a couple of Q's.

Hit some balls with moving you upper body, and then hit some with just your arms. Exagerate it move your body so much it feels stupid, then do the same but without using your upper body at all.

Have a guess what shot shape you have if you don't continue to move your upper body through impact.

Well i just gave it a crack Virge and swinging wildly i hit the ball mosstly on top and a couple straght ones

swinging with just my arms i was getting shanks.

dan
22nd February 2009, 09:41 AM
Please tell me what is on the ground 3ft in front of you that you INSIST on watching.

Whats wrong with the ball ?

Head up and chest to the target please.

Zig, Shawn clement is a good instructor to watch.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3554/posture.jpg

Russ
22nd February 2009, 10:37 AM
Virge .... I have a quick question for you if you don't mind.


Considering the extra length of a Driver over Irons, is there anything that needs to be changed (other than how close you are to the ball), or should your swing be the same regardless of the club you use?

zigwah
22nd February 2009, 12:16 PM
Zig, Shawn clement is a good instructor to watch.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3554/posture.jpg

Thanx for putting me onto this guy :) watching some of his vids has really crystalised all the stuff Virge has been saying.

markTHEblake
22nd February 2009, 01:12 PM
I dont know, maybe the ball bouncing back of the net dunno, not sure i understand what you mean by that.

i cant help feeling that you are scared of hitting the ball through the net, cos there is definitely no power in that follow through.

Dont misunderstand me though, you should not try to hit harder, what Virge is telling you will fix that automatically.

But if hitting the houses down the street through or missing that net is scaring you, do not hit balls there again, you dont want your subconscious restricting your swing. I know cos it happened to me when i was a kid, missed the net with a driver :oops: couldnt hit balls there again.

zigwah
22nd February 2009, 01:21 PM
i cant help feeling that you are scared of hitting the ball through the net, cos there is definitely no power in that follow through.

Dont misunderstand me though, you should not try to hit harder, what Virge is telling you will fix that automatically.

But if hitting the houses down the street through or missing that net is scaring you, do not hit balls there again, you dont want your subconscious restricting your swing. I know cos it happened to me when i was a kid, missed the net with a driver :oops: couldnt hit balls there again.

Nah it's nothing like that Mark there's 300 metres clear behind that net, i think i'm just struggling a bit with the changes Virge has me doing, and your right it looks like there is no power there.

I have been practicing dilligently sp? for the last 2 days so next time i post a vid hopefully fingers crossed it will look much better and i will have power to burn.

I use the net most times and when i wanna see where they're going i hit a bunch of balls into the paddock and go in search.

I'll see if i can get some footage tonight.

virge666
22nd February 2009, 03:01 PM
Considering the extra length of a Driver over Irons, is there anything that needs to be changed (other than how close you are to the ball), or should your swing be the same regardless of the club you use?

The laws of physics do not change depending on what club you have in your hands. The main reason people ask this question is that they have not yet learnt how to release the hands correctly, so they are using there upper body to generate clubhead speed instead of the hands. (Another reason why training with a driver is bloody pointless)

Think of it this way . . . the game is hard enough trying to get one swing right - why would you want to add more ?

virge666
22nd February 2009, 03:08 PM
I'll see if i can get some footage tonight.

I would like you to go back a few steps. What I see is not much difference between your first swing and you latest swing. We seem to get a change done - and then that change is ignored for the next change.

So lets go back to the swing where you head stayed a little more over the ball and you didn;t move your head back a foot or so on the backswing.

Use a 7 or 6 iron, i really don't give a shit about your driver. if you cannot hit a 37" club half decent, what hope have you got with a 46" one ?

Lets see you start to galvanise some of the moves.

Check list for you.

1. The head DOES NOT move back on the backswing.
2. The clubshaft DOES NOT go anywhere near parallel - 1 o'clock at the most.
3. The hands DO NOT go above the shoulders.
4. Both Chest and shoulders face the target on the follow-through.

Start at the top and work your way down... Use a mirror a LOT !

virge666
22nd February 2009, 03:10 PM
Zig, Shawn clement is a good instructor to watch.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3554/posture.jpg


Nice one Dan . . . once more I mention the word POSTURE !

Russ
22nd February 2009, 03:54 PM
The laws of physics do not change depending on what club you have in your hands. The main reason people ask this question is that they have not yet learnt how to release the hands correctly, so they are using there upper body to generate clubhead speed instead of the hands. (Another reason why training with a driver is bloody pointless)

Think of it this way . . . the game is hard enough trying to get one swing right - why would you want to add more ?

Thought as much. Just wanted to be sure before I hit the range again and made myself look even more foolish. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

zigwah
22nd February 2009, 10:32 PM
Just posted a new vid, actually was in the process of getting done when i read your post about going back a few steps, so this might irritate you a bit, but then again it may not, i think it's much better, but i know shit from clay atm.

anyway its one swing 7 iron, hit it ok i just need to maintain my spine angle better and i swayed a little.

One thing i did change today was to really strengthen my left hand grip, like 3 or 4 knuckles, and try and keep my spine angle the same all the way through the swing.

I went and hit some drivers into the paddock, sorry Virge. And the first one i hit was a massive duck hook, the next the usual big slice but then the start to straighten up moving to a fade then to a beautiful looking draw for the last few balls, and man did it motor, yup 3 it's not the club :) anyway it has given me a refreshed outlook, as i was really starting to get frustrated.

Do you still want me to go back a few steps Virge?, i really have been trying to keep my head up and chest out, it just takes a bit longer to sink in, just because it takes a bit to ingrain please don't take it that i'm not listening :)


(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwI3nYPvZsU)

dan
23rd February 2009, 08:32 AM
You've gotten skinnier.

Is that a water sprinkler in the background?

zigwah
23rd February 2009, 08:41 AM
skinnier huh? Just looked at it everything is stretched out for some reason

Yeah the fairway needed a water

razaar
23rd February 2009, 01:30 PM
Virge .... I have a quick question for you if you don't mind.


Considering the extra length of a Driver over Irons, is there anything that needs to be changed (other than how close you are to the ball), or should your swing be the same regardless of the club you use?

Bloody hell I feel like Virge's twin (suicidal twin kills brother by mistake).... Russ and you too Ziggy, the golden rule for setting up to the ball is posture first, then grip and stance (distance and alignment). The other thing about posture is to keep in mind that it has two aims- to create the correct back angle to be maintained throughout and to create space for the left legto work correctly through impact and maintain good balance.

Distance from the ball is determined by where you hang your arms in the address position. Some players have their hands directly under their chin while others have then under the shoulders. Because the plane of your driver swing will be flatter & more rounded than the planes of your swings with the other clubs it is sometimes preferable to have the hands directly under the chin at address with the driver. I read somewhere that Greg Norman always checked that his hands blocked out his left instep at address.

zigwah
23rd February 2009, 01:30 PM
Didn't like the quality of the vid i posted last night so i did another today where you can see things a bit better. Didn't chop it this time though, so it's just the usual series of swings. It's ok i don't spend long over the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNNQjhVc1gM

virge666
23rd February 2009, 02:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNNQjhVc1gM


Yep, much better quality - pretty awful swings though.

zigwah
23rd February 2009, 02:08 PM
Damn i thought they were getting better :(

Can you tell me Virge do you think the reason my club goes past parallel is my spine tilt is wrong or i am swinging too shallow or c none of the above.

I really want to get this sorted especially the club going so far over, i swing and i think that feels short, i look at the clip and it's still way over

In those lot of swings i thought my head stayed oook not dead still but ok

My hips didn't move sideways on my backswing

my chest was facing the target at finish

I'm not sure i entirely understand how far you want my chest out a address.

Thanx for any critisims sp?

virge666
23rd February 2009, 04:46 PM
You seriously cannot be this stupid - last chance.



Check list for you.

1. The head DOES NOT move back on the backswing.
2. The clubshaft DOES NOT go anywhere near parallel - 1 o'clock at the most.
3. The hands DO NOT go above the shoulders.
4. Both Chest and shoulders face the target on the follow-through.

Start at the top and work your way down... Use a mirror a LOT !


Notice how it doesn't say - "strengthen your left hand grip, go outside and hit the driver in a paddock . ."

dan
23rd February 2009, 06:00 PM
5. Don't hit so close to the net.

virge666
23rd February 2009, 07:04 PM
5. Don't hit so close to the net.


He is a bit "attuned" to the hosel shot, maybe not such a bad idea being next to it. :)

zigwah
23rd February 2009, 07:42 PM
You seriously cannot be this stupid - last chance.



Notice how it doesn't say - "strengthen your left hand grip, go outside and hit the driver in a paddock . ."

No, i'm not stupid, i used to be, a long time ago.

I have been practicing the things you suggested but i do have things out of my control that may take myself a little longer to achieve if ever, which i won't be sooking about in an open forum, but none the less i have been trying.

I found out a long time ago, never ever take only one persons word as gospel, it has done me no harm trying different things, and in the future who knows where it will go.

i have been trying to do all things asked of me, and yes everything has not stuck and has gone backwards, isn't that how we learn.

So i will keep on practicing the things you have suggested and if i am not moving in the direction you think i should be moving or not fast enough, and you do not want to offer your advice anymore i understand.

Zig

dan
23rd February 2009, 09:47 PM
He is a bit "attuned" to the hosel shot, maybe not such a bad idea being next to it. :)
Ah but he's surrounded by lush green paddock. I'd be using my driver all day too! :smt083

virge666
23rd February 2009, 10:26 PM
i have been trying to do all things asked of me, and yes everything has not stuck and has gone backwards, isn't that how we learn.


No, you haven't and No - it isn't.

You get better by doing things correctly - not by getting distracted on whatever takes your fancy one afternoon. Hence the reason you end up with people who will watch any DVD on golf and reckon it is the best thing ever only to change it 4 weeks later when the novelty has worn off or "I took it as far as I could" or "It didn't suit me" or "it didn't feel natural"

if you want to get better - put some yards in actually doing drills and working on your pattern. Otherwise, if you want to go outside and see what swing you have brought with you today - then that's OK too. but, don't kid yourself with that BS excuse you typed out.

Golf is a bloody hard game to play well. You need a plan, you need practice and you need goals. Otherwise you will just be another chopper out there bashing balls.

Up to you.

< Rant over >

henno
23rd February 2009, 10:29 PM
< Rant over >

Your rants are never really over, are they? You just hit the pause button for another day or two. ;)

P.S. I look forward to the continuation of this rant in due time. 8)

virge666
23rd February 2009, 11:03 PM
Your rants are never really over, are they? You just hit the pause button for another day or two. ;)

P.S. I look forward to the continuation of this rant in due time. 8)


To be honest - i only have 4 rants.

-The main one being the about Leigh Diffy, I f*cking hate him.
-The second one about how the golfclub head has to be selected before the shaft.
-This one about golf teaching is more about the player actually putting some work in other than whatever method you choose to follow, and that almost every method has exactly the same fundimentals.
-The last one about the release of the golf club is the most important part of the golf swing. You get that right and 95% of the job is done.

But thanks for caring ... and they are getting shorter though . . . :)

haysey
24th February 2009, 09:22 AM
-The second one about how the golfclub head has to be selected before the shaft.




So, at the risk of provoking another rant:smt064


Which should come first? club head or shaft. I'm curious now....

razaar
24th February 2009, 10:18 AM
OK Ziggy, just so you don't totally get the shits and cease this crazy thread, this might help with getting to where Virge wants your top of the swing position.
Before you swing back take note of where the butt of the shaft points to your body. Now using this hands body relationship as a reference turn your shoulders and upper body with the hands still pointing to the same point on your body; keep turning and stop when the point of reference changes. The feeling is that the lower body hasn't moved ( it may have but the feeling is that it hasn't). Now post only that on u-tube and give us a look.

virge666
24th February 2009, 02:04 PM
So, at the risk of provoking another rant:smt064

Which should come first? club head or shaft. I'm curious now....

Always the head - the head gives you spin rate and launch. You then tune this with the shaft. If you cannot get the close to the right numbers with the head you have choosen, then you have the wrong head.

The shaft just doesn't shift the numbers enough to be the first choice.

PeteyD
24th February 2009, 04:13 PM
Is that only with driver?

Iain
24th February 2009, 05:14 PM
You should move to QLD Virge!!

virge666
24th February 2009, 05:25 PM
Is that only with driver?


Nah mate - everything.

Out of everything you pick when choosing clubs - the head is the most important as it serves most of your senses. how it looks, sounds and feels comes from the head - with the shaft supplimenting this.

If you get the head wrong - your screwed.

if you get the shaft wrong - your out maybe a degree in launch and 500rpm in spin. Not really a big deal is it...

zigwah
24th February 2009, 08:07 PM
Still practicing, won't upload anything until it is good enough, i don't give up easy :)

virge666
24th February 2009, 08:41 PM
Still practicing, won't upload anything until it is good enough, i don't give up easy :)

Bloody sensational news.

If you put the work in - I will help all the way.

zigwah
25th February 2009, 07:34 PM
Quick question Virge.

Does the shoulder turn need to be full in a golf swing?

Could this be where i'm tripping up with my overswing, when i'm swinging, i'm trying to turn my shoulders as far as they will go.

how closely related are the shoulder turn and coil? As in does it matter how much shoulder turn you have as long as you have coiled correctly

Are these all the same question?


Thanx

Zig

henno
25th February 2009, 07:44 PM
I am a swing-gumby, but how can one coil without shoulder turn?

Jarro
25th February 2009, 07:49 PM
I am a swing-gumby, but how can one coil without shoulder turn?

You can't.

Coil is the resistance formed between the hips and the shoulders.

I think :-s

henno
25th February 2009, 07:53 PM
You can't.

Coil is the resistance formed between the hips and the shoulders.

I think :-s

Exactly my thoughts. Which is why zigwah's question had me stumped.

zigwah
25th February 2009, 08:09 PM
I'm not saying you don't need shoulder turn, i'm asking if am turning too much or if you can turn too much for what is needed to get a powerful coil.

virge666
25th February 2009, 10:11 PM
Silly Question and not important.

zigwah
25th February 2009, 10:13 PM
ok

razaar
25th February 2009, 10:19 PM
I am a swing-gumby, but how can one coil without shoulder turn?
lay on your back, knees & feet in the air, lower legs to the right - presto a coil without turning yur shoulders.:mrgreen:

PeteyD
25th February 2009, 10:22 PM
But the shoulders still turn relatively.

zigwah
28th February 2009, 04:45 PM
coming along, nearly ready for a new arsehole virge bout another week or i reckon :)

virge666
28th February 2009, 04:58 PM
coming along, nearly ready for a new arsehole virge bout another week or i reckon :)

Ha . . .

You have the checklist - it is up to you to put the mechanics into feel.

zigwah
28th February 2009, 05:12 PM
i'm getting there, just havin a bit of fun, the hard one is stopping my head moving

virge666
28th February 2009, 05:30 PM
i'm getting there, just havin a bit of fun, the hard one is stopping my head moving

That one is an easy fix. Ask me questions on what you are having probs with i usually can help.

to stop the head moving you can ...

- (ock / Load the hands early (shutup 3od)
- Take the club back more open - ie : Toe in the air.
- Take the club back with your right palm pointing more skyward. like holding a TV remote control
- Keep the head OVER the ball.

Enjoy

zigwah
28th February 2009, 05:32 PM
cheers, getting there

markTHEblake
28th February 2009, 06:11 PM
- Take the club back with your right palm pointing more skyward. like holding a TV remote control

There goes that Hogan book again !


Its actually interesting to try to hit a ball underhanded, like trying to karate chop the ball with your right palm facing the sky. flush it every time

jorjax
28th February 2009, 06:22 PM
Ever tried dropping the hands down at the top of backswing,could be something to try,I think it helps to avoid OTT move.

virge666
28th February 2009, 09:04 PM
There goes that Hogan book again !

Its actually interesting to try to hit a ball underhanded, like trying to karate chop the ball with your right palm facing the sky. flush it every time

Welcome to the base theory of Gary Edwin.

If you manage not to slide the lower half - it is just pure.

virge666
28th February 2009, 09:05 PM
Ever tried dropping the hands down at the top of backswing,could be something to try,I think it helps to avoid OTT move.

Nice idea - but that all depends on where the lower half is and where he is dropping the hands from... doesn't it.

TGM 10.2A and 10.2B. Straight line delivery path.

:)

PeteyD
28th February 2009, 09:08 PM
I am gonna have to stop reading all these threads, my head ios so full of crap that I am soing the worlds most retarded swings lately.

zigwah
28th February 2009, 10:34 PM
I am gonna have to stop reading all these threads, my head ios so full of crap that I am soing the worlds most retarded swings lately.

Don't look you'll turn itnto a choppa :)

PeteyD
28th February 2009, 10:37 PM
Already gone beyond choppa, graduating to farmer now.

jorjax
28th February 2009, 10:55 PM
Nice idea - but that all depends on where the lower half is and where he is dropping the hands from... doesn't it.

TGM 10.2A and 10.2B. Straight line delivery path.

:)

Virge,Im hesitant to refer to TGM fearing angst from the guys here,but as Im talking to you it should be OK.
Trust me ,Im not here push TGM at all,unfortunately its probably the only lingo I can use as I dont know any other system.
Back to topic,
The way I see this "drop",is dropping the hands to elbow plane,please correct me if Im wrong,mate,Im not a pro ,just a pupil.
I think I came across it on another forum,I have tried it and feels very strong,feels odd at first but I get good compression when I use it with swinging,but my back isnt up to the job.
For me to use it I find that my shoulders must be square if not R/shoulder back a tad from square,again I would say this is probably not for everyone,thats a given.Thanks. Sorry for thread-hijack,thought it might help Ziggy

zigwah
28th February 2009, 11:04 PM
My back is rooted, so it probably wouldn't help me but thanx for the suggestion, i doubt i'll ever be able to rip it again :(

jorjax
28th February 2009, 11:09 PM
My back is rooted, so it probably wouldn't help me but thanx for the suggestion, i doubt i'll ever be able to rip it again :(
Mat..e,never say never,you can still rip-em,I dare say virge can show you how.
We both will never reach 300 mark,but who cares,just hit them better and straighter is the way to go

zigwah
28th February 2009, 11:22 PM
Golf is therapy atm for me so just enjoying being out and about again

virge666
1st March 2009, 05:48 PM
For me to use it I find that my shoulders must be square if not R/shoulder back a tad from square,again I would say this is probably not for everyone,thats a given.Thanks. Sorry for thread-hijack,thought it might help Ziggy

Yes - you are sort of right.

It is the basic dowel drill that the two Pauls would have taught you. The trouble with Ziggy is that on the backswing he starts way too inside and this pulls his whole upper body around to the right and inside. Check his vids.

Dropping the hands to the elbow plane from this far inside promotes a snap hook and a flip.

What he needs here is a bit of extensior action and getting the clubshaft up to the turned shoulder plane first and then he can drop it down the plane and add a hinge action of choice.

Whatcha think of that ?

jorjax
1st March 2009, 07:41 PM
Yes - you are sort of right.

It is the basic dowel drill that the two Pauls would have taught you. The trouble with Ziggy is that on the backswing he starts way too inside and this pulls his whole upper body around to the right and inside. Check his vids.

Dropping the hands to the elbow plane from this far inside promotes a snap hook and a flip.

What he needs here is a bit of extensior action and getting the clubshaft up to the turned shoulder plane first and then he can drop it down the plane and add a hinge action of choice.

Whatcha think of that ?

Virge,I totally agree with you regarding the takeaway,problem for sure,I actually used LBs dowel drills,with the 2 pauls I take it you are referring to torch drills re-takeaway,doesnt matter both are good IMO.

That simple error is leading to a host of problems. One is that where he is at the top,and his startdown he has absolutly "no room to move" ,he really cannot have any chance to pivot,as you can see he actually has to keep his R/hip back in order to have any clearance between arms and torso.
The rest of his swing through is just a 'Domino effect",one bad thing is leading to another bad thing,your comment on extensor action is on the money too.
The mere fact that Zig has put his video up in public is a sure sign he is really willing to learn,Im betting he will,and good on him.
Go ZIG ,"TRUST" virge he will get you there

virge666
1st March 2009, 09:06 PM
One is that where he is at the top,and his startdown he has absolutly "no room to move" ,he really cannot have any chance to pivot,as you can see he actually has to keep his R/hip back in order to have any clearance between arms and torso.


Nice comment mate - that will be the next bit after his backswing gets back on plane. We cannot add that yet as the hips have to be level for this to work. Trying to do this now will surely cause problems.

Nice work though.

zigwah
10th March 2009, 05:43 PM
Well this is where i have got to in my swing i hope there is improvement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Ar4k92NQk

virge666
10th March 2009, 10:38 PM
Well this is where i have got to in my swing i hope there is improvement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Ar4k92NQk


to stop the head moving you can ...

- (ock / Load the hands early (shutup 3od)
- Take the club back more open - ie : Toe in the air.
- Take the club back with your right palm pointing more skyward. like holding a TV remote control
- Keep the head OVER the ball.

razaar
17th March 2009, 04:27 PM
Zig....an advanced player's swing is performed at a pace which could be described as progressive acceleration. The backswing is leisurely with the speed increasing as the swing progresses, the fastest segment being the impact to finish.
The golf swing is governed by the "Law of Physics" most of which concern circular motion. The one I see may be causing you problems is the law of inertia. This law governs moving the clubhead from its static position at address and from the top of the swing. Photos show that a clubhead at rest behind the ball requires force to bend a regular flex shaft to overcome inertia before the clubhead begins to move. Once mobile, the clubhead which didn't want to move is now reluctant to stop. Yet it must stop at the top of the backswing before it can change direction. Looking at your swing, I can see a collapse at the top. It should be a feeling of setting the club at the top. Does this make any sense to you?

The best way to deal with inertia, I have found, is to lift the clubhead off the ground, ensuring that the full weight of the club is supported by the hands before commencing the backswing.
From the top, unless you have very strong hands , the best way is via a slight movement of the left knee towards the target in transfering weight from the right foot to the left foot.

zigwah
17th March 2009, 05:21 PM
Zig....an advanced player's swing is performed at a pace which could be described as progressive acceleration. The backswing is leisurely with the speed increasing as the swing progresses, the fastest segment being the impact to finish.
The golf swing is governed by the "Law of Physics" most of which concern circular motion. The one I see may be causing you problems is the law of inertia. This law governs moving the clubhead from its static position at address and from the top of the swing. Photos show that a clubhead at rest behind the ball requires force to bend a regular flex shaft to overcome inertia before the clubhead begins to move. Once mobile, the clubhead which didn't want to move is now reluctant to stop. Yet it must stop at the top of the backswing before it can change direction. Looking at your swing, I can see a collapse at the top. It should be a feeling of setting the club at the top. Does this make any sense to you?

The best way to deal with inertia, I have found, is to lift the clubhead off the ground, ensuring that the full weight of the club is supported by the hands before commencing the backswing.
From the top, unless you have very strong hands , the best way is via a slight movement of the left knee towards the target in transfering weight from the right foot to the left foot.

Yes that all makes sense to me.

Since starting back at golf in january, after a lengthy layoff, i have been having problems starting the backswing and the transition from backswing to downswing.

I'm hoping it will become better over time with practice and more time, it gets frustrating not being able to hit the ball like i used too.

I'm only able to play 9 holes atm so the on course stuff is being stifled a bit.

zigwah
17th March 2009, 06:01 PM
Anyway, heres where i am at, i've given up trying to shorten the swing and all i'm worried about is keep my bloody melon still, not perfect yet but it's closer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rfxd5jP2qs

Russ
17th March 2009, 06:16 PM
Zig ... ever thought about getting lessons from a Pro?

Reading what I'm suppose to be doing, then going out and trying it into a net without any 'live' guidance would drive me bonkers.

dan
17th March 2009, 07:45 PM
Much better finish..... And love the hippy shirt!

virge666
18th March 2009, 01:12 PM
Can I get a shot down the line please...

and as mentioned it is NOT about keeping the head still it is about getting your backswing on plane - this will in turn keep the head still.

You backswing is WAY to inside. WAY WAY WAY to inside - this pulls you off the ball and hence the head movement.

Fix the backswing - and you fix the head.

zigwah
18th March 2009, 05:01 PM
Ok here is one down the line it still looks like shite, but i seem to be striking it better, go figure.

I have absolutley no clue how to stop the over swing, i practice looking in the window, fine, but as soon as the video goes on bang way over.

Oh and guess what i seem to have stopped shanking the ball, can anyone tell me why that may be? :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EkAI3K6UxE

Russ
18th March 2009, 07:18 PM
Mate, your backswing is huuuuuge!

razaar
18th March 2009, 08:16 PM
Hold a wood cover under your left arm pit, keeping it in place by pressure of your upper arm against the left edge of your pec muscle. The wood cover is to remain there through the back swing and just past impact. Have a practice and post a video of that.

virge666
18th March 2009, 10:18 PM
Hold a wood cover under your left arm pit, keeping it in place by pressure of your upper arm against the left edge of your pec muscle. The wood cover is to remain there through the back swing and just past impact. Have a practice and post a video of that.


Sensational drill !

Zig - send me that video to my email please mate and I will show the problem that both Raz and I see.

Golfnut
18th March 2009, 10:24 PM
Hold a wood cover under your left arm pit, keeping it in place by pressure of your upper arm against the left edge of your pec muscle. The wood cover is to remain there through the back swing and just past impact. Have a practice and post a video of that.

Wow!....forgot that one....one of the pro's down at my usual spending outlet gave me this advice (along with a few other pointers) to help cure my slice which I used to good effect but in time I have totally forgotten about it....thanks razaar, will be putting this back into practice tommorow.

virge666
18th March 2009, 10:47 PM
Wow!....forgot that one....one of the pro's down at my usual spending outlet gave me this advice (along with a few other pointers) to help cure my slice which I used to good effect but in time I have totally forgotten about it....thanks razaar, will be putting this back into practice tommorow.


Just remember to use half-3/4 swings. You can use a glove, a headcover and towel... and it is the LEFT armpit for right handers. Do not stick it under the right armpit ala Vijay.

henno
19th March 2009, 06:15 AM
Razaar, you should collate a list of of these drills for a thread of it's own. "Cure what ales ya: Razaar's drills to fix everything".

razaar
19th March 2009, 09:57 AM
henno...just a heap of trivia that needs to come out. May help somebody, it can't help me anymore - too old and creaky.

Golfnut
19th March 2009, 09:35 PM
Just remember to use half-3/4 swings. You can use a glove, a headcover and towel... and it is the LEFT armpit for right handers. Do not stick it under the right armpit ala Vijay.

Although I had a bit of a shocker today (couldn't buy a putt or hit my 3 wood again)....I did use this to good effect (when I remembered to of course :x).....when used the shots came away cleanly off the irons and for some reason had extra distance too.....hit a couple of 4 iron shots off the deck close to 170m today, straight with some excellent height. My normal 4iron distance is about 150-155m.

Shorter irons where getting some awesome height too which only improves their stopping power :)

henno
19th March 2009, 09:44 PM
henno...just a heap of trivia that needs to come out. May help somebody, it can't help me anymore - too old and creaky.

It could be a smörgåsbord of tips; there are bound to be more than a few tasty morcels.

virge666
28th March 2009, 10:18 PM
As promised mate - apologies for the delay.

Take away practice. Hogan once said - that the first 18" of the backswing was critical. Your 1st 18" needs work. :)

Enjoy

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Ziggy_takeAway.wmv

zigwah
29th March 2009, 08:05 PM
As promised mate - apologies for the delay.

Take away practice. Hogan once said - that the first 18" of the backswing was critical. Your 1st 18" needs work. :)

Enjoy

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Ziggy_takeAway.wmv

Thanx a heap virge, that was sensational!!! not the swing the instruction :smt038

edhannan
31st March 2009, 01:55 AM
Very nice instruction/vid re takeaway: simple, clear, effective. Thank you, Virge.
I've been making my takeaway in about 6 different directions, most resulting in a closed clubface and bad news thereafter. This should prove most helpful.

zigwah
13th April 2009, 05:20 PM
Well it's been a while, but this is where i'm up to.

Forget about the commentry, just blowing smoke up my own arse :)

I'm confused about planes now.

Do i want my swing to be on the same plane at address when it is at the top of my swing.

If so then would that be too upright, am standing too close to the ball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrgdcF6bCHo

henno
13th April 2009, 05:35 PM
Your clubhead is almost John Daly-ish in how far past parallel you come back.

Unless you are John Daly, this is generally not a good thing.