My swing journey

[zigwah]

new chapter in the journey, so i've been to hell now im going to pergutory

[razaar]

WTF...this thread has 500 posts?

[zigwah]

It has the makings of a book raz :)

[Yossarian]

Purgatory, because you are purging not perging.

[zigwah]

bowled shane.

[MegaWatty]

zigwah,

The time has come to ignore all advice previously posted on this thread, and to listen only to the words spoken by your chosen Pro. But remember these two quotes by ancient philosphers, whose wisdom will guide your forward on the path to swing righteousness :

Yoda from Star Wars:

"Do, or do not. There is no try."

and

Dalton from Roadhouse:

"It'll get worse before it gets better."

Good luck my friend.

:smt038

[Hamo84]

+2 for Jacks's Post

Best of luck with the lessons Zig

[zigwah]

-11 today, was quite close with my prediction of -10. Can't get much worse than that.

[Eag's]

Zig, I just clicked on your Golflink for the first time mate and I must say Jack is on the money, seek help now!!!
Don't waste money on new irons, save your money and book yourself at least 6 lessons with a decent Pro and get your game sorted out.

[zigwah]

Zig, I just clicked on your Golflink for the first time mate and I must say Jack is on the money, seek help now!!!
Don't waste money on new irons, save your money and book yourself at least 6 lessons with a decent Pro and get your game sorted out.

you must have missed the post about the lesson Eags.

[zigwah]

Bloody felt strange opening the stance up, felt like i was going to hit everything in the trees left but did only once, 1 down the middle, but mostly a slice but not as bad as previously was playable, really stuffed ap around the greens and in the bunkers today, thats where i usually scranble ok.

[Eag's]

Zig, I just clicked on your Golflink for the first time mate and I must say Jack is on the money, seek help now!!!
Don't waste money on new irons, save your money and book yourself at least 6 lessons with a decent Pro and get your game sorted out.

Nope saw that, only 5 more lessons to go ;)

[davepuppies]

If it were me, i would persist with current set of irons/wedges/woods for at least 12 months then reassess....

very hard to build a swing around continually changing clubs...

I have made that same commitment myself .... wont be changing my bag set up for a while and am doing the same thing as you Zig, a lesson every 2 weeks.....

[zigwah]

yeah,i wont be changing anything except may be add a hybrid, but i think that should make the game easier.

[zigwah]

reading scotts thread reminded me the pro i saw wants me to shorten my swing way way short, like having the club vertical is the top of my swing, says i can get way more power than i am currently generating, which i am looking forward to hitting it more solidly

[virge666]

You need to know how and why mate

how to swing short and how to generate power with a short swing.

Ask more questions.

[davepuppies]

My swing is very very short........ had my clubhead speed measured at 120mph...... so it can be done.....

[zigwah]

You need to know how and why mate

how to swing short and how to generate power with a short swing.

Ask more questions.

He did explain it

he said if i can get a solid base and swing within myself eventually at the top where he wants it's i will be able to hit as hard as i like.

He also said it wouldn't be hard to swing at 120 just as dave has mentioned from swinging way shorter.

[3oneday]

Swinging at 120 ? Not many pro's even swing that fast :confused:

[henno]

I'm sure that most pros could swing at 120, but choose not to because they prefer to see their ball go down the middle.

[virge666]

he said if i can get a solid base and swing within myself eventually at the top where he wants it's i will be able to hit as hard as i like.

He also said it wouldn't be hard to swing at 120 just as dave has mentioned from swinging way shorter.

That is not why - that is a story. It does not answer any questions at all.
In fact - what that says is that you should swing slower and then you will be able to hit the ball at 120mph. There is no explaination of how, there is no process and there is no plan.

The last sentence is just utter, utter bullshit.

There is a very simple and correct answer to swing length, and that is if you setup correctly and STAY in a good posture, you wont be able to swing it as far back you do now. Stop accepting stupid answers. Your Pro will know the proper answers. Spend more time talking.


Swinging at 120 ? Not many pro's even swing that fast :confused:

I know , but trust me - Dave is a very big strong lad.

[davepuppies]

The Taylormade rep was at the range last night with his launch monitor thing, and he gave me there new R9 supertri to have a hit with, and whilst we didnt measure my swing speed he said he would love to see what it was......

for reference i hit my 8 iron 150 metres on the fly all day every day, i am pretty sure that is pro distance.......

I dont swing the club anywhere near the full range of motion (mainly because i cant turn that far)

[davepuppies]

And Virge, had another lesson with Leon last night..... a few more changes...

we made my grip a little weaker to promote a flat left wrist as i was still flipping through impact.....

on the mats i was fine, but as soon as we went to the grass we found my stance was well left of taget, so we squared that up....

Last change was promoting a one piece takeaway keeping wrist flat (i know, different to what you and i have been working on) and than laying club off a little up top to get me flatter as on video i was very steep. Managed to get my draw back, and get rid of my huge divots.

[3oneday]

puppieboy, you might start your own Swing Journey thread, no one likes it when ziggys threads get off topic.

:lol:

[TheNuclearOne]

I know , but trust me - Dave is a very big strong lad.

By Zig's words the pro thinks he will reach 120, easy? I'd have to see it for Zig, that's some SERIOUS speed right there. I think Garcia's around that mark from memory.

[3oneday]

By Zig's words the pro thinks he will reach 120, easy?
maybe he meant the length of his drives ?


;)

[virge666]

By Zig's words the pro thinks he will reach 120, easy? I'd have to see it for Zig, that's some SERIOUS speed right there. I think Garcia's around that mark from memory.

Agreed - I like the "easily" comment. Complete tripe.

And anyway - swing speed means bugger all - Choppers quote swing speed all day, Ball speed is a very different matter and is WAY more relevant.


maybe he meant the length of his drives ?

;)

:) :) :)

[Johnny Canuck]

:smt038:smt038

[TheNuclearOne]

maybe he meant the length of his drives ?


;)

:lol:

I'm hearin' ya Virge.

[virge666]

I dont swing the club anywhere near the full range of motion (mainly because i cant turn that far)

The amount of turn is not important - look at JB Holmes.


Last change was promoting a one piece takeaway keeping wrist flat

Could be a semantics thing - as long as the right arm folds, you can call it whatever you like. If the right arm is straight - you cannot keep the kink in right side, which means you have to drive the legs and hips on the way down.

Anything that is straight cannot be used as a power source. Biomechanics 101.

[razaar]

My swing is very very short........ had my clubhead speed measured at 120mph...... so it can be done.....
It can...Cameron Smith a junior at my club has a short compact swing and swings the driver at 120mph. He is not a big lad either.

[zigwah]

second lesson today, practised shoulder turn, full, back towards target, cockwrists very late for me.

More of a round shoulder turn till the butt of the club point at the target.

Worked on hips not moving laterally.

See how i go tomorrow, hope i play somewhere near hcp, it's getting a bit frustrating.

[Johnny Canuck]

Patience.

Impressive, you got **** past the filter?

Cockhead. Just checking for future use.

[TheNuclearOne]

second lesson today, practised shoulder turn, full, back towards target, cockwrists very late for me.

More of a round shoulder turn till the butt of the club point at the target.

Worked on hips not moving laterally.

See how i go tomorrow, hope i play somewhere near hcp, it's getting a bit frustrating.

Two lessons and one week aren't often gonna get the job done Zig.

[zigwah]

29 points today, but it was a good 29 points if there is such a beast.

Off the tee i was shocking, 6 topped drivers left about 50 75 into the shit.

Putting, terrible 1x4 putt 4x3 stabs. rolled in 2 long ones.

3 fat chips

From the fairway, a lot better this saved my score along with the wedges.

7 wipes 3 on the front 4 on the back 15/14 29

So it's 29 points but it could have been a lot better.

Booked another lesson for 3 weeks time.

[dan]

Forget the course. Stick to the range and lessons.

[zigwah]

Forget the course. Stick to the range and lessons.

Thats no fun is it.

[markTHEblake]

Don't expect results tomorrow Zig, making real change usually has you going backwards a little before forwards, hopefully way forwards.

wrong. Results should be immediate, if not, you are doing it wrong.

[3oneday]

By Zig's words the pro thinks he will reach 120, easy?


maybe he meant the length of his drives ?


;)


Off the tee i was shocking, 6 topped drivers left about 50 75 into the shit.
;)

[TheNuclearOne]

wrong. Results should be immediate, if not, you are doing it wrong.


I've seen that bandied around by your namesake (last name) but have rarely seen it in action. Nick Faldo took over a year (i think it was) to finetune his admittedly large changes. You'll find plenty of debate on this one Blakey.

[sms316]

wrong. Results should be immediate, if not, you are doing it wrong.


I've seen that bandied around by your namesake (last name) but have rarely seen it in action. Nick Faldo took over a year (i think it was) to finetune his admittedly large changes. You'll find plenty of debate on this one Blakey.
Of course you should see immediate improvement. You may not find consistency straight away, but you should see something.

[TheNuclearOne]

;)

:smt046

[zigwah]

results have been mixed but encouraging

[markTHEblake]

Of course you should see immediate improvement. You may not find consistency straight away, but you should see something.

Absolutely spot on. Of course the assumption is that the coach does know what they are doing.

If someone gets a lesson and they are worse or no improvement by the end then they should ask for their money back.

[TheNuclearOne]

Of course you should see immediate improvement. You may not find consistency straight away, but you should see something.

When i first make sizable changes the ball goes all over the place for some time. I play worse while making changes and actually stay away from comp until things start coming together. The two coaches i have been too both said i needed to give it time to get things grooved and for my timing to adjust. I have seen one guy improve pronto, but he had never been taught and had some huge very basic setup errors. The difference was startling however.

I just don't believe it can be made as a blanket statement either way. A guy with great natural talent will often adjust faster than an unco obviously.

[markTHEblake]

When i first make sizable changes the ball goes all over the place for some time.

That means you are not doing it right. How could it be possible that you are doing it right and hitting the ball all over the place?



The two coaches i have been too both said i needed to give it time to get things grooved and for my timing to adjust.How then could you get things 'grooved' when you are not doing it right.
The second point is timing, if you are swinging correctly, the timing is largely irrelevent, however its very important when there are a lot of faults.

I'd suggest getting a new coach, those are just blanket statements that they give because they or you are not good enough to get it right. Thats not saying you only need one lesson though!

[TheNuclearOne]

I was told motor skills Blakey, it takes the brain and body time to adjust. To "do it right" i guess one could say. I'm open to what you're saying, it'd make a great debate in the right arena.

[zigwah]

Anyone seen this app for the iphone.

btw its hot here stop looking at my nipples

[Eldrick]

Anyone seen this app for the iphone.



I have it, but haven't bothered to set up yet to capture a full swing
is it any good?

[zigwah]

i only used it inside atm but it does a sequence quite well i thought

[edhannan]

Absolutely spot on. Of course the assumption is that the coach does know what they are doing.

If someone gets a lesson and they are worse or no improvement by the end then they should ask for their money back.

The statement suggests that if a student fails to perform better within an hour the fault lies with the instructor. Seems an unreasonable standard of judgment.
I'd argue that learning what to do and learning how to do it are different processes. The first might be quick but the second usually takes longer, unless the change in behaviour is quite simple. Offhand, I can't think of any "simple" changes in a golf swing. Even a small adjustment at address can affect all that follows. That is, one change usually results in several more.
I think most students need more than one session to translate correct information into correct performance.

[dan]

Thats no fun is it.
Neither is playing like a hacker and struggling to break a 100.

[virge666]

The statement suggests that if a student fails to perform better within an hour the fault lies with the instructor. Seems an unreasonable standard of judgment.


I am with Sean and Blakey.

if you are given a change - you should see immediate improvement, period. If you don't then you are doing the wrong thing or your coach is wrong for you.

BUT, improvement is just that, "improvement", Improvement is what you are working on. Be it accuracy or distance. NOT Both... everything in golf is a trade off of accuracy and distance. Don't ask for "consistency with a Driver" if you are not prepared to give up some distance.

If they are getting you to "groove" a new swing, then the changes have too much change, are incorrect or a based on hand eye co-ordination and in that case - you should run to a proper coach.

You should leave a lesson better than when you started the lesson. if you don't then why bother having the lesson ?

[edhannan]

"if you are given a change - you should see immediate improvement, period. If you don't then you are doing the wrong thing or your coach is wrong for you."

Disagreement likely stems from language here rather than actual situation. I think we would all agree that if the student faithfully applies the instruction and no improvement results, then the instruction is faulty.

My earlier comments are merely to say that teaching doesn't equal learning. For example, earlier in this thread, you "gave" some excellent instruction to Zig re posture and takeaway, but...

I don't teach golf, but I would guess a common problem is that students think/feel they are following instructions exactly, but in fact are not.

[GolfBallWhackerGuy]

Anyone seen this app for the iphone.

btw its hot here stop looking at my nipples


Gday Zig,
Im trying to get this app on my iPhone but it says that i need the iPhone 3.1 software update. Not sure how that works or how to get it bcoz Im not very good with modern technology :oops:. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers

[3oneday]

So you can look at his nipples ?

[virge666]

I don't teach golf, but I would guess a common problem is that students think/feel they are following instructions exactly, but in fact are not.

Yeah - I am with. The difference with golf is that a lot of student wont actually put the hard yards in. It is a hobby after all.

Zig is a good example, I spent at least 5 pages begging for him to sort out his posture and body angles... For mine - if you don't get the body right at the start, you are just in for a battle. He spent his time at the range working on whatever felt good to him and when he hit a few good shots, he thought he was getting better. That being said - his practice swing looked better last week.

So IMHO, it comes down to method/procedure/plan. My military upbringing says you have to have a plan and then you have to work the plan. If you don't have a plan - then you rely on stumbling across the right way to do it, and that takes too long.

Lastly is belief - driver height is a GREAT example of this. If I show a student how high they should hit their driver to make their ball work properly - they dead set look at me like I was their wife telling them how to play golf.

I have had a A grade Pennant player on a range with professional club fitters from Nike, Ping, Cally and Titleist all telling him he needs to hit the ball about 3 times higher with the ball he is using. Only to be told that he won't get any run. DavePuppies is madly looking for a harder driver to hit right now because he doesn't believe me in regards to height of the driver.

In conclusion - we have two problems. The technology of golf has changed to a point where older clubs are almost foreign, but the "traditions" have not. And secondly - it is a bloody hard game that most people are lucky to practice 1 hour a fortnight. Imagine learning a trade at 1 hour a fortnight...

The teaching/education process is rubbish too - but don't get me started on that.

:)

[virge666]

Gday Zig,
Im trying to get this app on my iPhone but it says that i need the iPhone 3.1 software update. Not sure how that works or how to get it bcoz Im not very good with modern technology :oops:. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers


Plug phone into Itunes and click the update software on the first page.

She will update you to the latest version.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5115482_update-iphone-software.html

[3oneday]

Who's journey is this ?

[Captain Nemo]

Obviously not mine!:smt038

[virge666]

Who's journey is this ?

It is Zig's journey . . . we are his caravan.

:horse:

[MegaWatty]

Gday Zig,
Im trying to get this app on my iPhone but it says that i need the iPhone 3.1 software update. Not sure how that works or how to get it bcoz Im not very good with modern technology :oops:. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers

Plug your phone into your pc, open iTunes and it should ask you if you want to download the latest software. Make sure
you're online at the time.

[GolfBallWhackerGuy]

Plug phone into Itunes and click the update software on the first page.

She will update you to the latest version.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5115482_update-iphone-software.html


Cheers Virge. Will give it a try.
Thanks also Mega.

[3oneday]

It is Zig's journey . . . we are his caravan.

:horse:

so he's riding you ?

[razaar]

so he's riding you ?
Being dragged behind, hey virge?;)

[virge666]

Being dragged behind, hey virge?;)


Yep - and not being fed either... :razz:

[zigwah]

Well, today i had a breakthrough of sorts.

I have never felt comfortable with my grip at the top of the swing and right back at the start of this thread virge tried to get me to strengthen my right hand grip.

Today i played 9 holes, 10,11,12,13,14 i went wipe 5/2 5/1 4/4 wipe for a total of 8 points

Standing on the 15 tee i was trying to get my grip comfortable, what i did was went to the top of my swing and stopped, felt ****ing terrible and i knew i had no hope in hell of getting the clubface back square at impact even if i swung on plane.

Anyway stopping at the top i moved my right hand until it felt comfortable, swung through and had a look at my grip, and what i was looking at was the grip that i imagine is pretty damn close to what virge wanted, and what raz had showed me on his visit here how the pro's square the face with the index finger and thumb

So i teed the ball up and swung and pulled it left, not badly but down the left side of the fairway straight.

walking to my ball, i thought that felt pretty good but i still pulled it, i guessed i was swinging a bit early from the top.

OK, so i am approaching my ball short off the dog leg, i can see the right bunker, i didn't have a shot at the green pin back left 15 maybe 25 yards from the bunker i can see, so my only option is if i want to hit the green is to take 4 wood draw it around the corner onto the green, pfffft i can't draw the ball, **** i wish i could at will though

I was pissed that i couldn't do it, so i thought **** it no time like the present to do so, I gripped a 6 iron exactly the same way as off the tee i aimed at the front of the bunker swung pretty good maintained posture and swung through to the bunker, the ball took off straight at the bunker and started drawing, i had to run in to the middle of the fairway to see it as it went in front of the trees, well, i missed the green by about 2 feet left i didn't know where it had finished but i was stoked how i had hit it.

I ended having a chip and 2 putts for a 5/2 but i didnt even feel bad about the chip left short, i had drawn a 6 iron.

16th tee, ok lets see if i can draw this ball, danger all the way down the right of the 16th a par 5.

Teed the ball up swung and i pulled it again but it was a strong ball through some trees and landing on the 14 tee and it was straight, got to the ball for my second, said to myself ok 8 iron over the shit 5 or 6 iron in, or take 4 wood hit it high draw it and land in front of the green ppfffft once again, but lets have a crack anyway i hit it high and drew it and left it short of the left bunker up and down for par 5/3 11 points. i thought i had found the ultimate secret, ok strolled to the 17th tee feeling confident a par 3 into the wind today about 170 to the front. i took a 4 wood tried to steer it to the green pulled it left straight behind the front bunker, wedge to 2 feet par 3/3 14 points.

Where had the magical swing gone? i gripped it right, but i came to the conclusion i didn't swing through to the target.

On the 18 tee pulled driver out tees are way up the front, gripped it practice swing aiming at the right had trees line felt good, addressed the ball then pulled the trigger went sailing for the trees on the right, but very quickly turned over and finshed in the middle of the fairway 8 iron in.

Get to my ball, can i can draw an 8 iron into the flag over the 3 traps on the right hand side, did everything the same let my posture go hit it fat, it and landed 20 metres short of the green, but it still drew :) chip and 2 putts 5/2 17 points.

Felt really good after the round and will practice what i learnt in the mirror tonight.

So shit 9 started bad and ended up drawing the ball. :)

good progress

[markTHEblake]

I was told motor skills Blakey, it takes the brain and body time to adjust. To "do it right" i guess one could say.

It definitely takes the brain and body time to adjust to keep doing it right.

However if you cant get it right during the lesson, what hope have you got of getting it right on your own.



The statement suggests that if a student fails to perform better within an hour the fault lies with the instructor. Seems an unreasonable standard of judgment.

It does doesn't it, but I would say half an hour is more than enough.

[3oneday]

Did you get it to 120 Zig ?

[zigwah]

Did you get it to 120 Zig ?

heck no!

[edhannan]

It definitely takes the brain and body time to adjust to keep doing it right.

However if you cant get it right during the lesson, what hope have you got of getting it right on your own.

It does doesn't it, but I would say half an hour is more than enough.

Zig reports that he is finally taking a correct grip. But the half hour is long past. Is Zig's improvement because of, in spite of or unrelated to the instruction that Virge and Raz gave him?

[razaar]

:smt017 THE END.

[Iain]

I wonder if he'll ever make it down to 7?!!

[Jarro]

Perhaps someone clever could finish the story for him ?

I sure hope it has a happy ending

[markTHEblake]

Zig reports that he is finally taking a correct grip.

So he wasnt taking the correct grip before then.


Is Zig's improvement because of, in spite of or unrelated to the instruction that Virge and Raz gave him?

Given that the instruction you are referring to was delivered by this forum, how could anyone tell.. He didnt send us live video updates.