My swing journey

[zigwah]

Your clubhead is almost John Daly-ish in how far past parallel you come back.

Unless you are John Daly, this is generally not a good thing.


yup, i'm sick of it and have no idea how to stop it, i try to swing short and feels short but then look at vid and it's still way over the top.

Are my wrists too flexible? and no i'm not gay.

[oncewasagolfer]

awesome instruction virge almost tempted to put my monstrosity of a swing up god knows I need help:)

[virge666]

Are my wrists too flexible? and no i'm not gay.

No - your left wrist is collapsing.

[zigwah]

Had a good look at that swing on the software u suggested virge, and i really noticed how far my hands, wrists and arms are going outside the line at take away, going to have a practice today and see what i can do about that.

Collapsing which way virge? say at the top of my swing i look at my left wrist, which way is it collapsing left or right?

Thanx

[Iain]

Look's like you're standing up through the shot as well....

Virge might mean that you're left wrist is bending back, try to keep it flat.

[virge666]

Virge might mean that you're left wrist is bending back, try to keep it flat.

Exactly.

Flat left wrist and swing FLATTER - WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY FLATTER.

And then more flatter... and then a touch more.

... and a bit more after that.

[zigwah]

Flatter, bugger me i have been getting steeper trying to get that club parrallel to the target at waist height and then straight up, which you pointed out in my last vid virge.

Back to square one doh!!

Just adding the latest swing and a special video of all the lovers of my bro I know i love him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGqM-0PK7nY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9s8KJwLWns

[razaar]

Bugger me...257 posts and nothing has changed...well I'm confused!!!:lol:

[virge666]

Bugger me...257 posts and nothing has changed...well I'm confused!!!:lol:

Agreed.

I am looking at the original swing and comparing... a little better but not much.

Your just not getting the beginning bit right.

[zigwah]

Can I get a shot down the line please...

and as mentioned it is NOT about keeping the head still it is about getting your backswing on plane - this will in turn keep the head still.

You backswing is WAY to inside. WAY WAY WAY to inside - this pulls you off the ball and hence the head movement.

Fix the backswing - and you fix the head.


Exactly.

Flat left wrist and swing FLATTER - WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY FLATTER.

And then more flatter... and then a touch more.

... and a bit more after that.


Virge can you please explain these two to me, i think this what i am not getting. Hopefully you what the hell i'm on about.

Just had a bit of a think about what i was trying to say.

On one hand i am taking it that you are saying i'm too far on the inside and i need the shaft pointing where Pamps is at waist height but then your saying i need to swing way way way flatter, how the **** do i swing flatter and get that shaft not going to the inside without having a steep swing?

[Iain]

Exactly.

Flat left wrist and swing FLATTER - WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY FLATTER.

And then more flatter... and then a touch more.

... and a bit more after that.

Why so flat Virge? Whats the advantage of being flat compared to upright?

[virge666]

On one hand i am taking it that you are saying i'm too far on the inside and i need the shaft pointing where Pamps is at waist height but then your saying i need to swing way way way flatter, how the **** do i swing flatter and get that shaft not going to the inside without having a steep swing?

Yeah - my bad - got too technical.

You need to understand what flatter is, and there is a pointless issue and a waste of your time and mine.

So I prattled on for about 13 minutes in a video that I posted below. it is way too long, and I repeat myself a LOT. I am hoping that some of my ramblings get the point across.

Your setup is where it all starts out wrong and goes bad from there. Can I mention the word posture ? I think I may have 241 posts ago.

Fix your posture.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Ziggy150409.wmv

[virge666]

Why so flat Virge? Whats the advantage of being flat compared to upright?

Avoiding this like the plague.

What is flatter - is flatter with the hands inside the plane, or outside the plane, are the hands and clubhead outside the plane or is one inside and the other outside.... What is the plane ? Which plane - Homer Kelly says there are at least 5 planes.

Maybe, the plane is the clubshaft plane and the clubhead sits on this clubhead plane and the hands are on the turned shoulder plane. Then both can't be on plane... maybe we are meant to be inside one plane and flat on another...

Why won't girls speak to me.

[zigwah]

Avoiding this like the plague.

What is flatter - is flatter with the hands inside the plane, or outside the plane, are the hands and clubhead outside the plane or is one inside and the other outside.... What is the plane ? Which plane - Homer Kelly says there are at least 5 planes.

Maybe, the plane is the clubshaft plane and the clubhead sits on this clubhead plane and the hands are on the turned shoulder plane. Then both can't be on plane... maybe we are meant to be inside one plane and flat on another...

Why won't girls speak to me.

Because your still regimented :mrgreen:

[henno]

Why won't girls speak to me.

Because you tell them as swingers they're fat and flat, and keep asking them to check out your stiff shaft.

:mrgreen:

[zigwah]

when i'm talking about swing plane i talk about the plane of the shaft, the plane being an extension of the shaft at address.

This is what i, am trying to swing on.

Is this wrong?

I always thought short fellas had flat swings and tall fellas had steep swings?

[zigwah]

Nite fellas back to all the confusion tomoz, slowly learning to not drop and type. nite nite

[virge666]

Here is the video gents.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Ziggy150409.wmv

Yes - you are wrong about planes... forget about it. there is way more to it depending on what kind of swing pattern you have.

Stick with basic fundementals Like SETUP and TURN.

[henno]

Nite fellas back to all the confusion tomoz, slowly learning to not drop and type. nite nite

A wise choice.

Don't drink and drop either. :)

[Jono]

Zig, as Virge mentioned, your swing problems start from your posture. Your spine is too upright and hunched over, and your hands are too close to your legs. You don't necessarily have to stand further away. If you stick your butt out, then you'll have more space.

Tell you what though ... You are gutsy to hit a ball over someone's head like that. :shock: :lol:

[Iain]

Yep, looks like he's bending at the waist rather than the hips.

[virge666]

Tell you what though ... You are gutsy to hit a ball over someone's head like that. :shock: :lol:


He ain't gutsy at all - his brother is though !!

[razaar]

Zig...I have a different view of your swing to others, to me you use your shoulders to change direction and start the downswing. I'll get back to this later after I explain a few things about the role the shoulders play in the throughswing. We all know the general theory that the change of direction & downswing are kicked off by a change in direction of the lower body, which turns the hips and then the shoulders (to twice the speed of the hips) powering the arms etc. The role of the right shoulder in the through swing is to kick in when the arms start to slow down (between the right knee and the right hip) and keep the body turning and maintain swing flow. The role of the left shoulder is to ensure the directional change keeps the swing in plane and to establish a firm left side to hold the swing to centre. If the right shoulder changes direction too early, the hands and clubhead are thrown outside the swing plane, the firm left side is lost and the swing flow will be effected.
Looking at your vid, I see a great wrench of the right shoulder to change direction. Nuff said. If you must use your shoulders in the directional change, then make a wrench upward of the left shoulder and keep the right shoulder still. Make sure that the head stays back and doesn't go with the left shoulder.:)

[zigwah]

He ain't gutsy at all - his brother is though !!

Yup he sure is, do just about anything for ya, even if he is as crazy as a cut snake sometimes.

[Jono]

Zig...I have a different view of your swing to others, to me you use your shoulders to change direction and start the downswing.

Don't you think his poor posture and backswing position has something to do with this?

[henno]

Here is the video gents.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Ziggy150409.wmv

Virge, that video helped me a bunch. The stuff about a bent piece of tube not being able to twist on it's spine, or whatever.... it just clicked. Great analogy that simply made sense me.

Needless to say, things were much better today after consciously keeping my spine nice and straight; irons far less lefty, woods far less righty. The score was still in the high 90's after some abismal putting and a quad, but far more FIR and GIR than any other round this year.

[razaar]

Don't you think his poor posture and backswing position has something to do with this?

I do, but he has back issues and probably very weak core muscles. Therefore he would have trouble maintaining a good posture to allow proper sequencing between the lower and upper parts. I am guessing that is why he uses his shoulders to change direction. It can be done this way but only by the left shoulder which will put the lower body in the all the right positions in the through swing. An upright swing plane is much easier on the back than a flat plane, which is another reason why he keeps persisting with an inside takeaway and a high arm lift. Also I am sure that Zig hasn't grasped that plane refers to the clubhead in the swing, thats the only thing that can stay on plane (rim of the plane wheel).

[Hack and Slash]

I admire your determination Zig, but you could watch videos and read forum posts till your eyes bleed and still be none the wiser. I have been through the same thing.

Best advice I can give is to get a couple of lessons. Any pro worth his salt could put you in front of a mirror and show you how your posture needs to be, then you will actually feel where your body segments should be. Also they can educate your hands and show you what a flat left wrist really is.

In 1 or 2 lessons you could save yourself months of banging your head against the wall.

I'll go back to lurking now.

[Scottt]

Virge, is it a myth that a swing is on plane if the extension of the shaft at either end is aiming at the line formed by the ball and the target?

[zigwah]

Virge, is it a myth that a swing is on plane if the extension of the shaft at either end is aiming at the line formed by the ball and the target?


apparently

[virge666]

Virge, is it a myth that a swing is on plane if the extension of the shaft at either end is aiming at the line formed by the ball and the target?

No that is pretty true - it is all the other stuff that makes it more complex. Pointing the butt of the club at the target line is a good reference.

The problem I have is how people try to get on plane. I have HUGE issues here. Deep seated, hate my parents kind of issues.

:)

[zigwah]

The problem I have is how people try to get on plane. I have HUGE issues here. Deep seated, hate my parents kind of issues.

:)

:mrgreen: I must be giving you the shits then.

[Scottt]

You've driven him to drink, Zig.

Fitting, don't you reckon? :lol:

[zigwah]

Its all good mate.

[zigwah]

well guys, here is the latest instalment of my swing, i think it's flatter??

Still standing up at impact but making better contact and starting to pull a few, and the ones going right are just a little fade.

Why am i standing up at impact, also now ive flattened my swing i really have to concentrate on getting the shaft parallel at or just before waist height.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60tQa3_Ly_A

[adlo]

zigwah.... live and uncut..... didn't like that second one :lol:

[zigwah]

zigwah.... live and uncut..... didn't like that second one :lol:


Yeah i hit the second one fat, was a shocker but the first one was good.

Hitting mostly just forward of centre towards the toe on most shots and the toe intermittantly, if that helps the swing gurus.

[dan]

Club going inside on the way back and coming OTT down.
Posture at address and during the swing still needs work. Note how tiger maintains his, whereas you've gone more vertical.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2227/zig.jpg

[markTHEblake]

its the funniest swing fvideo on ozgolf yet, just beating golfer69's 145seconds of waggle and 2 seconds of swing.

[zigwah]

Club going inside on the way back and coming OTT down.
Posture at address and during the swing still needs work. Note how tiger maintains his, whereas you've gone more vertical.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2227/zig.jpg


What is making me go vertical? do you think?

[Jono]

What is making me go vertical? do you think?

Over the top move.

Perhaps a lesson with a pro might fix it.

[zigwah]

It's getting close to the time for a lesson, but i can't understate the help i have received from posters here.

[dan]

Zig: I think you need to go back to basics. Find a pro, book some lessons and start all over again like you're a beginner. If you don't and you just try to fix this and that, then this thread will go on forever and ever.

[zigwah]

isnt the golf swing always a work in progress, i'm sure you have things you are working on right now? It's lucky i like ?to practice. Sure my swing isn't perfect but i know i can get down to single figures eventually, and i would be happy with that, i think i've left my tun to the pro circuit a bit late.

You dont think there are any good points to my swing, am i just relying on hand eye co ordination?

Does it matter if the thread goes on forever it's a journey a fun frustrating journey and hopefully others get some tips from all the questions i ask?

[virge666]

Zig,

You need a mirror. And you just rehearse. There is no secret, no special bit that is missing. You need to stop thinking about hitting it hard and work on hitting it properly.

You know what you need to do - go and do it.

[zigwah]

Ok i'll bring the mirror out from the sliding wardrobe tomorrow, dunno what the mrs will say, it should be interesting :)

[dan]

isnt the golf swing always a work in progress,......................It's lucky i like ?to practice.
What's the point of practicing the wrong moves?

But if you're having fun and don't want to improve then keep doing the same thing thinking a tip here and there will turn things around.

[zigwah]

I think i'm doing ok for 4 months back in the game, getting better every week, and i think parts of my swing have improved, but it just takes longer without lessons i guess, i know what i'm doing wrong and it's starting to get into my head, the maim thing i can't seem to stop and it is a big thing, is the over swing and ott backdown,but give me six more months and i'll be a lot closer.

And i think i can be on track to be off single figures by the time 12 moths back in the game comes around, and i will be happy with that, then my plan is to turn from ball striking to the rhe short game and see how it goes from there.

I'm not saying you are wrong, you are right, but i like to learn mostly by asking questions a lesson or 2 in the future and hopefully it will come together, it has in the past so i see no reason why it wont again.

And if i can slowly learn from my mistakes, and advice from others hopefully i will have a better understanding of the golf swing, not one persons version of the golf swing but the golf swing in general.

This may make no sense what so ever but it would be a very boring plasce if we all did everything exactly the same.

[Flowergirl]

I have just spent an hour reading this thread!!! Boy!!

Firstly
-Virge - you are a legend!!! What great advice you have been giving. I have been having lessons from my pro off and on for the past 5 years and your advice echoes his teachings - in most things!!! And the things that you and him differ in - well to be honest - I like your ideas more. I am eager to put them into practise next time on the range - AFTER the last round of the club champs. Don't think I want to make any changes until then. The video that you analysed was very informative. :smt038

Also Razzar - great advice - but I sometimes get a bit lost - I'm not got at reading directions - I am female afterall. Love your drills.

Now Ziggy. I will tell you this because no one else has done. The chances of you getting to single figures in 12 months are very ambitious and not realistic. You have some major swing faults that are not going to change quickly or easily. Not that you need a "perfect" swing to play off single figures. But I have heard and seen many newbies make wild claims only to become disheartened. Set yourself more achievable short term and realistic goals. You MAY play one or two games in the low 80's but that won't get you to single figures.

I REALLY admire the work you are putting in but follow Virges advise. Get that posture and takeaway correct cos if that's wrong - then evrything that happens afterwards will be wrong. Good luck.:mrgreen:

[razaar]

Hahaha FG, my wife says the same thing when we talk about her swing. I make a point of never advising women about the swing, have no idea how they think and how they operate.:) How perverse is this - my favourite author on the subject is a woman - Vivien Saunders.:oops:

[zigwah]

I have just spent an hour reading this thread!!! Boy!!

Firstly
-Virge - you are a legend!!! What great advice you have been giving. I have been having lessons from my pro off and on for the past 5 years and your advice echoes his teachings - in most things!!! And the things that you and him differ in - well to be honest - I like your ideas more. I am eager to put them into practise next time on the range - AFTER the last round of the club champs. Don't think I want to make any changes until then. The video that you analysed was very informative. :smt038

Also Razzar - great advice - but I sometimes get a bit lost - I'm not got at reading directions - I am female afterall. Love your drills.

Now Ziggy. I will tell you this because no one else has done. The chances of you getting to single figures in 12 months are very ambitious and not realistic. You have some major swing faults that are not going to change quickly or easily. Not that you need a "perfect" swing to play off single figures. But I have heard and seen many newbies make wild claims only to become disheartened. Set yourself more achievable short term and realistic goals. You MAY play one or two games in the low 80's but that won't get you to single figures.

I REALLY admire the work you are putting in but follow Virges advise. Get that posture and takeaway correct cos if that's wrong - then evrything that happens afterwards will be wrong. Good luck.:mrgreen:

I'm glad you didn't say impossible :)

[Flowergirl]

Impossible - there - I said it.;)

[virge666]

Agreed - no chance.

Sorry Zig, you are just too busy.

Thanks for your kind words FG.

[haysey]

It is possible, it just takes a lot longer than 12 months....roughly 5 years


My swing resembles a mad Paul Bunyon going postal on a tree:oops:....Or an octopus falling out of a tree, whichever:cry:


I've spent the last few months working rather hard (shaddup Courty) on posture and what the hands are doing at impact. It's still a dreadful swing to look at, it makes me cringe to see it on video and I'd hate to play golf with me:D.

[zigwah]

even if i played off 8 in 1999?

[Flowergirl]

even if i played off 8 in 1999?

Lots of things happen in 10 years. ;)

[zigwah]

Yes they do, but i'm gonna give it a crack anyway, if i think i can't i for sure won't :)

[dan]

even if i played off 8 in 1999?
you sound like charles barkely who use to shoot in the 70's.

[zigwah]

you sound like charles barkely who use to shoot in the 70's.

over my head.

[markTHEblake]

Yes they do, but i'm gonna give it a crack anyway, if i think i can't i for sure won't :)

Easily possible Zigwah, you wouldnt be the first to go from hack to single figures in that time period. Its just going to take practice play most days of the week.

[zigwah]

anything is possible, unless you think it isn't

[Scottt]

Zig. How often do you play on course. From what I gather about your practice regime, you beat a lot of balls, but do you play regularly to keep the short game humming?

[Russ]

I would think 12 months would be a more realistic goal if you went and had regular lessons.

Having a Pro grab you mid swing and say "OK stop there, see where your hands are? that's wrong, they need to be here (grabs your body and turns it to where it should be)" takes 1 minute, and doing it repeatedly over a half hour lesson is invaluable in teaching your body to go where it needs to go, and not revert back to what just feels 'natural & comfortable'.

4 days of typing, practice swings, and video uploads - only to find you've done it wrong - is a loooooong way around a problem solve.

Find a Pro. Go for 1 day a week, for 4 weeks. These 4 lessons will give you more than enough to know how much work you really need, so long as you continue the practice at home (which you're doing anyway) ... after those initial 4 weeks, if you really feel your game has come around, drop the lessons back to once a fortnight.

Make it a little easier on yourself by getting into a routine and go on the same day, around the same time, each week for every lesson.

... and none of it is of any use if you arn't actually playing a couple rounds per week, so you need to factor that in as well.




... the deleted bit went here ...

[Scottt]

Zig is in rural Victoria.

[Russ]

Haha, fair enough ... post edited due to numptyness!

[zigwah]

Zig. How often do you play on course. From what I gather about your practice regime, you beat a lot of balls, but do you play regularly to keep the short game humming?

Not a lot on course, but i have an old tractor tyre i try to land balls in, no idea waht they'd do on a green but at the very least i should get pretty god at hitting a spot ont the green, well a spot as big as a tractor tyre :)

[zigwah]

Finally got a kick arse mirror today and god damn i'm a good lookin rooster!!!


Seriously hope it helps with this overswing and that ****ed ott down swing.

[Jono]

Can you hit balls whilst looking at the mirror?

[zigwah]

no i cant i, why would that matter if i have a video camera. just got the mirror in the lounge to try and get some muscle memory for new posittions.

I can see where the club is on the way to the top slowly at first and hopefully i get used to that felling and solve 2 major flaws

[Beetle34]

Boring ](*,)

[zigwah]

Last few weeks been trying to flatten my swing with mixed results.

Seem to be hitting a lot more towards the toe, a lot more pulls and duck hooks and a lot of sculled balls, i have put most of this down to posture.

Still trying to hit a ball without standing up at impact, still looks like i'm adressing the ball at inpact, but when i try to stay down i find i'm hitting mostly fat shots and a few shanks.

Have starting just trying to hit pull cuts with the driver and its been effective but not pretty.

Still trying to shorten my swing, i did notice my left should pulling my head up on the back swing in the mirror i finally got.

On the course i am having real trouble evn feeling i can get back to the ball without going over the top.

See how it goes in the next few weeks

[markTHEblake]

Finally got a kick arse mirror today and god damn i'm a good lookin rooster!!!

:-s :-k :smt017 :smt102

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5020/1411139fb40625x1000.jpg

[zigwah]

You never heard that one b4 Mark?

[virge666]

See how it goes in the next few weeks

No good without video.

[zigwah]

how's the vid goin virge?

[virge666]

Right here mate . . . let's give up on the hands for the time being - you don't seem to be able to get that bit - let's try something different.

Lets get the hips working.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Ziggy3.wmv

Jim Hardies drill - yes I know it is for a one plane swing - but it will give you some idea on how to move your hips.

http://happybandits.com/virge/Virge/Hardy%20Drill%206.mp4

[dan]

This is like the aussie version of the haney project.

[ParMaster]

OMG this looks insanely close to my swing. Except yours looks much better.

[zigwah]

I just keep chipping away guys, that's all you can do isn't it, good therapy though.

It's the few nice shots per round that keeps ya comin back.

But i really am getting frustrated at my hips not being open at impact and standing up, since that last video i think i have gone a little way to make that happen, new vid to come in the next day or 2.

Another thing is i can't believe how short it feels i am swinging and i still get to paralle or a fraction over. But getting better all the time not real fast atm but enough to keep me coming back, just wish i could get through 18 without being rooted played 18 holes maybe 3 or 4 times since starting back and been in bed for the next 2 or 3 days, although it feels good to get out.

cheers zig

[Jono]

Watch Virge's critique of Ziggy's swing ... About 1:03 into it. After Virge says "body's gonna stall and he's gonna stand up ... Alright." Then watch how Ziggy's swing is reversed from the impact position to top then to address. The reversal of Ziggy's swing actually looks like a better swing. More from the inside ... ;)

Virge, I don't think concentrating on the right leg and the hips is the answer for Ziggy. Obviously, he doesn't know what an on plane downswing from the inside feels like. I think it would be more productive to find a way Ziggy can start feeling the HANDS and the CLUB moving on plane.

First of all, he needs to get into a better backswing position. Here's a drill that might help you Zig.

From the address position, DON'T move your body. Just lift your arms straight up and rest the club on your right shoulder. The arms should be relaxed and bent.

Now TURN the upper body away from the target whilst NOT moving the arms. LET the lower body follow.

AFTER you've made the turn, extend the left arm so your club moves away from your shoulder to give you some width.

Now you are in a perfect top of the swing position. I think getting into a better top position will help you a lot. After you get the feeling of the general SHAPE of the golf swing, you can work on individual body parts.

[zigwah]

This is like the aussie version of the haney project.

what is the haney project

[Yossarian]

http://video.google.com.au/videosearch?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4ADBF_enAU305AU308&q=hank%20haney%20project&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#

[dan]

what is the haney project
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXBkIjI-C2Q

All 7 ep's are online and worth watching.:wink:

[zigwah]

how does it end up?

[Yossarian]

They all die, it is very sad.

[zigwah]

I knew it

[Jono]

I just watched a few episodes and the finale.

I am a bit disappointed how Haney approached this project. He made Charles do what pros do. ie. beat ball after ball, talking about planes, etc. I think Charles would have had more success if he wasn't made to hit so many balls and if he was just shown what a golf swing feels like. Famous Harvey Pennik image of swinging the weed cutter comes to mind. Also swinging a bucket of water.

Perhaps throwing some clubs down the range would have helped. ;)

[dan]

I'm not convinced hank got down to the real cause of his hitch. In one video he admits that it will probably never go away.

[virge666]

From the address position, DON'T move your body. Just lift your arms straight up and rest the club on your right shoulder. The arms should be relaxed and bent.

Now TURN the upper body away from the target whilst NOT moving the arms. LET the lower body follow.

AFTER you've made the turn, extend the left arm so your club moves away from your shoulder to give you some width.

Now you are in a perfect top of the swing position. I think getting into a better top position will help you a lot. After you get the feeling of the general SHAPE of the golf swing, you can work on individual body parts.

Yep - I am all for that.. anything to get some movement... there must be a YouTube of this drill out there somewhere.

[razaar]

Sorry Zig but I am going to talk about you in the third person here. Zig has a few issues going with his swing that I saw during our round at Shepparton. The first is that he is as tight as a bow string in the torso, shoulders and arms and grips the club to guard against somebody stealing it (he is unable to square up the face at impact). The second is his backswing is quite narrow because his right elbow bends 130 degrees instead of the recommended 90 degrees. This is the reason why he takes the club too far on the inside and has no control at the top ( has a big outside loop during transition). The third is his grip. The hands are way too low (bad posture contributes to this) and the fingers are all wrong on the club. At the moment I'd say a good shot is a fluke.
IMO any advice should focus on those areas.

[dhills2]

Hey razaar, off topic but I just received Jim Flick on Golf after I bought it off US ebay not long back for US$5 (I remember you recommending this on here or somewhere else)... very good read so far... seems to reflect much of what you teach on here & so far it also seems to flow on nicely from a Rotella book I just finished. I used to be a bit of a US sports fan, particularly baseball, so I'm enjoying most of the analogies in these books!

[razaar]

Hey razaar, off topic but I just received Jim Flick on Golf after I bought it off US ebay not long back for US$5 (I remember you recommending this on here or somewhere else)... very good read so far... seems to reflect much of what you teach on here & so far it also seems to flow on nicely from a Rotella book I just finished. I used to be a bit of a US sports fan, particularly baseball, so I'm enjoying most of the analogies in these books!
I knew you would like that book, covers all swing types and is very easy to read and understand. It does complement Rotella's books now that you mention it.:)

[moree golfer]

Yep - I am all for that.. anything to get some movement... there must be a YouTube of this drill out there somewhere.
It's not quite what Jono was meaning but may help Zig:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JES-8I-VAk

Emjoi. :lol:

[zigwah]

It's not quite what Jono was meaning but may help Zig:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JES-8I-VAk

Emjoi. :lol:


Thanx mate, that was good :)

[zigwah]

Well, it's been a while since i posted in here.

Swing is and game are coming along in leaps and bounds in the last 2 weeks.

Having changed all my shafts back to reg has made a massive difference to my game.

New Lajosi putter i absolutlely love! still haven't had a 3 putt with it and been draining quite a few decent putts.

After trying and trying and trying, i am finally hitting a little draw with driver, only rarely going right now.

Two things that really clicked for me was seperating top from bottom on both backswing and downswing, have a feeling now of not even picking the club up till i have fully turned away from the ball, then from there it's just lift the arms and a little more turn, puts me nicely behind the ball.

The second thing, was i have really started to fire my hips, fast! this led to a lot of snap/pull hooks to begin with until i stopped moving forward with the firing of the hips, but now it is working great long drives with 5 to 10 metres of draw, feels much better than a weak cut.

Thanx virge and razaar for all you help and advice so far :)

[virge666]

Cool Beans !

[zigwah]

here you go

[zigwah]

after watching the vids of the FNQ boys today, i have a question regarding hip turn on the backswing.

When i first started playing golf, i was always told that on the backswing, your money pocket had to go straight back as far as it could go.

Was playing around in the yard today and noticed to my surprise i found that my overswing, was directly affected by my hips. If i swung like i always have with the money pocket going back, i had the overswing that i have tried to get rid of ever since starting golf as a teenager.

When i didnt turn my hips, i had a lot more "coil" and i could turn my shoulders as far as i wanted and the club would not go over!!

So was i taught wrong?

Thoughts on this swing gurus?

[virge666]

So was i taught wrong?


Yep.

You need to look at Booooooooooooooooooooooosh's swing and emulate.

Shoulders coil - hips support.

[zigwah]

Yep.

You need to look at Booooooooooooooooooooooosh's swing and emulate.

Shoulders coil - hips support.

All these years i have been trying to shorten my swing and it has been my hips that have been my problem, not the amount of shoulder turn!! :smt038

Has he shortened his amount of hip turn virge, just watched 2 clips on you tube and it looks like he has massive hipturn on the backswing?

[zigwah]

hahahahaha boooshs, i read wrong.

Thats where i got the idea virge :)

I'm fairly certain if it was not for this site i would have never, ever worked that out. good on ya virge, my first real epiphany since starting back.

It also stops the over the top move, unbelievable, so excited can't wait to take it to the course, wasn't hard to change to either, virge, raz, i owe you blokes a few beers. :)

[virge666]

i owe you blokes a few beers. :)

Yes - yes you do !

Champs - you will be shouting !

[henno]

Champs - you will be shouting !

I thought he pulled out of The Champs?

I'll buy you a beer as commiserations virge. ;)

[zigwah]

I pulled out weeks ago mate :(

My son and step daughters joint 16th that weekend, maybe next year.

[Jono]

It also stops the over the top move, unbelievable, so excited can't wait to take it to the course, wasn't hard to change to either, virge, raz, i owe you blokes a few beers. :)

Can you show us a video of your new swing?

From my experience, what feels different doesn't look that different. When I thought I had overcome a swing fault, the video showed me otherwise. I'd love to be proven wrong.

[zigwah]

yeah, i'll see what i can do in the coming days jono.

[razaar]

Can you show us a video of your new swing?

From my experience, what feels different doesn't look that different. When I thought I had overcome a swing fault, the video showed me otherwise. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Yep

The flight of the ball will let you know - it tells all.

[zigwah]

My back didn't like my hips not moving back on the backswing :( Will miss at least a month of golf i think :(

Played ok, but went downhill towards the end, and can't move now.

Seriously considering the lapenectomy, which i have shyed away from for years, what to do what to do?

Anyone had this op?

[zigwah]

Still rooted, very depressing, especially as i was going to get a summer membership soonish. :(

Can't even practice putt, how sucky is that!!!!

[virge666]

Interesting Raz, I have found since trying to restrict my hips on the backswing, it is very hard, awkward to have a lot of lateral movement, well it doesn't feel like a lot, during the start of the downswing.

DONT RESTRICT YOUR HIPS ON THE BACKSWING !

You will **** up your back.

It is not about restricting you hips - it is abou tgetting them to move in the right direction. You right hip goes BACKWARDS, it does not go right AND backwards. Just backwards.

This allows you to take the club up on plane and more importantly give you room to bring the club down on plane without sliding the hips 2 feet left.

It is all about sequence.

Hands move to your hips.
Then the shoulders take the arms up a bit more
Then the hips take them up a touch more so that your hands are around ear or head height.

Do not try and hold your hips square you will get a tonne of pain just above your right buttock in the a bit called the sacrum. Also may get pain a bit higher up the back also.

Enjoy

[zigwah]

Still licking my wounds, hoping that an extended break will calm things back down, really hoping it is just a flare up.

Yeah virge was thinking that i made a huge mistake or misinterpretation of information.

Still can't stand over a putt or set up to a golf ball, trying ice atm just in case it is a new injury and if that doesnt work i'll go back to heat, pain medication subsides pain to a dull ache with the semi regular ice pick stabbing in the back :(

Have monthly app with dr in oct, may see if he can get me in for an MRI or get me to see someone who can get me in for one.

Trying to stay positive and hope i can get back on course.

[zigwah]

Why are my hands behind the ball at impact?

[razaar]

Because they have released too early. Get rid of the blades.

[zigwah]

Because they have released too early. Get rid of the blades.

But i like em Raz, i really like em, and when i hit them well, i love them, just need more consistancy and that will come.

Do you want them? what do you have that i want? :)

[razaar]

Zig ...was hitting practice balls today & there was a chap with some MP57 w/- DG S shafts. We got talking and he hit several with my MP30's with the Grafalloy R shafts which knocked his socks off. Everyone he hit was an arrow right on target. To answer your question...I am happy to practice with the Mizzys and play with the Callys. They complement each other. Also because the Callys are much easier to hit from 6-iron up there is potential to play a composite set. But good try anyway.:)

[zigwah]

if they're the same clubs you had when you were here, i wouldn't even use them, just take em to the golf course and paractive putt, going to my bag every now and then, and see who noticed the diming hahahahahaha

[zigwah]

Ok haven't posted any video for a while, so here it is.

virge will say what you been doing you dickhead it looks the same :) but i think i'm getting close to eliminating the over the top move, anyway.

I still have the slice, but not every ball i hit some with a draw and some with a duck hook.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InySlTX4Yws

Btw i was hitting 8 iron and put the last one over the net

[Jarro]

Nice tempo Zig.

Looks like you are taking it away a little on the inside though :-s

[zigwah]

trying to swing flatter has done that i think.

[razaar]

Zig, you haven't given yourself much room for your arms and space for the left leg with your current posture. The hips need to be held high with the butt pointing upward to allow the finish to be solidly on the left leg with the tummy facing the target. Your hips have dropped and everything collapses after the ball has been struck. The short of it is that it is a weak arms swing with no power from the legs and torso.
Compare your address position with Stephen Aimes
http://www.pgatour.com/swingplex/00/60/04/index.html

[zigwah]

I really struggle to hold my arse and hips high Raz, keeps a lot of tension in the lumbar spine area, which after a while leads to no golf, looking at the footage, my hands do look very close to my body.

I was wondering, would it be against the rules to wear a back brace, sort of like a corset?

[razaar]

If you relax your stomach and back it shouldn't be a prob. Try and get the feeling of relief in your lower stomach that comes after a piss. I noticed how tight and tense you were in your arms and body when we had that brief session in June. Everything has to be loose mate except the feet and the knees.

[zigwah]

can you explain the collapsing a bit more please raz, because i don't see it.

Also been really trying to start the downswing firng the hips but i have no idea how to even start trying to get the hips turning like the pros do

[razaar]

Collapsing is a term used when the left leg is loose during the through swing and the swing is not held on centre. It is important to swing back against the resistance of both knees to stop slack from creeping into the swing. The lower back is to remain flat throughout the swing to lessen the shearing effect of the lower body leading the upper body in the through swing.

If you refer to the Aimes swing you will notice how his backswing is against the resistance of both knees. He has to grip the ground really hard to get a full pivot with his upper body with very little knee movement. He maintains his spine and hip angles and keeps his lower back flat by using his feet and knees as the anchor points for his lower body. To start the downswing he has only to transfer his weight onto the left heel, keep his knees level as they shift to the left and thrust back into the left heel to activate the hips and pull the upper body around in their proper sequence. The hands drop straight down and behind as the left knee shifts to the left. It is the first move onto the left heel that stops the clubhead in its tracks during the final phase of the backswing. It is important to understand that the arms stop their backward move much sooner than the clubhead which wants to keep going backward. It is up to some lower body move to break the inertia of the clubhead and reverse direction. The most efficient way to achieve this is through the feet.

[zigwah]

Thanx Raz, so what i am hearing you say is, all my angles are out and on the start of the downswing my hips knees and feet are too lose?

[zigwah]

My hips are moving about a foot to the left and aren't turning properly.

[TheNuclearOne]

You look to me like you're quitting a bit on the target side of the ball too. Lots of arms past the ball, not much body and not much extension. You're prolly swinging better than me, however :smt038

[virge666]

Zig,

I love ya but you are killing me.

You are hunched - you have shit posture... shall we go back to post number 4 and start again..

You have no room for the downswing because of your posture,
You put too much pressure on your back because of your posture
You cannot hit down on the ball properly because of your posture
You cannot start the transition in hte right direction because of your posture

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go back to the videos I did - especially the one with the drawing of you at setup... AND GET THAT SHIT RIGHT.

Dont restrict your hips let you hips move back and forth - but stay in your posture.

Watch the golf this weekend... especially the Euro tour where trajectory and ball striking is paramount... THEY STAY IN THEIR POSTURE.

forget your clubs, forget the shafts, forget everything other than POSTURE.

Please - trust me on this.... or come to Sydney and I will walk you through it.

[zigwah]

Zig,

I love ya but you are killing me.

You are hunched - you have shit posture... shall we go back to post number 4 and start again..

You have no room for the downswing because of your posture,
You put too much pressure on your back because of your posture
You cannot hit down on the ball properly because of your posture
You cannot start the transition in hte right direction because of your posture

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go back to the videos I did - especially the one with the drawing of you at setup... AND GET THAT SHIT RIGHT.

Dont restrict your hips let you hips move back and forth - but stay in your posture.

Watch the golf this weekend... especially the Euro tour where trajectory and ball striking is paramount... THEY STAY IN THEIR POSTURE.

forget your clubs, forget the shafts, forget everything other than POSTURE.

Please - trust me on this.... or come to Sydney and I will walk you through it.

I tried what you said virge, and found that i did strike the ball more consistantly, but geez i looked like a dick, i found i really had to bend my knees a lot to get my torso in an upright position, it doesn't help i have a spine like a question mark.

[zigwah]

Ok have done some more vid trying to get a golfer posture, i put it on V1 and i't didn't look too bad, to me.

Any better guys?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko-GTBzKhPg

[virge666]

Ok have done some more vid trying to get a golfer posture, i put it on V1 and i't didn't look too bad, to me.

Any better guys?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko-GTBzKhPg

A good start

Lets keep that going - the legs are a touch too bent but I would rather your err on that side for the time being... as too bent gives your more coil and less stress on your back than even a touch too straight.

Please even though you feel like you spent the night in prison - use V1 to compare to tour pros... and you will see the above WAY WAY better than that rubbish you call "feeling" good.

Trust me - I am on drugs !

[zigwah]

i don't think i can use v1 for comparing unless i pay for it, i check it out and have a play around.

had to read that about four times you drugged up maniac!!!! ;)

40 bux US, it will have to wait a bit.

Having the knees bent a bit more did take some pressure off my back, which hasn't been feeling too bad lately. Started taking some different tabs a while ago which has helped with pain, but not what they were supposed to help with lol

[virge666]

Having the knees bent a bit more did take some pressure off my back, which hasn't been feeling too bad lately. Started taking some different tabs a while ago which has helped with pain, but not what they were supposed to help with lol

Download CSwing.

You should feel very litle pressure on your lower back. More in the lats...

Enjoy.

[zigwah]

thanx virge

[dan]

Any better guys?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko-GTBzKhPg
You look like you're stretching to the ball. And the follow through also looks lazy.

Why not get some one-on-one lessons as all the instruction from virge and co isn't getting you far.

[virge666]

You look like you're stretching to the ball. And the follow through also looks lazy.

Why not get some one-on-one lessons as all the instruction from virge and co isn't getting you far.

Dan,

I agree, but that is the look I want.. it means that his body is finally moving around his hips... It ain great but it is a good start.

Now once he is happy to stay in his posture we can then speed up his arms to give him some power.... and then the body will start to adapt to the speed of his arms.

In all happens in a seq, and posture or setup ALWAYS comes first.

Would take about an hour to sort out on on one though.... using nothing more than a Taylor made MAS2 pullout as a persuader.

:)

[razaar]

Why not get some one-on-one lessons as all the instruction from virge and co isn't getting you far.
What!!!! This is the "neighbours" thread of OZgolf.:wink:

[zigwah]

may be a bestseller one day :)

[dan]

So you don't really want to improve?

[zigwah]

what do you think?

[dan]

what do you think?
I think you're having fun with this....

I think you love the game of golf, but the game doesn't love you...

And I think you know that.

[zigwah]

You have no idea pal, i'm not looking to get down to zero, only single figures and i can do that right here.

Have you read the whole thread?

[dan]

Nah. I haven't got the stomach for it.

[zigwah]

Why bother reading it? i have learnt a lot from this thread, and i'm sure others have too.

[TheNuclearOne]

I think you've made a fan Zig :lol:

[zigwah]

I think you've made a fan Zig :lol:

It's the mystique mate, That raw something that you just can't explain.:roll:

[zigwah]

Looking at the pros swings they swing a lot more upright than i do now, and they all get into that exact same position at impact.

Time for some mirror work.

[razaar]

Mirror mirror on the wall is this the fairest swing of all?
Sorry Zig, not even a close call!

[virge666]

Looking at the pros swings they swing a lot more upright than i do now, and they all get into that exact same position at impact.

Time for some mirror work.

Don't you even think of standing up.. !!!!

If you straighten your knees a touch - and I mean a touch. You will go a little more upright to keep balanced...

Draw a plane line on your before swing and then on your swing with you bent over the ball.

Tell me which one is closer...

... yeah exactly.

[zigwah]

I'll get there Raz :)

[zigwah]

I meant their swing plane is more verticle than mine, i wont stand up i promise.

[LarryLong]

Actually, I've got to say this, for dan's sake. I remember looking at Zig's first few swings and thinking about how hundreds of posts on this thread have resulted in absolutely zero change to his swing from my perspective. From then on I stopped looking at the vids, but read the occasional post for a laugh, and a reminder to me that lessons, practice, online swing dissection and all that sort of thing are basically worthless.

Today, I looked at my first Zigwah swing vid for ages. And it's completely different to what I remember seeing. You could knock me over with a feather. :)

Of course, I've got no idea if the ball's going better with the new action. How are you hitting them with the new swing Zig?

[zigwah]

It hasn't been different for long mate, but i think i'm on a better track now

[Bruce]

Stop posting vids and go see someone who knows whats' going on.

I'd drifted back to my cricket swing over winter and 15 mins with Willow had me back on track.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=829032&id=1138876339

[zigwah]

Stop posting vids and go see someone who knows whats' going on.

I'd drifted back to my cricket swing over winter and 15 mins with Willow had me back on track.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=829032&id=1138876339

I should, but the 2 pro's in the area don't turn me on.

[markTHEblake]

I meant their swing plane is more verticle than mine, i wont stand up i promise.

Some will be, some wont be, neither is right or wrong. This is like the One and Two Plane swings I have been studying - two plane is the upright one.


I should, but the 2 pro's in the area don't turn me on.

Virge and Raz turn you on do they?

[zigwah]

If i could go and see anyone in vic who teaches who would you guys suggest i go to?

[Bruce]

There is only one.

www.willowgolf.com.au

[sms316]

Is Steve Bann still teaching in Victoria? I would have thought he would have better credentials than David Williams?

[virge666]

Nothing wrong with Willow, great bloke and he will be a lot cheaper than Steve and will be a lot more personable, How far are you from Lang Lang ?

Dont let him put you in a long putter !!! ;)

[zigwah]

ages, i don't even know where lang lang is :(

Just had a look 3 or 4 hours i reckon

[virge666]

ages, i don't even know where lang lang is :(


OK - bugger.

Then the next step is the knees. have a look at your old swing and the bent knees swing..

The big diff is how much more your upper body stay OVER the ball through the swing. That is the cool bit about bending your knees a lot - it keeps the spine angle. Check out Sergio - he has a tonne of knee flex and he flushes it.

But your next step is to start to slightly straighten those legs but KEEP the upper body bent over the ball. You can still move your hips AS MUCH as ou like as long as it is backwards and forwards - not to the left or right.

You with me ?

[zigwah]

I think it would be cheaper to jump on plane to sydney one day ;)

[zigwah]

Yup got it.

Just had a look at Sergio on swing vision, man he holds the angle in his right wrist nearly to impact.

[virge666]

Yup got it.

Just had a look at Sergio on swing vision, man he holds the angle in his right wrist nearly to impact.


Yeah baby - watch the way his arms and body stay together all the way down.

Love it, but he is a bit steep for my liking, his divots are HUGE

[zigwah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbZLQIAbb-M Awsome!!

[dan]

250 yd 4 iron.....meh, I do that every week! 8)


(then i wake up and get out of bed).

[virge666]

Did everyone hear Faldo's words when he said "TRAP".

He didn't say hit, sweep, belt, strike or anything else. He said TRAPPED.

Think about this next time you want a swing thought.

(and I dont mean sand trap)

[zigwah]

Yup it had no where to go except where he wanted it.

[sms316]

Nothing wrong with Willow, great bloke and he will be a lot cheaper than Steve and will be a lot more personable, How far are you from Lang Lang ?

Dont let him put you in a long putter !!! ;)
I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with David Williams...

... but this is going a bit far.


There is only one.

www.willowgolf.com.au (http://www.willowgolf.com.au)

There would be 200 golf professionals in Victoria with as much understanding of the golf swing.

[zigwah]

Does anyone know anything about Andrew Walkley?

[sms316]

Never heard of him.

Is Steve White still at Shepparton GC? He did his apprenticeship at Corowa GC and was very highly thought of there. For a country track, Corowa has turned out some very good teaching professionals (and at least one very good playing professional).

[razaar]

http://www.andrewwalkley.blogspot.com/

We should be asking you Zig.

[zigwah]

Anyone can put a blog up saying how good they are raz :) i prefer word of mouth if at all possible.

[zigwah]

Never heard of him.

Is Steve White still at Shepparton GC? He did his apprenticeship at Corowa GC and was very highly thought of there. For a country track, Corowa has turned out some very good teaching professionals (and at least one very good playing professional).

David Trower is the pro there now and the other guy teaching pro

[razaar]

Anyone can put a blog up saying how good they are raz :) i prefer word of mouth if at all possible.
Well suss him out; there should be enough info in this thread to confuse the best golf teachers on the planet.:wink:

[zigwah]

Well suss him out; there should be enough info in this thread to confuse the best golf teachers on the planet.:wink:

That's an idea, turn up there with this thread printed out and say this is where i'm up to lol

[zigwah]

Played well today 78, really concentrated on posture for the whole round.

I also played with a different mind set to what i usually do.

I usually go around thinking bogey every hole is good with the odd par thrown in, but today i was trying to par every hole, and even scored 2 birds

Course was also in awsome nick, greens were pure.

[Timbo]

Played well today 78, really concentrated on posture for the whole round.

I also played with a different mind set to what i usually do.

I usually go around thinking bogey every hole is good with the odd par thrown in, but today i was trying to par every hole, and even scored 2 birds

Course was also in awsome nick, greens were pure.
What did you have on the back nine?

[zigwah]

38 back

[razaar]

Hey Zig just saw your score of 78....is this net or gross?

[zigwah]

Off the beater raz.

[razaar]

Way to go Zig. Is this your first sub 80 round? In fact given the number of posts in this thread, you had best give us the details - tee positions, course, competition, for handicap or otherwise, what worked etc. I mentioned to Jo that you shot a 78 and she didn't believe me.:wink:

[zigwah]

Way to go Zig. Is this your first sub 80 round? In fact given the number of posts in this thread, you had best give us the details - tee positions, course, competition, for handicap or otherwise, what worked etc. I mentioned to Jo that you shot a 78 and she didn't believe me.:wink:

No, this is not my first sub 80 round, but i have not had many.

tees were not back, about ten metres from the back.

Was not in comp im not a member anywhere yet, i'm just about ready to join up and get an official handicap, couple of more months and i'll be right.

Oh, and this clip of sergio, really clicked to me how early i was hitting at the ball.

What worked, being pissed off at letting my posture go, i did start to work on it months ago, but i got side tracked with other shit.

A lot straighter off the tee more GIR and a lot closer to the green on missed shots, Couple of good saves out of the beach.

New irons, they have helped a lot.

Confidence, started birdie, birdie which raised the confidence, but didn't get another one had putts for but didn't drop.

The greens were pure, best i have seen them, just been mown and rolled for the sat comp, rolled in half a dozen nice ones.

Was a day when everything went right and when i did have a wild tee shot i was able to get close to the green.

[zigwah]

How does everyone fire their hips?

I just try pull the left hip straight back, but it doesn't feel very strong.

Any pointer on how to get a strong hip turn back to the target?

[razaar]

Geez, I thought our work was done here.
When you turn on the backswing your hips don't move for the first quarter of the turn. The hips are dragged by the shoulder turn so that there is no slack in the backswing. It is not a confortable feeling if you haven't been doing this. To start the downswing the shoulders are held momentarily to ensure there is no slack and to give the larger muscles below their moment in the sun to bring everything around in sequence. For a hip turn to work properly it has to be loaded and have something to pull around with the absence of slack.

[zigwah]

Is our work ever done raz?

[virge666]

Geez, I thought our work was done here.
When you turn on the backswing your hips don't move for the first quarter of the turn. The hips are dragged by the shoulder turn so that there is no slack in the backswing. It is not a confortable feeling if you haven't been doing this. To start the downswing the shoulders are held momentarily to ensure there is no slack and to give the larger muscles below their moment in the sun to bring everything around in sequence. For a hip turn to work properly it has to be loaded and have something to pull around with the absence of slack.

Top Explanation Ray . . .

:smt038

And to add - the shoulders don't move for the first quarter of the swing either ... :)

[zigwah]

Top Explanation Ray . . .

:smt038

And to add - the shoulders don't move for the first quarter of the swing either ... :)


What the? I start my backswing with the left shoulder?

[zigwah]

Is this wrong? Man i have been shown some bullshit when i was younger if it is the case :(

See why i'm cautious about seeing just anyone for lessons

[TheNuclearOne]

What the? I start my backswing with the left shoulder?

Somewhere out there Carl Lohren is smiling :mrgreen:

[zigwah]

Put my first card in today, an 89 not as low as i hoped but ok, i scrambled well today.

I think i bought my first set of sticks here in Feb, so giving myself till then to see if i can make it to single figures in 12 months.

[zigwah]

Off to put my second card in tomorrow, aiming for 82 I'll see how it goes

[grandmasterb]

Off to put my second card in tomorrow, aiming for 82 I'll see how it goes

Best of luck zig, im hoping to break 100 for the first round of the champs and my first swing in a month :?

[zigwah]

Well that was ****ing disaster, 102 played with 3 blokes that i assume had an idea about etiquete but didn't worry about it, shouldn't have let it get to me but it did, also got stuck behind a slow 3 and the front 9, teed of on the back.

So looks like i'll be starting on a burglars handicap, was actually the worst score i have had since i started playing :( .

So 2 cards in now 89,102 and 1 to go.

[dan]

did you doff your cap and raise your bat in the air on the 18th?

[zigwah]

Nah should have

[zigwah]

3rd card today hope it's not another shocker, i spose anything between 89 and 102 will be good, give me a few strokes up my sleeve for the strke medal round sat week.

[Iain]

3rd card today hope it's not another shocker, i spose anything between 89 and 102 will be good, give me a few strokes up my sleeve for the strke medal round sat week.

You expect you'll play better in your first comp? What makes you think that?

[zigwah]

Chopped around again for 97. so i reckon in between 22/24.

[zigwah]

You expect you'll play better in your first comp? What makes you think that?

Because i can play better than my last 2 rounds, so much negativity in this place.

[grandmasterb]

Because i can play better than my last 2 rounds, so much negativity in this place.

At the end of the day zig you will play the way you play on the day and get the handicap your given to start.

What you do from there is completely upto you mate ;)

[zigwah]

Yup, just going to enjoy my golf mate :)

[grandmasterb]

Yup, just going to enjoy my golf mate :)

That's all you can do mate, the day you stop enjoying it is the day you should stop playing it IMO ;)

There are two things i remember when i go play:

1) Im here because i can not because i have to. If i had to play golf id go freaking mad!!!

2) You dont have to draw pictures on the scorecard :mrgreen:

[zigwah]

Nice points.

Just had an absolute shocker with the putter today, just couldn't get the ball to the hole, had 8 3stabs :(

And just your avg bad luck and shit shots

[dan]

So are you going to get lessons or continue hacking it around?

[zigwah]

I'll probably get a few lessons at some point in time.

[Iain]

Because i can play better than my last 2 rounds, so much negativity in this place.

All I'm saying is that it's harder than you think, otherwise you would've had lower rounds for handicapping....

[zigwah]

That would be a true statement if i had not played golf before.

[zigwah]

made a gutsy 19 points this morning :(

With trying to keep good posture, firing my hips and leaving my arms behind, i think i have forgetting to use my shoulders on the downswing with disasterous results.

Not sooking but medication rises are surely having some effect

[virge666]

made a gutsy 19 points this morning :(

With trying to keep good posture, firing my hips and leaving my arms behind, i think i have forgetting to use my shoulders on the downswing with disasterous results.

Not sooking but medication rises are surely having some effect


I am prtety sure I said leave your hands behind and stay in your posture. Nothing about hips being "fired"

If you want to fire anything - fire your arms and shoulders and leave the hands almost neutral. ie: no hand action at all.

Actually if you get some time - hit me on MSN or skype and we can go through some stuff - if you can just get that body to store some power instead of using it as a power source - life gets a lot easier.

Last question for you to think about.

Q1. What can you move quicker - your arms or your body ?
Q2. So what are you going to fire ?

[zigwah]

I am prtety sure I said leave your hands behind and stay in your posture. Nothing about hips being "fired"

If you want to fire anything - fire your arms and shoulders and leave the hands almost neutral. ie: no hand action at all.

Actually if you get some time - hit me on MSN or skype and we can go through some stuff - if you can just get that body to store some power instead of using it as a power source - life gets a lot easier.

Last question for you to think about.

Q1. What can you move quicker - your arms or your body ?
Q2. So what are you going to fire ?


Hey Virge,

I think i'm so close to everything clicking i just have to get the sequencing right.

Ok correct me if i'm wrong, if i don't fire my hips, i don't clear the bottom half for my hands to come through? At impact i look like i did at address?

Latley i have forgotten about my shoulders and it has resulted in wild and erratic ball flight, again. And no power, there is a par 5 at shepp that i used to be able to hit driver, 5 iron into, but now i havent used anything less than 3 wood.

What can you move quicker you arms or your body?

Well centrifugal force, tells me that the faster i turn my body mass and keep everything close to my body the faster my hands will go.

So what am i going to fire?

My body? my shoulders? my hips? i really have no idea atm, i'm confused about the putting it all together because in my mind everything we have talked about is starting to condradict itself.

turning fast with the shoulders can lead to oot out to in swing path, but now i need to fire my hole body together, i know i'm missing something in the chain but i keep getting confused as to where to start.

Originally when playing golf i thought the sequence was shoulders and hands start the back swing gravity cocks the wrists at about waist height now as i understand it i should be manipulating the club head with my arms and hands to keep it on plane slightly before the shoulders begin to turn, as i have found if i start the swing with the left shoulder and hands the shafts ends up to far inside the line at waist hieight in instead of parallel to the target line.

I think i have my shoulder turn sorted and have got the club in the proper position at the top. Where i'm going wrong is the transition from backswing to downswing there is no power stored and because i am concentrating so hard on not coming oot im am hitting the ball with my hands and arms and not even finishing the swing. forgetting completely or not even knowing what the shoulders are supposed to do now or how they actually work in the swing with out the ooot move, does that make sense?

My scoring has turned to crap, but i think i'm not far away from some good stuff rhythm is good just need to rehash how to get back to the ball without a power leakage.

Pm your msn Addy Again my msn stuffed and i lost all my contacts.

cheers

Zig

[virge666]

Find a vid of Stuart Appleby's swing.

Tell me what his hands do . . .

Tell me what his arms do . . .

[zigwah]

See this is where im stuffed, are they just guiding the club head?

[zigwah]

Find a vid of Stuart Appleby's swing.

Tell me what his hands do . . .

Tell me what his arms do . . .

His hands and arms are being dragged through by his shoulder turn.

[virge666]

His hands and arms are being dragged through by his shoulder turn.


Exactly... the hands work a particluar way.

If you read 5 lessons, that will tell you how the hands work.. they work up, not over.

This is what the Golf machine guys called "educated hands".

So turn your hands off and work on Arm Speed and body rotation. You will find that take away sorted, you will find yourself on plane longer, and most importantly - you will find yourself hitting the ball further with less effort.

[zigwah]

who wrote 5 lessons virge?

[zigwah]

does anyone have a copy of the five lessons i could possibly borrow?

[virge666]

does anyone have a copy of the five lessons i could possibly borrow?


http://shop.ebay.com.au/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=hogan+5+lessons&_sacat=See-All-Categories

It is one of those things you HAVE to own if you are a golfer ...

[zigwah]

Ok, i'll look into it. see if i can get it from the library till i can afford a copy. thanx

[zigwah]

played crap again today.

I feel like my swing on my driver and longer irons finishes when i hit the ball, no power whatsoever hitting big cuts and topping my driver left.

[TheNuclearOne]

That must have been a helluva long day today Zig! Sorry to hear it brother.

[zigwah]

long and hot, if my putter and wedge were off i would have been rooted, had a lot of good scrambling up and downs.

[TheNuclearOne]

long and hot, if my putter and wedge were off i would have been rooted, had a lot of good scrambling up and downs.


108 and your putter and wedges were on. Must have been a bad day for the rest mate. Hang in there.

[dan]

Ricky ponting would be proud. Baggy green for zig.

[Daves]

I hesitate to ask which irons you were using!?

[zigwah]

x20's

[Hamo84]

how many fairways did you hit today Zig?

[zigwah]

didn't play today, i can only really play once, maybe if i'm lucky twice a week. I'm knackered after 18 holes.

[Hamo84]

i meant this weekend?

[zigwah]

3 :(

[Hamo84]

hmmm tht cant help at all

[zigwah]

Pulled the old swing guide out today, just mucking around in the loungeroom, farrrrrrck i was missing the wrist by miles for those thayt know what i'm talking about, i have that sorted but the shaft at the top is still way across the line.

[Hamo84]

what swing quide?

[TheNuclearOne]

Pulled the old swing guide out today, just mucking around in the loungeroom, farrrrrrck i was missing the wrist by miles for those thayt know what i'm talking about, i have that sorted but the shaft at the top is still way across the line.

That's harder to follow than The Golfing Machine Zig.

[zigwah]

http://www.intheholegolf.com/store/swgyd.html

this one, i have the old black one

[GolfBallWhackerGuy]

The swingyde has done wonders for my golfswing. I'll keep it in my bag forever. =)

[virge666]

Pulled the old swing guide out today, just mucking around in the loungeroom, farrrrrrck i was missing the wrist by miles for those thayt know what i'm talking about, i have that sorted but the shaft at the top is still way across the line.


And why is it across the line ?

(very easy Q, what is you right elbow doing ?)

[zigwah]

And why is it across the line ?

(very easy Q, what is you right elbow doing ?)

exagerated my right elbow is coming away from the left, in my normal swing my elbow doesn't look like it's seperating, but if i use my whole shoulder turn it does, i found i really have to squeeze hard at the top of the swing my 2 elbows together, i mean quite tight to stop the club going across the line something that i am definately not used to. I have a very lose swing i guess this is a big problem, will take some time to get used to.

does that sound right virge??

[zigwah]

And why is it across the line ?

(very easy Q, what is you right elbow doing ?)

Had a think about this over the last week virge and i think it is posture with my right side collapsing it brings the shaft across the line.

[virge666]

does that sound right virge??

No.

How far can you turn whilst keeping your right elbow/bicep connected to your upper body.

What do I mean by connected.

On your shirt you will have a vertical seam that goes from your armpit to your hip... how far can you turn whilst keeping your right bicep on the same plane as that seam on your shirt ?

See how far you can do this with a flat left wrist ?

I bet you don't get across the line, and I bet your swing becomes a LOT shorter and more compact.

Enjoy

[zigwah]

I'm starting to understand all this a little bit better now.

It's just taken a while because if what i think is right and at the top of the swing my arms are in front of me instead of behind me it feels like i am going to have an out to in swing path, when in fact it makes it easier for my arms to fall and them hit maintaining a lot of angle in my wrist and i just forget about the hips, somehow the brain tells them to get the **** outta the way?

[virge666]

, when in fact it makes it easier for my arms to fall and them hit maintaining a lot of angle in my wrist and i just forget about the hips, somehow the brain tells them to get the **** outta the way?

Exactly.

[zigwah]

Got some brilliant news today....well very positive, my dr thinks i may qualify for a trial being done on some sort of electrical nerve implant, so have to go andchat to these guys in melbourne to see if i am suitable, then start all over with new MRI's xrays and other scans.

Dont want to get my hopes up but i'm feeling good about it, anything that will stop the pain and get me off morphine and i'll be pumped.

[zigwah]

First lesson today, didn't change much other than alignment of my whole body and how i take the clubaway.

Feels a bit strange, feels like if i open the clubface i'm set to hit a big cut down the left hand side.

If i don't stay behind the ball with my body with the changes i get a massive slice or shank.

See how i go tomorrow par :)

[TheNuclearOne]

Don't expect results tomorrow Zig, making real change usually has you going backwards a little before forwards, hopefully way forwards.

[zigwah]

Yeah i know mate, i've had lots of lessons before, but that was like 15 years ago or more.

Jack told me i was aiming right at address and the pro agreed, so slowly slowly, he also mentioned that i may never gain the power i used to have because of L4/L5 damage, this he says has led to me hitting my clubs no where, oh and i need to strengthen my left wrist, so basically yeah i'm a basket case.

He did say he could help though.

[TheNuclearOne]

You're on da way! Keep with it mate.

[zigwah]

Will do, i'll probably have -10 tomorrow :)

[Webster]

zigwah,

The time has come to ignore all advice previously posted on this thread, and to listen only to the words spoken by your chosen Pro. But remember these two quotes by ancient philosphers, whose wisdom will guide your forward on the path to swing righteousness :

Yoda from Star Wars:

"Do, or do not. There is no try."

and

Dalton from Roadhouse:

"It'll get worse before it gets better."

Good luck my friend.