Upgrading my Irons

[Divot]

Hi all this is my first post, just wanting some advice or info as I am looking at upgrading my irons.

I'm currently am using Srixon Tour Specail irons.
I have been working hard on my game over the last year or so and have noticed a real improvment after upgrading my Driver, wood, hybrids. I thought some better irons might been in order. I have been looking at the Taylormade r7 CBGmax irons and to a lesser extent the Callaway X20's.
I have been told the Taylormade R7's are discontinued is this Right?

I have not really looked at any other iorns at this stage. Any advice would be great, I'm looking for irons that are forgiving but will also help me to continue to improve my game.

Thanks in advance

Divot

[mikezone13]

Wow, nearly two hours and no one has tried to sell you any irons...

Welcome to the forum, theyr'e normally quicker off the mark than this... ;)

[berra01]

Im in the same boat as you.. Looking for new clubs... :)

[virge666]

What is wrong with the ones you have ?

What do you class as "better" ?

[Divot]

Hi guys thanks for the welcome.
Hi virge666 I guess nothing is really wrong with the irons I have now, but I have noticed a big improvement since upgrading my longer clubs, that i thought it may be worth doing the same with my irons.
Recently I have purchased a Callaway FT-I driver, awesome club, Taylormade R7 CBGmax 3wood and R7 Draw Hybrid.
With each club I have noticed increased distance and confidence.
I have also been working on hitting it straight and finding my Yardages, I am hitting my 4 iron 160m, 5iron 150m etc. Is this alright? What should I be aiming for distance wise?

I guess I am looking for some guidance as I really don't know to many people who play golf seriously, I used to play quite a bit at uni but since then my main hobby has been fishing so all my mates fish.
My only real source of info is from the pro I go to for lessons or the local Golf shop and magazines.
Any help or guidance would be great

Thanks again
Divot

[virge666]

Hey Divot,

Allow me to let you in on a secret... the clubs mean very little, especially irons. Any decent player can play with pretty much any irons and shoot a decent score. Yeah - you can tune them to your game but you have to have a consistant swing to tune them too. We all whinge about what club and shaft does what - but in reality, we are just compensating for a bad round. And the clubs you suggested are much uglier than your Srixons. WAY, WAY Uglier.

The only thing you have to get right is the length and the lie. At your sort of distances you could have Regular shaft or stiff shafts, the only thing I would suggest is the lighter the shaft, the better.

Take your clubs and yourself down to the local pro and ask him to check the lie and length of your clubs. he will put some "impact tape" or stickers on the head of you clubs and check to see where you hit them, he will then make suggestions or reccommend some changes. It will only cost $10 a club or so... and once this is done you can be assured your clubs are YOURS.

Then spend your money on lessons . . . and then turn up for the OzGolf comps and win the money back.

Enjoy.

[Dotty]

Distances for those irons are better than this 12 handicapper. :oops:
(But I tend to mostly play fairway woods, hybrid and wedges at my home course.)

A good bet is demo days, where the manufacturers allow you to hit a range of their clubs at a driving range. No obligation to buy, but it is a good way to determine whether a particular club fits into the 'keep in mind', 'not for me' or 'I could turn pro' categories, without shelling out a grand plus. (Also handy to feel the differences between graphite and steel shafts (and reg. vs. stiff) for the model that you fancy.)

A schedule for demo days can be found on some of their websites or in the free golf newspapers, Pacific Golfer and Inside Social Golf. Also ask at your local driving range. (I know Hudson park in western Sydney usually has a company or two between 4pm and 8pm on Tuesday nights.)

And have a look in everyone's 'What's In The Bag' department here on Ozgolf, to see what people like and what they have offloaded.

[goonie]

Sorry Virge, I agree with some things you say, you don't want to over complicate things for someone who isn't equipment savvy, or encourage people to change clubs for no reason, but there is a little more to it than length and lie. And considering the source :-), you do do a lot of changes with your own clubs. I have found that for me that no or minimal offset on a club is the first thing I look at when looking at irons.

[burger]

Hiya Divot,

Both Dotty and Virge666 have good points.

If you want to get new clubs, try as many as you can at demo days.
If none 'grab' you and make you scream "THIS IS THE ONE!!!!!!" then keep your Tour Specials and get them adjusted for loft/lie as Virge suggested

For me one of the most important things about the club is how they 'feel' with my swing. I went into a few different shops and just tried a bunch of different clubs with little half swings and checked out how they felt/looked at rest. One TOTALLY stood out from the rest.
I have also bought specific woods after comparisons from Demo days.

Hope this helps.
stu.

[schwartzy]

There is a huge psychological component to golf. If you have the money, why not replace your clubs. You do get a huge psychologcal and emotional boost. I agree new clubs should not make a difference, they are all pretty good these days, but don't discount the mental component. I enjoy playing golf, but I equally enjoy planning and researching my next purchase : )

[BrisVegas]

Irons are irons are irons. As virge said, if they fit you for length and lie, swing the lightest shaft you can hit straight and be happy. Spend your money on a fairway-finding driver, a couple of specialist wedges and a putter that you love.

[virge666]

There you divot - 4 points of view. Up to you to find the one that suits your personality.

For the record - I change my clubs every 2-3 years. I have just gone from Mizuno MP-60 irons to Ping S-58, and a Nike SQ Tour to an Exotics 10.5 driver. I still have my old Hogan Edge Pro irons from 6 years ago that I still bring out when I can't find a golf course.

IMHO, you will heaps of time to screw around with clubs and shafts and woods and heads when you get down to the low teens and can play a bit. Spend the next 12 months playing golf and enjoying it.

and . . . sleep with your putter.

:)

[goonie]

There you divot - 4 points of view. Up to you to find the one that suits your personality.

For the record - I change my clubs every 2-3 years. I have just gone from Mizuno MP-60 irons to Ping S-58, and a Nike SQ Tour to an Exotics 10.5 driver. I still have my old Hogan Edge Pro irons from 6 years ago that I still bring out when I can't find a golf course.

IMHO, you will heaps of time to screw around with clubs and shafts and woods and heads when you get down to the low teens and can play a bit. Spend the next 12 months playing golf and enjoying it.

and . . . sleep with your putter.

:)

What about all the other sets and shafts you were testing last year, eg tity 695cb, some blades with nippon shafts, PX shafts.....

I am not suggesting that Divot become a club HO like a lot of us, I just don't agree that it's only about length and lie, I believe shaft weight, flex and offset/Draw Bias are also important for anyone who plays regularly. I agree with Burger, and I have done lots of demoing of clubs before I make a purchase. The more you try the more you know what you like and don't, I am also pretty sure that Virge has said in the past that it's all about getting the right shaft.

And Brisvegas - looks like you've changed your irons 3 or 4 times in the last 3 years ;-)
http://www.ozgolf.net/forums/showthread.php?t=723

[BrisVegas]

sure have, and that's how i know how little difference one brand of irons makes versus another.

[goonie]

If they are a similar style, but I am sure it depends on your swing too. Some people may be able to hit any irons, but If I get some irons with too much offset I struggle not to hit them left. Even the 704s and GC Mids had too much offset for me.

[virge666]

Goonie,

I am a clubfitter by trade. Pretty much all of the clubs I buy here are for clients. Anyone who has played with me know that I am a pretty boring guy when it comes to clubs. All my clubs are at least 1 or 2 seasons old. Those Pirahna blades were going to be the new ones though... but I couldn't get another set, they all went to Europe and the set I had went to a tour player in NZ. They were awesome. <sigh>

But back on topic.

I also believe club design is way more important than shaft, especially with a higher marker and the feel you describe with all clubs is due 95% to the shaft.

As for offset - also 600% due to asthetics, if you really think that 1 or 2 degrees of offst on a GC Mid causes you to hook a shot - then... well . . . no.

If you want to buy new clubs for the sake of it . . . sensational - go for it. My only consideration is that for our new lad up there who started the thread not spend money on clubs for the sake of it... There really ain't that much difference between the ones he owns and the ones he was considering, so really , why bother ?

:)

[Divot]

Thanks everyone for your honest replies, honest helpful feedback is the reason I joined this forum.
I think I will continue to work with the Irons I have at the moment, but keep an eye out for demo days as suggested.
In the meantime I might invest the money I would of spent into a club membership so I can try some entry level golf competition.

Thanks again all for you feedback, it really helps a newbie like myself.

Cheers
Divot

[PeteyD]

Virge might be longwinded, but he knows his crap.

[Dazza]

Welcome to the site Divot.

Good luck with your up & coming membership.

[markTHEblake]

If you want to get new clubs, try as many as you can at demo days.

that wont achieve much, cos most people think they are trying out the clubhead when in reality they are trying out the shaft, and fitting.

A beginner golfer really needs to just get the basic fit out right, as Virge666 said. That will make a huge difference to his game. Clutching on to the latest fad in shiny brand name things wont do him any good at all - unless money is no object to him.

This aint Asia where people measure up their status by boasting how much they paid for the clubs, the higher the more important they are.

[virge666]

Virge might be longwinded, but he knows his crap.


i thought that was pretty short . . . :shock:

[goonie]

Goonie,

I am a clubfitter by trade. Pretty much all of the clubs I buy here are for clients. Anyone who has played with me know that I am a pretty boring guy when it comes to clubs. All my clubs are at least 1 or 2 seasons old. Those Pirahna blades were going to be the new ones though... but I couldn't get another set, they all went to Europe and the set I had went to a tour player in NZ. They were awesome. <sigh>

But back on topic.

I also believe club design is way more important than shaft, especially with a higher marker and the feel you describe with all clubs is due 95% to the shaft.

As for offset - also 600% due to asthetics, if you really think that 1 or 2 degrees of offst on a GC Mid causes you to hook a shot - then... well . . . no.

If you want to buy new clubs for the sake of it . . . sensational - go for it. My only consideration is that for our new lad up there who started the thread not spend money on clubs for the sake of it... There really ain't that much difference between the ones he owns and the ones he was considering, so really , why bother ?

:)

1. I never suggested that anyone buy new clubs for the sake of it. I rarely buy new clubs, unless I find a good deal or can get a good trade in, I normally go second hand. And like you I still have my old faithful set (Maxfli Revos)
2. Offset isn't measured in in degrees, it is a distance measurement e.g. mm or inches. And I am very shocked a club fitter who thinks club design is more important than shaft, doesn't believe in forms of draw bias that are applied to club design e.g. offset or weighting. Also most companies put some sort of draw bias in there clubs because most golfers fight a slice.
3. Not trying to be a pain but I have read a lot of your threads in the past, so I had a quick look at some of your threads, last year you purchased the following, a set of Titty 695cbs, Piranha Blades, Callaway X-Forged, Ping S58, TM RAC TP MB, Mizuno MP57 and you had your long term MP60's. Yes you sold most of them but according to your threads you got them all to try for yourself first. not for clients.
4. The only things I disagreed with was "the clubs mean very little, especially irons", "The only thing you have to get right is the length and the lie", and that you only change or try new clubs every 2-3 years.

[virge666]

1. Fair call - With you. maxfli revo and Maxfli blades - boring design - awesome clubs.
2. yes and no. offset on some lie and lofters work in degrees. Think Metric and Imperial - same shit, different smell.
3. Missed AP1's, 2 sets of MP33 and MP30, Nike SQ 5900, G5's, 2 sets of GC mids, some wedges and putters and a few others... i hit them but they were not for me. Took Hogans to OzGolf champs as I sold my beloved 60's to Scott <sigh>
4. He is a beginner, just get him out there playing and enjoying the game.

But this one . . . :smt093


And I am very shocked a club fitter who thinks club design is more important than shaft


The clubhead hits the ball - therefore it is the most important part. End of story. The shaft is subjective (more on this later)
Iron heads have a high or low COG, High COG = Low flight and vice versa
The sole design and COG setup the clubhead to either dig or skid. Better players like diggers, choppers like skidders.
The offset is there to move the COG back and to help people release the hands (rotate the clubface) - Yes - it does help a fader, but it doesn't cause a hook as you shoudl be hitting down on the ball.

The shaft is subjective to one thing - the release. if your hands are behind the ball at impact - it makes absolutley no difference what shaft you pick as the shaft is not working as designed. Just pick one that feels good and doesn't send the ball too low.

For a better player - the shaft is there to control the spin on the ball after you have picked the clubhead. Too soft and the ball balloons, too stiff and you don't get any flight or trajectory.

The golfers playing style and talent picks the clubhead and then the shaft is picked by the spin rate of the chosen ball.

And Yes - it is exactly the same for drivers. You don't put a high spin player with a G10 or Nike SQ. You put them in Titty and TourExotics, then you tune it with the shaft.

Sorry Petey - too long, but I hoping other people might get something out of the above. I have certificates that have to be justfied. :lol:

[BrisVegas]

where's that popcorn munching emoticon?? this is good stuff!

[PeteyD]

i thought that was pretty short . . . :shock:


It was. I was speaking in general terms ;)

[virge666]

where's that popcorn munching emoticon?? this is good stuff!

Here to help... entertainment is my middle name.

Saying the clubhead is the most important is probably the wrong way to go about it. As they both have to work together and if you get one of them wrong - the club is rooted anyway. So saying one is more important is a bit of a falacy.

The clubhead is where you start - it will give the initial launch and spin rate - you then tune it with the shaft.

It is like saying the the tyres are more important than the suspension, you need both - but the tyres are where most of the performance is.

[goonie]

I also believe club design is way more important than shaft, especially with a higher marker and the feel you describe with all clubs is due 95% to the shaft.

As for offset - also 600% due to asthetics, if you really think that 1 or 2 degrees of offst on a GC Mid causes you to hook a shot - then... well . . . no.


My comments below, when read in context not when part of the sentence is quoted :-(, were in relation to your comments above. I know your into club design, as I mentioned before I have read your posts before with interest and discussed it with you here. I was just having a little dig at you because in one paragraph you say "I also believe club design is way more important than shaft...." and then in the next you say "As for offset - also 600% due to asthetics" offset in clubs is certainly apart of club design so I thought a little bit of a contradiction maybe :-), and offset has been proven to work along with draw bias weighting in club design. When I first started playing golf I could only slice a no offset players club but I could control my first set of heavily offset clubs. Maybe I should have put a little smiley face in with my comment.


2. Offset isn't measured in in degrees, it is a distance measurement e.g. mm or inches. And I am very shocked a club fitter who thinks club design is more important than shaft, doesn't believe in forms of draw bias that are applied to club design e.g. offset or weighting. Also most companies put some sort of draw bias in there clubs because most golfers fight a slice.

[virge666]

offset in clubs is certainly apart of club design so I thought a little bit of a contradiction maybe :-), and offset has been proven to work along with draw bias weighting in club design.

Gotcha. :)

have a read around . . . lots of guys reckon draw weighting in irons is a crock of the proverbial, I tend to agree. The clubface is either open or closed at impact. All you can weight up the club so that it helps rotate the clubface through impact. (But this only works if you are on plane !)

I don't care much for offset anymore - in the old days when we had small head and some perimiter weighting - I am sure offset helped a lot... But with all the modern clubs . . . dunno. The COG is SO FAR back, it is just a whole new game. All new new choppper clubs are just hybrids without actually enclosing the back of the club.

Personally I hate it, but if it gets more people playing and enjoying the game, I guess I am all for it . . . sort of. Give them all Maxfli Revs, if you cannot play with that - buy a tennis racquet. :D

[razaar]

I guess grip size don't count, eh?

[Scottt]

Virge, the 60s are getting f**k all use over here in the cold. Seriously, if you want 'em back, find me something you think I might like and we can swap.

They are pretty to look at though, even my missus says so... though the only other thing she has to look at in the bedroom is me :lol: so maybe it's all relative.

[virge666]

I guess grip size don't count, eh?

You and I both know the answer to that. :)

Scott,

I am now the proud owner of a set of S58 and like them a lot. In fact, a very real lot. I went through 3 sets of shafts to find a set I liked. DG SL in X100. Ping seem to feel a lot better IMO with lighter shafts.

I screwed up the PW though... 1/2 inch too short. I have a 9i that goes 125-128 and a PW that goes 105-108... Oops. Took me ages to figure out why.

Now get out there and play a bit or come home.

[Scottt]

Virge, it's 3 degrees today and that's the warmest it has been in three weeks - and the coldest time is supposed to be late Jan/early Feb.

I'd need 20 of those gay little gel-pack hand warmers you have been known to use to play in this weather!

Though it still probably isn't as cold here as it was that morning at Ashlar when I forgot to bring a jumper and my drive on the first went about eight feet :lol:

Glad you finally found a set you like. I'm not sure why you didn't start the shaft search with SL X100 given how much you loved them in your, I mean my MP60s :lol:

[BrisVegas]

I am now the proud owner of a set of S58 and like them a lot. In fact, a very real lot. I went through 3 sets of shafts to find a set I liked. DG SL in X100. Ping seem to feel a lot better IMO with lighter shafts.

nice shafts! I'm a recent convert too.8-)

[virge666]

Glad you finally found a set you like. I'm not sure why you didn't start the shaft search with SL X100 given how much you loved them in your, I mean my MP60s :lol:

Yeah - my thoughts exactly. tried PX, NSPro, S300 and finally looked at the ones out of the 60's and thought... why not.

Not one of my better moments. :)

Bring on the UK summer.

[Scottt]

Indeed. I plan to break the drought with a visit to play some Cornish links courses in April - Trevose, St Enodoc and Burnham and Berrow.

[henno]

All new new choppper clubs are just hybrids without actually enclosing the back of the club.

Personally I hate it, but if it gets more people playing and enjoying the game, I guess I am all for it . . . sort of. Give them all Maxfli Revs, if you cannot play with that - buy a tennis racquet. :D

:-"

[adlo]

Ha Ha Ha!

No comment from relevant parties though.....