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BrisVegas
5th October 2008, 09:01 PM
CCR today for my club champs was 77 (5 over par). I think the ACR is 74.

Is there a cap on how high it can go? What's the highest you've seen?

haysey
5th October 2008, 09:25 PM
Paradise Palms ACR is 75:shock:. I've not seen the ccr be any higher than that but.

I think I'll be buying some more golf balls on the way to Brookwater:oops:

Johnny Canuck
5th October 2008, 09:50 PM
our back tees are ccr 76. i believe the ccr can go one above that and we have had days where it has been 77.

welshy
5th October 2008, 10:14 PM
I have been told that the CCR can only be maxed at 2 above the ACR, but I guess this proves that wrong

Courty
6th October 2008, 06:05 AM
I have been told that the CCR can only be maxed at 2 above the ACR, but I guess this proves that wrong

I'd been told something similar (max of 2 under or 1 over par) and I've never seen anything different at my club, although I have seen it 4 over at Paradise Palms before so I'm not sure where that story comes from.

Moe Norman
6th October 2008, 07:40 AM
CCR can only go 3 above ACR unless there are 'extreme conditions'

I played at the Dunes one day and the CCR was 81, but I was hitting driver 400m down wind and 120 into the teeth of it!

Andrew
6th October 2008, 07:47 AM
Newcastle regularly has a CCR of 78 on our Black Marker Fridays when they make the par 70.

Jarro
6th October 2008, 07:48 AM
So we noticed Andrew :roll:

Gotta get back there for another crack at that place :)

Andrew
6th October 2008, 07:51 AM
So we noticed Andrew :roll:

Gotta get back there for another crack at that place :)

If ever you come back, I'll take you out on a normal day. The Wednesday comp plays about 6200m, so it's not too bad.

BrisVegas
6th October 2008, 08:20 AM
So, the Dunes CCR of +9 and Newcastle at +8 are the winners so far!

Johnny Canuck
6th October 2008, 08:56 AM
CCR can only go 3 above ACR unless there are 'extreme conditions'

I played at the Dunes one day and the CCR was 81, but I was hitting driver 400m down wind and 120 into the teeth of it!

I'll have to check what our champs was a year ago. It was "extreme conditions". I had the 3rd best gross score of the day with 92. We had a 6 marker shoot 125 and a 12 marker shoot 126 with 25 putts. The winds were comical. I had a 4 foot putt that I tapped and was left with about 15 coming back and it wasn't downhill.

I too have been told that it could only be one over or two below. Did not know about the extreme conditions aspect to it.

Andrew
6th October 2008, 09:03 AM
So, the Dunes CCR of +9 and Newcastle at +8 are the winners so far!

The strange thing about the +8 days at Newcastle (and there have been 4 or 5 of them in the last year) is that it is rare that anybody plays to it. The last one in a field of 55 golfers, only 4 guys broke net 90. I would assume the +9 day at The Dunes was similar.

I personally think these days are a little silly. I would prefer the Black Marker Fridays at Newcastle to be stableford where anybody who breaks their handicap (i.e 37 points or more) get a decent prize.

BrisVegas
6th October 2008, 09:27 AM
I personally think these days are a little silly. I would prefer the Black Marker Fridays at Newcastle to be stableford where anybody who breaks their handicap (i.e 37 points or more) get a decent prize.

Yeah, I think the same thing about our plate days. It's so easy to rack up a triple or quad and that just ruins the day for most A graders. 30 points sounds better than a nett 80 too!

chappy1970
6th October 2008, 12:32 PM
This may explain some of the high CCR's along the Vic coast

http://www.golfvic.org.au/AM/Template.cfm?Section=What_is_the_CCR_&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=4255

Those subject to extreme conditions can go high

BrisVegas
6th October 2008, 01:17 PM
cheers chappy. This is what must have occurred yesterday:

"If the CCR is calculated at less than or equal to the best nett score returned, it must be raised to be 1 stroke higher than that score, up to a maximum of 4 strokes above the ACR."

76 nett was the winning score for the day, hence the 77 CCR.

Bruce
6th October 2008, 03:03 PM
That's kinda harsh though. You can be 2 shots off a win and still fail to make the CCR.

chrisal
6th October 2008, 08:19 PM
CCR at Pacific Harbour on club champs day one was 77, up from 74 ACR. I don't think I've ever played it in less than 'extreme conditions' certainly not in the past 3 months with high winds almost every time. Some days start off with only a slight breeze but as soon as you get out there it blows up! Looking forward to Summer with hopefully some calmer conditions!

Fishman Dan
6th October 2008, 08:22 PM
I have been told that the CCR can only be maxed at 2 above the ACR, but I guess this proves that wrong

I think it's the other way - the lowest it can go is 2 below the ACR.

Ocean Shores on a Blue Marker Challenge day was 76 last I played it (par 72).

Flowergirl
7th October 2008, 09:17 AM
Women don't have a CCR at the moment. They are trialing using the ACWR for the day - at have done so for the past year or so. I've worked out that it has cost me about 4 shots - not entirely from that. We also had tee up on three holes that dropped the CCR to 68 - par is 71. So it has been pretty tough to maintain let alone drop my handicap.

Under the old system I would be off 14 instead of 17. Don't know if that is good or bad. Bad I think - who am I kidding - I would much rather be able to say I play off 14 than 17.:mrgreen:

Scottt
7th October 2008, 09:44 AM
how do you know what the CCR would have been each comp day for the past year?

If the men went from using CCR to ACR I am certain my handicap would be lower, probably by about three-quarters of a shot or so.

shazza_rs
7th October 2008, 09:57 AM
Because of the system the ladies are using I've dropped from 15 to 11. North course at nudgee is rated 73 (par 72) and south course is rated 72 (par 72). I don't understand why they need a CCR. You are playing against par. If you break it you should break your handicap. If you don't shoot par and aren't in the buffer zone then you deserve to go out your 0.1. Who cares how Joe Bloggs went on the day.

Scottt
7th October 2008, 10:06 AM
Shazza, I am inclined to agree, but I think the reason for the CCR system is to ensure that you don't end up having too much disparity between the skill level of a 12 marker at course X compared to a 12 marker at course y.

It would be nice to know what you're playing against before you start, though.

Andrew
7th October 2008, 10:20 AM
Because of the system the ladies are using I've dropped from 15 to 11. North course at nudgee is rated 73 (par 72) and south course is rated 72 (par 72). I don't understand why they need a CCR. You are playing against par. If you break it you should break your handicap. If you don't shoot par and aren't in the buffer zone then you deserve to go out your 0.1. Who cares how Joe Bloggs went on the day.

ACR is worked out off the plates. At some courses this wouldn’t make much difference. At others it makes a lot of difference. There were also many courses that use to work the ‘Daily Course Rating’ out very poorly.

The only way to combat this would be to switch to the ‘Slope’ system, but that has its problems as well.

Flowergirl
7th October 2008, 10:23 AM
I'm not really sooking. That's the system that we use and that's that. Funny thing is that a few years ago I was having the opposite problem. The CCR was always really low and I was coming in with good scores but didn't break. When I think about it it probably was more the tee up situation and preferred lies that screwed me.

Scott - the reason I know what the CCR would have been is that I do the cards for my club so I always work it out just for the hell of it.;)

Ned
12th October 2008, 04:58 PM
There will always be arguments for and against the CCR and ACR system.

As a person who has been a Course Rating Official for a number of years, you will find that the ACR figure is predominately worked out on length.

This rating can then be dramatically affected if you do not have significant difficulty factors. Meaning that if you do not hit a certain number of difficulty points for hazards, landing zones, putting green difficulty etc, your distance rating can be reduce further.

http://admin.golfaustralia.org.au/site/_content/document/00007057-source.pdf

With regards to how high can a CCR go, usually (as stated in an earlier thread response) it will not go 2 above or 1 below the ACR. If there are less then 20 players in the competition then it will automatically be the Courses ACR.

The only time that I have known it to be different is when the winning player of the competition playing a course with an ACR of 72 has for example a nett 75. What then happens is that the CCR will then be 76 so as that the player is then handicapped for wining the competition.

Yes he hasn't broken his handicap against the par, but thats the rules that have been put in place by the powers to be.

It's like players off a handicap of 4.4 or less will go out .2 each time they don't break their handicap or submit a competition card. This was done to ensure that players are not " hanging on" to their handicap or to actually ensure that they are playing to meet it or better it.

http://admin.golfaustralia.org.au/site/_content/document/00007049-source.pdf