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amanda
22nd November 2004, 10:11 AM
Hi everyone - I have a tricky situation in my club matchplay I'd like some advice on.

Here is my side of the draw:
http://img30.exs.cx/img30/5107/matchplay.jpg

The quarter final (1st column) was to be played by 3rd October. This was fine for me as I won and advanced to the semis (2nd column).

The problem arose with Players C & D - Player C believed the match should be played by 3 Oct. Player D was adamant that the match was due by 21 November. Player D is an extremely pushy individual and Player C accepted her decision. This was incorrect as the match was to be played by 3 October.

C & D played their match on weekend of 13/14 November (1 month past it's due date) with D winning.

I tried to organise the match between D & myself as soon as I found out she won (Thursday evening just gone) but she said Saturday's booking sheet was full and Sunday she was playing elsewhere. Instead we have organised to play this coming Sunday (28 Nov) - 1 week after the due date for the match.

I explained all of this to the Ladies Match Committee and they said the rules state that any match not played by the due date results in the player at the top of the draw going through or both may disqualify themselves.

After hearing this yesterday afternoon at the Ladies Committee, they decided that I now go through to the Grand Final.

This seemed to be made on 2 points. The first being that even though their match was played late, I tried to organise the match as soon as I had an opponent (4 days notice before the due date) but D declined - hence Player D forfeited. The 2nd point was that the match they played was illegal as it was after the due date - therefore both C & D are DQd.

Now - this makes sense to me - but was the Committe right? Are matches played after the due date illegal/invalid? Once the Committee makes a decision does it stand? Can I expect Player D to try and appeal (or something similar)?

Thanks guys - this is really stressing me out!

AndyP
22nd November 2004, 10:40 AM
Now - this makes sense to me - but was the Committe right? Are matches played after the due date illegal/invalid? Once the Committee makes a decision does it stand? Can I expect Player D to try and appeal (or something similar)?

Thanks guys - this is really stressing me out!
Firstly, no need to stress out. The decision is out of your hands.

I don't think this is something covered by the rules, Mandy. The committee would be the ones who would make the decisions on this, so I would think that their decision is the one that would stand no matter what.

On the other hand, my club had a lot more relaxed attitude towards this. For my recent matchplay event, all three of my last matches were played after the due date. I think we ended up about a month out.
Some of the other matchplay comps were even further behind. :shock:

For us, it was just a matter of discussing it with the club, as we went. And trying to get the matches played as soon as we could.

Fishman Dan
22nd November 2004, 10:47 AM
This other person is a nutbag if she thinks she can set her own agenda. The first match should have been declared null and void being 4 weeks late, with you getting the walkover into the GF. That would have caused all of the controversy in the previous round. I wonder how many times the previous opponent attempted to set up the match?

amanda
22nd November 2004, 10:53 AM
I wonder how many times the previous opponent attempted to set up the match?
They were both going to Europe in October - so Player C wanted it played before the trip - she tried to convince Player D once when they were at the Clubhouse one evening, but Player D objective, misread the draw and insisted they play once they get back. However, once they were both back in the country - it was another 3 weeks at least before they got organised - and only because I kept calling them to find out the result! (I think at that point I shoudl have just asked for the "walkover" - I know for next time now)

Keza_G
22nd November 2004, 11:46 AM
Amanda, have been in this situation before.... If the committe deems that the match must be played before or on a certain date, then anything outside this is deemed null/void.

If a player does not adhere to the instructions of the committee or produce a valid and acceptable reason to the committee for their independance on this issue, then the committee may disqualify a player immediately upon discovering their default. Once a decision is made by the committee then this decision is law... :P :P

If a committee was to change their mind on this issue :roll: it will defeat the whole purpose of them being there to make such judgements, if they flip flopped over a little pressure from a member then there should be a vote of no confidence in the committee and the entire committee dismissed from their ranks.

Don't worry about the "Player D", if she can't play in the allotted time, she's out, plain & simple. If she complains, she's clutching straws.... Tell to come play against me... i'll sort her out... :lol:

Good Luck in your Final..... I'd love to be there and be your caddie, if you need one....

Cheers

Keza

amanda
22nd November 2004, 12:35 PM
Thanks Keri! Good to know what to do - golf club politics seems to be very nasty :?

markTHEblake
22nd November 2004, 01:01 PM
but was the Committe right?

Yep, the conditions of play were outlined before the start of the event.
You obviously won by forfeit on two counts. Dont Stress.

Your situation is not unusual in matchplay events. If a game has to be played by say Sunday, and A says he can only play Saturday, and B says he can only play Sunday - who forfeits? This is a grey area.

I have also seen a case where a player A has said to B, I cant play on Sunday, i forfeit. B gleefully accepts and doesnt admit that he couldnt have played on that Sunday either.

I think most clubs have learned there lessons, and defined that all matches be played on the Saturday and at an allocated time slot, unless mutually agreed to a prior date. If the qualifiers are played on Saturdays then its not a problem.

andylo
22nd November 2004, 02:36 PM
Hmm... ok... :roll:

So is that mean we have a new club match play hero now? :wink:

amanda
22nd November 2004, 03:14 PM
Hmm... ok... :roll:

So is that mean we have a new club match play hero now? :wink:
Maybe after next Wednesday :)

Fishman Dan
22nd November 2004, 03:16 PM
Hmm... ok... :roll:

So is that mean we have a new club match play hero now? :wink:
Maybe after next Wednesday :)

Now is that date agreed on, or are you waiting for confirmation?!

amanda
22nd November 2004, 03:20 PM
Now is that date agreed on, or are you waiting for confirmation?!
Tentative date - I will confirm with my opponent on Wednesday at our Annual Christmas Hams Day.

amanda
22nd November 2004, 05:57 PM
I am now officially LIVID :evil: :evil: :evil:

Apparently the Ladies Committee has no right to make the decision it did and I would have to lodge a complaint with the Match Committee of the club.

The General Manager has informed me that the result of Player C & D must stand for the following reason:

* The ladies informally run their matchplay comp with no set date to play, just a day it must be played by. Results are handwritten on the draw located on a noticeboard in the Club.

* Players C & D played their match while I was on holidays (6th to 14th of Nov) and the result was placed on the Noticeboard

* Because the result was on the noticeboard for a "decent period" then the result was deemed to be "accepted" and therefore the outcome must stand (as per Rule 2-5)

Apparently this can't be changed.

So now - I have to decide whether I want to lodge a dispute over the match that was to be played on Sunday (semi final) - even though it was past the due date. Here are my thoughts

* I let both C & D know before I went away that I was waiting for a result of their match because our match had to be played before the 21st of November

* When I returned I called Player C to find out the result and she told me Player D had won. I then contacted player D on Thursday to organise a time to play the match. Player D asked if I was able to play Saturday - I said "I was going to the NSW Open but I can cancel to play the match". She replied something to the effect of "don't worry as there won't be any spots left in the Saturday comp". Player D also wasn't available to play Sunday as she had arranged to play at another club. I then suggested the following Sunday - which was accepted.

* Effectively, did Player D forfeit the match as they did not agree to play by the stipulated date?

* And did I void this forfeit by accepting to play at a later date?

I'm not sure how successful my claim would be to make the other player forfeit and I need to decide by tonight so that the Match Committee can convene.

I might just forfeit out of spite - coz if I go through lodging a dispute and then get overruled, play this person and then lose, I'm going to look very stupid indeed.

HELP!!!

amanda
22nd November 2004, 08:41 PM
After much chatting with many folks (thanks Keza_G, onewood, drunken) - I believe I have grounds to request Player D to be DQd because the match wasn't played by a certain date.

amanda
22nd November 2004, 09:12 PM
Ok - made my decision. Spoke to Player D on the phone - she conceded that she got the dates wrong and their match should have been played earlier. I told her that I had grounds to disqualify her but would like to play the match anyway.

I take more honour out of it this way - and she will feel bad coz I could DQ her but I didn't.

The ladies group is so small (20 ppl) that this could have been a real shit-fight - hence, like any good person who wishes to rule one day, I will keep the peace - but by gods when I've finished my PhD, I'll take over the captaincy and they'll rue the day I was crossed :twisted:

McMw
22nd November 2004, 09:19 PM
great decision amanda....

and if the worst does happen (touch wood)...you'll still come out better for the experience...and I'm sure a lot of ppl at the club (and elsewhere) would have even more respect for you....

I know I have... :D

Jarro
22nd November 2004, 09:19 PM
you are truly awesome Amanda, where do you get the energy from :?

good luck in the match.. and if there is any justice in the world ... you'll win it easily.

GOOD LUCK :D i'll be thinking of ya :wink:

markTHEblake
22nd November 2004, 09:43 PM
Effectively, did Player D forfeit the match as they did not agree to play by the stipulated date?

Perhaps you would both be disqualified becuase you both agreed not to play by the stipulated date.

As you can see, this is a difficult scenario. When Dr White becomes Captain White I can see that the first job on her agenda is to make the match play rules much clearer, so this cannot happen again.

The one thing that you need to be carefull of is when actively pursuing the disqualification of another player, whilst being in the right your name may become mud.

Better to simply seek the assistance from the Match committee and just give them the facts. Sit back and let them make a decision. Then your 'honour' remains intact, as your only excuse for going to the committee was becuase you didnt know, rather than trying to hang someone.

Glad to see you have sorted it out, the last thing we want to see is Mini Wie turning into a big green Incredible Wie.

amanda
22nd November 2004, 09:58 PM
Thanks for the advice Blakey. We are such a small group of ladies and I could see them turning on me for not letting someone "slide" - I love my golf course too much for that to happen.

AndyP
23rd November 2004, 08:23 AM
I told her that I had grounds to disqualify her but would like to play the match anyway.

Definitely the right decision, Mandy. :smt023 After all, you're not playing for sheep stations and you can't afford to be getting people offside.

In my recent matchplay event, I got sick of doing all of the organising of the rounds with my opponents to try and get them completed as early as possible. However, DQing them never crossed my mind.

The ladies committee are pretty stupid to be handing down rulings that are wrong. :smt011