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JustSneaky
1st August 2008, 08:29 AM
When giving a course review.

Coastal northern NSW,golf courses V's population it doesn't get much better. I can play almost any time at any one of 7 courses and sometimes be the only one on the course. (there's the first clue).

Nine out of ten clubs up here are running on a shoe string budget,struggling to stay afloat,and running on rediculous loses.So the courses an't perfect,and alot of the improvments are done by volunteers.

My beaf is not with this forum,however there is other sites that think a review is a chance to crewly judge,and not consider how lucky they are to be standing on a uncrowded tee.

Hey! You won't find a more welcoming friendly area,for a round.

sms316
1st August 2008, 08:32 AM
Sorry - a dog track is a dog track.

markTHEblake
1st August 2008, 08:42 AM
Justsneaky, I agree. I would much rather play an established country golf course. There is just something about a course that has evolved over 50 years or so that is attractive to me. My policy is, if the Course Name is not the name of the town it is located in, i view it with disdain :-)

Played Sawtell last year, loved it. And most of the players stayed for the presentation, i havent seen more than 5 people at a presentation for 10 years.

I have also heard very good wraps for Yamba. They have a very popular 36 hole open that a few gold coasters head to every year.

JustSneaky
1st August 2008, 08:47 AM
Sorry, I'm not sure what greyhounds have to do with this.But I have never played a course that needed bagging.

Constuctive criticism is all we ask.

Sydney Hacker
1st August 2008, 08:56 AM
A bad golf course is better then no golf course at all....

Growing up in country Qld, you came across some "goat tracks" but at least there was still a golf course to play on.

3oneday
1st August 2008, 08:58 AM
What track ?

BrisVegas
1st August 2008, 09:00 AM
Fair enough sneaky. Ozgolf is not Golf Digest, Golf Australia or any such publication though. It's a free forum with no sponsors and the members are (pretty much) free to say whatever they like about whatever topic they choose. That's probably the best aspect to this site.

We've only got a handful of course reviews in the course review section, but if someone has slighted a course that you hold dearly, then jump in and defend it. It's your right!

Scottt
1st August 2008, 09:02 AM
These are all good points, and as someone with a soft spot for Henbury Golf Club in the NSW Central West town of Kandos - run and maintained exclusively by volunteers - I can see where you're coming from.

But.

A course review, at least a good one, should simply describe, critique and rate a course for what it is.

If the course is in poor nick, is poorly routed or has other failings, that should still be noted.

JustSneaky
1st August 2008, 09:04 AM
Yeh,Markthe..Sawtel is a nice course and typical social enviroment of smaller country clubs.At Bellingen we have a skins event every Friday arvo.Between 10 and 15 of us 50cent holes and all the sledging one can dish,on course and back at the club house.(we play as one group)no hassles:smt038

markTHEblake
1st August 2008, 09:11 AM
Yeah we used to play skins like that in Darwin years ago, i think the record was 40 in one group. At one time we played green cans (VB) for a Skin. I got 36 cans with one eagle :-) My proudest golf moment.

The only problem with the large skins group was any social players around, cos they held up the skins game, i heard there was one one time a group of 20 played through :-)

BrisVegas
1st August 2008, 09:14 AM
Back when I was at uni in Toowooma, I'd play in the Friday afternoon chook-run in a group with anywhere from 10-20 players. Rarely would it take more than 2 hours to play 9 holes though. Everyone would just hit when ready and keep moving. fun stuff.

henno
1st August 2008, 09:20 AM
A course review, at least a good one, should simply describe, critique and rate a course for what it is.

If the course is in poor nick, is poorly routed or has other failings, that should still be noted.

Yeah, maybe. But only up to a point.

If everything was reviewed based purely on the product alone, and not with some sort of consideration for the circumstances surrounding it, then only the most expensive items would every be looked upon highly.

If this were the case, every Toyota Corolla review would call it a dog, because compared to a Bentley or Maybach they are just not up to scratch.

Sure, fault a course when it has faults, but some level of consideration needs to be sprinkled on a review - be it price, location, atmosphere or otherwise.

JustSneaky
1st August 2008, 09:21 AM
Ok,it was Bellingen GC,and it was "iseek" that did the inaccurate! bagging.

1.It was the middle of winter,(the course not at its best)
2.We were just recovering from a flood that moved two golf holes to the pacific ocean.
3.They said we have no scenery,It's the Bellingen Valley ffs!!
4.We have Bunkers,we have water hazards,(they said we havn't)
5.The course was in the middle the new layout revamp.

And further more........l:-k

BrisVegas
1st August 2008, 09:28 AM
iseekgolf is NOT the same as ozgolf.

JustSneaky
1st August 2008, 09:33 AM
Did not mean to infer that. Was just sayin.

Scottt
1st August 2008, 09:36 AM
Sure, fault a course when it has faults, but some level of consideration needs to be sprinkled on a review - be it price, location, atmosphere or otherwise.

I probably didn't explain my first post well enough. By "for what it is" I meant if it's a country course, review it as such. But its faults still need to be noted. You wouldn't approach Sawtell GC with the same expectation as NSWGC, but if there is a shit hole or dead fairway, you still need to say so.

As far as the course reviews on iseek, the rating system is bullshit. There are bush tracks with sandgreens rated three stars and St Micks might only have three stars. Allowing each reviewer to give their own rating, when everyone has different standards, is bound to end up with a bullshit comparison.

markTHEblake
1st August 2008, 10:02 AM
Yeah good point Scottt.

A sand green course in the bush is obviously in the 1 Star category. however you can objectively rank within that category.

And i have never played a goat track, but I expect i have played several that the snobs would turn their nose up at.

One of the most enjoyable layouts i have played is in Krambach NSW (near Taree) A $5 honour box, square greens with barbed wire fence surrounding them, and the odd cow wandering about. It was designed by the farmer who owns the land and he still maintains it - voluntarily. For what the course is, its 5 star.

Sydney Hacker
1st August 2008, 10:43 AM
I would have to agree with the comment about not having played a goat track... I don't think there is such a thing as a bad golf course, just some were better then others.

I played at one country course in Qld where they handed you a mallet at the proshop, just you could get your tees into the ground for the compulsory tee up. That round was still a lot of fun, but a lot of people would not even bother playing it because they are "golf snobs".

sms316
1st August 2008, 10:47 AM
I would have to agree with the comment about not having played a goat track... I don't think there is such a thing as a bad golf course, just some were better then others.

You've never played Cootamundra then.

sms316
1st August 2008, 11:05 AM
I still think there are a lot of inept course superintendants out there who conveniently use the drought as an excuse for their poor performance.

Dotty
1st August 2008, 11:24 AM
Ignore it Sneaky. Getting golf advice from that site is like getting medical advice from Big Brother.

3oneday
1st August 2008, 01:21 PM
I still think there are a lot of inept course superintendants out there who conveniently use the drought as an excuse for their poor performance.MacGrange springs to mind here :p

Grunt
1st August 2008, 01:44 PM
MacGrange springs to mind here :p

They are now maintaining a lot of Sydney Courses now too.


Liverpool
Fox Hills
Mac GrangeNot sure of the others but I bet there are. I think the company is called Resorts Management

swanny
1st August 2008, 02:15 PM
Blakey, you are indeed hounoured krambach is an absolute gem. years ago they used to have an open day and it was the best open day on the Lower north coast.

markTHEblake
1st August 2008, 05:20 PM
I still think there are a lot of inept course superintendants out there who conveniently use the drought as an excuse for their poor performance.

You are being a bit harsh there, cos its very unlikely a bush track will have an experienced greenkeeper, and possibly even only have a groundsman.


Blakey, you are indeed hounoured krambach is an absolute gem. years ago they used to have an open day and it was the best open day on the Lower north coast.

Yeah, I remember that well, I played in it as my first competition when i came out of retirement and the 3rd 9 killed me.. crawled up that hill on the 9th on my hands and knees.

When I was visiting Tallwoods during its construction, I met with the Yank in charge (not the Herdzen but his righthand onsite guy that actually did the work) and we talked about it and he was absolutely in admiration for Krambach, not only did he say it was an excellent design but that he was jealous there are no courses in USA like that. I was fairly impressed that he had actually visited it let alone thought highly of it.

JustSneaky
1st August 2008, 06:26 PM
Wow I lived at Dyers Crossing,for nearly a year and never knew they had a GC. Talking 28years ago memories faded,Krambach and Dyers Crossing,side by side I think:-k

markTHEblake
1st August 2008, 06:33 PM
I have never heard of Dyers Crossing - but i see it on the map now. I cant pick out the golf course, but Krambach is pretty hard as well even if you know where to look.

I was living in Forster-Tuncurry for 3 years in the 90's but never lived anywhere else in NSW so didnt really know much about the place].

jimandr
1st August 2008, 06:54 PM
I'd love to rubbish Bellingen, but I've never played it. The best I can do is say that the town is full of space cadets and ex-hippies, but surrounded by sensational scenery.

The drive from Raleigh to Dorrigo in October, when the jacarandas are in full bloom, is perhaps the best hour you can spend in a car in Australia.

I wouldn't call myself a reviewer as such, but I have provided my opinion on ISG quite a few times. I can find the positives in almost any course, and I don't think I've ever given a course one star. I know of quite a few that only deserve one star, but I think Sneaky's point is correct in saying there is no point in being destructive for the sake of it. So I say nothing about those courses.

I think the original intention of the ISG system was to generate a lot of ratings, thus getting a true consensus of opinion. But it didn't work out that way.

JustSneaky
1st August 2008, 07:29 PM
Hmm very observent jimandr.The inhabitants,scenery pretty well sumed up.

shavey
2nd August 2008, 04:25 AM
Ok,it was Bellingen GC,and it was "iseek" that did the inaccurate! bagging.

iseek don't do any of their own course reviews but instead leave it open for public debate. Having worked in the industry, you can take these 'reviews' personally but need to realise that not everybody might not love your particular course for whatever reason.

It's unfortunate that more people don't post reviews, highlighted by the fact that the post to which you refer is over two years old. A lot can happen to a course in that time and people need to be made aware of these changes.

JustSneaky
2nd August 2008, 06:45 AM
Ok good point Shavey,iseek are off the hook,and your right there have been some changes.My point was to help people understand the struggle these little country clubs are having to stay afloat.And that ONE inaccurate review could send the next and future bus load of golfers right past that course where every dollar/cent counts.

$15 for unlimited uncrowed holes,..give 'em a break.

If you pay $100 or $200 and not happy by all means........

Grunt
2nd August 2008, 07:00 AM
Hey JustSneaky you can have a mid coast champs with Coffs Hacker. He is a member of Coffs Harbour.

JustSneaky
2nd August 2008, 07:08 AM
Well thankyou very much for sponsoring the next mid north champs Grunt.! I'll let you know how it pans out.

markTHEblake
2nd August 2008, 07:54 AM
Some of those Iseek golf reviews are extremely scathing, to the point of being abusive - i struggle to understand why they are not moderated.

Andrew
2nd August 2008, 08:24 AM
Some of those Iseek golf reviews are extremely scathing, to the point of being abusive - i struggle to understand why they are not moderated.
I love the ones where some guy talks up the course, then posts again a month later, then again & so on, just to get the star rating up. You just know the guy is talking up his own course.

All in all it funny stuff & not to be taken seriously. I remember reading one for Glenmore Heritage where the guy reviewed it like it was on par with Pine Valley, then said they are hoping it will make the next Top 100 list. Funny stuff!

markTHEblake
2nd August 2008, 08:32 AM
I concur that one should take all those subjective reviews with a grain of salt, and I am sure any reasonable person treats a bad review with a degree of skepticism anyway.

Still hurts to see someone flame your own course. One clown bagged my course and the club itself, and a couple of other local ones, and from the circular references he made show that didn't come from 'pedigree stock' himself - loser.

I tried to correct that review, objectively of course but seems i have had my posting rights removed :-(

swanny
4th August 2008, 09:53 PM
Blakey make sure we catch up at the Champs.

markTHEblake
4th August 2008, 10:13 PM
Swanny, you may join the queue.