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virge666
11th June 2008, 11:37 AM
Now - I am not usually a fan of technology articles from the manufacturers, as it is usually advertorial. But this guy knows his stuff and he is way up in the food chain for fitting and the tour van. Sort of the Tom Wishon for Callaway.

Another thing of note was that he regarded Titleist Golf balls as being yesterdays technology and that whilst he thought Callaway as good... would you believe he picked Bridgestone as the best ball out there ! Taylormade were a sort of third, with Titleist living off their name... He rated this on consistancy of distance and technology used.

anyway . . .

This article ignored the standard line to hit the ball on the upper half of the clubface... which is also a standard Callaway line.

So when an employee of Callaway starts to bypass the BS - I believe it is worth listening to.

Enjoy

http://eu.callawaygolf.com/ca.cg.Features.DriverTeeHeight.html (http://eu.callawaygolf.com/ca.cg.Features.DriverTeeHeight.html)

BrisVegas
11th June 2008, 11:45 AM
that's good news. I've never been game to try and hit it on the top half of the face. Too much risk of skying it. I'm definitely a "sweeper" and like to play the ball on a tall tee and slap it on the up.

PeteyD
11th June 2008, 11:49 AM
I break tees. Could be because I am retarded though ;) Interesting. With my Burner, I teed it up low. The sumo is 44.5" long and I tee it higher and hit it better. Now for a better shaft and some pine aligning.

Johnny Canuck
11th June 2008, 01:08 PM
good read. thanks virge

poidda
11th June 2008, 02:18 PM
I need longer tees! :roll:

Jono
11th June 2008, 05:09 PM
This article ignored the standard line to hit the ball on the upper half of the clubface... which is also a standard Callaway line.

So when an employee of Callaway starts to bypass the BS - I believe it is worth listening to.


http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8807/tigernh6.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4665/elsbf6.jpg


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3399/garcianm4.jpg

Courty
11th June 2008, 05:48 PM
That one of Sergio's looks like it is out of the heel. :neutral:

Jono
11th June 2008, 06:28 PM
That one of Sergio's looks like it is out of the heel. :neutral:

Yep, I agree.

However, I was more looking at how high/low on the face pros hit.

Jono
11th June 2008, 06:41 PM
http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/7044/singhnz7.jpg

Jono
11th June 2008, 06:47 PM
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6654/immelmanvs6.jpg

virge666
11th June 2008, 07:08 PM
Hey Jono,

This is exactly what I said, but if you think about it he "may" be right. And of your photos.... only Tiger really looks high on the face... the rest are pretty close... especially when you bring loft into it...

So . . . why would he be right ?

1. The center of the clubface has the highest COR
2. Misshits off the center reduce the velocity of the ball, way more than a low spin shot will
3. If you Err above the center - it is WAY WAY WAY better than missing on the bottom. Major differnce there.
4. He is the director of fitting at Callaway. What the hell would he know.
5. You can fit the driver for low spin - high launch off the center of the clubface - no problem there . . .

What evidence do we have that launching off the top is better ? Maybe it is a furfy of the old days when we found out that the balls go further with a higher impact line . . .



Currently, it’s quite common to hear television commentators state that to optimize distance with the new bigger headed drivers you want to hit the ball higher on the club face. That is not true. In fact, hitting the ball high on the clubface in order to achieve optimum launch and spin is an indication of a miss-fit driver because you’re sacrificing ball speed.



I dunno - but he weighs just under 80kg and was FLYING past my mate Michael in the USA last weekend. Let me tell you - not many people do that. Mike can hit Driver 5 iron to the 10th at Long Reef off the plates...

So I am off to check it out. Antonio from Tour Grade golf is in the tour vans this weekend - I will get him to ask around.... Oh and hang on... I will be there....

:)

Jono
11th June 2008, 07:15 PM
Hey Jono,

This is exactly what I said, but if you think about it he "may" be right.

1. The center of the clubface has the highest COR

I didn't say anything about whether he is right or wrong. Just showed what most pros are doing.

Quote from article:

The important things to take from all of this are the following:
1. There is no universally correct tee height
2. Identifying your personal correct tee height will give you the best opportunity to maximize your ball speed
3. When your driver fits you correctly, hitting the ball in the center of the club face will give you optimum ball speed, launch angle and back spin, resulting in maximum distance

If this is the case, then a whole lot of pros are doing the wrong thing.

markTHEblake
11th June 2008, 07:16 PM
maybe those photos are of mishits

virge666
11th June 2008, 07:24 PM
maybe those photos are of mishits

Don't think so . . . just normal shots.

Ever hit a driver low on the clubface . . . it is bloody awful. The shaft doesn't work properly, the clubhead twists and all kinds of bad-ness happens. The ball goes no where.

Ever hit a ball high on the clubface, nothing that bad really happens, she goes a little higher, less spin - you don't really get much bad-ness happening. You don't lose much speed.

Maybe it is just simple conditioning. Erring upstairs is way better than erring downstairs - so hit it a touch above to ensure you don't hit it low.

That sort of makes sense to me . . . wonder where the long driving boys are hitting it . . .

LongDownunderGolf
11th June 2008, 08:05 PM
OK. So part of my income comes from the ability to maximise length out of the driver.

You MUST err higher on the face rather than lower. Correctly fit, yes hit it ever so slightly above middle like the pro's have, but high in the face will ALWAYS win.

Jono
11th June 2008, 08:16 PM
OK. So part of my income comes from the ability to maximise length out of the driver.

You MUST err higher on the face rather than lower. Correctly fit, yes hit it ever so slightly above middle like the pro's have, but high in the face will ALWAYS win.

So from your experience, shots slightly above middle go further than dead off the center?

virge666
11th June 2008, 08:19 PM
So from your experience, shots slightly above middle go further than dead off the center?

Another query . . . What is dead center ?

The crown of the club is curved . . . the sole of the club is usually quite flat.

So isn't the center of the face plate actually above the centerline when viewing from the angle like on swingvision ?

And second query - what is the difference it makes to the ball. High on the clubface is just maybe half to a degree of more loft due to the roll of the clubface... and will have a lower COR than the middle . . .

The ball doesn't know what hit it... so why does a ball hit higher on the clubface go further ?

Edit: Just had a look at my Nike SQ Tour, Titty 905T and Taylor R580.. and on ALL of them, the ACTUAL center line as measured by a ruler is between 1 and 3mm above the centre markings on the club.

BrisVegas
11th June 2008, 08:36 PM
those photos just prove what a flusher Ernie Els is.

Jono
11th June 2008, 09:29 PM
So isn't the center of the face plate actually above the centerline when viewing from the angle like on swingvision ?


You are thinking too hard. If you look at all the Swing Vision pictures of impact, almost all pros hit above center. It is obvious. If you really want to measure center, then you have to work out where the COG of the clubhead is.


And second query - what is the difference it makes to the ball. High on the clubface is just maybe half to a degree of more loft due to the roll of the clubface... and will have a lower COR than the middle . . .

The ball doesn't know what hit it... so why does a ball hit higher on the clubface go further ?


Tom Wishon isn't a fan of the vertical gear effect theory, but not many people in the industry agree with him. If you hit slightly above COG line of the clubhead, you will launch the ball higher and also decrease the spin. The ball speed might be slightly less, but the launch angle and the spin more than makes up for it.


Edit: Just had a look at my Nike SQ Tour, Titty 905T and Taylor R580.. and on ALL of them, the ACTUAL center line as measured by a ruler is between 1 and 3mm above the centre markings on the club.

Don't measure with a ruler. Measure with the COG device.

PeteyD
12th June 2008, 07:08 AM
You are thinking too hard.

Coming from you this is the funniest post of the year!!

:mrgreen:

virge666
12th June 2008, 07:20 AM
If you hit slightly above COG line of the clubhead, you will launch the ball higher and also decrease the spin.


Why is this ?

Why not just build the club with a lower COG and hit it out of the centre where you will get the most ball speed ?




Don't measure with a ruler. Measure with the COG device.

Then why are we looking at Swingvision shots, maybe the player are hitting the ball exactly where the COG is . . .

LongDownunderGolf
12th June 2008, 08:31 AM
a little above centre is normally almost exacty where the C.O.G is so yeah I want people to hit it slightly above the visual centre of the face.

E.G. I had an Alpha driver I played with for 6 or 8 months a few years back with the black carbite? finish on the face. There was an obvious mark about 1/3 inch towards the toe where I always hit it. This was the centre of gravity of this head and its hottest point.

SupaSubi
12th June 2008, 08:42 AM
Why not just build the club with a lower COG and hit it out of the centre where you will get the most ball speed ?

if you lower the COG, will the max COR of the face still be in the centre of the face, or will it lower? :-s

Jono
12th June 2008, 07:09 PM
Why is this ?
Why not just build the club with a lower COG and hit it out of the centre where you will get the most ball speed ?


Hibore attempted to do that.



Then why are we looking at Swingvision shots, maybe the player are hitting the ball exactly where the COG is . . .

If you want to argue the exact level of the COG, the modern drivers have COG levels on or slightly lower than the marked center of the face. You can ask a club manufacturer or do a search on the internet. Just because the crown bulges up does NOT mean the COG is higher than the marked center of the club. The crown weighs next to nothing in modern drivers compared to the sole. Looking at the driver head profile and trying to find the mid-point from the top of the crown to the bottom of the sole is nowhere near the COG level in modern clubs.

If you find one modern driver head with a COG level higher than the marked center, please let me know. I'll know which driver to avoid. :razz: :lol:

virge666
12th June 2008, 08:42 PM
If you find one modern driver head with a COG level higher than the marked center, please let me know. I'll know which driver to avoid. :razz: :lol:

yeah all that makes sense . . .

I will ask over in the tour vans and get a consensus. We need some Machine testing - Iron Byron Style.

Jarro
8th January 2012, 06:44 PM
Well i've just started teeing the ball a lot lower with the driver, and have found the results to be most excellent :)

TourFit
8th January 2012, 07:46 PM
yeah all that makes sense . . .

I will ask over in the tour vans and get a consensus. We need some Machine testing - Iron Byron Style.

Give all drivers to iGolf for testing on his range...he knows everything else, why not this too?

Jarro
8th January 2012, 07:48 PM
Give all drivers to iGolf for testing on his range...he knows everything else, why not this too?

He's gone mate .... you can't ask him any more questions ;)

TourFit
8th January 2012, 07:53 PM
Aw...really?

:smt038

I kinda liked him. Nevermind.

:smt039

Minor_Threat
8th January 2012, 07:54 PM
I have always thought the top half was the best place to strike a driver. Does anyone knoe what the latest theories are on this?

Stuartd147
8th January 2012, 08:01 PM
I have been teeing lower for a few weeks now and getting good results with Nike VR, I only tee it up a bit for a high draw....Stu

oz
8th January 2012, 08:09 PM
Well i've just started teeing the ball a lot lower with the driver, and have found the results to be most excellent :)

Me too. Helps me stay down, and through into my left side.

LowTee
9th January 2012, 11:36 AM
Great thread

sms316
9th January 2012, 12:26 PM
Well i've just started teeing the ball a lot lower with the driver, and have found the results to be most excellent :)
Of course you do. Everything is now in proportion.

Jono
9th January 2012, 12:45 PM
Of course you do. Everything is now in proportion.

So you use a wide tee then? :wink:

Jarro
9th January 2012, 12:51 PM
So you use a wide tee then? :wink:

:lol:

TheNuclearOne
9th January 2012, 01:38 PM
Word on tour apparently is that the lower tee leads to a straighter miss. Whether true or not who knows.

Jarro
9th January 2012, 02:03 PM
Word on tour apparently is that the lower tee leads to a straighter miss. Whether true or not who knows.

Sounds about right.

All i know is it seems to work for me so i'll stick with it :)