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2nd March 2015 10:57 PM
#276
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
Matt 3 Jab
They haven't seen the short game haha!
Nah I can putt now
I agree Benno.
Matt 2-with-a-slight-chance-of-3 jab?
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4th March 2015 01:50 PM
#277
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
Matt 3 Jab
An update to this and kooindah waters situation.
The course has just been re rated by golf australia. Old rating was 72/131 off plates and now it's 73/133. Not a big difference but it'll mean it can't rate under 70 on medal day
The big change is the white tees going from 70/125 to 72/128 meaning it can't rate 5 under par anymore
Not sure if / how it'll all play out but they are going back through 12 months of handicaps and readjusting each round to these new standards.
Handicap will go down, across the board, which hopefully will mean less massive scores and higher DSR. But with the slopes going up as well it seems to cancel itself out
Anyway it was in response to members getting the shits with the low DSR so maybe other clubs can do the same and be re rated
Came back at the right time then
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4th March 2015 09:14 PM
#278
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
This whole thread confused the b'jesus out of me. How can a course that is rated theoretically as quite tough (72/131 and now 73/133) play under DSR in a back marker event?
Is it a flaw in the rating system similar to what Bruce pointed out with Cape Schank, where it is simply because of the placement of hazards in "rating" locations rather than actual difficulty of play that brings about the high slope?
I was a member at Bribie which in the old system was rated as PAR72/ACR73. A blue marker event would see ball run down out to 74/75 a lot of the time. Under the slope it is 72/130 off the blues and scores improved but handicaps have gone out a fair bit. Still DSR does not go down massive amounts from the limited amount I look at my Dad's GLink.
So what gives????
Cheers
Craig
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4th March 2015 09:29 PM
#279
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
Hux
This whole thread confused the b'jesus out of me. How can a course that is rated theoretically as quite tough (72/131 and now 73/133) play under DSR in a back marker event?
Summer. dry fairways, ball goes further.
nuthin. so many people whined about the old handicap system too.
--
Criticism doesn't bother me, as it means I am doing something and people are watching.
Handy-Cap
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5th March 2015 08:18 AM
#280
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
These days, your handicap will be higher if you play in comps where the burglars are trying. It's sad how the play of others has a bearing on your hcp. I would prefer it to be me against the course. The cheats would then bother me less.
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5th March 2015 08:27 AM
#281
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
Rodent
It's sad how the play of others has a bearing on your hcp..
That's how it has been in Australian handicapping system for more than 25 years. Why do you think it was better when the Captain decided what the DCR was, using nothing but his personal subjective opinion?
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5th March 2015 08:31 AM
#282
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Originally Posted by
markTHEblake
That's how it has been in Australian handicapping system for more than 25 years. Why do you think it was better when the Captain decided what the DCR was, using nothing but his personal subjective opinion?
I never played under that system. The ccr combined with the old hcp system was better than dsr is under the current system. The current best 8 of 20 is burglars paradise. They can try much more often without damaging their inflated hcp. That's a FACT.
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5th March 2015 08:32 AM
#283
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
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5th March 2015 08:34 AM
#284
Senior Member
Major Winner
Home course rating easy rant
Originally Posted by
Rodent
I never played under that system. The ccr combined with the old hcp system was better than dsr is under the current system. The current best 8 of 12 is burglars paradise. They can try much more often without damaging their inflated hcp. That's a FACT.
Did you play under the 12.5% or whatever it was system?
How long since it's been anything other than 8 out of 20?
Last edited by 3Puttpete; 5th March 2015 at 08:34 AM.
Reason: wot
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5th March 2015 08:37 AM
#285
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Yes, 12.5%. Wild guess...7 years?
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5th March 2015 08:38 AM
#286
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
It was 10/20 a couple of years back. Getting 0.1 back for a bad round I'm guessing was 7 years ago.
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5th March 2015 08:40 AM
#287
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
Rodent
I never played under that system. The ccr combined with the old hcp system was better than dsr is under the current system. .
How is the old DSR system better, when your main argument is that the new DSR is "sad how the play of others has a bearing on your hcp"
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5th March 2015 08:41 AM
#288
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
Rodent
It's sad how the play of others has a bearing on your hcp.
Originally Posted by
Rodent
Yes, 12.5%. Wild guess...7 years?
This is where I struggle to figure out whatever point you're trying to make.
Didn't the 12.5% affect your hcp?
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5th March 2015 08:42 AM
#289
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Because burglars couldn't play well as often if they wanted to keep their hcp
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5th March 2015 08:44 AM
#290
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
Rodent
Because burglars couldn't play well as often if they wanted to keep their hcp
So it's the extra 2 out of 20 rounds that kept them honest?
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5th March 2015 08:47 AM
#291
Senior Member
Major Winner
Seems to me like you're enforcing the Ambrose rule because your handicap isn't as low as you think it should be. Maybe you're just not that good.
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5th March 2015 08:53 AM
#292
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Under the current system, you could get 45 stableford pts every 4th round and not see a drop in your hcp. Under the old system, a c grader would lose 3.6 each time they scored 45 (assuming ccr=par) and only get 0.1 back for each bad round. Hence they couldn't “try“ as often.
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5th March 2015 08:56 AM
#293
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
Rodent
Under the current system, you could get 45 stableford pts every 4th round and not see a drop in your hcp.
This might be correct over 20 rounds if your next best 4 are no more than 25 points but it's not correct in a shorter timeframe
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5th March 2015 09:02 AM
#294
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
This might be correct? Of course it's correct, we're talking manipulation. The system allows someone to play incredibly well quite often without dropping hcp. Why? Because bad scores count!
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5th March 2015 09:05 AM
#295
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
Rodent
This might be correct? Of course it's correct, we're talking manipulation. The system allows someone to play incredibly well quite often without dropping hcp. Why? Because bad scores count!
You're talking manipulation. I don't believe a word of it.
Accept you're a chopper and move on or play social golf and make up your own hcp.
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5th March 2015 09:12 AM
#296
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
I can't believe all the BS in this thread.
The system is the way it is because that is what Golf Australia decided.
Like it or not every amateur golfer in the country is subject to the same conditions.
Yes there are cheats out there just like there is in every other sport ever played by mankind.
If you don't like it, don't play!
Golflink
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5th March 2015 09:45 AM
#297
Admin Team
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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5th March 2015 09:48 AM
#298
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
My comments refer to the current system being more beneficial to manipulators than the old system. They are able to try more often. This in turn impacts dsr at courses where manipulators are over represented. What's that got to do with my ability? Whether I'm off 6 or 4 won't change much. I'm just commenting on my observations. Some courses have realistic dsr and some don't. The ones that don't seem to have lots of blokes who dread losing a shot.
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5th March 2015 11:04 AM
#299
Senior Member
Touring Pro (European Tour)
Originally Posted by
Rodent
Under the current system, you could get 45 stableford pts every 4th round and not see a drop in your hcp. Under the old system, a c grader would lose 3.6 each time they scored 45 (assuming ccr=par) and only get 0.1 back for each bad round. Hence they couldn't “try“ as often.
I am confused.
For this to occur you are suggesting that mathematically the other 4 counted rounds are going to be in the order of played to 32 for someone on a playing handicap of 22. I would like to see how many golfers would have 4 counting rounds of 45 (ie 13 under handicap) and their next best is 10 over handicap.
As a B grader I have 2 rounds under handicap and my worst of the remaining 6 is 2 rounds within 2 strokes of actual index. I would expect more variance in C grade but not the level you indicate.
Cheers
Craig
WITB
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5th March 2015 11:10 AM
#300
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Hux it was just a hypothetical to show how the current system is much easier to manipulate. Under the old system, 1 good round could shave say 4 shots from a handicap. Then it may take 40 bad rounds to return to the handicap that yielded the good score. Not much fun for a manipulator.
Under the current system, a manipulator can win much more often than they could in the past. Now because good scores don't hurt handicaps like they used to, it is my contention that courses with lots of burglars have DSR's that are too low.
It doesn't affect me much any more because I elect to play where the DSR's are fair dinkum.
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