The new handicap system

[AndyP]

The point trying to be made is that you shouldn't have any expectation of "playing to your handicap" because it is not used for that. It is an equalisation number used for the competition. Forget about handicaps and stableford and worry about your gross score instead.

[wazandnic]

Just to offer another point of view, I am possibly one golfer that doesn't think the new system necessarily makes your h'cap lower. It really depends on the consistency of golfer and how often you play.

I played off between 4-10 for about 20 years early in my career. I could shoot a low score maybe once every 6 months or so and that was all I needed to keep the cap low as it would take min. 10 games to get 1 shot back. i.e. I shot 2 under off the stick playing off 7 once... (equivalent to a 25 marker shooting 16 over, so not that special) but that smashed my handicap and then for the next year I barely played to my handicap getting 0.1 back each week.

Under the new system, that one good game is only going to last 20 rounds at best and so my cap will quickly blow out again and reflect my general week to week game. Since the new cap came in I have hovered around 11-14 handicap and I actually like that I can go to other courses and have a chance of playing to it.

Of course all just my personal experience but just offering up another side to the story... maybe it's that I'm just getting old and not the golfer I once was... but yep just showing it goes against the theory of lower handicaps under the new system.

[jumbuck]

Jumbuck, use the reply with quote function so people know which post you are replying to.

Thanks Andy.

[Dotty]

I have been playing off 9 for the last couple of months and all I need to have is 4 rounds of 34 and 4 of 33 as my best 8 and hey presto I stay on 9.

Assuming a slope of 113, then off 9, four rounds of 34 (11 over) and 4 rounds off 33 (12 over) is an 11.5 average.
Multiplied by .93 gives 10.7, so you won't stay on 9.

You only need to drop 2 points (or one lost ball) in one of those 8 hypothetical rounds and you'd be off 11.
This will probably happen anyway, as the daily handicap gets adjusted after each round. As it crosses the 10.0 threshold and some of the 33 points will be 13 over par, resulting in a handicap of 11 after those 8 games.

The slope is irrelevant as it cancels itself out, because what it takes in the history calculation it gives back in gives in the daily handicap calculation.
Ditto for the DSR.

[LeftyHoges]

PS. I love my golf course and the comraderie of our guys but now am looking for excuses not to play as shooting 32s is a waste of time.

So saying this means you don't expect to play to your handicap every time you go out?

Now you've admitted yourself that you've had 75, 76 and 79, so why is it fair that you stay on 11, 10 or even 9 after those rounds? 75-9-66 is still a score that's going to win you the comp 99/100 times. It's a score you have shot so potentially you can shoot it again.

When 80% of the field shoots below 36 points, doesn't that indicate to you that playing to your handicap is not done by everyone and that having 36 points is actually a good days golf?

It's only your own fixation on this number of 36 that is causing you to "not have fun".

Actually, I think the percentage of players that play to their handicap or better (after DSR adjustment) each round is closer to 10%, which is about right statistically I would think. Our last 3 comps were 23 out 249, 13 out 123 and 26 out of 277. I have played to my handicap or better 4 times out of my last 20 rounds.

There you go. 90% of the field shoots below 36 points. Did they all "not have fun"? That's a LOT of miserable pricks on the course at one time.

Just to offer another point of view, I am possibly one golfer that doesn't think the new system necessarily makes your h'cap lower. It really depends on the consistency of golfer and how often you play.

I played off between 4-10 for about 20 years early in my career. I could shoot a low score maybe once every 6 months or so and that was all I needed to keep the cap low as it would take min. 10 games to get 1 shot back. i.e. I shot 2 under off the stick playing off 7 once... (equivalent to a 25 marker shooting 16 over, so not that special) but that smashed my handicap and then for the next year I barely played to my handicap getting 0.1 back each week.

Under the new system, that one good game is only going to last 20 rounds at best and so my cap will quickly blow out again and reflect my general week to week game. Since the new cap came in I have hovered around 11-14 handicap and I actually like that I can go to other courses and have a chance of playing to it.

Of course all just my personal experience but just offering up another side to the story... maybe it's that I'm just getting old and not the golfer I once was... but yep just showing it goes against the theory of lower handicaps under the new system.

Good counterpoint waz.

Assuming a slope of 113, then off 9, four rounds of 34 (11 over) and 4 rounds off 33 (12 over) is an 11.5 average.
Multiplied by .93 gives 10.7, so you won't stay on 9.

You only need to drop 2 points (or one lost ball) in one of those 8 hypothetical rounds and you'd be off 11.
This will probably happen anyway, as the daily handicap gets adjusted after each round. As it crosses the 10.0 threshold and some of the 33 points will be 13 over par, resulting in a handicap of 11 after those 8 games.

The slope is irrelevant as it cancels itself out, because what it takes in the history calculation it gives back in gives in the daily handicap calculation.
Ditto for the DSR.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a Winner!

Jumbuck, it's not "machoness", it's reality. I don't have 36 points every week, hell I don't have 32 points every week, but I don't go about whinging that I'm not having fun because of a "phoney" low handicap that I can't play to. It's because I wasn't good enough on the day. But when I do play my best I can beat that handicap well and truly. Should I be off 4 when I have the potential to shoot 69 when things click?

[jumbuck]

I give up. Have fun on OZgolf Jumbuck!

Lefty don't go - am just getting used to the site and love the banter. Plus my wife thinks I made a new second best friend "that's nice dear!"
One last post - I'm puzzled that with all the resources available to GA that one of the mathematicians couldn't work out a formula suitable to country comps.
What if they scrapped the 15% model for all fields under 80 players and went to the 25th or 30th% or averaged the top 10 so you would get a more realistic DSR/CCR.
Surely couldn't be hard. They mucked around with Duckworth Lewis for ages until they got sufficient data to make it as fair as possible
PS If you're every in Adelaide you're most welcome to join our Wednesday Saints and Sinners group as my guest. Your opinionated, slightly rude @ confrontational style
would be very much at home!
Regards Jumbuck

[mrbluu]

If this thread was on Facebook, I would be unfriending it right about....now!!

[3Puttpete]

If this thread was on Facebook, I would be unfriending it right about....now!!

I've used the ignore button for the first time after 2 years

[Dotty]

I'd love to see the handicapping system simplified to ...

1. The average of the 5 best scores of the last 20 games. (This equates to what a once-a-week player actually plays to once-a-month.)
2. No bonus-of-excellence required.
3. Keep the annual 4 or 5 shot anchor, to minimise handicap farming.
4. Keep the slope system to encourage players to travel to other courses.

Believe it or not, I missed the 3/4 handicap era. My understanding was that your club handicap was based on stroke rounds, which included the blow-outs. For stableford and matchplay, where blowouts don't have as much impact (but good play still gets rewarded), everyone played off 3/4 of their actual handicap.

[LeftyHoges]

Lefty don't go - am just getting used to the site and love the banter. Plus my wife thinks I made a new second best friend "that's nice dear!"
One last post - I'm puzzled that with all the resources available to GA that one of the mathematicians couldn't work out a formula suitable to country comps.
What if they scrapped the 15% model for all fields under 80 players and went to the 25th or 30th% or averaged the top 10 so you would get a more realistic DSR/CCR.
Surely couldn't be hard. They mucked around with Duckworth Lewis for ages until they got sufficient data to make it as fair as possible
PS If you're every in Adelaide you're most welcome to join our Wednesday Saints and Sinners group as my guest. Your opinionated, slightly rude @ confrontational style
would be very much at home!
Regards Jumbuck

Disappoint. Why can't I be your first best friend?

I actually don't have a confrontational style (I think pretty much all on the site would attest to that), this thread has just pissed me off no end.

My bro lives in Adelaide, so it could happen.

[Coldtopper]

Disappoint. Why can't I be your first best friend?

Hey dont cut my lunch Lefty!
I dont understand any of this thread and there is a good reason why.

Let me be the one. Hey JB its time you moved topics. Looking forward to seeing your other threads. Keep up the good work btw....

[jumbuck]

You say in a later post "Isn't golf supposed to be fun?"

You're stressing out way too much over something you don't do for a living, and ironically i bet it's not helping your scores. Leave the worries and ulcers for the pro's and be happy just to be out there and alive. There are plenty that don't even have the opportunity to play this wonderful game.

Anyway welcome the forum, your post has certainly kept the forum chirping. Don't take anything too harshly early on, i'm sure you will slide into the ozgolf way of life in coming weeks.

P.S. Are you a club thrower?

I can't say that I not!
Thanks for the welcome . I think I've upset Dottie - making an ordinary point that Australians aren't great complainers that's why we get so many drongos in parliament cos we are too slack to fill out a ballot paper properly ( the Senate fiasco being an example) which lead onto why we have this crap handicap system.

[jumbuck]

That was serious.

'Secondly Aussies are too slack, lazy and generally can't be bothered on mass to get off their collective "you know whats" to complain.'
Or the reason they don't complain, is that they do not have a justifiable reason to complain. (And thanks for the collective insult, five pound.)

Rave on.

Trying to find all your posts in one spot. Is that possible. Particularly the humorous sarcastic one about slack Aussies. Plus I want to challenge your maths.
Regards JB

[Dotty]

Trying to find all your posts in one spot. Is that possible. Particularly the humorous sarcastic one about slack Aussies. Plus I want to challenge your maths.
Regards JB

Challenge away.

I realise it is possible to play off 9, without actually playing to 9, if the 8 best rounds are 35 points (10 over), giving an average of 10 or 9.3 with the BoE.

But consistently scoring 35 points, without ever breaking through the 36 point barrier, then they should be looking at reasons closer to home, than at a national formula.

[coalesce]

jumbuck, you may find this thread interesting: http://www.ozgolf.net/showthread.php...eresting-stats

[jumbuck]

Challenge away.

I realise it is possible to play off 9, without actually playing to 9, if the 8 best rounds are 35 points (10 over), giving an average of 10 or 9.3 with the BoE.

But consistently scoring 35 points, without ever breaking through the 36 point barrier, then they should be looking at reasons closer to home, than at a national formula.

Trouble is I don't consistently score 35. I'm one of those erratic golfers score wise. Whereas longtime playing partner also off 9 is remarkably consistent.
He's more filthy with the system than me! (He actually cracked 7 - 3 months back and said to me "I'll show you how to embrace your handicap - stand back) - he had 8 over that day bemoaned some missed putts but was full of himself. Next week he bent his putter - had quite a time getting the 8 iron out off a tree and was ready to kill someone by the end of it. Now where both in a race to 10.
In one of your posts you said you were playing off 16 (under CCR) and had a day out when you shot a 5 over. You reckon you came in 5 strokes - from memory I reckon it would have been 11* .3 =3.3 (though can't remember exactly what handicaps used.4) -you took 18 months to go out.
Under the 8/20 system you would've been off 14 or 15 and when you added that 5 to your best 8 (using a home slope of 124) it would be 11 or 12 as well?
We could go on and on about this - all I want is my old handicap back as it is less stressful playing. I don't mind admitting my nerves are fragile (our teenager has PTSD - I've got a dose so has wife) - physically my best days are behind me - 60 soon -yippee! My potential up and left long ago.
I have too many rounds that start with 5 or 6 points then carve the tee shot at the 5th OB. Then I don't get a shot for the next 4 holes.
This is not enjoyable! I've played a decent level of sport all my life and loved it - now I glad I've hurt myself so I don't have to play tomorrow. There are plenty of our members that aren't happy with this system but just shrug their shoulders. For some of us this system sucks. If your happy with 32 points good for you.

[coalesce]

I really don't understand the fixation on a number. Surely that isn't the only reason you play the game?

[Steve57]

Trouble is I don't consistently score 35. I'm one of those erratic golfers score wise. Whereas longtime playing partner also off 9 is remarkably consistent.
He's more filthy with the system than me! (He actually cracked 7 - 3 months back and said to me "I'll show you how to embrace your handicap - stand back) - he had 8 over that day bemoaned some missed putts but was full of himself. Next week he bent his putter - had quite a time getting the 8 iron out off a tree and was ready to kill someone by the end of it. Now where both in a race to 10.
In one of your posts you said you were playing off 16 (under CCR) and had a day out when you shot a 5 over. You reckon you came in 5 strokes - from memory I reckon it would have been 11* .3 =3.3 (though can't remember exactly what handicaps used.4) -you took 18 months to go out.
Under the 8/20 system you would've been off 14 or 15 and when you added that 5 to your best 8 (using a home slope of 124) it would be 11 or 12 as well?
We could go on and on about this - all I want is my old handicap back as it is less stressful playing. I don't mind admitting my nerves are fragile (our teenager has PTSD - I've got a dose so has wife) - physically my best days are behind me - 60 soon -yippee! My potential up and left long ago.
I have too many rounds that start with 5 or 6 points then carve the tee shot at the 5th OB. Then I don't get a shot for the next 4 holes.
This is not enjoyable! I've played a decent level of sport all my life and loved it - now I glad I've hurt myself so I don't have to play tomorrow. There are plenty of our members that aren't happy with this system but just shrug their shoulders. For some of us this system sucks. If your happy with 32 points good for you.

The bottom line is you are not going to get your old handicap back .
I too am on the higher side of 55yo yet I have just this week hit a low point in my 'cap that matches my lowest ever which was last achieved 31 years ago.
Forget the handicap, suck it up and get out and enjoy the greatest game on this planet!

[Matt1979]

I will take 32pts every week & just enjoy being out on the course and not thinking about the 50 or 60 hours spent at work during the week

[3oneday]

I'm playing ambrose again this weekend, or cored greens.

Should I ring Clive?

[Dotty]

Jumbuck is right. It was only 4 shots for having 5 over off 16. (It's all coming back to me now, as I added the shot I lost the game before for having a 68 net, when I just got back to 17 for the first time in ages.) My apologies, as I too am over 50 and also look at the old days with selected memory.

My point is that each shot better than handicap got slugged .3 off the handicap under the old system, and the impact essentially stayed around forever.
Now, each shot better than handicap only takes .134 (one-eighth / BoE), and it's impact disappears in 20 games time.

My lowest handicap was in my 50th year. Partly due to the original USGA handicapping, but also due to a sidebet across two groups taking precedence of the club comp. ($5 each, and best 3 scores get a $13 bottle of wine.) I found that 33-35 points would beat five others for the third bottle of wine. Under the old system, my handicap was staying at 12-13, as I was finishing in the top 40%, but still getting .1 back.

Then under the new system, the 33-35 points would still put me in the top 40% of the field, but these would be flagged rounds and I was dropping .1-.3 off the handicap (as 10 cards counted to the average). As the handicap dropped to 9, it just took a little more concentration to get the 34 points, and stay ahead of the field.

In the meanwhile, if the others in your club are struggling to score well, then you should take them on for side bets, and restore some life into the game.

In no time at all, 20 games will have passed since your purple patch, the carousel will come back around and you can add your name alongside ours in this thread ... http://www.ozgolf.net/showthread.php...ghlight=anchor

[Captain Nemo]

Ive read all this BS, cant make heads or tails of it.
Im a chopper though so prob doesnt matter.....

[Dotty]

Ive read all this BS, cant make heads or tails of it.
Im a chopper though so prob doesnt matter.....

You're trophy hunter.

Every time I tee it up with you, you're taking home prizes.

ps.

[PeteyD]

It doesn't matter, as long as the handicaps system is the same for everyone.

[Steve57]

It doesn't matter, as long as the handicaps system is the same for everyone.

+10000000000!