Discuss Religion Here

[BUSHY]

Did you guys know they found a 1.8 million year old skull that suggests the traditional evolutionary hypothesis may be too complicated..

[Outcast]

I've always said the minority is the issue but as was the case in Lebanon, once the radical minority gets to a certain size they demand control. Not by political means but by violence. In the end the group that was the peaceful majority become the oppressed minority. Like I pointed out Lebanon, Yugoslavia, Bosnia. These are recent examples of what can happen when people are indifferent about what's happening in their society. I hope it never gets that far here, I'm sure we all do.

This is why I would advocate that we need to learn more about each others beliefs & values so that we can truly understand where the threat lies & fight it on a united front. I'm pretty confident in saying that mainstream moslems do not wish to have the radical version of Islam forced upon them either. The trouble is though that often through ignorance populations clump all followers of a religion together & label them as a threat.

You know this is not the case but, sadly many do not & are fuelled by biased media reporting which seeks to sell exciting headlines to the mindless majority.

Extremism grows when the youth of a movement are marginalised & become vulnerable to the rubbish that radical minorities espouse. That rubbish is further entrenched when the marginalised group sees their entire belief system demonised (which occurs routinely in western media WRT Islam).

I'll say again, extremism in any form should be fought by all; we should not become complacent about our way of life but, we should not in turn become hateful of things we do not fully understand.

[markTHEblake]

That's my point Mark, not all 'christian' actions are consistent with the teachings of Jesus Christ

I have always said that Christians are the worst advertisements for christianity

as not all actions of Moslems are consistent with the Qu'oran

Flying planes into buildings is consistent with the teachings of you know who.

Even the Pope of the Godless, agrees;
Source:http://seanrobsville.blogspot.com.au...orried-by.html

Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, said: “There are no Christians, as far as I know, blowing up buildings. I am not aware of any Christian suicide bombers. I am not aware of any major Christian denomination that believes the penalty for apostasy is death. I have mixed feelings about the decline of Christianity, in so far as Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse.”

Actually I believe there is a way that the concept of creation can sit neatly alongside evolution but

Thats called Theistic Evolution, one of the well known Christian proponents is Hugh Ross.
Dr Jonathan Sarfati has written a couple of good books refuting him point by point.

In short, the Gospels make no sense if Genesis is not true history. Even Richard Dawkins agrees with this ( i just cant recall the quote)

You know as well as I do that their are some christian groups out their who condemn & preach hatred of those not in the group & following Christ's teachings.

these groups are really very very very small, and have no influence.

You might want to re-examine that statement;

i have, many times, the answer is no.

there is in fact plenty of evidence to support this theory,

how about you give me the best one? and I'll answer it without using Google.

Science & our understanding of our world & universe is an ever evolving work, perhaps religion should evolve a little more as well.

If a religion is making a truth claim about our origins, who we are, who made us, why we were made and where we are going when we die, it makes no sense to evolve it, as that would be an admission that its not the truth, and thus pointless.

Ac​tual argument raised by an extreme right wing conservative christian senator or congressmen

thats still a genetic fallacy though.

An example would be preaching to terminally ill members of their flock that the reason they are ill is because their faith is not strong enough and that to show how strong their faith really is they need to tithe more to the church. I find this behaviour reprehensible & bordering on extortion

I have been to many Hillsong services this doesn't happen. There are lots of myths like this about Hillsong, its the tall poppy syndrome.

[markTHEblake]

Let's be clear about this, evolution is science. It is a scientific theory. There is an enormous body of evidence to support it

Like what? or are you just going to keep dogmatically asserting that it is.

Natural selection is the mechanism by which evolution occurs.

Dogs are still dogs.

Believing in natural selection but not evolution is daft.

I do not believe in natural selection. Natural selection is observable, it just is. Saying that some one believes in it, is just daft.

No evidence needed. That statement, and others where you agree we come from chimps, proves you dont't understand the basics about Evolution.

Your mere assertion proves nothing. Typical evolutionist, will do anything to avoid presenting evidence, Instead throws out quotes like "overwhelming" "abundance" and so on.

I cannot prove the above, because that is not even stated....anywhere, in the Theory of Evolution.

You are obfuscating to avoid answering

I think you are referring to Abiogenisis, but not sure.

Abiogenesis is claimed by the Evolutionist to have nothing to do with Evolution, so they dont have to respond to questions about it.

I also noted you like to use Ken Hams definition of Scientific method, instead of the one actually used.

I have never read anything from Ken Ham, you must be a big fan of his to know that. However all means, tell me what the Scientific method is, and then present your evidence that your grandaddy was a [insert ancient creature here]

I promise to not say monkey again, I know how much it upsets you lot.

[Ron Burgundy]

While Hillsong aren't really my preferred brand of god bothering, comparing their impact on society with radical Islam is a bit of a stretch. Aside from the Hillsong founder getting done for sexually abusing young boys, these days at worst they're just engaging in some low rent tax fraud. If followers want to give 10% of their salary so their leaders can live lavishly, good luck to them. Brian Houston seems to be betting that camels really can pass through the eye of a needle. Hope he's right.

[Outcast]

Mark,

I disagree that flying planes into buildings is consistent with the Qu'oran. I agree that it is consistent with the extreme interpretation that some groups have of the Qu'oran.

I never said that Genesis didn't represent truth, I said I don't necessarily agree with the interpretation which is espoused by many. I believe that Genesis & evolution can & should co-exist; I've read the arguments, I have my own belief in this matter. The generally espoused view on creation applies human timelines and image across Genesis, who restricted God to our laws of time & human form in his creation??

I believe there is a logical chain (with some gaps I acknowledge) supported by fossil remains of the evolution of all species; I'm not necessarily convinced that we've nailed our own origins completely but, there is a logical chain of evidence. Interestingly, there is also a logical chain of evidence regarding a significant number of biblical events (also with some gaps) but, many choose to conveniently ignore that and pretend the bible is just a bunch of made-up stories.

I didn't say religion was not making a truthful claim about our origins; I question our interpretation of what the bible is telling us and it is this that needs to evolve. Our thinking is somewhat narrow & in my opinion somewhat vain when it comes to interpreting many things in the bible.

I've been to a few Hillsong services where I did hear this; I've also been to some Anglican services that preach appalling things.. I don't go back to those particular places of worship, I search for a church that actually tries to teach Christ's message properly. Again, I think it comes down to interpretations of the message & some get it completely wrong. As you say Christians can be the worst advertisements for christianity.

I'm afraid I still maintain my position on the Hillsong & some other so called Christian groups.. I am also wary of sections of the Anglican church so, I spread my caution around...

[markTHEblake]

Did you guys know they found a 1.8 million year old skull that suggests the traditional evolutionary hypothesis may be too complicated..

Not to mention the discovery of unfossilsed T-Rex bones with soft tissue and blood cells in it. Supposed to be 100 million years old or whatever, soft tissue cant survive that long, so thats another thing stuffing up the assumed time lines.

[Outcast]

Not to mention the discovery of unfossilsed T-Rex bones with soft tissue and blood cells in it. Supposed to be 100 million years old or whatever, soft tissue cant survive that long, so thats another thing stuffing up the assumed time lines.

Not necessarily Mark, scientists will now have to re-evaluate the fossilisation process & what we currently accept as fact. They will do this by examining accepted knowledge, questioning it against the most recent evidentiary find & re-evaluate as they do with every scientific assertion.

Perhaps you are right, perhaps they will discover that their most recent find does call into question what we think we know about evolution or perhaps it doesn't. A bit early to make that call I suspect, might require a little more rigorous investigation.

[Ron Burgundy]

Like what? or are you just going to keep dogmatically asserting that it is.

Fossils, genetics and dating.

Dogs are still dogs.

And the dogs present today are here precisely because they were selected. They have their ancestors, as do all living organisms. The fact that they are here and their ancestors aren't is evidence of natural selection driving their evolution.

I do not believe in natural selection. Natural selection is observable, it just is. Saying that some one believes in it, is just daft.

Interesting that you feel you can observe something but not believe it (natural selection) but seemingly believe something but never see it (God).

I promise to not say monkey again, I know how much it upsets you lot.

Monkeys don't upset me. I love monkeys. We're more closely related to apes than monkeys, but that's not really the point.

Also, in none of your replies have you provided any proof that evolution is false.

[markTHEblake]

Fossils, genetics and dating.

None of those are evidence of pond scum to people evolution.
A fossil is just a fossil it doesnt say anything by itself
Genetics & dating - well thats not actually saying anything

And the dogs present today are here precisely because they were selected. They have their ancestors,

yeah. Dog ancestors are dogs. "science" reveals that to us.

The fact that they are here and their ancestors aren't is evidence of natural selection driving their evolution.

that doesnt prove dinosaurs become dogs

Interesting that you feel you can observe something but not believe it (natural selection)

I never said I don't believe "it" - read again what you wrote and my reply.
Natural selection is observable, it is proven, it is science, I do not beleive IN it, it just is (why am I repeating myself?)

Also, in none of your replies have you provided any proof that evolution is false.

I don't believe I made such an argument, please quote me. I am pretty sure I said that GTE, in other words the evolution of monkeys to man is a philosophy and should not be dogmatically taught as science.

[Ron Burgundy]

None of those are evidence of pond scum to people evolution.
A fossil is just a fossil it doesnt say anything by itself
Genetics & dating - well thats not actually saying anything

Evolution is a theory, not an absolute fact and is taught as such. However it is the only theory to account for the history of life on the planet supported by plausible evidence and there is nothing currently to supplant it. Finding absolute proof tracing every step of a several billion year process is incredibly complicated and isn't possible (yet). Fossils tell us about numerous small changes over time. The various forms of dating (carbon etc) show the timeline of these changes. Genetic testing of different species points to common ancestry.

. Dog ancestors are dogs. "science" reveals that to us.

Actually dog ancestors are wolves and before that a long line of other carnivorous mammals stretching back millions of years.

doesnt prove dinosaurs become dogs

It doesn't try to. Dinosaurs were not mammals.

never said I don't believe "it" - read again what you wrote and my reply.
Natural selection is observable, it is proven, it is science, I do not beleive IN it, it just is (why am I repeating myself?)

I'll give you that. You believe natural selection, just not 'in' natural selection. Semantics aside, believing natural selection but not evolution isn't an argument I've encountered before. Logically it means that all life currently present on the planet has always existed in its present form and must have always been here. Given the number of species which have become extinct over the last few billion years, the planet must have been pretty crowded in the early days.

I don't believe I made such an argument, please quote me. I am pretty sure I said that GTE, in other words the evolution of monkeys to man is a philosophy and should not be dogmatically taught as science.

Evolution doesn't claim monkeys evolved into humans, they just share a common ancestry. It's encouraging that you're not claiming evolution is false. The lack of evidence to contradict evolutionary theory is one of its greatest strengths. Again, it's a theory, not a fact. That doesn't make it unscientific though. Should physics also be taught in philosophy as that field contains a number of theories?

Anyway, as entertaining as this has been, my head is now sore from banging on this particular brick wall, so I'm done.

[Peter]

And yet another wave of victims get sucked into the Blake black hole of despair.

An observable (and therefore scientific) phenomenon, my favourite part is where he accuses someone else of obfuscating to avoid answering.

[AndyP]

Blakey claims wins in arguments by being the last one that could be bothered to continue discussing it.

[mike]

Is obfuscating a word?

[Dotty]

Is obfuscating a word?

It is currently, but a minority group will soon have it removed.

[Lagerlover]

Blakey claims wins in arguments by being the last one that could be bothered to continue discussing it.

Gold

[Bruce Dickinson]

the logistics on the ark look a bit flakey

[Courty]

[Johnny Canuck]

http://youtu.be/Ik9ofiRTTQM

[3oneday]

Very nice county.

[Lagerlover]

the logistics on the ark look a bit flakey

Not to mention the itty bitty life jackets

[Buzz]

If there were two, and only two, of every species on Noah's ark ...

...what did the carnivores eat?

Just askin'

[Hatchman]

If there were two, and only two, of every species on Noah's ark ...

...what did the carnivores eat?

Just askin'

Extended Ramadan , oops wrong story.

[Dotty]

If there were two, and only two, of every species on Noah's ark ...

...what did the carnivores eat?

Just askin'

It's obvious ... dinosaurs.

[magman]

Not to mention the discovery of unfossilsed T-Rex bones with soft tissue and blood cells in it. Supposed to be 100 million years old or whatever, soft tissue cant survive that long, so thats another thing stuffing up the assumed time lines.

there is a carving of a stegasauros in Cambodia, the temple is in Angor Wat, and is 800 years old, who ever carved that temple, saw a stegasauros 800 years ago,

And the dogs present today are here precisely because they were selected. They have their ancestors, as do all living organisms.

Dogs originate from wolves from the egyptians, it was the egyptians that kept wolve cubs, most of the dog breeds we have today were bred since the industrial revolution in europe

If there were two, and only two, of every species on Noah's ark ...

...what did the carnivores eat?

Just askin'

there was actually 7 of each, only the unclean animals went in two by two, remember they went in by their kinds, eg 7 wolves went in, and today we hundreds of breeds of dogs, which are the same kind as a wolve
Before the flood though, there was no eating of meat, only plant life, this was a command from God, only after the flood does God say animals can be used for meat and the fear of man will be in the animals