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5th March 2015 11:11 AM
#301
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
Hux
I am confused.
For this to occur you are suggesting that mathematically the other 4 counted rounds are going to be in the order of played to 32 for someone on a playing handicap of 22. I would like to see how many golfers would have 4 counting rounds of 45 (ie 13 under handicap) and their next best is 10 over handicap.
As a B grader I have 2 rounds under handicap and my worst of the remaining 6 is 2 rounds within 2 strokes of actual index. I would expect more variance in C grade but not the level you indicate.
I think that's pretty much his argument.
Golfers off 22 have the ability to have 45 or 25 points on any given day based entirely on what they decide to have before they tee off.
Because of this his GA hcp is 1 or 2 higher than he thinks it should be.
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5th March 2015 11:14 AM
#302
Admin Team
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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5th March 2015 11:21 AM
#303
Senior Member
Touring Pro (PGA)
Originally Posted by
PeteyD
There will always be turkeys that try and manipualte the system, there was with the old .1 system as well. The old system was a stupidity in that you were heavily penalised for playing well. Averaging is a far fairer system. Stop worrying about dickheads and play golf.
Where's that like button??
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5th March 2015 11:23 AM
#304
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Originally Posted by
PeteyD
Rodent your maths is shocking. You can not have 45 points every 4th round and not have it change your handicap.
My maths shocking? I haven't heard that one before.
If you have 45 points every 4th round, you will never have more than five 45 point rounds in your last 20. That leaves 3 other counting rounds. Lets say you're off 15 and your 45 point rounds are played to 6. You have 5 rounds of played to 6 and your other 3 flags are played to 36..........guess what? You will go out to 16!!!
So, my maths isn't shocking, yours is. Every 4th round you score 45, it will replace a 45 that drops off, so you can maintain your farmed handicap. Simples!
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5th March 2015 11:26 AM
#305
Senior Member
Major Winner
I have always thought the handicap system should be based on the best 5 cards from the last 20.
I'm older and grumpier now, so make it average of the best 4 from last 20 (and keep the 5 shot anchor rule).
You don't get me. I'm part of the Union.
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5th March 2015 11:54 AM
#306
Admin Team
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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5th March 2015 12:02 PM
#307
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
So my maths is ok though? I'm just highlighting how stupid the system is.
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5th March 2015 12:08 PM
#308
Admin Team
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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5th March 2015 12:49 PM
#309
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
I'm with you in that I don't play for prizes. I play to improve. I'd just prefer that burglars had no say in how I played on the day.
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5th March 2015 02:26 PM
#310
Admin Team
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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5th March 2015 02:53 PM
#311
Moderator
Touring Pro (European Tour)
DSR was supposed to give a way to adjust the "difficulty" of the course based on conditions on the day.
There are 2 ways of doing this:
1) Someone makes an arbitrary judgement of how difficult it was
2) Try and work it out based on the scores
And they've gone with 2.
I really want to meet one of these handicap farmers who deliberately plays shit for 3 games out of every 4. That sounds like a lot of effort to win $20 pro shop credit
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5th March 2015 03:09 PM
#312
Senior Member
Major Winner
They don't do it for the pro shop credit, they do it so Rodent's handicap is higher than he thinks it should be.
They have meetings and everything.
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5th March 2015 04:10 PM
#313
Admin Team
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
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5th March 2015 04:48 PM
#314
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Originally Posted by
3puttpete
They don't do it for the pro shop credit, they do it so Rodent's handicap is higher than he thinks it should be.
They have meetings and everything.
Sorry if I've offended you in some way. I can't really think of any other reason why you'd be so obtuse.
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5th March 2015 04:53 PM
#315
Member
Club member who plays rain, hail, shine
i honestly don't care if burglars win comps, but for god sake just don't stuff up the DSR and stuff others over.
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5th March 2015 05:34 PM
#316
Senior Member
Major Winner
Originally Posted by
Rodent
Sorry if I've offended you in some way. I can't really think of any other reason why you'd be so obtuse.
I'm genuinely bemused that you seem to think high handicappers choose to have 45 or 25 points whenever they like which in turn means your handicap is higher than you think it should be.
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5th March 2015 05:59 PM
#317
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Originally Posted by
3puttpete
I'm genuinely bemused that you seem to think high handicappers choose to have 45 or 25 points whenever they like which in turn means your handicap is higher than you think it should be.
Nice straw man argument.
The examples I used were to illustrate the shortcomings of the system. It is what is possible, not what I said actually happens. The point is this......it is now possible for people who farm their handicaps (whether that be to have 1 or 2 shots up their sleeve or 10 shots or anywhere in between) to play better more often than they used to and preserve their bloated handicap.
These people are real. I have played golf with many people who are very annoyed when their handicap goes down by 1. I know many people who cram in a round on the Friday so their handicap blows out for Saturday's medal. I know a bloke who openly admits to pulling up at an "easy" track because he doesn't want to lose strokes for when he plays the "harder" tracks he frequents.
Now that the system allows sandbaggers to play better more frequently and you are unfortunate enough to have too many in your comp, they will impact the DSR. I have whinged about it in the past when it impacted me but I have moved on in the sense that I now play courses where I believe the DSR is a truer reflection of the difficulty on the day. My hcp of 6.3 is a good reflection of my ability at the moment. I'd like to get below my pb of 4.1 and that's the goal for this year. As long as i avoid the courses that the burglars frequent, I reckon I'm a good show.
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5th March 2015 10:25 PM
#318
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
Rodent
As long as i avoid the courses that the burglars frequent, I reckon I'm a good show.
How do you figure out which are the courses that a 1/3 of the field or more are burglars shooting inflated scores?
--
Criticism doesn't bother me, as it means I am doing something and people are watching.
Handy-Cap
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16th March 2015 11:11 AM
#319
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Japanese Tour)
Ive been on this thread banging on about the DSR and the Course Rating (method for calculating both is flawed). In our case arguing that the course rating is silly low and same with the DSR. It seems its a viscious circle...the DSR is always stupid low so HCPs go out so the scores go up and the DSR gets lower.... Interestingly our course is closed for 5 weeks and we have 9 comp rounds at away clubs. We have had 6 so far (Waterford, Malvern Valley, Eagle Ridge, Sandringham (x 2) and Marysville) The differential between the Course Rating and the DSR for the 6 so far is -11. Supports the argument (but doesnt prove it). Will report back after 9 rounds are complete. Im guessing our HCP pennant team will have a win this year.
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16th March 2015 11:17 AM
#320
Senior Member
Major Winner
Have been having this discussion with a few guys in a Telegram group, and something that has popped up has me curious.
Of my 20 current GL rounds, I have 11 on my home track. 9 of these are the exact same DSR. One is 2 shots lower and the other is one higher. Conditions at my course change in 30 minutes, let alone week-to-week. We have fields of anywhere between 60-100. Is it the "smaller" field that's keeping the DSR exactly the same every week (despite it pissing down rain and blowing its tits off one week compared to brilliant sunshine and no breeze the next), or is there something else at play here? Our course may as well set the DSR like the ACR was before DSR was introduced.
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16th March 2015 09:56 PM
#321
Senior Member
Golf Hall of Fame Inductee
Originally Posted by
Scifisicko
Ive been on this thread banging on about the DSR and the Course Rating (method for calculating both is flawed). In our case arguing that the course rating is silly low and same with the DSR.
Easy course, so your scores should be higher. If your ACR is 2 or 3 under par, you got to expect that 3-4 shots under par is not going to win jack.
It seems its a viscious circle...the DSR is always stupid low so HCPs go out so the scores go up and the DSR gets lower....
Can you show us a graph or something showing the DSR is getting lower?
--
Criticism doesn't bother me, as it means I am doing something and people are watching.
Handy-Cap
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15th July 2015 08:31 AM
#322
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
I've fine tuned my game at Hurstville now, playing 39 comps since June last year (+ 36 holes of foursomes). My best played to of those rounds is 5.8. My current hcp is 5.4
In the same time frame, I played to 3.8 in the only comp I've ever played at Cromer, played to 0.9 and 3.8 at Lynwood, to 3 at Massey Park and 3.2 at Barnwell Park, played to 4.2 at Eastlake in my first game there in years and played to 4.3 at The Coast.
My best mate who just came over from Lynwood with a hcp of 2.1 has played to 5.9, 8.9 and 7.8 so far. With RAE closing down, we got a 4 marker from there (4.3). His rounds at Hurstville are played to 8.9, 7.9, 7.9, 11.7, 8.9, 7.8 and 9.9
So in 10 rounds of golf, these blokes who are very consistent players, have not got a played to within 3 shots of their cap. These two guys were the lowest markers at the club when they arrived. I am 3rd lowest.
I still reckon the scratch rating is too low. This is an observation, not a complaint. I'm at peace with the situation
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15th July 2015 10:50 AM
#323
Senior Member
Touring Pro (Nationwide Tour)
Yep pretty much sums up my experiences when I was a member there. I remember shooting +2 off the stick playing off 9 I think and it was, and it became a played to +7 and I ran 6th!!
How often you playing there and when? I live just around the corner, drive past it every day, but haven't played there for over a year for some reason. Must get out there for a game again. Would like to join you one day perhaps?
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15th July 2015 11:03 AM
#324
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Originally Posted by
wazandnic
Yep pretty much sums up my experiences when I was a member there. I remember shooting +2 off the stick playing off 9 I think and it was, and it became a played to +7 and I ran 6th!!
How often you playing there and when? I live just around the corner, drive past it every day, but haven't played there for over a year for some reason. Must get out there for a game again. Would like to join you one day perhaps?
Sure thing. I play 1-2x per fortnight usually on a weekday.
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10th January 2020 08:51 PM
#325
Member
Touring Pro (Aust PGA)
Originally Posted by
Rodent
Hurstville's rating is a joke.
It took a while but I guess the stats don't lie. Hurstville has been re-rated. Blue tees scratch rating up 1 to 69 and slope up from 116 to 123. White tees scratch rating up 1 to 68 and slope up from 114 to 117.
Last edited by Rodent; 10th January 2020 at 08:53 PM.
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