Heavy and Hefty

[Daves]

No, this isn't another Fat Bastards thread!, this one is about club weight and heft/feel (swingweight).

Contrary to the popularity of lighter clubs, I have gone the other way and I am finding it is agreeing with my swing a lot. Historically I was playing my irons 1/2 to 3/4" over standard (193cm), but I have snuck this out to 1 and 1/4" over recently. The shafts I have been using were around the 95 to 105 grams level, but recent purchases have come with R300s, and the additional 15/20 grams seems to be agreeing with me also. Net result is I am playing with irons that are around 20 grams or so heavier, with SWs of between D6 and D8, and I haven't hit the ball better. I seem to be finding somewhere near the centre of the club face a lot more often, and my ball striking has improved accordingly. This is even though I have moved to more player type irons, with much lower forgiveness.

The trigger for the experiment was a set of lightweight clubs, X Hot irons with the 65gram graphite shafts. I picked up a set of these earlier in the year and simply could not hit them. I seemed to have no idea where the club face was. I knew it wasn't the clubs per se, but after a discussion with a club maker friend decided to go the other way, hence the Heavy and Hefty.

Next step is to try a set of R400s, and then perhaps some back weighting. I would also love to have an MOI Analyser!, perhaps a Christmas present for myself!

[mrbluu]

Nice work Dave, I like that u are inventing new reasons to buy stuff !!!

I've gone slightly heavier in my recent set of Rocketbladz Tours which SW at D4 from my AP2's which were between D0-D1. Not sure if its the SW that has helped or the shafts or the whole combo but I'm really liking them!!!

Liptout should be here soon, he loves SW's!!!!

[Coldtopper]

[Coldtopper]

I dont mind a little heft! Is it an age thing the older you get the heavier you like it? Ive got similar although using x100 ssx2 1 over to add more weight playing d5 in my irons.

[Forecaddie]

I concour Daves- Somewhere I posted the same thoughts- possibly on the Tourspec forum. Anyway, you see the preaching about lighter clubs for "increased distance and ball speed", but beleive you get your body into the swing, and not your arms when the clubs are heavier. Now, we see marketing for steel fibers and nunchuck for graphite, with touring players "branding" them. However, as touring players, they already know how to use their body for power. I also want to try back weighted grips or heavier grips. I play mid-sized now for the weight.

[talbo]

My AP2 set with Recoil Protos have SWs ranging from D2.5 for the 4 iron through to D5.5 in the PW. They feel great and I beleive I'm hitting the short irons much better than before (when I get weight to the target side!).

[oldracer]

My new MB001's will be shafted with recoil 110's and sw d5, same as my existing 501's with Nippon 1050 X, I'm 58 and love my sticks and their current results, I give it a crack but don't swing my nuts off but love the weight transfer with a heavier SW

[Daves]

Another half dozen or so rounds under my belt with different iron/shaft combos in rotation and I would say at this stage that heft is a more important factor than absolute weight. The combination of length and heft in itself adds to the absolute weight, so each club/shaft combo is relatively heavy compared to standard clubs. But the combo seems to be working with shafts weights ranging from 95g (i95s) to 125g (R300s), so absolute weight variances of up to 30 grams still work. In fact my best scoring round of the year was played with the i95s (714 CBs) . I still wasn't quite fully happy with the feel of this combo, but I can't argue with the result!

Some sets of R400s on the way to test the weight variables a bit further.

I should also mention that one set has a set of R300 HLs in them (Nike VR Combo) and I am loving the ball flight. All the advantages of a high ball flight without any of the more common consequences e.g; ballooning, lost distance etc. In fact these clubs seem to be about half a club longer (and no it isn't the lofts), and pretty good into the wind. Hard to find these shafts though, not sure if TT are still making them?

[Hatchman]

Keep the testing a results coming Daves. I'm finding your observations and results very interesting

With my own game speeding South this year it had me thinking more about times where I was striking the ball better. I kept coming back to times and clubs where the iron heads felt heavier and I had the feeling I could feel the head more.
Recently I've put a ADDI 7s in the Jetspeed in place of a 6s. Dispersion results have been better and this had lead to more frustration with my game due to missing greens from many hit fairways .
Currently wanting to step it up and go heavier again so on the lookout for a ADDI 8s or BB 7s or 8s, Matrix 8Q3 when the funds improve. Also considering a Aldila VS Proto 80 as a cheaper alternative.

[razaar]

Dave
Wouldn't 95 gm steel shafts be considered a light shaft?

[Daves]

Dave
Wouldn't 95 gm steel shafts be considered a light shaft?

Hi Ray, the i95s are actually Steelfibre graphite/steels, but yes at the lighter end of the scale. The original post was about club sets mostly installed with R300s, extended to 1 & 1/4" over standard length, swing at D6 to D8. I have since tried a set of Titleist 714 CBs with the Steelfibres in them, extended to 1 & 1/4" over and D6 to D8 SW. Whilst the "feel" wasn't quite there, the results were pretty good. So I am speculating that Heft is more important than absolute club weight in the equation. I would love to have an MOI Analyser to compare the set ups. I will do a weight and SW comparison chart up and post it when I get a chance.

[razaar]

Got ya Dave.

[Scifisicko]

I remember how well tiger used to hit the 975D with x100....maybe the extra weight had something to do with it.
Brad Hughes is an evangelist for heavy clubs.

[3oneday]

Never thought I'd see the word evangelist used on this golf forum

[aym]

Would it be same to add weight to the head rather than the shaft?

[BUSHY]

I remember how well tiger used to hit the 975D with x100....maybe the extra weight had something to do with it.
Brad Hughes is an evangelist for heavy clubs.

And at last year's World Challenge he went back to the 93 Blueboard in the driver and 103 in the fairways woods, same as he's rocking this week. I'd like to see what swing weight he uses in his irons.

I completely agree with the idea of heft. One of the biggest things that I got out of my professional fitting was heavier swing weights. Transformed my iron play I think, probably why I hated the Nippons that originally came in the Covert Forged.

[mrbluu]

Never thought I'd see the word evangelist used on this golf forum

What does it mean???

[3oneday]

No idea, I'm a heathen mostly. Ask Blakey.

[Daves]

Would it be same to add weight to the head rather than the shaft?

Adding weight to the head has more impact than adding weight to the shaft;

http://advancedballstriking.com/Swing_weights.pdf

Some shafts also have a level of counterweighting in their design.

[razaar]

There is a reason why club makers recommend D1-3 sw. Since the mid 1980's clubheads were made lighter to receive lighter (graphite initially) and longer shafts. It was found that the majority of players got more consistent results with clubs in the low D swingweight. Swingweight being a term to describe the balance of the overall club. The higher the SW the more the balance point shifts towards the club head; and towards the handle for a lower SW. The right SW for a player allows him to feel where the club head is throughout the swing and still feel the weight of the club. In a correct action the shaft is quite vertical during the upswing making the club feel light. Players who have the shaft more vertical than horizontal at the top probably would benefit from a heavier shaft to compress the wrists during the downswing. The club should stay at the top until it is moved down by the left hip pulling on the arms. If the club is too light it makes this task more difficult for most of us.

[Johnny Canuck]

Who is Hoges?

[Daves]

Who is Hoges?

Which post JC? I couldn't find the reference?

Adams MB2 with DG SL300s 3-pw, and Adams A12 Pro Forged KBS tours 3 - 9i have now been lengthened and gripped to my specs and are into the rotation. MB2 hopefully get their first trial tomorrow. I have reads some good things about the "feel" of these irons.

[BUSHY]

I've been looking for this video but it's right at the end what I am pointing out.

http://youtu.be/URXeFEpxCZ8

Steve Elkington has a three wood that swing weights at E0.5. It's part of a series of 7 or 8 videos getting stuff built which I found interesting. I know he likes "hammer head" feel and I'd seen it before, just had to find it.

[Forecaddie]

Great video- Thanks for posting. I've been going in that direction for the last 3 months. Now just want to look at counter weighted grips.

[Forecaddie]

I just swapped out a hybrid graphite stiff shaft for a steel 2 iron stiff shaft. Total weight was 376g C7 swing weight. Now, 400g D8 swing weight. Will see how it goes this weekend. Wished I had 10K to spend on my personal Trackman or GC2. Oh well, the true test is to see the ball flight.