Home course rating easy rant

[3Puttpete]

I am confused.
For this to occur you are suggesting that mathematically the other 4 counted rounds are going to be in the order of played to 32 for someone on a playing handicap of 22. I would like to see how many golfers would have 4 counting rounds of 45 (ie 13 under handicap) and their next best is 10 over handicap.

As a B grader I have 2 rounds under handicap and my worst of the remaining 6 is 2 rounds within 2 strokes of actual index. I would expect more variance in C grade but not the level you indicate.

I think that's pretty much his argument.

Golfers off 22 have the ability to have 45 or 25 points on any given day based entirely on what they decide to have before they tee off.

Because of this his GA hcp is 1 or 2 higher than he thinks it should be.

[PeteyD]

There will always be turkeys that try and manipualte the system, there was with the old .1 system as well. The old system was a stupidity in that you were heavily penalised for playing well. Averaging is a far fairer system. Stop worrying about dickheads and play golf.

[Steve57]

There will always be turkeys that try and manipualte the system, there was with the old .1 system as well. The old system was a stupidity in that you were heavily penalised for playing well. Averaging is a far fairer system. Stop worrying about dickheads and play golf.

Where's that like button??

[Rodent]

Rodent your maths is shocking. You can not have 45 points every 4th round and not have it change your handicap.

My maths shocking? I haven't heard that one before.
If you have 45 points every 4th round, you will never have more than five 45 point rounds in your last 20. That leaves 3 other counting rounds. Lets say you're off 15 and your 45 point rounds are played to 6. You have 5 rounds of played to 6 and your other 3 flags are played to 36..........guess what? You will go out to 16!!!
So, my maths isn't shocking, yours is. Every 4th round you score 45, it will replace a 45 that drops off, so you can maintain your farmed handicap. Simples!

[Dotty]

I have always thought the handicap system should be based on the best 5 cards from the last 20.

I'm older and grumpier now, so make it average of the best 4 from last 20 (and keep the 5 shot anchor rule).

[PeteyD]

My maths shocking? I haven't heard that one before.
If you have 45 points every 4th round, you will never have more than five 45 point rounds in your last 20. That leaves 3 other counting rounds. Lets say you're off 15 and your 45 point rounds are played to 6. You have 5 rounds of played to 6 and your other 3 flags are played to 36..........guess what? You will go out to 16!!!
So, my maths isn't shocking, yours is. Every 4th round you score 45, it will replace a 45 that drops off, so you can maintain your farmed handicap. Simples!

The other 3 rounds wont be played to 36, that is ridiculous, you are assuming that in 20 rounds there are 5 played to 45 and 15 played to 36 or worse. The club handicapper could fix that really easy.

And apologies for the maths comment. Obviously my mind is not devious enough to comprehend the lengths these evil manipulators go to.

[Rodent]

So my maths is ok though? I'm just highlighting how stupid the system is.

[PeteyD]

So my maths is ok though? I'm just highlighting how stupid the system is.

Yes your maths is fine, although the reasoning to create the situation is excessive. You are taking an extreme that would be corrected by a diligent handicapper anyway. Again, any system is open to abuse. I guess it comes down to what you think the handicap is for. For me it is for tracking my steadily worsening attempts to play this game at some level. I really do not care about prizes in the weekly comp at the club.

[Rodent]

I'm with you in that I don't play for prizes. I play to improve. I'd just prefer that burglars had no say in how I played on the day.

[PeteyD]

Yea the DSR thing is crap. Should be how you play against the cours, the slope etc was to allow for harder / easier courses.

[coalesce]

DSR was supposed to give a way to adjust the "difficulty" of the course based on conditions on the day.

There are 2 ways of doing this:

1) Someone makes an arbitrary judgement of how difficult it was
2) Try and work it out based on the scores

And they've gone with 2.

I really want to meet one of these handicap farmers who deliberately plays shit for 3 games out of every 4. That sounds like a lot of effort to win $20 pro shop credit

[3Puttpete]

They don't do it for the pro shop credit, they do it so Rodent's handicap is higher than he thinks it should be.

They have meetings and everything.

[PeteyD]

DSR was supposed to give a way to adjust the "difficulty" of the course based on conditions on the day.

There are 2 ways of doing this:

1) Someone makes an arbitrary judgement of how difficult it was
2) Try and work it out based on the scores

And they've gone with 2.

I really want to meet one of these handicap farmers who deliberately plays shit for 3 games out of every 4. That sounds like a lot of effort to win $20 pro shop credit

I know the theory behind it, but if you play most of the year it all sorts itself out anyway. My scores bear no correlation with the DSR. In fact they might be inversely proportional ...

[Rodent]

They don't do it for the pro shop credit, they do it so Rodent's handicap is higher than he thinks it should be.

They have meetings and everything.

Sorry if I've offended you in some way. I can't really think of any other reason why you'd be so obtuse.

[gumby]

i honestly don't care if burglars win comps, but for god sake just don't stuff up the DSR and stuff others over.

[3Puttpete]

Sorry if I've offended you in some way. I can't really think of any other reason why you'd be so obtuse.

I'm genuinely bemused that you seem to think high handicappers choose to have 45 or 25 points whenever they like which in turn means your handicap is higher than you think it should be.

[Rodent]

I'm genuinely bemused that you seem to think high handicappers choose to have 45 or 25 points whenever they like which in turn means your handicap is higher than you think it should be.

Nice straw man argument.
The examples I used were to illustrate the shortcomings of the system. It is what is possible, not what I said actually happens. The point is this......it is now possible for people who farm their handicaps (whether that be to have 1 or 2 shots up their sleeve or 10 shots or anywhere in between) to play better more often than they used to and preserve their bloated handicap.
These people are real. I have played golf with many people who are very annoyed when their handicap goes down by 1. I know many people who cram in a round on the Friday so their handicap blows out for Saturday's medal. I know a bloke who openly admits to pulling up at an "easy" track because he doesn't want to lose strokes for when he plays the "harder" tracks he frequents.
Now that the system allows sandbaggers to play better more frequently and you are unfortunate enough to have too many in your comp, they will impact the DSR. I have whinged about it in the past when it impacted me but I have moved on in the sense that I now play courses where I believe the DSR is a truer reflection of the difficulty on the day. My hcp of 6.3 is a good reflection of my ability at the moment. I'd like to get below my pb of 4.1 and that's the goal for this year. As long as i avoid the courses that the burglars frequent, I reckon I'm a good show.

[markTHEblake]

As long as i avoid the courses that the burglars frequent, I reckon I'm a good show.

How do you figure out which are the courses that a 1/3 of the field or more are burglars shooting inflated scores?

[Scifisicko]

Ive been on this thread banging on about the DSR and the Course Rating (method for calculating both is flawed). In our case arguing that the course rating is silly low and same with the DSR. It seems its a viscious circle...the DSR is always stupid low so HCPs go out so the scores go up and the DSR gets lower.... Interestingly our course is closed for 5 weeks and we have 9 comp rounds at away clubs. We have had 6 so far (Waterford, Malvern Valley, Eagle Ridge, Sandringham (x 2) and Marysville) The differential between the Course Rating and the DSR for the 6 so far is -11. Supports the argument (but doesnt prove it). Will report back after 9 rounds are complete. Im guessing our HCP pennant team will have a win this year.

[LeftyHoges]

Have been having this discussion with a few guys in a Telegram group, and something that has popped up has me curious.

Of my 20 current GL rounds, I have 11 on my home track. 9 of these are the exact same DSR. One is 2 shots lower and the other is one higher. Conditions at my course change in 30 minutes, let alone week-to-week. We have fields of anywhere between 60-100. Is it the "smaller" field that's keeping the DSR exactly the same every week (despite it pissing down rain and blowing its tits off one week compared to brilliant sunshine and no breeze the next), or is there something else at play here? Our course may as well set the DSR like the ACR was before DSR was introduced.

[markTHEblake]

Ive been on this thread banging on about the DSR and the Course Rating (method for calculating both is flawed). In our case arguing that the course rating is silly low and same with the DSR.

Easy course, so your scores should be higher. If your ACR is 2 or 3 under par, you got to expect that 3-4 shots under par is not going to win jack.

It seems its a viscious circle...the DSR is always stupid low so HCPs go out so the scores go up and the DSR gets lower....

Can you show us a graph or something showing the DSR is getting lower?

[Rodent]

I've fine tuned my game at Hurstville now, playing 39 comps since June last year (+ 36 holes of foursomes). My best played to of those rounds is 5.8. My current hcp is 5.4
In the same time frame, I played to 3.8 in the only comp I've ever played at Cromer, played to 0.9 and 3.8 at Lynwood, to 3 at Massey Park and 3.2 at Barnwell Park, played to 4.2 at Eastlake in my first game there in years and played to 4.3 at The Coast.
My best mate who just came over from Lynwood with a hcp of 2.1 has played to 5.9, 8.9 and 7.8 so far. With RAE closing down, we got a 4 marker from there (4.3). His rounds at Hurstville are played to 8.9, 7.9, 7.9, 11.7, 8.9, 7.8 and 9.9
So in 10 rounds of golf, these blokes who are very consistent players, have not got a played to within 3 shots of their cap. These two guys were the lowest markers at the club when they arrived. I am 3rd lowest.
I still reckon the scratch rating is too low. This is an observation, not a complaint. I'm at peace with the situation

[wazandnic]

Yep pretty much sums up my experiences when I was a member there. I remember shooting +2 off the stick playing off 9 I think and it was, and it became a played to +7 and I ran 6th!!

How often you playing there and when? I live just around the corner, drive past it every day, but haven't played there for over a year for some reason. Must get out there for a game again. Would like to join you one day perhaps?

[Rodent]

Yep pretty much sums up my experiences when I was a member there. I remember shooting +2 off the stick playing off 9 I think and it was, and it became a played to +7 and I ran 6th!!

How often you playing there and when? I live just around the corner, drive past it every day, but haven't played there for over a year for some reason. Must get out there for a game again. Would like to join you one day perhaps?

Sure thing. I play 1-2x per fortnight usually on a weekday.

[Rodent]

Hurstville's rating is a joke.

It took a while but I guess the stats don't lie. Hurstville has been re-rated. Blue tees scratch rating up 1 to 69 and slope up from 116 to 123. White tees scratch rating up 1 to 68 and slope up from 114 to 117.