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  1. #1
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    Default Pro Shop - Commercial Sales

    Following on from Benno's comments in another thread, I wanted to see how people feel about the current situation with this.

    Currently the rules say that commercial selling is fine at the admin's discretion (or words to that effect).

    I know that a small number people have complained (often in the wrong place) about one particular seller's sales. Firstly I want to ask, if that seller has been given permission to sell stuff here, what are the reasons people are upset about it? Please don't get personal - this is not a witch hunt. Also it's worth nothing that the number of happy customers of that seller far outnumber the complaints.

    Secondly, if there is a real issue - and it needs to be shown that there is - how do we fix it? The way I see it we have two options, one is to ban commercial selling altogether, which is easy, but then people here will potentially miss out on some bloody good deals. The other is to allow commercial selling to specific users so long as they meet certain criteria. I have already made my own list of about 4 criteria that would need to be met, but I'd be interested to hear others thoughts on that too

    Nb - no guarantees at all that this thread will change anything, but if there's definitely a problem we need to understand what it is before it can be fixed.
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  2. #2
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    One question.

    Did OZgolf get a commission on sales?

    Either way it gave the perception of a commercial agreement. One thing this site has always promoted was no ads. I guess that can be crossed off the list.

    Open and transparent communication. It usually works best.
    Last edited by sms316; 26th July 2014 at 05:34 PM.

  3. #3
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    If someone wants to sell gear to ozgolfers for about 30% of retail prices if be disappointed if ozgolf didn't allow it.

  4. #4
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    To the best of my knowledge no, OzGolf itself gets nothing. The reason commercial selling is allowed is that it benefits the members - mostly with discounted pricing (eg Birdieball vouchers etc).

    We have discussed the idea of allowing commercial selling for a commercial payment. Most of the mods seem to be against that idea - mainly because we want to be impartial.

    I agree with you about open and transparent communication - that's why I'm doing this. But when a decision is made, if people disagree with it they need to move on instead of continually griping about it. We will never please 100% of the people 100% of the time.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puttpete View Post
    If someone wants to sell gear to ozgolfers for about 30% of retail prices if be disappointed if ozgolf didn't allow it.
    Exactly.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenM View Post
    To the best of my knowledge no, OzGolf itself gets nothing. The reason commercial selling is allowed is that it benefits the members - mostly with discounted pricing (eg Birdieball vouchers etc).We have discussed the idea of allowing commercial selling for a commercial payment. Most of the mods seem to be against that idea - mainly because we want to be impartial.I agree with you about open and transparent communication - that's why I'm doing this. But when a decision is made, if people disagree with it they need to move on instead of continually griping about it. We will never please 100% of the people 100% of the time.
    Ben - fair enough. I did find it somewhat amusing that the rules were stealthfully changed to accommodate old mate (again poor communication).
    Forum needs more banter.

  7. #7
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    I'm not against it, but a few $$$$ donated back to the site would be a fair thing to do.
    I've done it myself over the years.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sms316 View Post
    Ben - fair enough. I did find it somewhat amusing that the rules were stealthfully changed to accommodate old mate (again poor communication).
    If that's the case - that's not the way I would have done it - agreed it should've been better.

    But moving forward from that - what is the issue with the rules/situation as they are now?
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  9. #9
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    The rules were never changed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenM View Post
    If that's the case - that's not the way I would have done it - agreed it should've been better.But moving forward from that - what is the issue with the rules/situation as they are now?
    Just be open and transparent.
    Forum needs more banter.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyP View Post
    The rules were never changed.
    Well there you go. I apologise. I always thought commercial listings were no go.
    Forum needs more banter.

  12. #12
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    Default Pro Shop - Commercial Sales

    No, they have always been considered on a "benefit to OZGolfers" basis.

    Squizzy tried posting here once, but offered nothing more than standard prices, and as a result it wasn't allowed.

  13. #13
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    Who is the person selling commercially?(please pm if you don't want to name them)

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    I do think it has got larger than the listing started, but is it commercial? Or is the problem, the quantity of product?
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    My beef was/is the sheer quantity. It started as supposedly his own clothes, and now resembles a full catalogue. Seller has own website as well, and good luck to him. I trust there's a bit of support that is given when charity requests are made.

    But I'll leave it there as I can sense a bit of baiting...

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by meh View Post
    Who is the person selling commercially?(please pm if you don't want to name them)
    Beats me.I just has a look through the proshop and I can't see it
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagerlover View Post
    My beef was/is the sheer quantity. It started as supposedly his own clothes, and now resembles a full catalogue. Seller has own website as well, and good luck to him. I trust there's a bit of support that is given when charity requests are made.

    But I'll leave it there as I can sense a bit of baiting...

    Congrats on your new role Ben.
    Yep - that's a fair concern.

    It occurred to me that quantity is an issue of it drowns out users who are selling their old gear and not making anything. One potential option is put sales of stuff like that in it's own separate section of the pro shop or tag them differently. Just throwing it out there to see what people think (and it hasn't been discussed amongst the mods yet so they might hate the idea too).
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenM View Post
    Yep - that's a fair concern.

    It occurred to me that quantity is an issue of it drowns out users who are selling their old gear and not making anything.
    Isn't it only like one post tho?
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNuclearOne View Post
    Isn't it only like one post tho?
    Right now, pretty much. I guess I'm thinking ahead, mostly.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenM View Post
    Right now, pretty much. I guess I'm thinking ahead, mostly.
    Going on present form you probably don't have to, could be wrong.

    Personally i can't see the problem when many seem to be quite content and taking advantage of the gear. Not like he's spammed the pro shop and ever will.

    Simple rule IF needed - no more than 2 or 3 active threads for him at any one time. Pro shop threads don't turn over anywhere near the quantity they did 12 months ago anyway.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by meh View Post
    Who is the person selling commercially?(please pm if you don't want to name them)
    Lovegolf2012. And yes, did start as spare clothes. Heaps have now bought from him and always with good reactions from what I can see.

    I personally have no issue if it doesn't end up like a squizzy who tried to simply offload standard pricing. His pricing fluctuates based on so called sales as well, whereas the Sligo man prices things to benefit us (it seems).

  22. #22
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    The main reason is the number of members that are happily buying his gear at the prices listed. There would appear to be significant benefit th those members that are buying.





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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteyD View Post
    The main reason is the number of members that are happily buying his gear at the prices listed. There would appear to be significant benefit th those members that are buying.
    This.

    I couldn't find a valid reason for the questioning/whinging. It seemed to be a few looking for an excuse to find a wrong they could crusade, quite frankly. Ray has being selling at great prices here for yonks, and provides great service, follow up etc as well in my experience.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daves View Post
    This.

    I couldn't find a valid reason for the questioning/whinging. It seemed to be a few looking for an excuse to find a wrong they could crusade, quite frankly. Ray has being selling at great prices here for yonks, and provides great service, follow up etc as well in my experience.
    I have bought plenty off Ray over the years and always happily, but the operation had seemed to step up a gear. If you are expecting new posters to post 150 times before selling, maybe you could expect existing sellers to post in threads other than their for sale threads.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wbennett View Post
    I have bought plenty off Ray over the years and always happily, but the operation had seemed to step up a gear. If you are expecting new posters to post 150 times before selling, maybe you could expect existing sellers to post in threads other than their for sale threads.
    I actually think that is the expectation already but it isn't really formalised, and it's difficult to enforce without manual review.

    Definitely agree that we should formalise it and make it clear to sellers (it is one of the criteria I mentioned earlier). But if the community are getting significant benefit from discounted prices etc it might be a bit unfair (on purchasers as well as sellers) to stop sellers just because they aren't posting much outside of their sales.
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